Why is Talking About Abortion Taboo in the Church?

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.759 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me, 2 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:10.310 Lord, I am your. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. 3 00:00:10.550 --> 00:00:13.669 This episode we're going to talk about why it's taboo to talk about abortion 4 00:00:13.789 --> 00:00:17.390 in the church and some of the reasons that pastors give to not talk about 5 00:00:17.390 --> 00:00:28.260 it to their congregations. Stick with us. I felt show passish touch your 6 00:00:30.660 --> 00:00:35.179 welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. We're going to talk about abortion, 7 00:00:35.619 --> 00:00:39.890 like we can do. PODCAST is about that, pro life issues in 8 00:00:39.929 --> 00:00:42.810 light of the Gospel. But one of the things we're going to talk about, 9 00:00:43.009 --> 00:00:47.009 and I think hopefully this will be helpful for some pastors and for people 10 00:00:47.090 --> 00:00:51.119 in congregations where your pastor maybe is not addressing the issue of abortion, or 11 00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:53.679 maybe he's not addressing the issue of abortion as much as he ought to, 12 00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:59.240 and we're going to talk about why the issue of abortion is taboo in the 13 00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:04.310 church, for some churches and even in Christian circles, and why pastors shy 14 00:01:04.349 --> 00:01:08.349 away from talking about the issue of abortion. You've got an article there that 15 00:01:08.510 --> 00:01:11.590 you that you got five reasons. Why? What is it? Was it 16 00:01:11.670 --> 00:01:14.750 entire right? Well, I have a couple of articles. This one is 17 00:01:14.870 --> 00:01:19.420 called the most common reasons pastors give for not preaching about abortion. That's the 18 00:01:19.579 --> 00:01:21.819 title in it. It was written by a pastor and I'm sorry, I 19 00:01:21.900 --> 00:01:25.540 don't have its name. We can find it and post that with with our 20 00:01:26.299 --> 00:01:32.260 with our podcast. Okay, but at list like twenty reasons, common reasons 21 00:01:32.340 --> 00:01:37.090 why pastors don't talk about abortion, and and so maybe we could just go 22 00:01:37.250 --> 00:01:38.209 through them. Yeah, some of the B's. The other one you have 23 00:01:38.329 --> 00:01:41.969 from focus on the family. The one from focus on the family is the 24 00:01:42.170 --> 00:01:47.680 five fears that keep pastors from preaching about abortion. Okay, and then it's 25 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:49.000 like a lot of these. I was reading through those, both of those 26 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:53.959 articles. They had a lot of similarities. Right, right, why don't 27 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:56.680 we start with that first, with the focus on the family, one of 28 00:01:56.719 --> 00:02:00.400 the five fears, okay, that keep pastors and you know, of course 29 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:04.790 we want to look at these things in light of the Scripture and lighted with 30 00:02:04.829 --> 00:02:08.310 the Bible says and the but the biblical command right to speak for those that 31 00:02:08.389 --> 00:02:13.229 can speak for themselves and to love our neighbor as ourselves. And of course 32 00:02:13.310 --> 00:02:15.620 we're going to come from a perspective of when we think about prolife ministry, 33 00:02:15.620 --> 00:02:21.900 we're thinking sidewall counseling. But there's certainly a broad application. And you know, 34 00:02:22.020 --> 00:02:25.340 pastors, and I believe every every church that is a church, those 35 00:02:25.379 --> 00:02:29.180 who believe that word of God and those who believe Jesus is the way of 36 00:02:29.219 --> 00:02:32.009 salvation and the God has try you, and there's just sort of the fundamentals 37 00:02:34.289 --> 00:02:38.849 should be talking about the issue of abortion, for sure. And but fact 38 00:02:38.009 --> 00:02:42.569 is they're not. You know. Yeah, and so they're not an end. 39 00:02:42.650 --> 00:02:47.159 My experience in talking with pastors is that they may be willing to support 40 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:53.479 something like a pregnancy resource center, yeah, as a church, but less 41 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:58.789 willing to support art people out on the front lines in a sidewalk. Yeah, 42 00:02:58.870 --> 00:03:05.909 ministry. And my personal conviction is that churches should be out on the 43 00:03:05.990 --> 00:03:09.629 sidewalk and should be supporting what's happening out on the sidewalk as well. Yes, 44 00:03:09.750 --> 00:03:15.139 the pregnancy resource yeah, absolutely so. So, anyway, in the 45 00:03:15.180 --> 00:03:17.780 in the top five focus on the family. I presumed it some sort of 46 00:03:17.860 --> 00:03:23.379 research and found the the top five reasons given for why pastors are not talking 47 00:03:23.460 --> 00:03:29.009 about abortion. So the first one is, and I hear this all the 48 00:03:29.090 --> 00:03:35.530 time, my congregation will think I'm being political, congregational think I'm being political. 49 00:03:35.650 --> 00:03:38.889 Isis like, you know, one of the things I've said two folks 50 00:03:39.090 --> 00:03:43.280 when they come out on the sidewalk and they wonder where the church is and 51 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:47.360 why they're pastor isn't addressing the issue of abortion, is that the church has 52 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:53.879 taken the bait of the devil in some ways in that we've allowed abortion to 53 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:58.349 be crafted and to be put forth as a political issue, and the fact 54 00:03:58.430 --> 00:04:01.550 is it's not a political issue, it's a gospel issue. Now there's some 55 00:04:01.629 --> 00:04:04.830 politics involved and you know, people think about especially, you know, we're 56 00:04:04.870 --> 00:04:09.629 dealing with the black churches. You wonder why aren't the Black Churches out here? 57 00:04:09.669 --> 00:04:12.780 I say, I tell people, I said because this issue is viewed 58 00:04:12.819 --> 00:04:15.379 as a Democrat Republican issue. And you know it's face it. Most black 59 00:04:15.459 --> 00:04:19.699 churches, the majority of the people there are Democrats, you know, and 60 00:04:19.860 --> 00:04:25.490 they would actually more aligned with, you know, our beliefs as far as 61 00:04:25.529 --> 00:04:28.410 the Bible be in the word of God, and you know, homosexuality being 62 00:04:28.410 --> 00:04:32.209 seeing abortion being wrong. And yet they've they've allowed in the church at Laura's 63 00:04:32.290 --> 00:04:36.329 has allowed this issue to be deemed as a political issue and it's simply not 64 00:04:36.490 --> 00:04:40.319 a political issue. Yeah, you got to wonder about that, because at 65 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:46.160 the root of the pro life issue is the value, worth dignity of human 66 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:54.149 life and that that was established in the beginning by God. Yeah, when 67 00:04:54.350 --> 00:04:58.870 he says that we are created in his image. Yeah, and our value 68 00:04:58.990 --> 00:05:06.339 is derived from that. And all rights proceed from the right to life. 69 00:05:06.540 --> 00:05:10.980 You can't have any other right if you don't have the right to life. 70 00:05:11.620 --> 00:05:16.500 So why that is perceived as a political issue, you know? Well, 71 00:05:16.579 --> 00:05:23.370 there's a great division in our country. yeahlitically because of Rov Wade. Yeah, 72 00:05:23.449 --> 00:05:28.529 and the aftermath of Rope Wade. And Pastors, I think, are 73 00:05:28.649 --> 00:05:33.689 looking at at least what what this article seem to suggest was that they are 74 00:05:33.810 --> 00:05:41.319 looking only at the political outworking of of the abortion issue, but not at 75 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:46.800 the root of the abortion issue. To great detriment. They're not talking about 76 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:49.470 it. There is this warms the heart of God, for I agree pastors. 