When And How To Talk About Forgiveness

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.759 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me. 2 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:09.070 Lord, I believe it or not, there's a right and wrong way 3 00:00:09.230 --> 00:00:13.789 and a right and wrong time to introduce the subject of forgiveness, especially with 4 00:00:13.869 --> 00:00:17.870 an abortion minded woman or with a woman that's just had an abortion. Scripture 5 00:00:17.910 --> 00:00:20.429 has a lot to say about forgiveness. So join us as we talk through 6 00:00:20.510 --> 00:00:34.100 this subject. I felt show Tassis touch your all right. Well, welcome 7 00:00:34.179 --> 00:00:38.850 back to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. We wanted to do an episode 8 00:00:39.530 --> 00:00:45.369 specifically about forgiveness. Forgiveness is an important topic. Right when we're talking about 9 00:00:46.490 --> 00:00:50.079 Biblical topics and subjects, forgiveness is one that comes up a lot. It 10 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:54.320 should. We're out on the sidewalks at the abortion clinics and I'm sure those 11 00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:57.039 who are in pregnancy centers, those who deal with, you know, pro 12 00:00:57.159 --> 00:01:00.920 life issues, you deal with a topic of forgiveness and people talking about forgiveness 13 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:06.590 and particular people who are post abortive or people who are going to abort, 14 00:01:06.629 --> 00:01:08.390 which is what we're going to talk about from our point of view, on 15 00:01:08.430 --> 00:01:15.950 the sidewalks and the subject of forgiveness, and you know what I'm talking about 16 00:01:15.950 --> 00:01:19.019 specifically is people going into an abortion clinic and say, and you know, 17 00:01:19.260 --> 00:01:22.659 Gods are forgiving God, therefore, I'll go in here and have my abortion, 18 00:01:23.180 --> 00:01:26.420 I ask for forgiveness and and I'll be good to go. Yeah, 19 00:01:26.579 --> 00:01:30.939 and so how do you address that biblically and what do you say in those 20 00:01:30.019 --> 00:01:33.969 situations? You know, what do you say when you're in a pregnancy center? 21 00:01:34.090 --> 00:01:38.810 My wife worked in a pregnancy center and still does some and in the 22 00:01:38.890 --> 00:01:42.250 counseling sessions you'll hear the same some of the same things that we hear on 23 00:01:42.409 --> 00:01:45.329 the sidewalk. You know. I Know God's are forgiving God and I might 24 00:01:45.409 --> 00:01:48.040 go in here and I want to have my abortion. He's going to forgive 25 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:49.879 me and they deal with that. and pregnancy centers they deal with that. 26 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:53.040 And you know, maybe in any realm of ministry when you're dealing with people 27 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:59.120 actively involved in in Sinfil behavior and there's this attitude of God's going to forgive 28 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:01.430 me. So how do you address that? I mean, because you have 29 00:02:01.670 --> 00:02:07.590 this biblical truth that God is a God that offers forgiveness, he is a 30 00:02:07.789 --> 00:02:13.909 forgiving God, but then you have folks that take the forgiveness of God and 31 00:02:13.990 --> 00:02:17.099 God's willingness to forgive as a license to sin. Right. How you deal 32 00:02:17.180 --> 00:02:20.659 with that? Yeah, we're going to talk about it. Does it becomes 33 00:02:21.259 --> 00:02:24.340 what we see over and over again. It becomes a rationalization for sin. 34 00:02:24.699 --> 00:02:30.050 God is a forgiving God. Therefore, I can go do really anything and 35 00:02:30.210 --> 00:02:32.250 God will forgive me. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it seems that 36 00:02:32.330 --> 00:02:37.169 the Apostle Paul dealt with the same the same subject, where he says, 37 00:02:37.610 --> 00:02:39.729 you know, one point, you should be sin more so that grace might 38 00:02:39.849 --> 00:02:45.639 abound much more. May It never be. Yeah, God forbid. Yeah, 39 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:49.120 that we would take that attitude. And it really is dealing with the 40 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:54.199 heart attitude. It's dealing with the attitude of people. His Heart's going to 41 00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:58.240 abortion clinics, are doing just in general, and you know, as Christians, 42 00:02:58.629 --> 00:03:01.430 we got to be careful not to have this attitude of just, you 43 00:03:01.509 --> 00:03:06.590 know, we can do it, we want to because God's forgiving and we're 44 00:03:06.629 --> 00:03:09.469 really presuming upon the forgiveness of God. We are. And and is he 45 00:03:09.629 --> 00:03:15.099 required? Is he required to forgive us? Is he required to do anything? 46 00:03:15.340 --> 00:03:17.219 Right, yeah, it tells, like I was telling you, when 47 00:03:17.219 --> 00:03:21.259 we're preparing, and this is something I'll say actually on a regular basis at 48 00:03:21.259 --> 00:03:23.939 the abortion clinics, when I'm talking to DAD's, I'm talking to MOM's, 49 00:03:24.139 --> 00:03:28.409 I'll say, you know what, God is not required to forgive anyone for 50 00:03:28.650 --> 00:03:30.969 anything. Right, God's not beholding to us. It's not like, you 51 00:03:31.050 --> 00:03:36.090 know, God was created for us. You know, and that's the attitude 52 00:03:36.129 --> 00:03:38.889 that a lot of folks have. The gods like this genie in a bottle. 53 00:03:38.009 --> 00:03:40.439 He was created for us to make us feel good. You know, 54 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:45.159 it's it's a lot of what's put forth and you know, and a lot 55 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:47.560 of the Christian books and teachings is out there. Somehow the world revolves around 56 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:53.039 us. Yeah, and you know, the focus is just us, when 57 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:57.830 actually the focus is God. We were made for him. He's not required. 58 00:03:57.949 --> 00:04:00.669 We don't know. It's not like a genie in a bottle or lamp 59 00:04:00.750 --> 00:04:03.710 or whatever. You Rub the thing and you get what you want. Right, 60 00:04:03.789 --> 00:04:10.500 right, you know, God is God. He made everything. He's 61 00:04:10.580 --> 00:04:15.659 not required to do anything for anyone. Right, but we see he's merciful 62 00:04:15.819 --> 00:04:18.660 and he's willing and he does put conditions on us, though. Yeah, 63 00:04:18.740 --> 00:04:25.290 in terms of forgiveness, there are things that are required of us for his 64 00:04:25.970 --> 00:04:31.649 forgiveness. Yeah, and one of the questions that I was thinking about as 65 00:04:31.689 --> 00:04:41.319 I was pondering this topic, is is there unconditional forgiveness from God? And 66 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:45.480 if not, well, what are the conditions? Yeah, for forgiveness? 67 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:48.959 Before we jump into that, let's think about some of the dangers here, 68 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:53.750 okay, because we're talking about in particulars. We're talking about women going into 69 00:04:53.750 --> 00:04:57.470 an abortion Clin they were talking about abortion minded women. And what are some 70 00:04:57.550 --> 00:05:01.069 of the dangers like? Why would we even have a concern about forgiveness? 