What if they turn back to abortion?

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:06.440 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me, Lord, 2 00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:10.910 I am yours, and welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. 3 00:00:10.990 --> 00:00:14.230 In this episode we're going to talk about what to do if a mom that 4 00:00:14.349 --> 00:00:18.550 you thought chose life turned back on that decision and had an abortion. How 5 00:00:18.589 --> 00:00:27.620 do you minister to them? Stay tuned. I felt show passish, touch 6 00:00:28.059 --> 00:00:37.770 your heart. Use Me. Welcome back to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. 7 00:00:38.130 --> 00:00:42.329 Appreciate you guys joining us and we would appreciate if you guys would share 8 00:00:42.329 --> 00:00:45.210 this podcast with others. Let it be a blessing to them if it's a 9 00:00:45.250 --> 00:00:48.969 blessing to you. If it's not, then let us know. If these 10 00:00:49.009 --> 00:00:53.280 podcasts have not have been a blessing, we've covered subjects that have no application 11 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:56.799 to you, then please reach out and let us know what subjects we can 12 00:00:56.840 --> 00:00:59.880 cover that could apply to you. That would help you. But we trust, 13 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:03.950 because we've gotten some positive feedback, these episodes I have been a blessing 14 00:01:03.989 --> 00:01:08.189 and we're trying to answer questions that people have and we're trying to cover subjects 15 00:01:08.629 --> 00:01:12.510 they really come on our radar from our counselors, from our missionaries across the 16 00:01:12.549 --> 00:01:18.269 nation, from our local counselors from ourselves and our own experiences as things come 17 00:01:18.349 --> 00:01:22.180 up. Yeah, pretty much. You know, you get to write in 18 00:01:22.219 --> 00:01:26.739 an article and then we talk through it and then we do a podcast based 19 00:01:26.780 --> 00:01:29.939 on it. So that's what this is for. That's what the foundation of 20 00:01:30.019 --> 00:01:34.129 this podcast it is. It is. It's one of our missionaries that contacted 21 00:01:34.209 --> 00:01:37.890 us and was in the situation we're going to talk about today and said, 22 00:01:37.930 --> 00:01:40.530 I just don't know how to handle this. Yeah, what should I do? 23 00:01:40.890 --> 00:01:45.010 Yeah, so jumping right into it. What is that situation? Well, 24 00:01:45.329 --> 00:01:49.159 she had counseled a woman who chose life. Okay, counseled her extensively 25 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:53.040 for quite a it sounds like for a few weeks in fact, okay, 26 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:57.239 and the woman was very committed to life, going to church and everything, 27 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:02.069 and then all of a sudden chose to go have an abortion. Wow, 28 00:02:02.150 --> 00:02:07.310 and I don't think she told them until after she had had the abortion. 29 00:02:07.229 --> 00:02:14.389 And so that missionary there were two real issues. First of all, her 30 00:02:14.430 --> 00:02:19.379 own anger grief. She said she felt betrayed. She said she just wanted 31 00:02:19.419 --> 00:02:23.539 to condemn and scream. She was she was hurt, she was angry. 32 00:02:24.139 --> 00:02:28.939 She knew that would not be the proper response. But but that was where 33 00:02:28.979 --> 00:02:32.169 she was emotionally. She had poured into this woman and on the other hand 34 00:02:32.729 --> 00:02:36.689 she was thinking, well, what now? Weird, where do you go 35 00:02:36.930 --> 00:02:39.969 now? Do you just stop contact with this woman? What's what should we 36 00:02:40.009 --> 00:02:46.479 do? Yes, a Gospel centered prolife ministry. Yeah, well, first 37 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:50.400 and foremost, I'll say it might be easy to kind of look at the 38 00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:54.039 success stories and think that all the stories that we have our success stories. 39 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:58.710 We talked about that, as we talked about, I think, dealing with 40 00:02:58.830 --> 00:03:05.590 discouragement and when success is not always successful. I think was some been a 41 00:03:05.669 --> 00:03:07.789 while back since we did that. We talked a little bit about this. 42 00:03:07.870 --> 00:03:10.189 But this, this experience, is a reality that you're going to deal with. 43 00:03:10.229 --> 00:03:13.500 It is yes, if you're out there, babies are going to be 44 00:03:13.539 --> 00:03:16.219 saved, lives are going to be changed, praise God. But people, 45 00:03:17.379 --> 00:03:21.939 even if they choose life, if they don't surrender their lives to Jesus, 46 00:03:22.180 --> 00:03:27.020 m still our centers and they're still tempted to go back on that decision. 47 00:03:27.139 --> 00:03:31.849 So the fact that a woman chose life in that moment does not always solidify 48 00:03:31.930 --> 00:03:36.210 that choice right and it is not always mean that she's not going to turn 49 00:03:36.250 --> 00:03:38.889 back. That's why we talk so much about discipleship and getting them plugged into 50 00:03:38.889 --> 00:03:44.120 a mentor mentorship program, get them plugged into a church, because we want 51 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:50.719 to surround them with the body of Christ and be really with them and walk 52 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:53.639 with them so that when the devil comes with his lies, when the boyfriend 53 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:58.310 who pressured her to have the abortion comes back around with his lies, then 54 00:03:58.349 --> 00:04:00.750 we can help squash those lives with the truth of God and remind them that 55 00:04:00.870 --> 00:04:04.150 we're here for them, remind them of their choice for life. Right. 56 00:04:04.310 --> 00:04:09.069 And one of the things, another little addition to the story, was the 57 00:04:09.150 --> 00:04:14.419 woman then, if I did admit, yes, she had abhorted and kind 58 00:04:14.460 --> 00:04:17.540 of put on fake grief, it was like, but it was. It 59 00:04:17.699 --> 00:04:21.220 was sad, but it was really for the best, right. And so 60 00:04:21.540 --> 00:04:27.889 going back then, as though none of the counseling at all had it sunk 61 00:04:27.970 --> 00:04:30.970 in. No, this is not for the best. Killing your baby is 62 00:04:30.089 --> 00:04:35.410 not for the best and you knew that. So it was part of what 63 00:04:35.689 --> 00:04:43.079 that missionary that talked with me was grappling with. was there's no remorse. 