77 00:05:50.310 --> 00:05:56.350 I was a pastor one time for about almost ten years and I know 78 00:05:56.470 --> 00:06:00.110 the heart of a pastor. He wants to shepherd, he wants to protect 79 00:06:00.310 --> 00:06:04.620 those who got has put under his care, but part of protecting is addressing 80 00:06:05.220 --> 00:06:10.459 these issues that are destructive and you know, it can kind of I don't 81 00:06:10.459 --> 00:06:14.060 know, with that sensitivity of your heart, you can neglect to speak the 82 00:06:14.180 --> 00:06:19.610 truth and and to be you to confront evils because you don't want to drive 83 00:06:19.689 --> 00:06:24.370 people away. But the fact is we have to honor of the Lord first 84 00:06:24.449 --> 00:06:27.329 and we have to you know, if you know, using the analogy of 85 00:06:27.329 --> 00:06:30.129 a shepherd and she in a sheep, you know, if a sheep is 86 00:06:30.170 --> 00:06:34.800 as a has a splinter in its Hoo, for Paul, I don't where 87 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:40.680 it's been any they pause every maybe whatever. Either way, if they have 88 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:44.360 some kind of issue going on there, the shepherd needs to address it, 89 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:46.879 even though it's going to hurt. You know, bandaging up a wound, 90 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:49.670 putting a little bit of antiseptic on a wound one of your sheep is kind 91 00:06:49.670 --> 00:06:53.709 of hurt, could drive them away, right. It could run from you. 92 00:06:53.949 --> 00:06:56.230 Yeah, but you know it's the best thing and right. So we're 93 00:06:56.269 --> 00:06:58.829 thing you could do is ignore that. Yeah, and we know that with 94 00:06:59.029 --> 00:07:01.699 physical issues. Well, why don't we know that with emotional and spiritual is? 95 00:07:01.819 --> 00:07:05.500 Yes, the worst thing we can do is pretend the issue doesn't exist 96 00:07:05.620 --> 00:07:10.579 and never speak upon it. Yeah, and as far as this political thing 97 00:07:10.740 --> 00:07:15.050 is concerned, as pastors, we can't let the world dictate to us what 98 00:07:15.569 --> 00:07:19.290 is a an issue that we don't talk about and what's an issue that we 99 00:07:19.329 --> 00:07:23.569 do talk about. This whole idea, and I think we'll maybe talk about 100 00:07:23.569 --> 00:07:27.449 that later on a little bit, the separation between politics and religion. You 101 00:07:27.490 --> 00:07:30.240 know, if we're believers in Jesus, it's not that we're you know, 102 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:34.680 if our if the chief defining mark of my life is that I'm a Republican, 103 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:39.199 that's a problem. It is. I'm a believer in Jesus, right, 104 00:07:39.319 --> 00:07:42.680 but I don't just shy away from things that Republicans say and Republicans do 105 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:45.949 just so the world doesn't view me as a Republican first. No, I 106 00:07:46.110 --> 00:07:48.509 just speak the truth and if it happens a line up with the Republicans, 107 00:07:48.550 --> 00:07:53.310 say, well, what the Democrats say or libertarian say that it's the truth, 108 00:07:53.470 --> 00:07:58.110 it's according to God's word. So, you know, as far as 109 00:07:58.149 --> 00:08:01.019 we're concerned, like being out on the sidewalk at the abortion clinic, it's 110 00:08:01.060 --> 00:08:05.899 not like we have a trump flag that were waving out there or we have, 111 00:08:05.139 --> 00:08:07.860 you know, people come and sign up, you know, save your 112 00:08:07.899 --> 00:08:13.290 baby and come up and sign up to vote Republican. It's like the furthest 113 00:08:13.290 --> 00:08:16.850 thing from what our motivation is. It's about a love for God. And 114 00:08:18.290 --> 00:08:22.769 I mean, listen, are we deceived enough to think the Republican Party is 115 00:08:22.810 --> 00:08:26.399 the savior of the world? In no way. Republican Party is just as 116 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:31.519 culbable, maybe even more, in this abortion Holocaust. Then then the Democrat 117 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:35.879 Party is in some ways, you know. Yeah, and so, yeah, 118 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:37.960 this is just not a political thing. In pastors, you can't let 119 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:43.389 this be from the world telling you how to view this issue. You can't 120 00:08:43.429 --> 00:08:46.629 let them define this issue for you. This is a gospel issue. We're 121 00:08:46.710 --> 00:08:52.590 talking about the murder if innocent children in our country and made in the image 122 00:08:52.750 --> 00:08:58.620 of a holy God. And and Satan knows he he lost when Jesus died 123 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:03.700 on the Cross and rose from the dead. So he couldn't defeat Jesus, 124 00:09:05.419 --> 00:09:11.330 but he attacks what he is able to attack, which are the image bearers, 125 00:09:11.370 --> 00:09:15.529 yeah, of God. And and that is, I think again, 126 00:09:15.929 --> 00:09:22.090 the root of abortion. Destroy the idea that society should be protecting those little 127 00:09:24.129 --> 00:09:28.720 vulnerable image bearers of God, the unborn child. Yeah, so all right. 128 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:31.240 Should we go onto the second one? Yeah, second, top one 129 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:37.200 is I do not want to be pegged as a crazy right wing conservative. 130 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:41.070 Yeah, so that sort of relates to the first one. Does again, 131 00:09:41.110 --> 00:09:48.389 it's the political that that abortion is a political issue as opposed to a moral 132 00:09:48.429 --> 00:09:52.460 or Gospel yes, you but, and you know, the thing is, 133 00:09:52.620 --> 00:09:58.179 the Bible says the fear of Man Brings a snare. When our life in 134 00:09:58.299 --> 00:10:01.860 the the motivation behind the things that we do, in the directions that we 135 00:10:01.980 --> 00:10:05.820 go in, whether it be as pastors and directing our church to go in 136 00:10:05.940 --> 00:10:11.490 this direction of that direction or whatever, the call of God on our lives, 137 00:10:11.009 --> 00:10:13.009 we can and always have in the back of our mind. Well, 138 00:10:13.049 --> 00:10:16.250 what's the world going to think? You know, certainly the Bible says let 139 00:10:16.289 --> 00:10:20.570 your light so shine before men. We should be a light and we want 140 00:10:20.610 --> 00:10:24.240 to make sure that we're, as best we can, viewed as blameless and 141 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:28.000 and and the we're not, you know, caught up in scandal and all 142 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:31.559 that sort of thing. But when we're doing what God has called us to 143 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:35.830 do, the world is going to think that it's crazy. They're going to 144 00:10:35.870 --> 00:10:39.389 peggy with whatever whatever term they can listen. You can't please the world. 145 00:10:39.509 --> 00:10:43.470 You can't please people who don't know God with the things of God. They're 146 00:10:43.509 --> 00:10:48.029 just not going to understand why you're doing why are you protecting these zygoats? 147 00:10:48.149 --> 00:10:52.220 Why do you why do you stand so strongly against the the you know, 148 00:10:52.659 --> 00:10:58.059 destruction of Zygoats and embryos whatever. They just don't understand, because they don't 149 00:10:58.059 --> 00:11:01.620 understand the value people that are lost. They don't understand the value of human 150 00:11:01.700 --> 00:11:05.129 life. Because when it says here, I don't want to be pegged as 151 00:11:05.169 --> 00:11:09.570 a crazy white ring white right right wing, that's a little tongue twisted. 152 00:11:11.169 --> 00:11:15.529 Right conservative. By whom? Right? So the implication is by the world 153 00:11:15.769 --> 00:11:18.080 right, by those who are from the outside looking in. And all you 154 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:20.399 have to do is just say, well, I'm not that, yeah, 155 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:24.000 you know, and show that you're not that through your actions. Because here's 156 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:30.240 the thing. If if you say that abortion is wrong and the world wonders, 157 00:11:30.279 --> 00:11:31.559 okay, well, why you think it's wrong? What's because it destroys 158 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:35.830 innocent life, and then you just leave it there and you don't do anything 159 00:11:35.870 --> 00:11:39.830 about it and you don't address the issue from the pulpit, then the world 160 00:11:39.870 --> 00:11:43.629 thinks you're hypocrite. All, you think abortion is wrong, but you never 161 00:11:43.750 --> 00:11:46.789 talked about it, you don't do anything about it. So you can't please 162 00:11:46.870 --> 00:11:48.259 them. That way and you can't please them this way. All you talk 163 00:11:48.299 --> 00:11:50.580 about is abortion. All. If you think abortion is wrong, why do 164 00:11:50.620 --> 00:11:54.379 you never talk about so you know, may as well try to please God. 165 00:11:54.460 --> 00:11:56.419 Can't please everybody, because we'll try to please the Lord. And also 166 00:11:58.620 --> 00:12:05.250 the the way the media presents sidewalk counselors. Is what I'm thinking. But 167 00:12:05.490 --> 00:12:09.889 but many pro life people, but yeah, especially sidewalk counselors, people out 168 00:12:09.929 --> 00:12:16.960 on the sidewalk actively working to promote life and and discourage abortion, their caricatured 169 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:22.320 in in movies, even in some pro life weird kidctured. We are. 170 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:30.950 We are, and and that is sometimes the only view that a pastor or 171 00:12:31.029 --> 00:12:37.990 a congregation have because they've never been out to the sidewalk and seeing an effective 172 00:12:37.149 --> 00:12:43.379 sidewalk ministry like ours. Yeah, in action, was plugging in in action, 173 00:12:43.580 --> 00:12:48.460 and so they they don't know that. The