71 00:05:01.069 --> 00:05:03.870 Because, you know, most people might think you of forgiveness is important, 72 00:05:03.949 --> 00:05:08.379 we need to be forgiving, and we do, and and God's forgiving and 73 00:05:08.740 --> 00:05:11.579 your forgiveness, forgiveness, forgiveness, and it's important. Blah, Blah. 74 00:05:11.620 --> 00:05:13.980 We don't want to get muddy up the waters and giveness. Okay, I 75 00:05:14.019 --> 00:05:16.259 get that. Yeah, but what are the dangers with us? You know, 76 00:05:16.379 --> 00:05:19.899 maybe maybe a woman's walking into an abortion clinic and and we you know, 77 00:05:20.139 --> 00:05:24.410 God'll forgive you. What would be the danger of doing that? And 78 00:05:24.569 --> 00:05:31.889 that's so dangerous and I so love that question because so many loving Christians think 79 00:05:31.970 --> 00:05:35.800 that the message that we should be calling out at at the sidewalk of an 80 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:41.920 abortion center should be one of love, unconditional love, and forgiveness, and 81 00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:46.279 it is used over and over again. You and I have seen it over 82 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:49.670 and over again. It is used as a motivation, in an excuse to 83 00:05:49.829 --> 00:05:56.790 go and do this very horrific, sinful act of killing their own child. 84 00:05:56.829 --> 00:06:01.750 Yeah, so forgiveness is an absolutely critical message for all of us. Yeah, 85 00:06:01.910 --> 00:06:10.300 all need to understand forgiveness. But the timing in a prolife ministry such 86 00:06:10.339 --> 00:06:14.579 as a on the sidewalk in front of an abortion center, the timing of 87 00:06:14.699 --> 00:06:21.170 when that message of forgiveness is given is really important. So many times I 88 00:06:23.009 --> 00:06:27.810 have been on a sidewalk in front of the abortion center and had a woman 89 00:06:28.009 --> 00:06:31.410 say, I know it's wrong, I know that God doesn't want me to 90 00:06:31.529 --> 00:06:35.560 do this, but I'm going to do it anyway because God is a forgiving 91 00:06:35.720 --> 00:06:40.120 God. Yeah, and and I think that we do need to grapple with 92 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:45.759 very specifically. What are some ways that we can counter that statement? Because 93 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:48.110 I've heard it over and over again, I think most of our counselors have. 94 00:06:48.949 --> 00:06:53.269 So it is a great, great question, question, Daniel, that 95 00:06:55.029 --> 00:06:59.790 that there is a danger, yeah, in the in when and how to 96 00:07:00.149 --> 00:07:06.139 present the message of forgiveness and the counter message or other points of confession and 97 00:07:06.300 --> 00:07:10.860 repentance, ycause they're all tied, yeah, together. I mean, you 98 00:07:10.980 --> 00:07:14.620 know, the danger in my mind is that, you know, if I've 99 00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:18.410 preach the message of forgiveness, and I want to say too early, but 100 00:07:18.490 --> 00:07:24.490 I guess in the wrong timing, that I am part of the justification, 101 00:07:24.569 --> 00:07:27.930 at least what I'm saying is part of the justification, for a person to 102 00:07:27.970 --> 00:07:30.920 go in and kill a child. Yeah, how many times have we had 103 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:35.079 people who are contemplating abortion talk with us for a long time, asking a 104 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:42.120 lot of questions, and really what they're doing is kind of fishing for an 105 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:47.990 excuse for us to say something that excuses them to go and have the abortion, 106 00:07:48.670 --> 00:07:55.629 and sadly, forgiveness can be one of those things. So I'm increasingly 107 00:07:55.750 --> 00:08:01.660 careful about if it's a woman going into an abortion center, I rarely speak 108 00:08:01.699 --> 00:08:07.060 about forgiveness. Yeah, yeah, unless they have made that statement. God 109 00:08:07.220 --> 00:08:09.660 is a forgiving God, so I'm going to go do this and I know 110 00:08:09.819 --> 00:08:13.410 he will forgive me. Yeah, and I know we're going to get into 111 00:08:13.449 --> 00:08:16.329 that. Yeah, I think one of the one of the hangups is, 112 00:08:16.290 --> 00:08:24.449 okay, so the statement God will forgive me actually incorrect, right, because 113 00:08:24.170 --> 00:08:28.879 we're going to talk about that again, because the will part is almost implies 114 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:35.000 that he has to. Now I think the correct statement is God can forgive 115 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:39.440 you and God is willing to forgive you, but the forgiveness is dependent upon 116 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:45.669 your ability to repent. So you know I've respond with you to men especially, 117 00:08:45.750 --> 00:08:48.149 but also to women that I've talked to you that take that attitude of 118 00:08:48.470 --> 00:08:50.509 well, if I go in here, will God forgive me? And I 119 00:08:50.590 --> 00:08:54.549 actually will respond sometimes with no, he will not forgive you, not if 120 00:08:54.590 --> 00:08:58.620 you have an attitude of I'm going to do this and God is required to 121 00:08:58.659 --> 00:09:01.220 forgive me. God is not required. That's what I would say. I'll 122 00:09:01.220 --> 00:09:05.259 say God is not required to forgive anyone for anything. And if you go 123 00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:11.649 in to do something that you know is wrong and you harden your heart against 124 00:09:11.690 --> 00:09:15.490 God and the truth that he's telling you through his people right here, there's 125 00:09:15.490 --> 00:09:18.570 no promise that when you come out of that abortion clinic your Heart's going to 126 00:09:18.610 --> 00:09:22.450 be soft enough to even ask for forgiveness. Because if you harden your heart 127 00:09:22.450 --> 00:09:26.519 against God, and you know the Bible warns against searing your conscience like with 128 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:31.000 a heart the hot iron. Is what the Bible says and it's this callousness 129 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:35.440 that is not going to be softened before God, that is not going to 130 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:39.269 be asking for forgiveness. You know, you've hardened your heart against God and 131 00:09:39.389 --> 00:09:43.470 you're going to continue to go in hardening and that's that is a scary place 132 00:09:43.590 --> 00:09:48.950 to be in. It is and there's lots of verses yet that warn against 133 00:09:50.029 --> 00:09:52.669 that. Yeah, and here's what I want to say to folks who are 134 00:09:52.710 --> 00:09:56.940 listening who maybe right right now thinking God's forgiving and we should be. You 135 00:09:56.019 --> 00:10:00.299 know, we should be gentle and we should be we've talked about that. 136 00:10:00.419 --> 00:10:01.500 We should be we should be kind. We don't need to be mean, 137 00:10:01.659 --> 00:10:05.259 we don't need to be angry, but we have to understand that when we 138 00:10:05.379 --> 00:10:11.610 approach ministry, that we have to approach ministry on God's terms and not based 139 00:10:11.649 --> 00:10:15.610 on what we feel and what we think and the idea that, you know, 140 00:10:15.690 --> 00:10:18.090 we don't want people to be angry with us if we don't tell them 141 00:10:18.129 --> 00:10:20.330 that, yeah, they're going to be forgiven if they have the abortion. 142 00:10:20.769 --> 00:10:24.240 It's not about them, it's not about us, it's not about our feelings, 143 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:26.240 it's not about how, you know, abortion minded woman might look at 144 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:31.080 us. It's about the Lord. And what does his word says anytime we 145 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:35.269 approach a subject. You know, I could care less what modern society says. 146 00:10:35.309 --> 00:10:39.350 I could care less what modern Christianity says. I could care less what 147 00:10:39.549 --> 00:10:45.029 the latest, you know, you slick TV preacher, says in his latest 148 00:10:45.070 --> 00:10:48.110 book. I could care less. I don't know what Saith the scriptures. 