64 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:46.879 Yeah, and that added to the anger that there was fake remorse. Right, 65 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:50.920 it was not more like the worldly sorrow. That's right, more like 66 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:56.470 a human just regret. Yeah, I regret that. I I regret that 67 00:04:56.550 --> 00:04:59.029 I made a good decision for myself. It's like it is. It makes 68 00:04:59.029 --> 00:05:01.910 it sense R now. It didn't add a godly sorrow. There's not a 69 00:05:02.110 --> 00:05:08.420 true repentance. Yeah, now. And so we thought about this, we 70 00:05:08.579 --> 00:05:12.899 talked about this and we wrote an article about this. But but one of 71 00:05:12.939 --> 00:05:15.379 the things that I know is true, because I've done a little bit of 72 00:05:15.420 --> 00:05:17.420 research about it, is, well, a lot of research about it actually, 73 00:05:17.459 --> 00:05:24.810 is that post abortive women, the overwhelming initial response is relief. Yeah, 74 00:05:24.889 --> 00:05:29.730 and that can last a year, maybe even more. Yeah, and 75 00:05:30.129 --> 00:05:36.000 what's interesting is so many of the pro choice studies about abortion post abortion say 76 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:41.279 the women feel relief, they don't suffer from abortion. But if you look 77 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:44.720 at those studies, most of them are very short term following the abortion. 78 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:49.910 They're not long term follow up studies. And the longer that a woman is 79 00:05:51.069 --> 00:05:58.389 from that act, it seems that the Morse grows, the grief grows, 80 00:05:58.509 --> 00:06:01.750 the recognition of what they did Gross, especially if they had had no children 81 00:06:02.149 --> 00:06:08.139 and then they have children and there comes then crashing down on them what they 82 00:06:08.259 --> 00:06:12.779 really did, or if they come, like in my situation, from no 83 00:06:13.060 --> 00:06:18.170 faith to coming to faith and then the recognition of what you did. So 84 00:06:19.410 --> 00:06:24.170 what our missionary was asking is a very important question and I think that there 85 00:06:24.209 --> 00:06:28.129 are strategies, there are things we can and should do, but I think 86 00:06:28.170 --> 00:06:31.879 it's important to understand that dynamic. Most of these women really do just feel 87 00:06:31.959 --> 00:06:39.759 relief and it's going to be difficult to bring them past that to from well, 88 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:43.560 the Bible talks about going from worldly grief to godly grief. Yeah, 89 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:48.790 and to a repentance of these to nation. When we oversimplify things, and 90 00:06:48.910 --> 00:06:53.949 this is what I have seen in some of the pro abortion studies and statements 91 00:06:54.790 --> 00:07:00.189 that talk about women don't regret abortions, is they oversimplify human emotions. Yeah, 92 00:07:00.269 --> 00:07:03.660 and they imagine, or at least try to try to pretend, like 93 00:07:04.339 --> 00:07:10.540 it's true that you can't have relief and regret at the same time, but 94 00:07:10.660 --> 00:07:14.259 you certainly can, and we know that right. Yeah, I mean even 95 00:07:14.339 --> 00:07:17.370 just simply like buyer's remorse is one of those things where you you have relief 96 00:07:17.449 --> 00:07:20.850 that you've bought this thing you've always wanted, then you got remorse because now, 97 00:07:20.850 --> 00:07:25.370 I gotta say for it's been that money right. So, just pro 98 00:07:26.009 --> 00:07:30.079 speaking, relief and regret can be can really happen to the same time, 99 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:33.839 alongside of each other, and so I will agree with pro aborts to women 100 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:38.199 feel relief. I won't say all women feel relief, because we know that 101 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:41.560 not to be true. So then we see immediate regret that it's probably more 102 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:45.269 the exception. Oh Yeah, I'm sure, but just to imagine then that 103 00:07:45.350 --> 00:07:48.509 I mean, I would say in one sense that woman who feels overwhelming regret 104 00:07:49.509 --> 00:07:54.670 probably feels a little bit of relief and maybe, by that same token, 105 00:07:54.750 --> 00:07:58.939 that woman that feels maybe your overwhelming relief, likely feels a little bit of 106 00:07:59.019 --> 00:08:03.060 regret. And I'll say that that has actually borne out in my experience and 107 00:08:03.259 --> 00:08:05.500 even what you're talking about with this young lady. It seems to be the 108 00:08:05.620 --> 00:08:09.259 case with her, because after all, it was just relief and abortion was 109 00:08:09.379 --> 00:08:13.410 no big deal. Why is she trying to justify it? I know, 110 00:08:13.529 --> 00:08:16.449 why is she? Why is she saying things like well, I know it 111 00:08:16.569 --> 00:08:20.209 was not the right decision, but it's for the best. Yeah, we 112 00:08:20.410 --> 00:08:24.449 know what she's doing is she's trying to convince herself that what she did was 113 00:08:24.529 --> 00:08:28.759 okay, that it wasn't wrong. And but even with that convincing like, 114 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:31.960 we're not convinced. We know that it's wrong and they know that it's wrong, 115 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:35.840 which is why you're saying something to the effect of God will forgive me 116 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:39.559 anyway, because that's what you hear a lot of times to yes, God 117 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:41.669 give me. It is it's not sin. What is he forgiving you? 118 00:08:41.750 --> 00:08:50.070 Of? Exactly exactly. And so first at first of all, help that 119 00:08:50.629 --> 00:08:56.740 counselor to work through her feelings, which you're very valid. She has been 120 00:08:56.820 --> 00:09:01.100 betrayed in a sense. This this woman made some sort of, if not 121 00:09:01.259 --> 00:09:05.700 a promise, a kind of a commitment the councilor at port or her heart 122 00:09:05.940 --> 00:09:11.129 into that little baby, and so it is natural to to be hurt, 123 00:09:11.370 --> 00:09:16.370 to be angry, to feel like what happened? Why did you do this? 124 00:09:18.970 --> 00:09:22.009 But I don't think that's where I don't know how much of that is 125 00:09:22.289 --> 00:09:26.320 is a good idea to share with the mom. Maybe some, maybe some, 126 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:28.320 would be okay to share with her. I've had those situations. I 127 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:33.440 know you have to, and in a lot of ways you've poured your life 128 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:37.480 out for them and you've dug for resources for them. You've they've Crod on 129 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:41.669 your shoulder, not on your telephone. Right. They've they've got things that 130 00:09:41.750 --> 00:09:45.509 you've talked with him through. You've kind of built a relationship and a fringe, 131 00:09:46.149 --> 00:09:48.590 right, and it is, in one sense a betrayaler. It could 132 00:09:48.629 --> 00:09:54.179 be if you've built that relationship over a period of time, and I think 133 00:09:54.259 --> 00:09:58.340 to voice that is not a bad thing. Yeah, and really I think 134 00:09:58.340 --> 00:10:01.779 it could bring that that real sense of conviction that you know what. This 135 00:10:01.820 --> 00:10:05.259 is a big deal. Yeah, yeah, as and it of course it 136 00:10:05.539 --> 00:10:09.210 should not be all about the counselor it. It should be about the baby, 137 00:10:09.889 --> 00:10:13.490 which she did the the that, but it is. It is a 138 00:10:13.850 --> 00:10:18.049 a and affront to the councilor who has has befriended her, and I know 139 00:10:18.169 --> 00:10:20.639 when it has happened to me, if I do have a relationship, I 140 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:24.159 care with this Satan year old I've been counsel seen forever. She's due now 141 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:28.000 in a month. I don't know what I'm going to talk about when rinch 142 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:30.879 finally has a baby, because she's so of so many of my stories. 