things that they see of 174 00:12:48.700 --> 00:12:52.460 angry people, you know, waving flags. Yeah, yeah, I think 175 00:12:52.539 --> 00:12:54.419 of it is mentioned the because we talked about before this podcast, in the 176 00:12:54.460 --> 00:12:58.769 unplanned movie, the Abby Johnson Movie, yeah, which in a lot of 177 00:12:58.850 --> 00:13:01.809 respects was there was a lot I loved about that. Yeah, but then 178 00:13:01.850 --> 00:13:05.490 they had the this this sort of contrast, I guess you had that really 179 00:13:05.529 --> 00:13:09.529 Nice, sweet sidewalk counselor didn't say anything, though. Yes, he didn't 180 00:13:09.529 --> 00:13:11.250 say anything, just were there. They just we are praying. And you 181 00:13:11.330 --> 00:13:16.240 had the people, you know, the radical right wing right, come over 182 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:20.000 here and you guy has a huge Bible. You know, of course it's 183 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:22.200 a big BOT KJV Bible. He's yelling at the woman, come over here, 184 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:24.960 don't murder your baby, talking. You know, it's like scoot a 185 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:28.909 man and yeah, angry and pumping his fist, and then in the guy 186 00:13:28.149 --> 00:13:31.909 course dress in the grim reaper outfit. You see that and in the crowd. 187 00:13:31.950 --> 00:13:35.509 I've ever seen do that in on our sidewalk is people on the other 188 00:13:35.549 --> 00:13:39.389 side. We've never done that. What I have you me the pro bort 189 00:13:39.470 --> 00:13:41.980 people. Yeah, Oh, yeah, the pro pro abortion people. I 190 00:13:41.059 --> 00:13:46.860 mean they're just a eight weeks ago. They're just like dinosaurs, weird. 191 00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:50.659 Yeah, yeah, so there there's this caricature and there's this and I can 192 00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:54.970 understand it from a pastor's perspective. I don't want to be associated with that 193 00:13:56.450 --> 00:14:01.250 right. The fact is that certainly, I would say, there are some 194 00:14:01.490 --> 00:14:03.850 folks that act like that and there's there's some of that there are, but 195 00:14:05.009 --> 00:14:07.690 there's also really rotten missionaries that do some rotten things. To do. We 196 00:14:07.730 --> 00:14:09.720 say, well, I don't want to go in the mission field and I 197 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.679 don't want to be talking about missions because I don't want to be pegged as 198 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:16.639 one of those kind of missionaries or whatever. You know, you know, 199 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:20.360 you got your your TV of angelist preachers. That all they talked about his 200 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:26.110 money and getting more here, raising much touch. The television said there's fanatics, 201 00:14:26.190 --> 00:14:31.830 there's crazy, eccentric crazies. Yeah, in any movement, especially any 202 00:14:31.909 --> 00:14:35.950 movement where there's great passion. Yeah, but that should not be what defines 203 00:14:37.389 --> 00:14:41.299 the movement. And if you don't know, if you've never seen a sidewalk 204 00:14:41.379 --> 00:14:46.860 ministry and action, or you've never spoken with pastors maybe who are passionate about 205 00:14:46.860 --> 00:14:50.059 speaking about abortion, and you don't know how they approach it, well, 206 00:14:50.340 --> 00:14:56.009 maybe it would be who've pastors and others to find out what. Yeah, 207 00:14:56.129 --> 00:15:01.210 responsible and normal people, Yeah, love the Lord and love that. Or, 208 00:15:01.570 --> 00:15:03.090 you know, go and start a ministry, like, if you don't 209 00:15:03.090 --> 00:15:09.320 like the way that they're doing it, then then seek the Lord and start 210 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.759 a ministry out of your own congregation. That would do it. What you 211 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:13.840 perceived to be the right way. Right, you know, when guest said 212 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:16.960 very wise man, I don't know is that you were know, wasn't me 213 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:20.590 who said something to the effect of all, I like the way that I'm 214 00:15:20.669 --> 00:15:24.029 doing it better than the way that you're not doing it. So you might 215 00:15:24.110 --> 00:15:26.909 be critical of what I'm doing, okay, but at least I'm doing something, 216 00:15:28.149 --> 00:15:30.950 you know, at least I'm out there and you know, we could 217 00:15:30.950 --> 00:15:33.149 be critical of other people doing things like wow, I would not do it 218 00:15:33.269 --> 00:15:37.779 that way. Okay, then come and show me how you would do it, 219 00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:41.419 you know, show me in certainly as a ministry and as the director 220 00:15:41.539 --> 00:15:46.940 this Ministry, I'm always open to pastures. Given me feedback on right. 221 00:15:46.019 --> 00:15:48.899 Okay, what could we do better? You know, long as it's long 222 00:15:48.940 --> 00:15:50.970 as you can give me scripture. The call. Yeah, long as you 223 00:15:52.009 --> 00:15:54.769 give me scription. If you just give me some opinion of man and some 224 00:15:54.009 --> 00:15:58.129 you know, business model or something like that, I could really care less. 225 00:15:58.450 --> 00:16:00.250 But if you give me scripture and show me in the scripture where something 226 00:16:00.370 --> 00:16:04.440 I'm doing is is off base and it doesn't honor the Lord Man, I'm 227 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:07.480 I'll be the first to thank you and then correct that thing. Yeah, 228 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:11.440 but sometimes you know as pastors, if we don't, you know, if 229 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:15.519 we don't want to be associated with a caricature of something, first of all, 230 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:18.549 more than likely that caricature is incorrect, especially if you're being fed that 231 00:16:18.669 --> 00:16:22.549 from the world. Right, right? Can you trust the world to give 232 00:16:22.590 --> 00:16:26.990 a good and accurate representation of the people of God? No, no, 233 00:16:26.190 --> 00:16:30.470 not really. So don't. Don't believe that. But even if those caricatures 234 00:16:30.509 --> 00:16:34.500 are true, then then be an example of what is right, what is 235 00:16:34.580 --> 00:16:37.700 wholesome, what honors the Lord in that realm of ministry. Uh Huh. 236 00:16:38.059 --> 00:16:41.220 Well, I'll tell you. What attracted me so much to our ministry, 237 00:16:41.299 --> 00:16:47.889 to cities for life, was that I loved the pleading aspect of it, 238 00:16:47.970 --> 00:16:52.610 which I felt followed the heart of God. It struck me as how Jesus 239 00:16:52.649 --> 00:16:56.169 would approach, yeah, this sort of ministry, were he to do this 240 00:16:56.330 --> 00:17:03.639 sort of ministry I did. I didn't hear a tone of condemnation, but 241 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:08.480 of a true desire to help guide people in a biblical way, back to 242 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:15.950 God, yeah, and to the love of their child. So there are 243 00:17:15.150 --> 00:17:22.230 ministries. I know firsthand. There are ministries that that are very biblically Gospel, 244 00:17:22.349 --> 00:17:30.099 if Gospel focused and and I would I would really encourage pastors to go 245 00:17:30.140 --> 00:17:36.140 out and find those in common and seek out those different ministries and and support 246 00:17:36.259 --> 00:17:40.819 them, because we do need support. Yeah, okay, here's one. 247 00:17:41.940 --> 00:17:47.650 I feel inadequate to address the issue of abortion. Yeah, it's probably true. 248 00:17:48.049 --> 00:17:51.410 You should. They are. Yeah, I'man inadequate. Well, the 249 00:17:51.490 --> 00:17:53.849 Apostle Paul, I believe this, in the first couple of chapters of First 250 00:17:53.930 --> 00:17:57.450 Corinthians, where he's talking about he says, I'm going to be able to 251 00:17:57.450 --> 00:18:02.920 quote it exactly, but he says talking about the proclamation of the Gospel and 252 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:06.240 those who are believers, he says to some we are the fragrance of death 253 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:08.319 leading to death and some we are the fragrance of life leading to life. 254 00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:12.750 And so he's talking about how some people except the Gospel and receive us as 255 00:18:12.789 --> 00:18:17.670 ministers of the Gospel. Well, and some people reject the Gospel and reject 256 00:18:17.710 --> 00:18:21.309 US as ministers. And then he says who is sufficient for these things? 