149 00:10:48.509 --> 00:10:52.940 So when we're talking about forgiveness and we're talking about the availability of forgiveness and 150 00:10:54.100 --> 00:10:58.019 the application of forgiveness, what does the Bible say? That's what I want 151 00:10:58.059 --> 00:10:58.899 to know and that's what we all should want to know. Absolutely. And 152 00:10:58.980 --> 00:11:03.740 forgiveness is APPs is is the most, well, I don't know the most. 153 00:11:03.779 --> 00:11:07.690 It's certainly one of the most critical points of salvation. Yeah, and 154 00:11:07.809 --> 00:11:11.809 if you don't get forgiveness right, you're missing a major point a love. 155 00:11:11.970 --> 00:11:18.399 How we find our way back to God. So well, here's some verses, 156 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:24.039 okay, that that I think are valuable verses. When people say I'm 157 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:28.639 going to go do this horrible sin that I know God says I shouldn't do 158 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:33.110 because he forgives first, John, three, six. No one who abides 159 00:11:33.190 --> 00:11:39.110 in him keeps on sinning. No one who keep son sinning has had either 160 00:11:39.149 --> 00:11:43.549 seen him or known him. And here's one of my favorites. I recite 161 00:11:43.590 --> 00:11:48.379 this one a lot at the abortion center. He Brews ten twenty six through 162 00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:54.379 seven. For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the 163 00:11:54.539 --> 00:12:01.179 truth, they're no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation 164 00:12:01.340 --> 00:12:05.850 of judgment and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. So there's 165 00:12:05.889 --> 00:12:11.250 this in both of those. If we continue in sin, if we keep 166 00:12:11.370 --> 00:12:16.000 on sending if then we don't know him. He's it's very clear we don't 167 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:20.399 know him. Jesus himself says this. And Luke six hundred and forty six, 168 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:24.600 why do you call me Lord Lord and not do what I say? 169 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:28.559 Yeah, so, if he's our Lord, then will obey him. Yeah, 170 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.870 you know, one of the hangouts we might have. You know, 171 00:12:31.029 --> 00:12:35.629 and I'm sure folks maybe just listen to those verses and you've read those verses 172 00:12:35.710 --> 00:12:39.190 before and you think, well, you know us. I've sinned after I 173 00:12:39.269 --> 00:12:41.590 became a Christian. And is that verse, especially in First John and the 174 00:12:41.750 --> 00:12:46.860 Hebrews verse? Is that verse discluding me, like I can't be forgiven now 175 00:12:46.940 --> 00:12:48.899 because I've sinned after I became a Christian. After I become a Christian, 176 00:12:48.980 --> 00:12:52.179 I supposed to be sinless and ever sin. No, that's not what that 177 00:12:52.379 --> 00:12:54.820 say. You know, as a matter of fact, John and first John 178 00:12:54.860 --> 00:12:58.370 and the first part of chapter two. He says I write these things little 179 00:12:58.409 --> 00:13:03.049 children, that you may that you send not but if any of you does 180 00:13:03.169 --> 00:13:05.409 sin, you haven't had to advocate with the father. Doesn't say when, 181 00:13:05.690 --> 00:13:09.570 by the way, because sin should be the exception and not the rule. 182 00:13:09.769 --> 00:13:13.720 But he does say if anyone since John Acknowledges that a Christian might fall into 183 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:16.799 sin. Right, what he's talking about? He's talking about a lifestyle of 184 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:20.320 sin. He's talking about a pattern of sin, rebellion against God. Keep 185 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:26.750 on sinning, deliberately continue in sin. Those doosis persisting in sense. That's 186 00:13:26.789 --> 00:13:31.590 right, that's right. And so you know, I guess you could play 187 00:13:31.750 --> 00:13:35.429 with trying to figure out, well, when have I sinned enough in this 188 00:13:35.629 --> 00:13:39.269 same area that I'm continuing in sin? And I think you're playing with fire. 189 00:13:39.269 --> 00:13:43.059 Yeah, you're continuing in Senata, in any area. So if someone 190 00:13:43.179 --> 00:13:48.220 is walking into an abortion center has received the knowledge of truth, they know 191 00:13:48.379 --> 00:13:50.100 the truth, they admit it's the truth. They say, I know this 192 00:13:50.299 --> 00:13:54.299 is wrong. God would not approve, but I'm going to go do it 193 00:13:54.539 --> 00:14:00.850 anyway. That, to me is a continuing yeah to sin, when really 194 00:14:00.929 --> 00:14:05.730 what we're called upon is to confess our sin and repent. Yeah, and 195 00:14:05.970 --> 00:14:11.080 and and turn from turn. Yes, I knew some years back. Yeah, 196 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:15.600 with Ray Comfort in his ministry. We use his evangelism method. I 197 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:18.960 guess. To me it's the biblical method of, you know, law to 198 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:20.159 the proud and grace to the humble. So sharing the law of God. 199 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:24.669 WHO and people they're guilt before God in their sin. But he gave an 200 00:14:24.750 --> 00:14:28.870 example talking about something along these lines. He gives really good analogies and I 201 00:14:28.950 --> 00:14:31.909 think this one stuck in my mind and he gave the analogy of a father 202 00:14:31.990 --> 00:14:33.950 and son going on a fishing trip. I don't know if you ever heard 203 00:14:33.990 --> 00:14:37.190 this before. There's a father and son there own a fishing trip and they're 204 00:14:37.269 --> 00:14:41.379 camping beside this body of water, Lake or pond or whatever, and the 205 00:14:41.460 --> 00:14:45.059 father tells the son. He says, you know, we're here, we're 206 00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:46.580 having fun, we're going to enjoy our time here together, but I want 207 00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:50.940 to warn you that in that lake or alligators and if you go swim in 208 00:14:52.059 --> 00:14:54.769 that Lake, you're going to be attacked by alligators. To stay out of 209 00:14:54.850 --> 00:14:58.090 that that lake and will be final will have a good time. Well, 210 00:14:58.210 --> 00:15:01.049 the sun, you know, in the progress of time, starts thinking about 211 00:15:01.049 --> 00:15:05.289 okay, wow, he told me they're alligators there. I don't see the 212 00:15:05.330 --> 00:15:07.960 alligators there, and it looks like you'd be fun to try to just swim 213 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:11.240 across to that that island. And and so the sun jumps in the water 214 00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:15.480 and he swims across and sure enough, just as his father warned him, 215 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:18.799 alligators came and attack the young man. He's being taken under. He's about 216 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:22.629 to lose his life and the father goes into the pond to get his son 217 00:15:22.669 --> 00:15:26.190 out and fight the alligators and gets bit himself and, you know, even 218 00:15:26.230 --> 00:15:30.350 loses a limb to rescue a son, drags him back to shore and throws 219 00:15:30.389 --> 00:15:33.870 him up on shore and rescues him in that way. And The Sun looks 220 00:15:33.870 --> 00:15:37.980 round. Thanks father for saving me, but it was really fun out there 221 00:15:39.019 --> 00:15:41.220 in the pond. And he goes and jumps back in the pond. Is 222 00:15:41.299 --> 00:15:45.179 He really understanding the gravity of what his father did for him? is He 223 00:15:45.299 --> 00:15:50.610 