143 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:35.029 But there were many, many periods of time when we'd been friends. Now 144 00:10:35.110 --> 00:10:39.830 I'd been counseling her hours and hours a day really for months, where then 145 00:10:39.909 --> 00:10:45.669 at like twenty weeks she said she was going to go aboard and my response 146 00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:50.580 was, I would call it righteous anger. At that point I I really 147 00:10:50.820 --> 00:10:56.179 gave very hard truths. Yeah, without really any hold spart, because I 148 00:10:56.580 --> 00:11:01.860 felt like, okay, I've been Nice, right, I've played the nice 149 00:11:01.940 --> 00:11:03.649 girl. Now it's found to lay down, you know, and I had 150 00:11:03.730 --> 00:11:09.169 said everything Ye, so many times and there comes the point that you just 151 00:11:09.529 --> 00:11:15.129 really need, I think, to to bring home the point what you're about 152 00:11:15.169 --> 00:11:16.370 to do, or what you have done, if you've gone through with it, 153 00:11:16.769 --> 00:11:22.519 is sin. Yeah, absolutely. So I want to say before we 154 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:26.960 jump into some of the the guess in depth right this conversation, there's a 155 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:30.480 couple of ways this could play out and particularly the angle we're coming from, 156 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:33.629 because this was the experience of the missionary you're talking about. Is You built 157 00:11:33.669 --> 00:11:39.590 a long term relationship, like she chose life one day and then you've walked 158 00:11:39.629 --> 00:11:43.750 with her, you've followed up with her, you've tried to connect her with 159 00:11:43.789 --> 00:11:46.029 the mentor, you've built some kind of relationship and over the course of weeks 160 00:11:46.340 --> 00:11:50.460 that she turns back. But it can also take place in the moment actually 161 00:11:50.460 --> 00:11:54.820 at the abortion center where you've poured everything out you could. You've taken them 162 00:11:54.820 --> 00:11:58.220 on board the Mobultra sound unit, or you've taken them to a pregnancy center 163 00:11:58.580 --> 00:12:01.450 and then you see the next day they've come right back to the abortion center. 164 00:12:01.529 --> 00:12:05.649 So we've had those situations as well. Yeah, so how do you 165 00:12:05.769 --> 00:12:09.129 deal with that? And when you see them, and I'm recalling a situation 166 00:12:09.250 --> 00:12:13.210 where this happened not terribly long ago, we poured out to this mother and 167 00:12:13.409 --> 00:12:16.000 we helped her when we showed her all the resources, all the things that 168 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:20.080 were available to her. Every issue, situation she was facing, there was 169 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:24.000 an answer for it, every reason to choose life. She chose life in 170 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:28.559 that particular day and then a couple days later she comes back and actually I 171 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:33.909 saw her going in and she actually hid behind one of the posts out in 172 00:12:33.029 --> 00:12:37.230 front of the latter abortion center. There's like these columns and behind that tie 173 00:12:37.269 --> 00:12:39.509 because from you, to hide from me. Yeah, she was ashamed. 174 00:12:39.669 --> 00:12:43.980 She was a shame and she apparently went in with the abortion, went in 175 00:12:45.019 --> 00:12:48.500 and had the abortion and she's driving out of the abortion center after having had 176 00:12:48.580 --> 00:12:52.620 the abortion. How do you deal with that? So, yeah, be 177 00:12:52.659 --> 00:12:56.220 a long term thing, can be a short term thing. What do you 178 00:12:56.340 --> 00:13:00.610 say, because we want to have this balance between grace and truth that we 179 00:13:00.690 --> 00:13:03.970 talked about, right, and we in a sense, in our righteous indignation, 180 00:13:05.169 --> 00:13:07.889 we want to lay the hammer down and say, you wicked person, 181 00:13:09.169 --> 00:13:11.960 look what you did. Yeah, but also we know that's not going to 182 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:15.879 be helpful, right, that's not going to be helpful at all for us 183 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:18.519 just to kind of unleash all of our anger. But it's also not going 184 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:22.559 to be helpful for us to just say it's no big deal, I'm sorry, 185 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:26.840 you made that. Mistakes and yeah, who what is helpful anyway? 186 00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:31.309 Don't say that just with this right off. Don't say that God loves you 187 00:13:31.350 --> 00:13:33.629 anyway, because then you've just made an allowance for sin. Is that true? 188 00:13:33.830 --> 00:13:37.750 You can say a true thing in a wrong time and it be taken 189 00:13:37.789 --> 00:13:43.019 completely in the direction Gott never intended it. Right. So, of course 190 00:13:43.299 --> 00:13:46.340 the best place, in my opinion, to go to answers, because I 191 00:13:46.539 --> 00:13:48.259 wrestled with this. We all wrestle with this. It's not easy, and 192 00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:52.220 don't don't get me wrong. Even as we give you these pointers, it 193 00:13:52.419 --> 00:13:56.090 doesn't make it easy. It's not easy, right, but I I went 194 00:13:56.169 --> 00:14:01.570 to the Bible and and thought, okay, is there any situation in the 195 00:14:01.690 --> 00:14:09.000 Bible where someone who is supposedly doing the right thing, a righteous human being, 196 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:15.960 who turns to sin then letting down all those around him? Yeah, 197 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:20.159 and then someone confronts him, and I thought of the story of David and 198 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:26.029 Beth Sheeba. Sure, and Nathan. Yeah, Nathan was amazing in and 199 00:14:26.350 --> 00:14:33.309 how he confronted David in in the aftermath of the sin with with Beth Sheeba 200 00:14:33.309 --> 00:14:37.899 and the murder of Beth Sheeba's husband. You're Riah. So what? Basically, 201 00:14:39.220 --> 00:14:41.340 what? What at this isn't, by the way, Second Samuel Twelve. 