257 00:18:21.789 --> 00:18:26.029 So Paul even recognizes the Great Apostle Paul, who all of us want to 258 00:18:26.029 --> 00:18:29.420 be like when we grow up. If anyone is sufficient, he should be 259 00:18:29.420 --> 00:18:33.980 suicacious. Who is sufficient for these things? Recognizing that our sufficiency is not 260 00:18:33.140 --> 00:18:37.900 in and of ourselves and based on our own wisdom, but our sufficiency comes 261 00:18:37.940 --> 00:18:41.769 from Christ. So when we this is a mountainous issue to address, there's 262 00:18:41.809 --> 00:18:45.930 no doubt about it, because the issue of abortion affects individuals, it kills 263 00:18:45.970 --> 00:18:49.930 individual lies, it affects individual women and men, but are also is a 264 00:18:51.049 --> 00:18:55.450 national sin or the innocent blood of these children is as a nation, we're 265 00:18:55.450 --> 00:19:00.079 guilty for a massive and that that one. And for people have yet an 266 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.759 abortion, is what those that are want. And for women, yeah, 267 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:06.720 have had A and who? I would say this is the number one moral 268 00:19:06.759 --> 00:19:11.670 issue of our day. So it's a mountainous issue to address, but we 269 00:19:11.750 --> 00:19:15.589 shouldn't let the the you know, God moves mountains, right. Yeah, 270 00:19:15.750 --> 00:19:18.509 we shouldn't let the the fact that this is a big issue and a mountainous 271 00:19:18.509 --> 00:19:22.589 issue make a shot back from addressing the issue. What we need to do 272 00:19:22.869 --> 00:19:26.980 is, pastors is pressed into God and ask God, how do I address 273 00:19:26.980 --> 00:19:30.420 this issue? Because no one, at least I'm not pretending that it's an 274 00:19:30.420 --> 00:19:37.220 easy issue to address and that there's somehow a biblical percentage of how often you're 275 00:19:37.220 --> 00:19:41.170 to talk about abortion and how often you're not. I don't know what that 276 00:19:41.369 --> 00:19:45.569 is, but I do know that it's pastors, we're to address the issues 277 00:19:45.650 --> 00:19:48.210 that are that are moral issues in our society and in our day. That's 278 00:19:48.289 --> 00:19:52.849 that's a mandate. We have to do that. Yeah, and we have 279 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:56.279 to address those issues forth rightly, but also with grace, and so seeking 280 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:00.839 the Lord and trying to figure out, okay, when would God have me 281 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:03.079 to address this issue and how how deep do I get into this issue? 282 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.509 Do you do a series about the sanctity of human life? Do you do 283 00:20:07.630 --> 00:20:11.190 you talk about just do a series of just about abortion, and I think 284 00:20:11.230 --> 00:20:15.630 that would be very fitting. So, yeah, we're not adequate. I'm 285 00:20:15.630 --> 00:20:18.869 not adequate. I'm not adequate to be out on the sidewalk at the abortion 286 00:20:18.950 --> 00:20:22.180 clinic right if I was adequate and of myself, that would probably be an 287 00:20:22.180 --> 00:20:25.740 issue. It would be who needs to have the right, and we do. 288 00:20:25.940 --> 00:20:29.099 We need, desperately need him. I got this figured out. Less 289 00:20:29.140 --> 00:20:32.180 to help with that. Of the counterpoint to this that, well, it's 290 00:20:32.259 --> 00:20:37.250 not in opposition to what you're saying, but just complimenting what you're saying. 291 00:20:37.490 --> 00:20:41.769 Is Well, if you're inadequate in an area, you know in the say, 292 00:20:41.849 --> 00:20:47.890 the facts that you need to know to to be able to address this 293 00:20:48.049 --> 00:20:52.240 issue. Well, there's so many resources out there, there is so much. 294 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:57.599 There is a wealth of information available, and so educate yourself. That's 295 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:03.119 what I did when I knew nothing, really when I when I came six 296 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:07.470 years ago to the sidewalk and when I didn't know something, I'd Google it 297 00:21:07.589 --> 00:21:10.109 or I got you know, there was a way to find the information. 298 00:21:10.630 --> 00:21:14.589 But the second thing is, and I think it's so important, is that 299 00:21:15.029 --> 00:21:21.099 there are ministries devoted to this. Yeah, devoted to pro life issues, 300 00:21:21.259 --> 00:21:26.859 devoted to sidewalk advocacy. The pastor doesn't need all the answers, but it 301 00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:30.339 sure would be good, in my opinion, for the churches to be supporting 302 00:21:30.500 --> 00:21:36.529 those ministries because we we don't have all the answers, but we do have 303 00:21:36.690 --> 00:21:42.690 a wealth of experience in dealing with these issues and and so. But you 304 00:21:42.769 --> 00:21:47.089 know, with the support of the church it they can be so much more 305 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:49.839 effectively. Yeah, and you know, I think of you locally. I'm 306 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:55.200 certainly willing and have gone to churches and spoken of the issue of abortion, 307 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:57.279 spoke on it, you know, not just from the sidewalk counseling perspective. 308 00:21:57.319 --> 00:22:02.029 It just the General Perspective Love Life, our partner ministry. They do that 309 00:22:02.150 --> 00:22:06.829 on a regular basis. They go and share the tragic truth of abortion the 310 00:22:07.390 --> 00:22:12.829 congregations in our city. Even pregnancy centers go and plenty of pregnancy to center 311 00:22:12.910 --> 00:22:17.700 directors, Tara, who we had on the podcast some months ago with Monroe. 312 00:22:17.859 --> 00:22:19.660 Hell, yeah, with help, pregnancy center has gone and spoken at 313 00:22:19.660 --> 00:22:23.819 churches and youth groups and whatever. You know. And so if pastors are 314 00:22:23.859 --> 00:22:26.220 looking and saying, well, you know, I'm in adequate to address this 315 00:22:26.339 --> 00:22:30.289 issue, and again, yes and Amen, yes you are, but God 316 00:22:30.329 --> 00:22:33.529 can give you the grace to do it. But maybe that's a charge or 317 00:22:33.650 --> 00:22:37.970 that's a that's a time where you say, Hey, I'll get somebody else 318 00:22:37.970 --> 00:22:40.970 to address this issue. I'll talk to a pregnancy center, I'll talk to 319 00:22:41.450 --> 00:22:44.880 another ministry that can come and write and do a presentation or, you know, 320 00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:48.680 speak for fifteen, twenty minutes or whatever, however you do that. 321 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:52.119 There's other people that can address this issue. Yeah, exactly. So. 322 00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:56.799 So we'll move on to then. I believe this is number four. Okay, 323 00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:00.990 and this is a big one. I am afraid I will alienate and 324 00:23:02.109 --> 00:23:06.549 drive away women who have had abortion. Yeah. Well, you know the 325 00:23:06.630 --> 00:23:11.230 statistic. I think you gave it earlier. One in for women have had 326 00:23:11.269 --> 00:23:15.940 an abortion, and that translates also into the church. Yeah, so likely 327 00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:22.259 in the congregation that you pastors are addressing on a weekly basis, there's several 328 00:23:22.299 --> 00:23:26.460 women, at least a couple of women, that have had abortion in their 329 00:23:26.539 --> 00:23:30.329 past. Yeah, and some have been, you know, forthright with it 330 00:23:30.490 --> 00:23:34.849 and it's part of their testimony and they share that testimony. Some haven't shared 331 00:23:34.890 --> 00:23:38.329 it with anybody. They're suffering in silence. And I had read when I 332 00:23:38.450 --> 00:23:44.759 was researching for this podcast, that seventy percent of the women who go for 333 00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:49.759 an abortion identify asked Christians. Yeah, so they're there. There's yeah, 334 00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:52.240 we see it through, see it as we stand on the sidewalk. We 335 00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:56.910 see the cars drive in with the church stickers. Yeah, all the time. 336 00:23:56.069 --> 00:24:00.430 Yeah, and that's maybe a podcast for another day, but that reality 337 00:24:00.549 --> 00:24:03.829 is that, I would say, the vast majority of those don't really know 338 00:24:04.029 --> 00:24:08.829 the Lord and are not really part of the church anyway. Yeah, however, 339 00:24:10.220 --> 00:24:14.460 they are in congregations and that is a valid concern, and even from 340 00:24:14.500 --> 00:24:18.740 those who you know who've been in the congregation for years and have an abortion 341 00:24:18.140 --> 00:24:22.819 in their past and haven't shared that. You have to be sensitive to those 342 00:24:22.900 --> 00:24:27.809 issues. You need to be considerate as a shepherd of the sheep, you 343 00:24:27.930 --> 00:24:32.650 know, as the analogy goes from the scripture. But, as I said 344 00:24:32.730 --> 00:24:36.289 earlier, you know as a shepherd there's wounds that we have to tend to 345 00:24:36.490 --> 00:24:38.960 and they're gonna hurt. It might drive the sheep a little bit away and 346 00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:44.599 you gotta Trust