really understanding the the nature of his transgression of his father's words. Right, 224 00:15:50.809 --> 00:15:54.889 he's not. It's right person that goes into an abortion clinic that talks about 225 00:15:54.929 --> 00:15:58.129 forgiveness and talks about, you know, God's disposition towards humanity, which is 226 00:15:58.210 --> 00:16:02.850 one of love and gray and forgiveness, and that's true. But then they 227 00:16:02.850 --> 00:16:04.840 have this attitude. So I'm going to go and swim with the alligators anyway, 228 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:08.440 even though I know that you know and whatever, they really don't grasp 229 00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:12.600 the the the full scope of what Jesus Christ did on the Cross when they 230 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:15.559 have that attitude, and I would say if they have that attitude, they're 231 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:18.190 not born of God, they don't know the Lord, they don't know his 232 00:16:18.309 --> 00:16:22.070 forgiveness. Yeah, that's what we're dealing with for the most part, and 233 00:16:22.149 --> 00:16:26.909 that's a great story and I think stories are a way to respond. Jesus 234 00:16:26.990 --> 00:16:30.070 responded that way in parable. So also kind. But I've actually use that 235 00:16:30.190 --> 00:16:33.659 story with a few of the the man that I've spoken to and feel the 236 00:16:33.700 --> 00:16:37.179 ladies I've spoken to over the years at the abortion clinic and just gave them 237 00:16:37.220 --> 00:16:40.860 that and it's something they can connect with. Yeah, I I've done a 238 00:16:40.980 --> 00:16:45.100 similar thing with with just another story where I've said well, okay, you're 239 00:16:45.179 --> 00:16:52.049 correct. God is a forgiving God, and and and so let me ask 240 00:16:52.129 --> 00:16:57.409 you this. If, if you're married and and your husband comes to you 241 00:16:57.809 --> 00:17:03.000 and says, there's a really great looking neighbor just moved in next door and 242 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:08.240 I am going to go have an affair with her, it means nothing. 243 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:12.559 I'm just attracted to her. I'm going to go, I'll be right back, 244 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:18.349 because you are a forgiving woman and you've forgiven me so much in the 245 00:17:18.430 --> 00:17:22.589 past that I know you're going to forgive me for this. So, honey, 246 00:17:22.710 --> 00:17:26.069 just I'll be back in twenty minutes. Yeah, and then I say 247 00:17:26.150 --> 00:17:30.539 to the one women, would this fly with you? It's that unacceptable thing. 248 00:17:30.660 --> 00:17:34.259 Yeah, and they say no, well, no, of course it 249 00:17:34.339 --> 00:17:38.740 wouldn't. You're presuming, you're going and doing something that you know is going 250 00:17:38.779 --> 00:17:47.289 to harm and hurt and disregard the the covenant that you have made with someone 251 00:17:47.329 --> 00:17:52.250 you love. Yeah, and you're presuming on their forgiveness when you come back. 252 00:17:52.970 --> 00:17:56.529 And when, when you put it in those terms, though, the 253 00:17:56.690 --> 00:18:00.839 women understand. Well, yeah, I know, I that that would not 254 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.880 be okay, but that's what we're asking of God. Yeah, when we 255 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.680 say you are forgiving God, therefore, I am going to break my covenant 256 00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:12.309 with you. I'm going to disregard your clear commands thou shall not murder. 257 00:18:12.349 --> 00:18:18.230 Yeah, because I'm going to presume on on your forgiveness. Yeah, and, 258 00:18:18.349 --> 00:18:22.950 like you said earlier, God's not required to forgive. Yeah, and 259 00:18:23.349 --> 00:18:26.380 God's not going to be trifled with. You know, the Bible would in 260 00:18:26.420 --> 00:18:30.339 the biblical principle, whatever you so that's what you'll reap if you so. 261 00:18:30.819 --> 00:18:37.259 Death. Don't expect to reason, you to reap this glorious union with God 262 00:18:37.579 --> 00:18:42.130 and this glorious reception, because death brings about death. And you, you've 263 00:18:42.250 --> 00:18:48.809 rejected God's truth and you rejected the availability of his forgiveness by exchanging that for 264 00:18:48.970 --> 00:18:52.009 really a lie, because that's, you know, just saying that you're sorry 265 00:18:52.210 --> 00:18:56.960 and coming and somehow that's going to bring restoration. That's not forgiveness and that's 266 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:02.359 not restoration and certainly not repentance. Right, and let me let me read 267 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.720 to you a few verses, because you just talked about when you just say 268 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:10.000 you're sorry, which is confession. It's the confession of your sorrow over your 269 00:19:10.029 --> 00:19:12.829 sin. Right. So there are some verses, lots of verses, but 270 00:19:12.910 --> 00:19:15.910 I'll read just a couple and then I want to ask you about, if 271 00:19:15.950 --> 00:19:21.630 you could talk more about that, the difference between confession and repentance and how 272 00:19:21.910 --> 00:19:26.619 how that is all a part of the whole forgiveness. Yeah, the whole 273 00:19:26.660 --> 00:19:30.259 picture, for the whole picture forgiveness. Okay, so Romans ten, nine 274 00:19:30.339 --> 00:19:34.339 to ten. If you confess that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised 275 00:19:34.380 --> 00:19:37.059 him from the dead, you will be saved, for it is by our 276 00:19:37.180 --> 00:19:41.769 faith that we are pute right with God. It is by our confession that 277 00:19:41.930 --> 00:19:47.890 we are saved. And some. Thirty two five. Then I confessed my 278 00:19:48.049 --> 00:19:52.119 sins to you. I did not conceal my wrongdoings. I decided to confess 279 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:57.000 them to you and you forgave all my sins. And then the last one. 280 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:00.839 I'll read to you first, John One nine. If we confess our 281 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:04.960 sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse 282 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.670 us from all righteousness, all and Righteous Oh, I'm sorry, all on 283 00:20:10.750 --> 00:20:15.269 righteousness. So I know you've heard, as I have many times from women 284 00:20:15.309 --> 00:20:19.589 who are at the abortion center. Well, I've said I'm sorry, yeah, 285 00:20:19.589 --> 00:20:23.140 I've told God I'm sorry. Yeah, is that? Does that earn 286 00:20:23.779 --> 00:20:27.619 God's forgiveness. Yeah, well, again there's that attitude of you know, 287 00:20:29.380 --> 00:20:33.940 we don't believe anyone can earn their salvation. Salvation comes through faith in Jesus 288 00:20:33.019 --> 00:20:40.609 Christ. Confession is an important part of repentance and God, you know, 289 00:20:41.210 --> 00:20:45.250 does not reject those who honestly like that Psalm says, you know, I 290 00:20:45.369 --> 00:20:49.039 confess my sins to you. I did not conceal my wrongdoings. Bible says 291 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:53.680 those that conceal their sins will not prosper, but those that confess and forsake 292 00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:59.880 them will have mercy. So there's this confession and this forsakings and that's where 293 00:20:59.920 --> 00:21:03.470 repentance really comes in, because repentance is not just saying I'm sorry. You 294 00:21:03.589 --> 00:21:07.190 know, we think about you know, repent. You know that word is, 295 00:21:07.269 --> 00:21:11.029 I guess, maybe more of a you know, religious word or people, 296 00:21:11.309 --> 00:21:14.589 you know, kind of look at it. But the