202 00:14:41.740 --> 00:14:43.860 Yes, for all of you. That maybe when I wasn't going to 203 00:14:43.899 --> 00:14:52.100 read the whole thing, although maybe we should. But Nay. Then tells 204 00:14:52.179 --> 00:14:56.649 David he knows what's happened with Best Sheba and Bath Sheba is now pregnant with 205 00:14:56.850 --> 00:15:01.450 David's child and Uriah, the husband of Beth Sheba, has been put in 206 00:15:01.529 --> 00:15:05.490 the front line so that he will be killed on purpose by David to cover 207 00:15:05.850 --> 00:15:11.080 the sin. And then David Takes Best Sheba into his home, has his 208 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:16.320 wife. And so Nathan is outraged and he the way he deals with it 209 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:20.629 is he tells us a story. Yeah, to David. Great story about 210 00:15:20.629 --> 00:15:26.590 a poor man who owns one lamb, I think. Yeah, and the 211 00:15:28.470 --> 00:15:33.789 family pet lamb, family pet lamb. It was very precious and I can't 212 00:15:33.830 --> 00:15:37.899 remember who the person power was. was he the king, someone that was 213 00:15:37.220 --> 00:15:41.019 a rich man, a rich man man? Yeah, far from him. 214 00:15:41.100 --> 00:15:45.820 And Kay in a position of power. Yeah, and he takes the poor 215 00:15:45.899 --> 00:15:50.370 man who's in a position of he was a rich guy. He didn't need 216 00:15:50.490 --> 00:15:54.409 the lamb, but he took the poor man's lamb. Yeah, he had 217 00:15:54.450 --> 00:15:56.850 a visitor come, even though he had lambs of his own. And Chris, 218 00:15:58.250 --> 00:16:02.529 the analogy is that near David had plenty of it hit so many whites, 219 00:16:02.529 --> 00:16:04.039 all right and all that. Why would you go and take someone else's 220 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:08.799 right? So he tells his story. Yeah, and doesn't say anything about 221 00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:11.960 you know, doesn't even use that the rich man was a king or something 222 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.720 to make it real obvious. He just tells the story and David is outraged, 223 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:21.470 HMM and and and says that this rich man must be severely punished. 224 00:16:21.549 --> 00:16:25.149 How could he do this? How can we take from the poor guy who 225 00:16:25.190 --> 00:16:29.669 had just this one little lamb? How could he take that when he had 226 00:16:29.789 --> 00:16:36.700 so much and Nathan then says that man is you. Yeah, and that 227 00:16:37.019 --> 00:16:41.580 was the finger points the thing, that man is you. Doesn't, you 228 00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:48.730 know, pour out anger or name calling, just that simple statement that man 229 00:16:49.330 --> 00:16:57.610 is you, yeah, and that convicts David powerfullet. So Nathan used a 230 00:16:57.730 --> 00:17:03.519 principle that Jesus uses and I think we could use frequently, and I think 231 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:08.759 we do actually in ministry, and that is the power of story. Yeah, 232 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:14.440 and parallel stories and allergies. He's yeah, those are so powerful. 233 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:15.670 Now we might not be able to come up with that. I mean this 234 00:17:15.829 --> 00:17:19.470 was brilliant. I should I thought when Nathan came up with it was inspired 235 00:17:19.509 --> 00:17:22.150 by the Lord, inspired by God. So we you know, yes, 236 00:17:22.230 --> 00:17:26.710 I can we be inspired by God and dealing with women, I'm of course 237 00:17:26.829 --> 00:17:33.180 we can, but there are certainly testimonies that that we can share that maybe 238 00:17:33.579 --> 00:17:37.380 can help that woman to recognize, yeah, what she has done, the 239 00:17:37.579 --> 00:17:45.130 depth of what she has done, maybe further humanizing and personalizee. Maybe what 240 00:17:45.250 --> 00:17:49.769 that baby went through or what that baby has missed to out on. Yeah, 241 00:17:51.130 --> 00:17:56.289 absolutely, and I think it given the proper scenario, sharing this very 242 00:17:56.450 --> 00:18:02.079 story, yeah, with a mom, yeah, who has had an abortion 243 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:06.200 and has not felt the conviction of it. Yeah, and then going right 244 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:10.759 to Psalm fifty one, which I believe is the outflow of this story of 245 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:15.029 David, of his brokenness and contrition before the Lord for his sin. When 246 00:18:15.069 --> 00:18:18.309 Nathan points to finger and says that guy is you right right, David breaks 247 00:18:18.390 --> 00:18:22.470 down in repentance and Psalm fifty one, yes, can read that, but 248 00:18:23.069 --> 00:18:26.940 I believe that's David's Song of repentance to God. You're right at you and 249 00:18:27.019 --> 00:18:30.460 you alone of a sin and none one is evil in your side. That's 250 00:18:30.460 --> 00:18:33.339 what he says in some fifty one. Yeah, and and talk going through 251 00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:38.779 that psalm with a mom and helping her to recognize she clearly sinned against the 252 00:18:38.900 --> 00:18:44.609 child, but ultimately that sin was against God himself. Yeah, and in 253 00:18:44.730 --> 00:18:49.170 rebellion, and I think that is the important thing that we're aiming at when 254 00:18:49.210 --> 00:18:52.170 we're looking for because what are we looking for? We're looking for repentance, 255 00:18:52.210 --> 00:18:56.720 right. We're not just looking for sorrow, we're not just looking for tears. 256 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:00.480 Listen, people crowed tears for all kinds of things, but we're looking 257 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:04.599 for godly sorrow. We're looking for what it says in Psalm fifty one, 258 00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:08.880 what David said. Yeah, is it. They acknowledge that they send against 259 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:14.029 God, and I think it's important for us in these conversations. Then we 260 00:19:14.109 --> 00:19:18.470 can do it graciously. I don't know that we. You have to be 261 00:19:18.789 --> 00:19:21.309 out of this the Holy Spirit. You have to do the best you can 262 00:19:21.390 --> 00:19:23.900 to discern. I can't give you an exact formula of when you lay down 263 00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:27.460 the hammer or anything like that. Yeah, let the scripture do its work. 264 00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:32.180 Share them, share with them Psalm fifty one. If they're coming back 265 00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:34.619 to you for whatever reason, you have to ask yourself if this young lady 266 00:19:34.859 --> 00:19:38.089 had an abortion and it was no big deal and she's wanting to move on 267 00:19:38.170 --> 00:19:41.369 with her life, why is she even reaching back out to the counsel right 268 00:19:41.609 --> 00:19:45.769 right, why is she even