God to bring them near. You know, as a doctor, 347 00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:47.759 in the analogy of a doctor, you know, doctor might say something 348 00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:49.599 to the effect of, you know, cancer is a big issue. It's 349 00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:53.150 probably one of the biggest issues we face. And as a doctor, if 350 00:24:53.230 --> 00:24:56.869 I talk about cancer and I've got a patient that has cancer potentially, you 351 00:24:56.950 --> 00:25:00.430 know I could talk about the risks of cancer. If you do this and 352 00:25:00.549 --> 00:25:03.509 do that, you know I might drive people away and I'm telling make him 353 00:25:03.549 --> 00:25:07.339 feel bad. Plenty of doctors have addressed and not to address with their patients 354 00:25:07.619 --> 00:25:12.299 smoking in the risks that smoking causes as far as cancer, lung cancer is 355 00:25:12.420 --> 00:25:17.819 concerned. has that ever driven a patient away from a doctor? I guarantee 356 00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:19.140 you it has. There have been patients that have said I'm not going to 357 00:25:19.220 --> 00:25:22.569 that doctor anymore. He talks too much about how could get lung cancer or 358 00:25:22.609 --> 00:25:26.849 obesity. I'm not going to that doctor anymore. He talks too much about 359 00:25:26.849 --> 00:25:29.849 how much I'm eating and I need to watch my way because I could get 360 00:25:29.890 --> 00:25:32.410 diabetes and all these other things. I don't want to go to that guy 361 00:25:32.410 --> 00:25:36.039 anymore because he makes me feel bad. All right, but that's what he's 362 00:25:36.039 --> 00:25:40.079 supposed to do. He's supposed to address is if he really cares about his 363 00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:44.279 patient, he's going to talk about smoking and the risks they're involved in smoke. 364 00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:48.599 He's going to talk about obesity and the risk that are involved in eating 365 00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:52.630 too much and obesity and not working out. All that because he's a good 366 00:25:52.630 --> 00:25:56.269 doctor. In the same way a pastor, we have to address these issues. 367 00:25:56.069 --> 00:26:00.230 We have to deal with issue of abortion because it's worse than cancer. 368 00:26:00.950 --> 00:26:07.779 It spreads and it devastates families, it leaves women under oppression and depression and 369 00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:11.259 we have to address the issue, just like a doctor has to address the 370 00:26:11.339 --> 00:26:17.299 issue of cancer before he can talk start talking about surgery and start talking about 371 00:26:17.339 --> 00:26:19.289 remedy to this issue of cancer. You know, you deal with that with 372 00:26:19.410 --> 00:26:22.650 breast cancer. Yeah, some years back in your doctor had to give you 373 00:26:22.730 --> 00:26:26.769 the whole, the cold hard truth about this thing. Yeah, so, 374 00:26:26.849 --> 00:26:29.369 yeah, I would be willing to receive the the remedy. Yeah, and 375 00:26:29.690 --> 00:26:33.240 I mean none of their motive was make us feel bad. Yeah, the 376 00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:41.799 motive is is to to heal and to maybe prevent from getting a disease, 377 00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:45.880 if you're going with the analogy of the doctor. But in the in terms 378 00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:52.509 of abortion, congregation is filled of potential abortion minded women. Yeah, and 379 00:26:52.670 --> 00:26:56.150 if no one is speaking about that, the word of God is quite clear 380 00:26:56.829 --> 00:27:03.140 that the shedding of innocent blood is an abomination before God and that the unborn 381 00:27:03.140 --> 00:27:07.819 child is made in the image of God and has intrinsic value based on that. 382 00:27:10.299 --> 00:27:15.210 If no one is sharing that, then that women go thinking, well, 383 00:27:15.250 --> 00:27:18.809 my church is okay with them. They've never said anything against it. 384 00:27:19.210 --> 00:27:25.650 Yeah, so that's one of the dangers of silence. But a second danger 385 00:27:25.970 --> 00:27:33.359 of silence is if the pastor's not talking about abortion, then the post abortive 386 00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:41.240 woman who is largely feeling shame and is in this cocoon. Well, it's 387 00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:48.109 not a cocoon, it's really a prison of silence. She's afraid to share. 388 00:27:48.109 --> 00:27:52.750 Yeah, she has had an abortion and the wounds run very deep and 389 00:27:53.269 --> 00:27:57.900 a pastor silence only contributes, yeah, to that feeling that this is a 390 00:27:59.059 --> 00:28:03.339 taboo. The SABA passion never talks about it. Therefore I should never talk 391 00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:07.420 about it. And I and I'm justified in feeling all of this shame and 392 00:28:07.579 --> 00:28:15.329 self condemnation and and it will never heal unless that sin is recognized first of 393 00:28:15.410 --> 00:28:22.529 all as a sin, is confessed, is repented and turned from and then 394 00:28:22.809 --> 00:28:26.130 is given to the Lord. Yeah, and he will, he will take 395 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:30.599 that burden, yeah, away from us. But not not if they're silence. 396 00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:36.839 None of that healing is going to happen, at least not the spiritual 397 00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:41.160 healing. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and if, as a pastor, 398 00:28:41.509 --> 00:28:45.109 you know that that's our chief desire, that the healing that God offers. 399 00:28:45.309 --> 00:28:48.470 Yeah, let you know problem. Sin Is introduced and accepted, you know, 400 00:28:48.549 --> 00:28:52.309 by those of you are listening right now. An example is just from 401 00:28:52.390 --> 00:28:59.420 today out on the sidewalk they're a woman stopped on on her way into the 402 00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:03.299 abortion center and and I handed her information, thinking she was there for an 403 00:29:03.299 --> 00:29:07.500 abortion, and she was very honest and said I'm not pregnant, that she 404 00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:11.769 already had the abortion it. Yeah, and I said well, how are 405 00:29:11.809 --> 00:29:15.490 you feeling? How are you dealing with it? and Said, Oh, 406 00:29:15.490 --> 00:29:19.769 I'm good, and she's just smiling and I said, honey, I don't 407 00:29:19.809 --> 00:29:26.880 think you're good, I'm I'm post abortive and I know the aftermath of abortion, 408 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:32.440 and she teared up and took my post abortive information that we handed her 409 00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:37.710 and just instantly her demeanor changed. Yeah, so she could carry on this 410 00:29:37.869 --> 00:29:44.029 veneer of feeling that she was good, but as soon as the issue was 411 00:29:44.230 --> 00:29:49.750 brought up she melted and I immediately went to a discussion of confession, forgiveness, 412 00:29:49.869 --> 00:29:53.059 turning to God and that I would talk to her any time, and 413 00:29:53.299 --> 00:29:56.259 so I hope, I hope she will call me. But but that's where 414 00:29:56.259 --> 00:30:03.619 healing begins, when that silence is lifted. Yeah, you know the analogy 415 00:30:03.660 --> 00:30:06.859 of a doctor. Again, if you're dealing with a wound and you're dealing 416 00:30:06.900 --> 00:30:11.650 with something that's you know it's underlying, it's not very evident. This wound 417 00:30:11.730 --> 00:30:14.210 is kind of covered up and it's covered up. You know, however, 418 00:30:14.250 --> 00:30:17.890 it's covered up, but the infection is not dealt with, it gets worse 419 00:30:18.369 --> 00:30:21.799 and it can ultimately lead to death. Right, and the same way with 420 00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:25.720 the issue of abortion. This is a deep wound that needs to be addressed. 