Greek word has 297 00:21:14.630 --> 00:21:18.099 some very practical implications. And some people say, well, just repent means 298 00:21:18.220 --> 00:21:22.220 just change your mind. No, not really. It's part. That's part 299 00:21:22.259 --> 00:21:25.619 of it. It's to change your mind, it's for your heart to be 300 00:21:25.700 --> 00:21:29.900 changed. And here's the point. The important point is it's the direction of 301 00:21:29.980 --> 00:21:33.009 your feet changing. It actually is a one hundred and eighty degree turn. 302 00:21:33.089 --> 00:21:37.250 So true repentance, if a mother's going into an abortion clinic, true repentance 303 00:21:37.250 --> 00:21:41.529 is not just confessing that what she did is wrong or what she's about to 304 00:21:41.609 --> 00:21:45.849 do is wrong, but it's actually turning around and leaving the place right and 305 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:51.680 you know, and there is a difference in what we're talking to, and 306 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:56.759 we'll get to mothers who've already had abortions and forgiveness, because that the message 307 00:21:56.759 --> 00:22:02.230 of forgiveness is an important message for those have already had abortions. Right now, 308 00:22:02.309 --> 00:22:04.789 what we're talking about is sort of a preemptive forgiveness. And is that 309 00:22:04.829 --> 00:22:10.150 available? Is that something that God offers? It's not. You will not 310 00:22:10.309 --> 00:22:12.710 see in the Bible where, you know, someone confesses, you know, 311 00:22:12.750 --> 00:22:17.339 I'm about to go and commit adultery God, but I know you're forgiving, 312 00:22:17.420 --> 00:22:19.859 so you'll forgive me. You don't see God receiving that. No, where 313 00:22:21.019 --> 00:22:23.900 ever in the scriptures. Right you see an attitude like this because you know 314 00:22:23.940 --> 00:22:30.650 maybe shift into a post abortive woman, somebody who's already committed sin. Psalm 315 00:22:30.769 --> 00:22:33.529 fifty one told you I wanted to go here. The Psalm was just, 316 00:22:33.730 --> 00:22:38.170 yeah, powerful Psalm of repentance, Right Confession and repentance of sin. And 317 00:22:38.250 --> 00:22:41.970 this is David after he had sinned with best she send in a gross way. 318 00:22:42.289 --> 00:22:45.559 He'd broken all ten of the Ten Commandments, you know, and this 319 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:52.160 and this one span of time in his life and he's confronting into sin by 320 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:56.599 Nathan the Prophet, and this psalms I'm fifty one is is a psalm that 321 00:22:56.680 --> 00:23:00.789 flows out of that and he starts it out by saying, have mercy on 322 00:23:00.869 --> 00:23:03.710 me, O God, according to your loving kindness, according to the multitude 323 00:23:03.029 --> 00:23:07.549 of your tender Mercies, blot out my transgressions. He goes on to say 324 00:23:07.589 --> 00:23:11.349 against you, this is the verse, four against you, and you only 325 00:23:11.470 --> 00:23:15.420 have a sinned and done this evil in your sight that you may be found 326 00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:18.859 just dust when you speak and blameless when you judge. So He's acknowledging this 327 00:23:19.140 --> 00:23:25.259 important point that when we sin it's not just against people, it's against God 328 00:23:25.539 --> 00:23:30.410 himself. In the sin of abortion, that sin is against that baby for 329 00:23:30.529 --> 00:23:33.329 sure, but more importantly even than that, it's a sin against God. 330 00:23:33.569 --> 00:23:37.490 And David acknowledged here in Psalm fifty one that the sin that he committed with 331 00:23:37.609 --> 00:23:41.680 Bathsheba and the murder of your eye and all of that. Was Not just 332 00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:45.119 a sin against your eye, it wasn't just a sin against Bathsheba. Wasn't 333 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.240 just a sin against Israel because he was their king, it was a sin 334 00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:52.839 against God himself. Then he goes on movement, moving down to it, 335 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.710 to an important point. Here. We're talking about for confession and forgiveness. 336 00:23:56.750 --> 00:24:02.430 Is this. It says, Old Lord, Open My lips and my mouth 337 00:24:02.549 --> 00:24:06.509 shall flow forth your praise, for you do not desire sacrifice, or else 338 00:24:06.509 --> 00:24:08.670 I would give it, and you do not delight and burnt offerings, the 339 00:24:08.789 --> 00:24:14.660 sacrifices of God or a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart. These, 340 00:24:14.779 --> 00:24:19.140 old God, you will not despise broken and college cry Contriarte, so 341 00:24:19.299 --> 00:24:25.369 construction, self righteous and self I know I'm going to go do this. 342 00:24:25.410 --> 00:24:30.009 Yeah, and then I will ask forgiveness. It means I'm a worm. 343 00:24:30.130 --> 00:24:33.609 I. Yeah, contrition is an acknowledgement that we've sinned against a holy God. 344 00:24:34.210 --> 00:24:38.480 Contrition is is is almost the picture of sackcloth and ashes. I mean 345 00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:42.480 there are those who in the Old Testament, who put on sackcloth and ashes 346 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:48.039 as an outward sign of contrition in their hearts over the sin of their people 347 00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:52.069 over their own sin and and you, God is not at God doesn't need 348 00:24:52.230 --> 00:24:57.109 us groveling in the dirt and all that's not about that. But God wants 349 00:24:57.150 --> 00:25:00.309 your heart. You know, that's what God has always been after. He's 350 00:25:00.309 --> 00:25:03.990 been after the human heart, and the human heart that is hard and just 351 00:25:04.190 --> 00:25:07.859 basically presumes upon the forgiveness of God, like you're going to forgive me. 352 00:25:08.500 --> 00:25:11.539 Is Not the heart that God is after. He's after a broken, like 353 00:25:11.619 --> 00:25:17.900 it says here, a broken and contrite heart. You will not despise. 354 00:25:17.980 --> 00:25:22.410 That's what God is after. Yeah, broken to yourself and your self desires 355 00:25:22.529 --> 00:25:26.730 and with a heart that is seeking God's desires. And so you're broken because 356 00:25:26.809 --> 00:25:32.769 you see how, Paul, how much you've fallen. Yeah, yeah, 357 00:25:32.769 --> 00:25:36.839 you know the attitude that a woman going into an abortion clineker anyone just in 358 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:38.119 general, that you know, I'm going to go in the Strip club and 359 00:25:38.359 --> 00:25:41.839 you know, God's forgiving God, so he'll forgive me. I'm going to 360 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:44.160 go and get drunk. I Know God's are forgiving God, so he's going 361 00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:48.119 to forgive me. That attitude is not one of contrition. That attitude is 362 00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:51.750 one of hardness, and that's, you know, James Chapter Four. God 363 00:25:51.789 --> 00:25:55.470 resists the proud. That is pride. That is pride, that is bringing 364 00:25:55.589 --> 00:25:57.630 pride into the equation. The Bible Says God resists that. Yeah, he 365 00:25:57.710 --> 00:26:02.710 does not delight in that. I think it's not recognizing that God is a 366 00:26:03.029 --> 00:26:07.579 just God and a wrathful God. Yeah, it shows a grave lack of 367 00:26:07.859 --> 00:26:11.700 the fear of the Lord. Exactly. And and and a lack of the 368 00:26:11.740 --> 00:26:12.980 fear of Lord. Listen, Bible tells us the fear of the Lord is 369 00:26:12.980 --> 00:26:15.779 the beginning of Wisdom. You'll be a why, as person, fear God? 370 00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:18.890 Right, right, and and something you said. He doesn't want US 371 00:26:18.890 --> 00:26:26.329 scrabbling. No, but he also doesn't want US continuing down a destructive path. 372 00:26:26.369 --> 00:26:30.690 Yeah, and any path that takes us away from God is a destructive 373 00:26:30.730 --> 00:26:33.440 path. And it's important to know that a third of abortions are repeat abortions. 