responding? Because you'd think she would just block 269 00:19:45.809 --> 00:19:48.329 her and we some of them did. What have some of them, dude? 270 00:19:48.369 --> 00:19:52.960 Some of them do do that. So to me, I think either 271 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:57.400 divinely inspired or just inspired by our own conviction and look grasping for something, 272 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:02.480 she reads back out to this this counselor back out of this missionary. But 273 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:06.519 I think in those situations, shoot the scripture over to him. We just 274 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:08.670 please read Psalm fifty one. That's all. I'm asking for you, you 275 00:20:08.750 --> 00:20:11.430 know. Yeah, just let the scripture do it's work. You don't have 276 00:20:11.549 --> 00:20:15.869 to be the bad guy. Let us let the scripture be the good guy 277 00:20:15.990 --> 00:20:21.430 that brings the bad, the the want say the bad truth, but the 278 00:20:21.460 --> 00:20:26.059 the reality of their accountability to God, and let let the Holy Spirit do 279 00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:32.220 his job. Right. I think in counseling counselors that go through that, 280 00:20:32.940 --> 00:20:37.609 it would be good to help them to to be able to state what is 281 00:20:38.329 --> 00:20:41.890 their hope, yeah, of what they are going to achieve with this woman 282 00:20:42.049 --> 00:20:45.890 at this point. Right. And so it's, you know, it's a 283 00:20:45.250 --> 00:20:53.039 Nathan's hope was ultimately restoration, yeah, of David Back to God. But 284 00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:57.519 he then he did go on in that story about he did tell him there 285 00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:02.000 are consequences. You will not die. Yeah, you will not die, 286 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:04.589 but the baby will. Yeah, he was very honest about that. And 287 00:21:06.390 --> 00:21:11.069 Yeah, I think what he's saying there is that, basically he's helping David 288 00:21:11.109 --> 00:21:15.349 to understand. I think this is part of what broke David Down, right, 289 00:21:15.829 --> 00:21:21.220 is your sin has an effect on other people. Do you understand that 290 00:21:21.380 --> 00:21:26.059 your sin just affected an innocent person? Now we can get into the theological 291 00:21:26.740 --> 00:21:32.539 discussion about I mean God not into killing babies. So how does that work? 292 00:21:32.740 --> 00:21:36.769 The God caus this baby to die? Or was there some sickness and 293 00:21:37.410 --> 00:21:40.049 the devil do it and God allow listen, I don't want to get into 294 00:21:40.049 --> 00:21:42.650 all of that less maybe for another podcast, yeah, or for another whole 295 00:21:44.289 --> 00:21:48.799 somebody else to do that podcast and episode about that. But the fact is 296 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:53.480 David was, in some measure at least, a soft hearted guy and David 297 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:56.920 was a guy after justice. I mean, look at the story of David 298 00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:00.240 and Goliath. He comes out on the battlefield there and here's this this goliath 299 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:04.430 mocking the children of God and mocking God himself, and David's like, because 300 00:22:04.470 --> 00:22:08.750 he's a man that wants justice, who's doing something about this uncircumcised Philistine? 301 00:22:08.829 --> 00:22:11.990 Right, this, this is unjust. He speaking against the Living God. 302 00:22:12.309 --> 00:22:17.259 Is there not a cause? Right? And so Nathan and God Rue. 303 00:22:17.259 --> 00:22:22.140 Nathan plays on that, your sense of justice, and you can play on 304 00:22:22.220 --> 00:22:25.180 that with these mothers and help them to understand that what they've done is an 305 00:22:25.220 --> 00:22:29.180 unjust thing. They just took the life of another human being. Yeah, 306 00:22:29.539 --> 00:22:32.410 they're guilty before God for it. Well, as you were saying that, 307 00:22:32.569 --> 00:22:36.529 and actually it didn't even occur to me, which is kind of crazy till 308 00:22:36.529 --> 00:22:41.410 you said that. But this is exactly a perfect story, because the result 309 00:22:41.690 --> 00:22:48.720 of the sin of David and well, best she but, but best she 310 00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:52.839 but was possibly forced into it, but of David, was a baby dies. 311 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:57.829 Yeah, that was the consequence, and that's exactly what happened in an 312 00:22:57.869 --> 00:23:03.549 abortion. The sins of the mother and the father's usually has led to the 313 00:23:03.710 --> 00:23:08.470 death of an innocent human being. Yeah, so it might be a really, 314 00:23:08.789 --> 00:23:15.140 really good story to share with them. Yeah, absolutely, but now 315 00:23:15.259 --> 00:23:18.099 we'll say this that I don't I don't know that you talked about this in 316 00:23:18.220 --> 00:23:22.019 this article necessarily, but I do want to talk just for a second to 317 00:23:22.140 --> 00:23:27.289 the counselor and to them emotionally. Yeah, because what can happen in those 318 00:23:27.329 --> 00:23:32.170 situations, and I'm sure that's what happened with our missionary that you're talking about. 319 00:23:32.170 --> 00:23:33.529 I know it's happened to you. To happen to me, it's happen 320 00:23:33.609 --> 00:23:37.890 everyone who's been involved in these kind of situations where you you a mom has 321 00:23:37.890 --> 00:23:41.559 chosen life, praise God, things are moving forward and she turns back on 322 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:45.759 it. You Begin to beat yourself up and the devil begins to play tricks 323 00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:48.680 in your mind. All you should have did this, you shouldn't have did 324 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:52.480 that, you should have said this, you should have said that you're not 325 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.430 good enough to be out there, because if you were, they wouldn't have 326 00:23:56.630 --> 00:24:00.069 went back on their decision for life or you whatever. You didn't use the 327 00:24:00.069 --> 00:24:04.269 right scripture. You did what? Who knows? There's lies come across your 328 00:24:04.589 --> 00:24:08.390 your mind and in your heart, and the whole idea and the whole intention, 329 00:24:08.430 --> 00:24:12.019 I believe, from the devil is to discourage you and to get you 330 00:24:12.140 --> 00:24:15.339 off of mission right, right. So I just want to encourage you, 331 00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:18.900 guys who listen. If you're out there, you're probably going to deal with 332 00:24:18.980 --> 00:24:22.619 this at some point and if you've already dealt with this, would encourage you. 333 00:24:22.339 --> 00:24:27.890 You can never say everything just right, you can never do everything just 334 00:24:29.130 --> 00:24:32.930 right. We live in a fallen world where fallen human