421 00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:30.680 It needs to be some antiseptic, the Gospel and aseptic applied to it. 422 00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:33.039 But if it just stays covered up and it's not dealt with, it's 423 00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:37.990 going to fester and as gonna be all kinds of destruction. And that comes 424 00:30:37.670 --> 00:30:41.829 from that wound. And look at what the world is saying, though, 425 00:30:41.190 --> 00:30:48.109 about abortion. The the pro choice side, is saying it's normal. Yeah, 426 00:30:48.630 --> 00:30:55.900 it's okay, there is no aftermath, no consequences. And so here's 427 00:30:55.980 --> 00:31:00.140 this woman suffering in silence. Her Pastor's not talking about it, the world 428 00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:03.539 her for she's not daring to share it with anyone. Yeah, and she 429 00:31:03.059 --> 00:31:08.170 knows that's not true. She knows she doesn't feel normal. Yeah, she 430 00:31:08.490 --> 00:31:14.730 knows she's wounded and she feels this guilt that she doesn't know what to do 431 00:31:14.930 --> 00:31:18.480 with because there's no one and it's almost like a guilt of huldn't be feeling 432 00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:22.960 guilty like these, everybody says. So I'm abnormal. I'm completely out of 433 00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:26.279 the norm. Here there's people shouting their abortions. So why am I not? 434 00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:30.160 Why is that not what I'm feeling? Yeah, and if there's our 435 00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:36.589 spiritual heads, the the pastors in our churches, if they're not telling them 436 00:31:37.069 --> 00:31:41.670 this is wrong and there is a path to forgiveness and healing. But we 437 00:31:41.990 --> 00:31:48.859 have to recognize it's wrong first. Then, you know, they then they'll 438 00:31:48.859 --> 00:31:53.140 go on suffering in silence. Yeah, to worse and worse consequences. Yeah, 439 00:31:55.339 --> 00:31:59.019 so those were the top five. Okay, and in this one, 440 00:31:59.059 --> 00:32:02.650 let's see if there's some other ones. I do not want to be seen 441 00:32:02.690 --> 00:32:08.690 as conferencetional, is what one pasture. Yeah, or several pastors apparently reported. 442 00:32:08.730 --> 00:32:12.730 It's being why they don't talk about it. Yeah, and of course, 443 00:32:12.730 --> 00:32:16.240 again this is a this is a controversial issue, obviously, and anything 444 00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:22.079 that's controversial, when you mention it, you're viewed as a confrontational and in 445 00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:27.279 a sense, in any time you're addressing sin, you are confronting evil and 446 00:32:27.799 --> 00:32:31.190 there is a confrontation that takes place. But you know, as pastures and 447 00:32:31.549 --> 00:32:35.990 as ministers of the Gospel, if we don't deal with the issue of sin, 448 00:32:36.109 --> 00:32:37.549 I just abortion, but any other sin, if we don't talk about 449 00:32:37.710 --> 00:32:42.990 sin, we are derelict in our duty as pastors. We have to talk 450 00:32:43.029 --> 00:32:46.740 about sin because sin is the issue all of the eels of society, all 451 00:32:46.779 --> 00:32:51.539 the problems that are going on in the congregation and the things in their past 452 00:32:51.619 --> 00:32:54.500 that they're dealing with that they need healing from a rooted in sin. And 453 00:32:54.539 --> 00:32:58.890 so we don't address sin, they we're not addressing the main issue of separation 454 00:32:58.970 --> 00:33:01.849 between God and Man. You know, they're sort of this. It irks 455 00:33:01.890 --> 00:33:05.650 me now in one sense it's true. Okay, I listen to a lot 456 00:33:05.690 --> 00:33:10.130 of Christian preaching and Christian music and all that stuff, and the center around 457 00:33:10.130 --> 00:33:14.160 this idea is that people don't know how much God loves them and if only 458 00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:15.839 knew how much God loves them, how much they are value by God and 459 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:20.200 how special they are to God and how wonderful they are in God's sight. 460 00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:22.039 Okay, I'm going a little far with it, but you know, and 461 00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:27.670 saying that it's like it's focused on that. People don't go to hell because 462 00:33:27.710 --> 00:33:30.470 they don't know how much God loves them. People don't end up in hell 463 00:33:30.549 --> 00:33:34.950 and on destructive ass because they don't understand how wonderful they are to God. 464 00:33:35.789 --> 00:33:38.309 People go to hell because of their sin. That's why they go to hell. 465 00:33:38.589 --> 00:33:44.180 God puts people inhale because they are sinners who love their sin. We 466 00:33:44.259 --> 00:33:45.339 can talk about the love of God, and we should, but the love 467 00:33:45.339 --> 00:33:52.180 of God is only fully seen in light of our our reprobation against God. 468 00:33:52.299 --> 00:33:55.690 Right, depravity, reason why he shouldn't love us. Right, yeah. 469 00:33:55.970 --> 00:34:00.730 But but the fact that he loves US despite the fact that we're sinner and 470 00:34:00.970 --> 00:34:05.369 that in that is the the love of God displayed. Is that we were 471 00:34:05.490 --> 00:34:08.730 yet sinners. Right, Christ died for us. So our sin and our 472 00:34:08.809 --> 00:34:14.760 depravity and our departure from the truth, and yet God's willingness to come and 473 00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:20.480 to rescue and to save is a magnificent display of the love of God and 474 00:34:21.159 --> 00:34:24.389 in that people have confidence in God's love, that God would come and rescue 475 00:34:24.389 --> 00:34:27.670 me in the midst of my depravity. So, anyway, I say that 476 00:34:27.789 --> 00:34:30.269 to say that we need to talk about the issue of sin, we need 477 00:34:30.309 --> 00:34:34.030 to talk about the issue of abortion and other sins so that people can actually 478 00:34:34.030 --> 00:34:37.820 see the love of God on display and his mercy towards sinners. Yeah, 479 00:34:37.860 --> 00:34:43.219 and and that's an important that's some important job for every pastor. Yeah, 480 00:34:43.219 --> 00:34:50.300 I can't. I don't know any pastor who can effectively pastor at Church without 481 00:34:50.539 --> 00:34:53.170 confronting yeah, without being confrontational. Now, you can do it in a 482 00:34:53.329 --> 00:34:59.650 loving way. Yeah, but you know, if you who's our example ultimately, 483 00:34:59.730 --> 00:35:02.929 well, Jesus, Jesus example. Did Jesus ever mentioned him? Think 484 00:35:02.969 --> 00:35:07.000 you did quite a few times, a matter of fact. Often Times. 485 00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:13.519 Jesus was very confrontational and confronted, of course, the Pharisees in their hypocrisy, 486 00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:15.840 but he was not just you know, he confronted. You know, 487 00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:19.679 we look at John Chapter Four, at the story of the woman at the 488 00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:22.989 well. Yeah, and she comes and approaches him and she's wanting water and 489 00:35:23.150 --> 00:35:25.190 you know, he says, you would ask me, I could give you 490 00:35:25.309 --> 00:35:29.670 living water, and she says, well, I only get this water anyway. 491 00:35:29.710 --> 00:35:31.150 You know the story. But he doesn't just leave it there. You 492 00:35:31.230 --> 00:35:34.550 know, listen, women, you know I love you a whole lot. 493 00:35:34.590 --> 00:35:37.300 I just love you and your special to me and all that being a little 494 00:35:37.300 --> 00:35:40.380 silly, you get them saying, but he talks about her sin, like 495 00:35:40.539 --> 00:35:44.780 he's pointing out to her. He says, okay, good, call your 496 00:35:44.780 --> 00:35:46.059 husband here and she's like, well, I don't have a husband. He's 497 00:35:46.099 --> 00:35:51.250 like, Oh, yeah, you spoke right. You have had five husband's 498 00:35:51.250 --> 00:35:53.530 and the guy you're with now is not even your husband. He's calling out 499 00:35:53.570 --> 00:35:57.849 her sin. Yeah, he's not just hugging her and tell her how much 500 00:35:57.849 --> 00:36:00.530 he loves her. And now, of course, he does display the love 501 00:36:00.610 --> 00:36:04.679 of God and all of that. And and it seems like that whole area 502 00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:08.239 people came to Jesus and hurt his teaching and she proclaimed. You know, 503 00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:12.880 she ultimately receives a truth of WHO this guy is, but he talks about 504 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:15.719 her sin in the same way. You know in John, I think it's 505 00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:19.630 John Chapter Ten, with the woman that's was caught an adultrey. What does 506 00:36:19.670 --> 00:36:21.750 he tell her? He doesn't say, you know, after you know, 507 00:36:22.110 --> 00:36:23.230 you guys know the stories. I don't need to retell it. But all 508 00:36:23.269 --> 00:36:28.150 the accusers had left. It doesn't say, oh so we're your accusers, 509 00:36:28.389 --> 00:36:30.630 will just remember I love you right, you know, he says go and 510 00:36:30.829 --> 00:36:36.780 sin no more. He talks about sin even to because we might imagine Jesus 511 00:36:36.780 --> 00:36:38.900 is very harsh with the Pharisees but he's very soft with everyone else, and 512 00:36:39.019 --> 00:36:44.059 that in one sense is true. But he does talk about sin. He 513 00:36:44.179 --> 00:36:45.579 does talk about sin with the woman at the well, with the woman caught 514 00:36:45.579 --> 00:36:50.449 an adultery, talks about sin with his own apostles and talks about their sin 515 00:36:50.570 --> 00:36:52.170 of wanting to be, you know, the first in the Kingdom of God 516 00:36:52.210 --> 00:36:54.730 and want to sit beside him and on this throne. He talks about that 517 00:36:54.849 --> 00:37:00.530 sin of selfishness and and self promotion. And so Jesus is always addressing the 518 00:37:00.570 --> 00:37:05.320 issue is sin. Yes, Jesus