374 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:37.400 Yeah, statistically, a third of those women are continuing in sin. 375 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:42.359 This is one of many abortions and if there doesn't come a point, at 376 00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:48.589 at some point, where someone is willing to speak truth about God's forgiveness and 377 00:26:48.789 --> 00:26:53.470 what true repentance looks like, they will continue that path. Yeah. Yeah, 378 00:26:53.470 --> 00:26:57.109 absolutely, took further and that's been one of the burdens on our hearts 379 00:26:57.230 --> 00:27:00.660 as we you know, we deal with this as far as women going into 380 00:27:00.700 --> 00:27:03.980 the abortion clinic with an attitude of you know, I'm going to do this 381 00:27:03.099 --> 00:27:07.220 and God's going to forgive me, and we've already talked about that. But 382 00:27:07.299 --> 00:27:11.299 we also deal with the women who've come out after the abortions and you know, 383 00:27:11.420 --> 00:27:15.579 God has really blessed us with some wonderful people in the afternoon teams because 384 00:27:15.579 --> 00:27:18.089 the way it's set up here in Charlotte, I don't know how it is 385 00:27:18.450 --> 00:27:22.130 in other cities, but basically the abortion patients come in in the morning. 386 00:27:22.410 --> 00:27:25.970 They're typically there by thirty two have their abortions. So we know that we're 387 00:27:26.009 --> 00:27:29.890 reaching those who are coming in for an abortion. In the afternoons, you 388 00:27:29.930 --> 00:27:33.640 know, after the abortionist gets there and sometime after you'll have the people who 389 00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:37.680 have come out who be either taking the abortion people or had a surgical abortion, 390 00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:41.119 and that that is a post aboordive woman directly after having had an abortion. 391 00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:47.750 Is the message of forgiveness important there, or should we take an attitude, 392 00:27:47.750 --> 00:27:51.589 and we might could justify take an attitude of you know, just hey, 393 00:27:51.869 --> 00:27:53.230 you wicked murder or look what you've done. I mean, could we 394 00:27:53.390 --> 00:27:57.190 say that? would be justified in saying that? Possibly, but would that 395 00:27:57.269 --> 00:28:03.339 be helpful? So it's almost like, like you said, the timing can 396 00:28:03.380 --> 00:28:07.500 be really important, the timing in the sense of what's the goal, and 397 00:28:07.660 --> 00:28:14.450 the goal is restoration. Ultimately, the goal is restoration of those people to 398 00:28:14.569 --> 00:28:21.450 God. Yeah, and how do you restore in in the person who's contemplating 399 00:28:21.529 --> 00:28:27.240 abortion but has not yet done it? You restore by really talking about the 400 00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:33.960 severity of that sin against God and you can't do that against your Lord and 401 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:38.880 against that baby. It is wrong, it is evil. Restoration of the 402 00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.430 woman who has already done it is, I think, many fold, and 403 00:28:44.430 --> 00:28:48.789 I think we discussed this already a little bit in another podcast. But first 404 00:28:48.789 --> 00:28:53.349 of all, a recognition of sin, which they at first when they come 405 00:28:53.390 --> 00:28:59.339 out the statistically they're going to feel relief. There's not going to be necessarily 406 00:28:59.420 --> 00:29:03.819 that sense of deep sin. So a recognition of sin and then leading them 407 00:29:03.980 --> 00:29:11.650 through the process by which you are restored back to God through confession, repentance 408 00:29:11.170 --> 00:29:15.730 and then faith suggestion of your life. We just practically speaking. Maybe some 409 00:29:15.849 --> 00:29:19.730 folks might ask. Okay, so what do you say to a woman that's 410 00:29:19.769 --> 00:29:22.890 just come out after having had an abortion. Yeah, how do you you 411 00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:26.759 know, how do you you know, not make a light of what she 412 00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:30.799 just died but also all for forgiveness. I mean by you. You know, 413 00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:33.839 you've shared your testimony, you've talked about it several times on the podcast 414 00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:40.230 about you yourself being post abord. You've had an abortion and you know someone 415 00:29:40.309 --> 00:29:42.390 what goes on and and you can speak to that and certainly you're not going 416 00:29:42.430 --> 00:29:47.190 to speak to that in a way that makes it look like there's no forgiveness, 417 00:29:47.390 --> 00:29:48.309 right. But how do you address that? I mean, yeah, 418 00:29:48.309 --> 00:29:52.589 I'm your standpoint well, and I think it is hard. I we train 419 00:29:52.710 --> 00:29:55.940 our afternoon teams and the first thing I tell them is this is a delicate 420 00:29:56.059 --> 00:29:59.420 balance that you're walking be. You want them to talk to you, you 421 00:30:00.660 --> 00:30:03.380 do want to be able to get the the literature into their hands that has 422 00:30:03.460 --> 00:30:08.490 post aboard of help, but you do want them to recognize that what they 423 00:30:08.650 --> 00:30:12.769 just did was wrong. And the overwhelming majority, I would say, of 424 00:30:12.849 --> 00:30:17.369 them that walk out say it's okay, I'm good. Yeah, but so 425 00:30:17.730 --> 00:30:21.799 typically, and not that I have the answer, but some of the things 426 00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:27.440 that I will call out are things like I know that many women deeply regret 427 00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:33.880 an abortion. And if you don't feel sorrow right now, you very well 428 00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:37.349 mate down the road and you may need help. Yeah, learning how to 429 00:30:37.509 --> 00:30:44.349 deal with that and I'll sometimes even say deal with this sin for yourself and 430 00:30:44.470 --> 00:30:48.910 before God. Yeah, so it's introducing, I hope gently, the idea 431 00:30:49.019 --> 00:30:55.859 that what you did there, cause it's grief and despair and is sin. 432 00:30:56.180 --> 00:31:03.779 Yeah, and if they say I'm good, I think we've talked about that 433 00:31:03.980 --> 00:31:08.769 in the past, I will often counter with well, I myself thought that 434 00:31:08.890 --> 00:31:12.289 at one point in my life as well, and I'll go into my own 435 00:31:12.369 --> 00:31:18.079 story and how that my immediate response was relief and thinking everything was now going 436 00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:22.240 to be fine. But as it turned out, the older and older I 437 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:27.799 got in the further the more I understood God and the depth of that sin, 438 00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:33.150 the actually the the greater the burden and pain and sorrow. Yeah, 439 00:31:33.230 --> 00:31:38.589 over that was. So that's how I deal with it. Yeah, I'm 440 00:31:38.670 --> 00:31:45.069 not sure what others say and I don't think that there's any magic thing that 441 00:31:45.190 --> 00:31:48.619 you can say, but I think the principle of what you say is don't 442 00:31:48.779 --> 00:31:53.019 gloss over the fact that what happened there was wrong. Yeah, yeah, 443 00:31:53.539 --> 00:31:59.339 you know, timing. You know, people might say timing is not that 444 00:31:59.500 --> 00:32:02.450 important. Even your volume actually can be important. You there's there's a proverb. 