beings. So to 335 00:24:33.049 --> 00:24:36.130 try to put a weight on yourself that God doesn't put, because God doesn't 336 00:24:36.130 --> 00:24:38.279 put the weight on you, the burden on you to say everything exactly right 337 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:41.279 all the time. What does God put on us? He puts on us 338 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:45.240 so seeds and water seats. That's right. Plant seeds, that's that's the 339 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:49.799 best you can do. You literally cannot plant a seed and force that seed 340 00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:52.190 to come out of the ground right. That's, I believe, why the 341 00:24:52.230 --> 00:24:56.950 analogies there in scripture that we're planting seats, because there's nothing you can do 342 00:24:56.109 --> 00:25:00.390 to make that seed grow. Yep, except for putting water on it. 343 00:25:00.470 --> 00:25:03.309 But you even if you put water on it's no promise it's going to grow. 344 00:25:03.349 --> 00:25:06.869 Right, it's up to that seed and it's up to the Lord. 345 00:25:06.950 --> 00:25:10.380 So we have to leave these situations in the hands of the Lord. We 346 00:25:10.500 --> 00:25:12.740 have to say, okay, I've done my due diligence, I've done the 347 00:25:12.900 --> 00:25:18.019 best I can. Could you have said things better? Sure, you always 348 00:25:18.140 --> 00:25:22.009 can. In our you know, you've been doing this or eight years. 349 00:25:22.009 --> 00:25:26.769 I've been doing this for fifteen years. I still from time to time go 350 00:25:26.970 --> 00:25:30.569 back and even conversations where a mom has chosen life, I'll go back and 351 00:25:30.650 --> 00:25:32.650 think, man, why did I say that? I should have said this, 352 00:25:32.849 --> 00:25:34.960 and and try to beat myself up on what I did and what I 353 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:40.200 didn't do. Don't do that, guys. Don't beat yourself up. Just 354 00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:44.559 trust the Lord ultimately, again your planning seeds, trust the Lord that he'll 355 00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:48.240 give the increase and that the words that you said, even though she didn't 356 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:52.829 choose life on that particular day. Maybe she turned back on her decision for 357 00:25:52.950 --> 00:25:56.509 life on that particular day, but down the road those seeds that you've sewn 358 00:25:56.950 --> 00:26:00.390 and the truth that you've spoken, God's word, doesn't return void, it's 359 00:26:00.470 --> 00:26:04.380 gonna have some kind of effect. It will and and that goes for not 360 00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:08.259 only the initial discussions that you had where she chose life, that you're planning 361 00:26:08.380 --> 00:26:11.660 seat, but the same is true with the discussions you're going to have her 362 00:26:11.900 --> 00:26:17.259 after she has aborted and you're trying to figure out what to say again. 363 00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:21.650 It's going to be difficult and you may not say everything perfectly, but just 364 00:26:21.849 --> 00:26:26.450 remember you are planting seats. And I think I may have mentioned this recently 365 00:26:26.569 --> 00:26:30.170 in one of our podcast recently, and it did just happen just to I 366 00:26:30.289 --> 00:26:34.519 think it was last week, maybe the week before, where a mom had 367 00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:41.319 abhorted. She every okay, I'm not sure I've talked about this, but 368 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.680 one of our counselor's, Mary Beth, had poured in to this mom and 369 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:51.950 the mom had even gone to the pregnancy resource center that works with us. 370 00:26:52.029 --> 00:26:55.789 She had seen her baby, she she had gotten all the resources. She 371 00:26:55.950 --> 00:27:02.460 was excited. She had chosen life and then turned around and aborted. And 372 00:27:02.859 --> 00:27:07.380 Mary Beth beat herself up. Yeah, the the sonographer at help, Monroe 373 00:27:07.579 --> 00:27:10.019 beat herself up. They all, they all fell. Oh, what could 374 00:27:10.059 --> 00:27:11.059 we have done when we do wrong? Those, you know, all that 375 00:27:11.220 --> 00:27:18.849 stuff, devastated. Yeah, and that mom showed up again just a week 376 00:27:18.890 --> 00:27:23.609 ago, two weeks ago, and looking for us because she remembered. She's 377 00:27:23.650 --> 00:27:27.769 pregnant again, in an unplanned pregnancy. Again, again abortion, vulnerable. 378 00:27:27.809 --> 00:27:33.160 Yeah, but this time she said I'm going to let you help me and 379 00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:41.200 she expected anger. Yeah, and and the same sonographer, Kelly, was 380 00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:44.430 the one that happened to be there. Yeah, the day that she returned 381 00:27:44.470 --> 00:27:52.029 and Kelly just poured love into her, showed her her baby. I was 382 00:27:52.150 --> 00:27:56.589 the counselor, and she said, thank you so much for forgiving me a 383 00:27:56.670 --> 00:28:03.700 second chance. So she had been convicted from even though she had gone back 384 00:28:03.779 --> 00:28:10.700 and aborted, the relationship that was established in the seats that were planted brought 385 00:28:10.859 --> 00:28:15.890 her back to us with the next pregnancy. Yeah, and and I guess 386 00:28:17.049 --> 00:28:21.250 that's a testimony to do exactly exactly what I'm talking about, exactly. Yeah, 387 00:28:21.289 --> 00:28:26.519 but even given that scenario. She received love. Right, but when 388 00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:30.599 we say that, most people are thinking she received love, that means we 389 00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:33.039 were just nice to her. Okay, now I want to tell you what 390 00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:36.839 she received. So, because that is Acun't know what your that's what modern 391 00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:40.319 Christians being. So they're when when they say we need to speak the truth 392 00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:42.869 and love. Right. What? What? Most Modern Christians just be nice. 393 00:28:42.910 --> 00:28:47.589 Let's just be nicey right, and listen Jesus in a lot of ways. 394 00:28:47.869 --> 00:28:49.509 I'm sharing this before we started the pod. Guess, yeah, Jesus 395 00:28:49.630 --> 00:28:53.750 was not nice. But we ask ourselves, did Jesus love the Pharisees? 396 00:28:53.789 --> 00:28:59.019 He loved them with a with a deep love. He wept over Jerusalem, 397 00:28:59.059 --> 00:29:03.420 in their obstinates and and he loved them and he spoke the truth to them. 398 00:29:03.700 --> 00:29:06.140 Now, yeah, I'm not saying these women are Pharisees, but what 399 00:29:06.220 --> 00:29:08.660 I am saying is that to show love is not always to be nice, 400 00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:14.690 nicey Nice, but it is to show the kindness of the Lord which leads 401 00:29:14.690 --> 00:29:18.809 us to repentance and to bring the truth to bear, like right, reality. 