is now, and was then, a 519 00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:10.920 very confrontational person, but he is very gracious in his confrontation. Yeah, 520 00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:15.750 and that's key, except for the whip of cords incident, and that was 521 00:37:15.869 --> 00:37:19.949 one, actually twice. Okay, yeah, it seems. It seems that 522 00:37:19.989 --> 00:37:23.949 happened twice. Okay, so you know, and pastors are trained, presumably, 523 00:37:24.750 --> 00:37:30.500 to be gracious and how that they confronts sin, but they they certainly 524 00:37:30.219 --> 00:37:32.139 need to come when you know, I hear a lot of times you know, 525 00:37:32.219 --> 00:37:36.619 we need to speak the truth and love, and what that basically means 526 00:37:36.780 --> 00:37:39.300 is we need to be nice to people. And it's true, but we 527 00:37:39.619 --> 00:37:43.820 again, we can't let the world dictate, dictate to us what it means 528 00:37:43.940 --> 00:37:49.210 to be speaking the truth and love. Like speaking the truth is love for 529 00:37:49.369 --> 00:37:52.050 some people who are in sin, dead in our trispasses and sins, or 530 00:37:52.050 --> 00:37:57.010 at least in bondage to pass ends even though they're Christians. This is kind 531 00:37:57.050 --> 00:38:00.400 of mostly what we're talking about as Christians in the congregation who are born of 532 00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:04.960 God and yet they have this sin in their past that they've not brought before 533 00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:08.239 the Lord, at least in any kind of a public in a healing way. 534 00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:14.389 We need are or they're sitting there contemplating abortion? It could be yes, 535 00:38:14.630 --> 00:38:17.429 sure, and so we need to address this issue for the sake of 536 00:38:17.469 --> 00:38:22.829 healing and restoration and for the sake of love. Love is an action word 537 00:38:22.030 --> 00:38:24.789 and as pastors, if we're going to love our congregants, we need to 538 00:38:24.829 --> 00:38:29.219 be talking about the issues that affect them. An abortion is one of those. 539 00:38:29.539 --> 00:38:32.179 We know it's statistically that one out of four women are affected by the 540 00:38:32.219 --> 00:38:36.179 issue of abortion. So you got to address the thing, even if we're 541 00:38:36.179 --> 00:38:42.690 viewed as confrontation. Yeah, so kind of a similar issue raised by some 542 00:38:42.849 --> 00:38:45.329 other pastors. I do not want to drive away anyone who has had an 543 00:38:45.329 --> 00:38:51.010 abortion or who has been directly touched by abortion. Yeah, and that's sort 544 00:38:51.010 --> 00:38:53.769 of similar to the in the confrontation thing and some of the previous things. 545 00:38:53.969 --> 00:38:59.639 You know, I don't want to I don't want to alienate anyone and I 546 00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:02.000 get it valid concern. But again, just like a doctor, he doesn't 547 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:07.320 want to drive patients aways. So does he refuse to talk about cancer or 548 00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:10.070 obesity or whatever? Of course not right, because this is job to address 549 00:39:10.070 --> 00:39:17.269 these issues so that they can be dealt with. Yeah, how about my 550 00:39:17.469 --> 00:39:23.820 fellow pastors are not talking about this topic either. Yeah, wow, that 551 00:39:23.980 --> 00:39:29.380 pastors actually said that. That was that's a main reason why they don't, 552 00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:34.260 because they feel like they'd be alone and discussing, yeah, the topic. 553 00:39:34.420 --> 00:39:38.210 Sometimes you have to stand out in a crowd, don't you? Sometimes you 554 00:39:38.329 --> 00:39:43.769 have to be the one who's addressing the things that other people aren't. Sounds 555 00:39:43.809 --> 00:39:49.250 a little bit like the Prophets of the apostles, Jesus. You know, 556 00:39:49.849 --> 00:39:53.679 sometimes you have to be the guy that's addressing the issue that no one else 557 00:39:53.719 --> 00:39:58.360 wants to talk about, because, again, it's the heart of God to 558 00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:00.360 to get these things out. You know the motivation, and it's if it 559 00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:04.800 comes from a some self righteous motivation. Or I want to talk about abortion. 560 00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:07.869 I talk about abortion all the time because I've never had one and been 561 00:40:07.869 --> 00:40:09.150 a part of one and it makes me feel more spiritual. Well, that 562 00:40:09.190 --> 00:40:13.349 would be a problem. That's probably not the case with most pastors there. 563 00:40:13.429 --> 00:40:16.750 They're shining away from it because they want alienate, isolate and and they don't 564 00:40:16.750 --> 00:40:22.059 want to stand out in a crowd of you know pastors. They're addressing issues. 565 00:40:22.099 --> 00:40:25.139 Yeah, but that's only really good point. That that every prophet, 566 00:40:25.260 --> 00:40:30.780 in Jesus himself, were were reviled. Yeah, and rejected by men. 567 00:40:31.139 --> 00:40:34.820 Yeah, what Jesus said, if they rejected me, they're going to reject 568 00:40:34.860 --> 00:40:37.929 you as well. Right, the motivation in again is not like want to 569 00:40:37.969 --> 00:40:42.690 be rejected. So let me go completely over the top with my proclamation of 570 00:40:42.769 --> 00:40:45.929 this particular truth. No, we address it in Biblical terms, in a 571 00:40:45.969 --> 00:40:51.320 biblical framework. But again, the world, the world's Goin to view us 572 00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:54.119 as nuts anyway. And we're talking about this eternal God who exists in three 573 00:40:54.199 --> 00:40:58.960 persons, who came to this earth, lay down his life to die for 574 00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:00.760 our sins and rose from the grave. The world thinks that, like the 575 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:06.230 Bible says that Gospel, the preaching of the cross, is foolishness to those 576 00:41:06.269 --> 00:41:08.869 who are perish. You know the world does when they call the preaching of 577 00:41:08.909 --> 00:41:13.389 the Cross and the prepeaching of the truths of God foolishness, is they just 578 00:41:13.429 --> 00:41:15.230 validate the scripture actually, because the Bible says that. They would call it 579 00:41:15.269 --> 00:41:19.139 foolishness. Yeah, so, you know, we can't fall into the trap 580 00:41:19.300 --> 00:41:22.300 and the snare of the fear of man and let the world dictate to us 581 00:41:22.340 --> 00:41:27.099 the things that we talk about. We can address issues and there are plenty 582 00:41:27.139 --> 00:41:30.059 of and this is an admonishment I want to give to anyone who is listening, 583 00:41:30.300 --> 00:41:34.010 whether it be a pastor that's listening or congregate who wants to talk to 584 00:41:34.090 --> 00:41:37.449 your pastor about addressing the issue of abortion, is that there are plenty of 585 00:41:37.530 --> 00:41:42.530 pastors out there on the Internet that have that very graciously and fourth rightly address 586 00:41:42.610 --> 00:41:45.130 this issue. I mean, if you search abortion, what does the Bible 587 00:41:45.170 --> 00:41:47.199 say about abortion, you're going to find, you know, John Piper is 588 00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:52.199 one of those guys who you almost like. The first three articles on that 589 00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:54.440 you know and that Google search are going to be from him, and then 590 00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:59.559 you're going to find plenty of other pastors that have addressed this issue and even 591 00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:02.949 messages you can listen to that will kind of give you an idea of how 592 00:42:02.989 --> 00:42:07.070 to go about this issue if you haven't or, you know, if you're 593 00:42:07.070 --> 00:42:10.510 a congregant and you want your pastor addresses issue, find some messages from some 594 00:42:10.670 --> 00:42:14.590 pastors that have and pass it along to your pastor and say hey, this 595 00:42:14.750 --> 00:42:17.699 pastor, and it quite likely he's it's a pastor that your pastor listens to 596 00:42:17.820 --> 00:42:22.260 or reads his books or whatever. Hey, this pastor addresses issue. Maybe, 597 00:42:22.420 --> 00:42:24.460 maybe you could address this thing. You know, I know they're there's 598 00:42:24.619 --> 00:42:29.900 I'm sure there's pressure on pastures to grow your church, yeah, and to 599 00:42:30.329 --> 00:42:37.849 have your congregation like you and and to invite all their friends. So I 600 00:42:37.650 --> 00:42:44.050 you know, and some of that is good, but if it's the motivation 601 00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:52.559 for whether you speak about a sin or not, then it's not good at 602 00:42:52.559 --> 00:43:00.150 all and what a lousy I'm sorry. What what allowsy excuse is that I 603 00:43:00.190 --> 00:43:02.750 don't want to. I don't want to be looked at as as a negative 604 00:43:02.829 --> 00:43:06.469 