445 00:32:04.410 --> 00:32:06.769 Forget exactly where it's at, but I promise it's in there. Okay. 446 00:32:06.849 --> 00:32:10.130 They basically says if you bless your brother loudly early in the morning, 447 00:32:10.410 --> 00:32:15.289 it will be received as a curse. So there is a certain timing that. 448 00:32:15.490 --> 00:32:16.640 What is that telling us? Well, timing early in the morning. 449 00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:21.960 Volume actually can matter. Your tone of voice can matter, you know, 450 00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:25.279 whenever the words maybe necessarily don't matter so much. They do matter. I'm 451 00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:30.670 not saying they don't in the Bible certainly acknowledges correct words, words that are 452 00:32:30.910 --> 00:32:36.950 true to the word, are important. But your timing in your volume does 453 00:32:37.029 --> 00:32:43.109 matter. And there's a scripture. It's a messionic prophecy scripture. It says, 454 00:32:43.230 --> 00:32:46.099 speaking of Jesus, that he won't quench a smoking flax nor break a 455 00:32:46.220 --> 00:32:50.819 bruised read right. Well, that's saying is you know, basically those are 456 00:32:50.819 --> 00:32:53.579 already broken. Jesus is not going to break them even further. You Know 457 00:32:53.740 --> 00:32:57.579 God, God doesn't kick people when they're down. A matter of fact, 458 00:32:57.619 --> 00:33:00.529 the Bible tells us when we're down as when God is willing to raise us 459 00:33:00.529 --> 00:33:02.450 up. Hum will yourself under the mighty hand of God and he will lift 460 00:33:02.490 --> 00:33:05.769 you up. And so there's a certain sense that, you know, I've 461 00:33:05.769 --> 00:33:07.089 encounted, and that was certainly have encountered, a lot of women that come 462 00:33:07.130 --> 00:33:10.170 out they're just are getting proud. And how do you respond to that? 463 00:33:10.250 --> 00:33:14.279 Typically, you know what, I'll just bow my head and pray for them 464 00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:17.319 because typically, if they're coming out and they have an attitude of just bitterness 465 00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:21.720 and against me, because what it is is really the conviction they feel in 466 00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:23.920 themselves, that I'll might, I might steing them with a little bit of 467 00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:27.509 truth and say, you know what, you just killed your child. You 468 00:33:27.549 --> 00:33:30.109 should turn to the Lord. I might say something like that, but I'm 469 00:33:30.109 --> 00:33:31.990 not going to engage in some lengthy conversation with him. Typically, I'm going 470 00:33:31.990 --> 00:33:35.750 to pray for the Holy Spirit to do his work in their heart. But 471 00:33:35.829 --> 00:33:38.829 I haven't count I mean just it was goupled days ago. It was one 472 00:33:38.829 --> 00:33:42.380 of those days, you know, sometimes things just come in waves, and 473 00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:45.700 it was one of those days where we had like three women in a row 474 00:33:45.220 --> 00:33:49.619 that came out of the abortion clinic with I mean just ball it. They 475 00:33:49.660 --> 00:33:52.180 were just crying and their hearts were broken over what they had just done. 476 00:33:52.380 --> 00:33:54.730 Am I going to look at her and I'm going to say, look what 477 00:33:54.849 --> 00:33:59.490 you just did, you wicked center. No, she's already broken, right, 478 00:33:59.569 --> 00:34:04.130 she already acknowledges what she's done. She's totally ripe for the message of 479 00:34:04.210 --> 00:34:07.809 forgiveness. Yeah, that's the person then, that she needs to know. 480 00:34:08.090 --> 00:34:13.199 She's recognized her yeah, she's recognized that. It's broken her heart and, 481 00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:15.480 and I would say that very directly, I can see that your heart is 482 00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:19.800 broken. I am so sorry. Can we talk about there is help, 483 00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:22.079 there is hope, there is forgiveness. Yeah, can I share with you 484 00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:24.550 how you can find that? I mean one of the things I'm not going 485 00:34:24.590 --> 00:34:28.309 to say those. I'm not going to say you don't need to cry, 486 00:34:28.389 --> 00:34:30.590 you're forgiven, because that's not true. No, nice to cry. She 487 00:34:30.710 --> 00:34:34.909 needs to weep, and that to me is such a positive sign that she 488 00:34:35.150 --> 00:34:42.300 recognizes. And the danger there is you don't want someone becoming suicidal. Yeah, 489 00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:45.380 and and knowing from my own experience, you can it. It's horrific. 490 00:34:45.460 --> 00:34:50.340 When you recognize the depth of what you've done, it can take you 491 00:34:50.619 --> 00:34:53.530 over the edge. Yeah, so. So that message of forgiveness then, 492 00:34:53.769 --> 00:34:58.730 which is why the afternoon teams for us in our ministry is so important. 493 00:34:59.050 --> 00:35:01.690 That, and it's important for others who were doing sidewall counselor working in a 494 00:35:01.730 --> 00:35:07.360 pregnancy center understand this these points too. That's true. That's true because at 495 00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:12.840 that point the message of forgiveness made very well save that woman's life. Yeah, 496 00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:19.159 and also, rather than having her turn inward with that pain and to 497 00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:25.989 anger or self destruction or bitterness towards God, hopefully the the opposite will happen, 498 00:35:27.070 --> 00:35:30.750 that she will then release that pain and use it for God's glory. 499 00:35:30.909 --> 00:35:36.539 And that's what that's again, that restoration. The goal is restoration. Yeah, 500 00:35:36.820 --> 00:35:38.219 one of the things I say oftentimes is, you know, we don't 501 00:35:38.260 --> 00:35:44.179 begin with God until we've come to the end of ourselves, and sometimes it's 502 00:35:44.460 --> 00:35:49.500 something like doing something as horrible as an abortion that will bring us to the 503 00:35:49.539 --> 00:35:52.489 end of ourselves to show us, you know what, I'm not good right, 504 00:35:52.650 --> 00:35:57.449 I am not right, I am not going in the right direction and 505 00:35:57.570 --> 00:36:01.289 I need someone to rescue me. And so hopefully in that situation there's a 506 00:36:01.449 --> 00:36:07.360 gospel voice, there's a there's a proclaimer of truth on that sidewalk, at 507 00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:10.119 that pregnancy center, at that you know whatever you know. A lot of 508 00:36:10.199 --> 00:36:15.239 times God will break post aboordive women in a church service when somebody's preaching about 509 00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:20.710 abortion and they're broken and hopefully there's somebody there that will offer the message of 510 00:36:20.989 --> 00:36:27.150 forgiveness and rest ration in light of that sin and bring the hope that comes 511 00:36:27.389 --> 00:36:30.469 in the name of Jesus, not just glossing over it again, not just 512 00:36:30.550 --> 00:36:32.940 say well, you're forgiven, so it's okay. It's not okay. Yeah, 513 00:36:34.219 --> 00:36:37.739 but if you'll turn to the Lord Jesus. Now I've said this quite 514 00:36:37.739 --> 00:36:39.260 a few times. I member one lady. I may even shared this on 515 00:36:39.300 --> 00:36:42.820 the podcast before. May Have not, but there was. It's a couple 516 00:36:42.820 --> 00:36:45.300 of years ago. This young lady was coming out of the abortion clinic parking 517 