402 00:29:19.009 --> 00:29:22.650 What they've done? So right. So, so, when she when 403 00:29:22.769 --> 00:29:27.119 she came on and I didn't hear about the prior abortion till near the end 404 00:29:27.799 --> 00:29:32.920 of the session. So clearly she was not proud of it, not not 405 00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:37.519 happy about it, knew knew it was sin and when she revealed that, 406 00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:41.750 then I'm up for sharing the Gospel. It's kind of they've done the medical 407 00:29:41.789 --> 00:29:45.670 stuff, I've shared the resources. Made sure she knew that no matter where 408 00:29:45.670 --> 00:29:48.109 she stood with God, it didn't affect whether we would help her. But 409 00:29:48.670 --> 00:29:56.059 shared the Gospel and and she had made a common along the lines of at 410 00:29:56.140 --> 00:29:59.259 that time I had to do what I did. Yeah, with the abortion. 411 00:30:00.059 --> 00:30:07.410 So her heart had not yet been changed really regarding the sin of what 412 00:30:07.569 --> 00:30:10.890 she had done. And that was the first thing that I talked about then 413 00:30:10.930 --> 00:30:15.130 before sharing the Gospel, was the humanity of that baby, all the things 414 00:30:15.210 --> 00:30:19.450 the baby would never know and some pretty hard truths. I spoke it kindly, 415 00:30:21.210 --> 00:30:26.039 with the tone of voice that wasn't angry, but but I wanted her 416 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:30.400 to I wanted her to come to say it was wrong. You're right, 417 00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:34.599 it was sin against against that baby and against God. And she did and 418 00:30:34.829 --> 00:30:37.950 she ultimately, I can't remember. There was a whole slew of women, 419 00:30:38.029 --> 00:30:45.029 fortunately during that time period that came to the Lord and I can't remember if 420 00:30:45.029 --> 00:30:49.339 she was one of them. I think she was, but she she clearly 421 00:30:49.420 --> 00:30:56.460 left with a greater understanding of the sin of abortion. Right, and when 422 00:30:56.539 --> 00:31:00.180 I when I said, no matter what you face in the future, if 423 00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:04.730 you were to have an unplaying pregnancy, first of all you shouldn't because you're 424 00:31:04.730 --> 00:31:07.769 not going to have sex outside of merit anymore. Right. But but if 425 00:31:07.930 --> 00:31:15.089 you were, is is abortion and ever a valid option? And she said 426 00:31:15.130 --> 00:31:18.160 now, yeah, no, and she she was very sorrowful. Yeah, 427 00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:25.519 at that point, when we talk about healing and when we talk about restoration 428 00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:32.519 and we we talked about salvation, we haven't understand that ultimately, healing, 429 00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:33.869 and we're going to talk about that in just a second, the steps to 430 00:31:33.990 --> 00:31:40.710 healing. Yeah, healing doesn't happen to people that don't realize that they're not 431 00:31:40.869 --> 00:31:44.309 healed. Right, they don't. They need healing. It's like sack. 432 00:31:44.430 --> 00:31:47.619 You Know Ray Comfort, who we use his model of sharing the Gospel, 433 00:31:47.619 --> 00:31:48.980 which is, I believe, the Biblical model of in the Gospel, which 434 00:31:49.019 --> 00:31:53.900 is Jesus, is way of sharing the gospel, sharing the reality of why 435 00:31:53.980 --> 00:31:59.299 he came. Yeah, and you, Ray Comfort talks about if you go 436 00:31:59.339 --> 00:32:02.890 into the doctor's office and you know the doctor doesn't talk about you know you've 437 00:32:02.930 --> 00:32:07.890 got blue spots on your face and you've got horns grown out of your head, 438 00:32:07.170 --> 00:32:10.650 and the doctor talks about everything else but those symptoms that you have outwardly 439 00:32:10.890 --> 00:32:16.079 and doesn't talk about the actual problem, then he's not doing you any good. 440 00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:21.400 Right. The doctor has to talk about the symptoms of sickness. He 441 00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:25.400 has to talk about also the consequences of not dealing with this sickness. So 442 00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:29.519 if you have this sickness with blue spots on your face and horns grind your 443 00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:30.990 head, that's not the example that ray comfort gives, but it's something that 444 00:32:31.309 --> 00:32:37.109 to that effect. Yeah, if you show if you continue in this with 445 00:32:37.309 --> 00:32:40.950 this disease and don't take this cure, people likely to take the cure. 446 00:32:40.990 --> 00:32:45.380 And so that's why we talk about sharing the Gospel, but before that, 447 00:32:45.059 --> 00:32:51.099 sharing the law. Right, that's really sharing the truth that you're sick and 448 00:32:51.299 --> 00:32:53.420 you need a healer. Yeah, and that healer is Jesus. You're sick 449 00:32:53.500 --> 00:32:57.140 and you need a physician. His name is Jesus, and they're not going 450 00:32:57.220 --> 00:33:00.289 to get the idea why they need that. In in your little doctor analogy, 451 00:33:00.369 --> 00:33:02.329 it'd be like the doctor going up to him and not talking about the 452 00:33:02.450 --> 00:33:06.609 disease at all and just saying, let me cut open your stomach to pause, 453 00:33:06.730 --> 00:33:08.970 yeah, to play your intestines and remove a portion of them. You're 454 00:33:09.049 --> 00:33:13.559 like, what know, because you have no idea that there is something on 455 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:15.960 your intestine that is going to kill you, that cancer, whatever, and 456 00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:22.279 so you can't bring the remedy before they know there's an illness. Yeah, 457 00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:27.269 there's some sickness, there's and that sickness is sin. Yeah, and especially 458 00:33:27.309 --> 00:33:30.029 when we're dealing with a woman that's had an abortion. Right, if we 459 00:33:30.190 --> 00:33:36.829 talk about everything else we don't talk about abortion, then we're not talking about 460 00:33:36.869 --> 00:33:39.069 the thing that, ultimately, before God, brings our guilt. Right. 461 00:33:39.190 --> 00:33:43.140 That's why she's come to us and that's why we've connected with her in light 462 00:33:43.259 --> 00:33:46.140 of her pregnancy, because it's what we're out there doing. We're talking about 463 00:33:46.579 --> 00:33:50.180 reaching out to women who are bringing going into the passion center. Right. 