person or would right, or my church might, I might, there might 605 00:43:06.510 --> 00:43:09.550 be less attendants or whatever. You know that that was never it's might good 606 00:43:09.630 --> 00:43:14.059 down. That's not biblical. that'ss not Biblical. A matter of fact, 607 00:43:14.179 --> 00:43:16.420 Jesus, a story comes to mind in the life of Jesus and John, 608 00:43:16.460 --> 00:43:22.539 Chapter Six. It's almost like Jesus gives out of his way defend down his 609 00:43:22.659 --> 00:43:25.699 congregation, and this is a point where Jesus says, unless you eat my 610 00:43:25.820 --> 00:43:30.329 flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you. It's like 611 00:43:30.409 --> 00:43:34.130 Jesus knew who was talking to. He was talking to Jews who had, 612 00:43:34.489 --> 00:43:37.449 you know, abhorred pagan practices and they would be viewing you. Eating flesh 613 00:43:37.489 --> 00:43:40.679 and drinking blood would be a pagan practice that they would have afford. Right 614 00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:45.559 now. Jesus is not validating those practices, but he is, in a 615 00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:51.320 hyperbical way, making a point and trying to separate out those who truly wanted 616 00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:55.150 to to to know him and truly wanted to hear from him. He says 617 00:43:55.150 --> 00:43:58.309 at one point, you know you're coming to me just because you ate of 618 00:43:58.349 --> 00:44:00.989 the bread. This is after he'd multiplied the bread and the fish. And 619 00:44:01.070 --> 00:44:04.710 he says, but I'm the bread that came down from heaven. Unless you 620 00:44:04.750 --> 00:44:07.309 eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you. 621 00:44:07.550 --> 00:44:09.300 And then so many fell away. Yeah, it says. At one point, 622 00:44:10.219 --> 00:44:15.579 says many, many stopped following him. Yeah, and and they said 623 00:44:15.659 --> 00:44:17.179 this is a hard saying, Lord, who can receive? So he gave 624 00:44:17.260 --> 00:44:21.940 them a hard saying. He made it hard for them to receive to judge 625 00:44:21.980 --> 00:44:24.530 the motivation of their heart. And then, this is funny to me, 626 00:44:24.650 --> 00:44:29.090 he looks at his disciples, the twelve, who you know, had left 627 00:44:29.170 --> 00:44:31.889 everything to follow him, and looks at them and says, you guys going 628 00:44:31.929 --> 00:44:35.969 to leave to so he wasn't like, Oh, you guys gonna leave all 629 00:44:36.050 --> 00:44:38.400 move. No, he was like, way I see it in the scripture, 630 00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:40.760 he's looking at them and saying, you guys can hit the road too 631 00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:44.519 if you want, like this is too tough for you, you can hit 632 00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:49.559 the road too, because Jesus was not concerned about pleasing men, he was 633 00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:53.630 concerned about obeying and pleasing his father in heaven and as even souls. And 634 00:44:53.710 --> 00:45:00.869 you're not going to save souls unless you confront what is sick in the soul. 635 00:45:00.909 --> 00:45:04.670 Yeah, absolutely, Sin. Yeah, and of course there can always 636 00:45:04.710 --> 00:45:09.059 be you know, a I don't know, taking it too far right, 637 00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:13.460 taking things too far, where you know, maybe a pastor that all he 638 00:45:13.579 --> 00:45:15.619 talks about is sin, Sin, Sin, Sin, and I think you 639 00:45:15.739 --> 00:45:20.300 know every message. At least this is my opinion. You should be addressing 640 00:45:20.420 --> 00:45:22.969 sin, issues of sin and whatever, but it doesn't need to be a 641 00:45:23.010 --> 00:45:27.329 hyper focus on sin all the time. People do need to understand the love 642 00:45:27.409 --> 00:45:30.730 of God. People do need to understand the covenant that God has made with 643 00:45:30.929 --> 00:45:36.199 man. People do need to understand a lot of truths about about God and 644 00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:39.599 about his word. Right, so it's not just talking about sin constantly. 645 00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:45.400 You can go overboard and the he'll fire brimstone all the time teaching you know, 646 00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:50.789 messages about hell all the time can be a little overwhelming for people, 647 00:45:50.989 --> 00:45:58.230 as can be a message just calling out the wrong of abortion to women entering 648 00:45:58.269 --> 00:46:02.190 an abortion clinic. And that is tempered by good side by conclers, always 649 00:46:02.269 --> 00:46:07.099 tempered by offers of hope and help. Yeah, especially hope, the hope 650 00:46:07.179 --> 00:46:13.980 in Christ and the hope of actually the changeable resources that can help alleviate whatever 651 00:46:14.059 --> 00:46:16.820 situation it is that they're facing. Yeah, so that's a really good point. 652 00:46:16.820 --> 00:46:22.329 Yeah, yeah, well, you know, the Lord just encourage every 653 00:46:22.369 --> 00:46:25.289 pastor and every every person who is you know, obviously you're listening to this 654 00:46:25.449 --> 00:46:29.289 podcast because this issue is near and dear to your heart. And I know 655 00:46:29.369 --> 00:46:31.690 there's some because I hear a lot of times my pastor is not talking about 656 00:46:31.690 --> 00:46:36.440 this thing, pastors not addressing the issue. Ye, I'll say pray for 657 00:46:36.519 --> 00:46:39.559 your pastor. Yeah, because there is some pressure here and there is temptation 658 00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:46.150 to not address this issue at all or as often as you ought to because 659 00:46:46.190 --> 00:46:50.989 of some of these these things you know, and they're at all completely invalid. 660 00:46:51.030 --> 00:46:54.269 Some of them pretty miserable excuses. But pray for your pastor and, 661 00:46:54.789 --> 00:46:59.190 you know, talk to him, like I said earlier, get some articles, 662 00:46:59.349 --> 00:47:04.099 print out some articles, email some articles, some messages where pastors talking 663 00:47:04.139 --> 00:47:07.340 about it. It's cleaning good stuff out there. Yeah, you can email 664 00:47:07.420 --> 00:47:10.179 us, you can email me and I'll try to shoot over some some videos 665 00:47:10.219 --> 00:47:15.250 your away from Youtube or whatever. That could encourage anybody who's listening to and 666 00:47:15.650 --> 00:47:20.369 something you can share with your pastor. Again, but pray for your pastor, 667 00:47:21.329 --> 00:47:25.170 encourage your pastor in this area and it maybe you can be that point 668 00:47:25.250 --> 00:47:30.000 person within your congregation who, that's right, yeah, who makes those connections 669 00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:35.280 with sidewalk counseling ministries, with pregnancy resource center ministries or whatever that is. 670 00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:37.679 But with that, yeah, I think we ought to rep this thing up. 671 00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:40.760 Yeah, you think? Yeah, yeah, so we appreciate those who 672 00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:45.670 do listen and, as we all and as we always do, encourage you 673 00:47:45.710 --> 00:47:49.230 to contact us. Reach out to me. D Parks at cities cities in 674 00:47:49.269 --> 00:47:53.070 the number four lifecom and V cassie Org at cities for lifecom. If you 675 00:47:53.110 --> 00:47:58.780 want to connect with Vicki, and maybe you know you are thinking about starting 676 00:47:58.860 --> 00:48:01.860 a sidewalk counseling ministry in your local congregation. You're not from our area, 677 00:48:01.940 --> 00:48:06.579 so you can't connect with us as cities for life, but you can start 678 00:48:06.579 --> 00:48:09.739 out of your own congregation a sidewalk counseling ministry. That's what the sidewalks for 679 00:48:09.820 --> 00:48:15.570 life website is all about. WWW dot sidewalks, the number four lifecom. 680 00:48:15.170 --> 00:48:20.449 It's there to equip and to encourage and of course we're here. You can 681 00:48:20.489 --> 00:48:22.730 email us and we'll do the best we can to encourage you and maybe connect 682 00:48:22.730 --> 00:48:25.849 you with others who in your area who are doing there's actually a map on 683 00:48:25.889 --> 00:48:30.480 that website. We can connect with other sidewalk counselors that are not necessarily people 684 00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:31.800 that we know. They've just somehow, I don't know how we got there, 685 00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:35.400 information, put it on a map and you can search your area. 686 00:48:36.039 --> 00:48:38.719 But but those resources, that resources there to encourage you, guys, and 687 00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:43.630 this podcast is here to encourage you, guys, and we do appreciate you 688 00:48:44.389 --> 00:48:54.269 listening to us and we look forward to talking again soon. Give for love, 689 00:48:58.980 --> 00:49:07.420 give me our loft for gratitude. I know it will cost me my 690 00:49:07.780 --> 00:49:15.170 life. Nothing's too precious in some you