00:36:45.380 --> 00:36:49.690 lot and she stopped in the driveway and I'm setting up, I'm actually taken 518 00:36:49.769 --> 00:36:52.849 down the sound system and putting it away, and she stops in the driveway 519 00:36:52.889 --> 00:36:55.170 and I hander one of our brochures, and that's an important point. Guys 520 00:36:55.210 --> 00:37:00.329 that have some kind of information. You have one that's called hope and healing 521 00:37:00.849 --> 00:37:04.039 and it has your testimony in and it's got the Gospel in there and it's 522 00:37:04.039 --> 00:37:07.360 talks about some of the risks and things associated with abortion and some of the 523 00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:10.480 things watch out for anyway, and has healing resources on it exactly. Yeah, 524 00:37:10.599 --> 00:37:14.440 local ministries, thing for MAG with and whatever. And so I handed 525 00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:17.110 her brochure and and she said, you know, I wish I would have 526 00:37:17.230 --> 00:37:20.789 listened to the truth you guys are telling me out here, as I was 527 00:37:20.869 --> 00:37:22.469 going in that she was back for a follow up, a point as I 528 00:37:22.469 --> 00:37:25.030 wish I would listen to the truth you guys are telling me out here instead 529 00:37:25.030 --> 00:37:28.630 of the lies they were telling me inside of there. And she says, 530 00:37:28.789 --> 00:37:30.860 I know God is a forgiving God, but I don't think he can ever 531 00:37:30.940 --> 00:37:34.619 forgive me for this. And I go right to first John. You know, 532 00:37:34.659 --> 00:37:37.300 the Bible says if we confess our sins, he's faithful and just forgive 533 00:37:37.340 --> 00:37:39.460 us our sins and it cleanse us from all in righteousness. And I'm not 534 00:37:39.500 --> 00:37:43.179 saying that just to all you have to do is say you're sorry and a 535 00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:46.530 knowledge. No, I'm saying that to say there is an availability of God, 536 00:37:46.690 --> 00:37:50.369 by His mercy, to forgive if you'll confess, as you were sin, 537 00:37:50.449 --> 00:37:52.050 if you will acknowledge and I went right for us. And you know, 538 00:37:52.090 --> 00:37:55.329 you've got to acknowledge that you've sinned against God and when you took that 539 00:37:55.409 --> 00:37:59.760 baby's life, you didn't just make a mistake, you didn't just do something 540 00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:01.719 to her. You and I I'm using a very in this conversation, a 541 00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:05.639 very soft tone, or not right. You know, I'm not, you 542 00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:07.920 know, condemning her in the sense. You know, I'm not being, 543 00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:10.639 you know, hard nosed in that sense, but I'm pointing to the Scripture 544 00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:15.349 and I'm pointing her to the Savior, and that's what we need to do. 545 00:38:15.750 --> 00:38:17.869 We've got a point people to the savior. We're not their savior, 546 00:38:19.269 --> 00:38:22.269 and so our first you know, we don't need to just pointed to some 547 00:38:22.349 --> 00:38:24.550 ministry. You want any just point him to some whatever. We need to 548 00:38:24.670 --> 00:38:29.300 point to the savior turned to the Lord, Jesus. Yeah, it turned 549 00:38:29.420 --> 00:38:35.380 Jesus and he is willing to forgive and to save all those who will truly 550 00:38:35.460 --> 00:38:37.619 turn to him. That's the message of the Gods and that is truly the 551 00:38:37.860 --> 00:38:44.250 only, the only real hope and healing that any post aboard of woman is 552 00:38:44.329 --> 00:38:47.530 going to find. They it is, you know, as probably as horrific 553 00:38:47.610 --> 00:38:52.409 as sin as a woman can do. Yeah, destroy her own child. 554 00:38:52.530 --> 00:38:55.280 And there is, there is never going to be in this world a way 555 00:38:55.320 --> 00:39:01.400 that you can rationalize that kind of pain. Yeah, away, but but 556 00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:07.360 Jesus can heal your heart. Yeah, can. Can even use that pain 557 00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:14.269 to to further his kingdom. Yeah. So that's a message that is critical 558 00:39:14.429 --> 00:39:20.750 for them to hear. And for forgiveness is is just essential. Yeah, 559 00:39:21.510 --> 00:39:23.900 absolutely, you know, and it's a message just like the message of the 560 00:39:24.099 --> 00:39:30.980 value of human life. The the message of forgiveness, healing and restoration, 561 00:39:30.219 --> 00:39:35.820 salvation that comes to Jesus Christ is the message that we need to be bringing 562 00:39:35.860 --> 00:39:38.730 in this realm. That's why this podcast is Gospel centered. Pro Life is 563 00:39:38.809 --> 00:39:43.530 because it's not just about saving the lives of babies. I don't say just 564 00:39:43.929 --> 00:39:47.369 to minimize that, because that's massively important, but it's also about bringing the 565 00:39:47.489 --> 00:39:52.960 Gospel, bringing the Gospel to these men and women at the abortion clinics. 566 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:57.440 Hopefully their heart is softened by the Gospel before they go in and they choose 567 00:39:57.480 --> 00:40:00.760 life for their baby based on their acceptance of the Gospel. We've seen that 568 00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:06.039 happen. Yeah, but if they've had the abortion and they come out our 569 00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:08.750 prayers that their heart is softened by the Gospel rather than hardened by their sin, 570 00:40:08.909 --> 00:40:14.070 because that can happen. It's softened by the Gospel and they turn to 571 00:40:14.150 --> 00:40:19.150 the Lord Jesus, because we're there bringing this message of healing, restoration, 572 00:40:19.349 --> 00:40:23.500 forgiveness of sin through Jesus Christ and you. That's our job as Christians to 573 00:40:23.659 --> 00:40:29.099 bring Christ in, especially to these very dark places. So you know, 574 00:40:29.179 --> 00:40:30.860 with that I think we'll wrap this thing up. We appreciate those who have 575 00:40:31.099 --> 00:40:36.769 listened and hopefully this podcast has been a blessing to you and you know, 576 00:40:36.849 --> 00:40:39.610 we'd love to hear any suggestions you have for other podcasts. We'd love to 577 00:40:39.650 --> 00:40:43.610 hear maybe just some feedback on this podcast. Is there a point that we 578 00:40:43.969 --> 00:40:45.489 that we just kind of glazed over and you want to hear a little more 579 00:40:45.489 --> 00:40:49.769 about? We'd certainly love to get into that a little deeper. Is there 580 00:40:49.889 --> 00:40:52.119 something you know someone you'd like for us to interview on the podcast? We'd 581 00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:54.360 love to do that. We'd like to hear back from you, so you 582 00:40:54.519 --> 00:41:00.199 email me. Deep Parks at cities for lifecom Vicky At v Cossi orgcom. 583 00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:02.199 Share these podcasts. You can share them on facebook you can share them, 584 00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:05.670 you know, I guess on twitter. Whatever. You get the link and 585 00:41:05.989 --> 00:41:10.670 and share that and leave us some feedback in the reviews on apple podcasts and 586 00:41:12.030 --> 00:41:15.070 on Google podcasts and other podcast services. There's a place where you can add 587 00:41:15.110 --> 00:41:17.699 a review and you can, you know, let us know how we're doing. 588 00:41:19.099 --> 00:41:22.659 But we do appreciate you, guys, for listening and a will. 589 00:41:22.179 --> 00:41:30.460 We'll talk to you guys real soon. God bless give me out left for 590 00:41:30.699 --> 00:41:43.929 love, give me our loft for gratitude. I know it will cost me 591 00:41:44.090 --> 00:41:51.840 my life. Nothing's too precious and some that you