464 00:33:51.059 --> 00:33:53.299 So, if we talk about everything else but that abortion, then we're like 465 00:33:53.420 --> 00:33:58.410 a doctor that's talking about everything else but that cancer that he can see very 466 00:33:58.490 --> 00:34:01.130 plainly is going to destroy that person's life. Yeah, and the same is 467 00:34:01.210 --> 00:34:07.250 true of sexual impurity. Is is you can't just dance around that issue when 468 00:34:07.289 --> 00:34:09.760 you're dealing with a women coming for an abortion because, as most of them 469 00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:16.159 are in some sort of sexual sin. Yeah, and if you don't address 470 00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:22.079 that, then they'll just be back again. That is a major part of 471 00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:27.070 why people are showing up for abortions. They and so that it sets outside 472 00:34:27.070 --> 00:34:30.590 of marriage wasn't a thing, then abortion would not be a thing. Yeah, 473 00:34:30.710 --> 00:34:34.750 I mean pretty much, if you we go statistics, the overwhelming majority 474 00:34:34.789 --> 00:34:38.179 of people that come to abortion centers or committing sexual sin, right. Yeah, 475 00:34:38.300 --> 00:34:43.099 yeah, so let's talk about these steps to healing. Yeah, yeah, 476 00:34:43.619 --> 00:34:46.500 the first step, like we talked about, is the conviction of sin. 477 00:34:46.579 --> 00:34:50.659 Yeah, it's matter of fact. That's what the Bible says the Holy 478 00:34:50.780 --> 00:34:54.170 Spirit, that's what his job is. Jesus says that the spirit comes to 479 00:34:54.250 --> 00:35:00.130 convict the World Concerning Sin, righteousness and judgment. Was the Holy Spirit doing? 480 00:35:00.010 --> 00:35:04.170 For the Christian he's bringing comfort, but for the center, for the 481 00:35:04.250 --> 00:35:08.039 world, he's bringing the conviction of sin to conduct the World Concerning Sin and 482 00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:15.039 righteousness and judgment. So just this idea that we need to to dance around 483 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:16.920 the issue of abortion, to we need to be nice and not talk about 484 00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:21.239 it is a false notion. We need to be plain, we need to 485 00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:23.190 be kind. That is a fruit of the spirit. By the way, 486 00:35:23.550 --> 00:35:27.190 niceness is not a fruit of the spirit. It's kind of like a worldly 487 00:35:27.269 --> 00:35:34.030 perversion of of kindness, I think. And kindness sometimes leads to us being 488 00:35:34.070 --> 00:35:39.420 a little forthright and a little outwardly might appears being kind of mean or snarky 489 00:35:39.420 --> 00:35:44.139 or whatever. It's not our motivation. Motivation is kindness. We want to 490 00:35:44.139 --> 00:35:47.940 be kind to them by telling them you got cancer right and in this situation, 491 00:35:49.739 --> 00:35:52.969 your sin, the cancer is abortion. When you do with that, 492 00:35:52.610 --> 00:35:57.690 and we need to really plainly lay it out, why is abortion sin? 493 00:35:58.250 --> 00:36:01.530 It's not sin because it's a it's a bad medical decision, you know. 494 00:36:01.969 --> 00:36:06.760 It's not sin just because the doctors that do it or bad people. That's 495 00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:09.280 true, but it's not just sin because of that. It's sin because that 496 00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:14.719 baby is made in God's image, loved and known by him, and that 497 00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:21.110 baby has been mercially, mercilessly killed by what you did, by your involvement 498 00:36:21.150 --> 00:36:24.190 in the abortion of your son or your daughter, and I think that's important 499 00:36:24.230 --> 00:36:27.909 for them to know, very important, and I love how you stated it. 500 00:36:28.110 --> 00:36:31.150 I hear all the time out there. Please stop. You're making her 501 00:36:31.190 --> 00:36:37.340 feel bad, right, and my response is that's good, because someone's killing 502 00:36:37.380 --> 00:36:42.900 another person, they should feel bad, should feel back. That's all always 503 00:36:42.980 --> 00:36:46.809 my response. She should feel bad. What she's doing is evil, wrong, 504 00:36:46.929 --> 00:36:52.250 sinful, against God, against that child, even against yourself, because 505 00:36:52.250 --> 00:36:55.250 that's not what a woman is designed to do and it will destroy a part 506 00:36:55.250 --> 00:36:59.650 of her to do that. So conviction of sin. Yeah, that's number 507 00:36:59.650 --> 00:37:01.320 one. Right. Yeah, and how do we bring the conviction of sin? 508 00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:06.280 Just, very simply, we like we shared Psalm fifty one. That's 509 00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:09.679 a good way to start. Shures a great start, scripture laying out the 510 00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:15.599 the humanity, the biblical case of the humanity of that baby. Likely, 511 00:37:15.429 --> 00:37:20.590 if she's already broken in some sense, there's no sense in adding insult to 512 00:37:20.630 --> 00:37:22.630 injury. So if she's already weep and she's already ball and she's already acknowledged 513 00:37:22.750 --> 00:37:27.869 her sin, likely the holy spirits already done that and all you've got to 514 00:37:27.909 --> 00:37:30.500 do is just, you know, a few maybe statements that can kind of 515 00:37:30.539 --> 00:37:35.139 reiterate the holy spirits conviction. If he's done that work again, it's his 516 00:37:35.219 --> 00:37:37.820 job to do that, then we don't need to add more to that. 517 00:37:37.340 --> 00:37:40.699 But we do need to be sure that there's a true conviction of sin and 518 00:37:42.260 --> 00:37:45.969 not just like a worldly sorrow like we talked about. And just you know, 519 00:37:45.690 --> 00:37:50.210 I'm sorry I disappointed you, because that can happen sometimes, where they're 520 00:37:50.250 --> 00:37:52.650 sad because not because they offended God, but because they disappointed you, and 521 00:37:52.690 --> 00:37:55.250 you were really nice to them. You're really kind to them. It was 522 00:37:55.369 --> 00:37:59.079 one here. That A lot. Yeah, that's what their true sorrow is. 523 00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:01.760 There was a in conviction of sin. There was a man today who 524 00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:07.320 stopped who had an abortion decade ago and he was asking me, you know, 525 00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:10.280 what was going on here, and he he said that he had, 526 00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:15.789 you know, been a part of an abortion many years ago and that ultimately 527 00:38:15.469 --> 00:38:21.429 they broke up and then she committed suicide. Oh well, and and he 528 00:38:21.510 --> 00:38:27.219 said not a day goes by that I don't think of it, but I'm 529 00:38:27.260 --> 00:38:30.460 grateful that I never really pushed her to the abortion. We both agreed to 530 00:38:30.539 --> 00:38:37.340 it. Yeah, and I console you'd say, you know, I I 531 00:38:37.579 --> 00:38:42.050 I told him my story and I said I really you've carried this burden for 532 00:38:42.170 --> 00:38:49.210 decades. You will never release this burden until you recognize that abortion, the 533 00:38:49.369 --> 00:38:52.849 abortion, was wrong, it was it was sin. It was sin against 534 00:38:52.889 --> 00:38:58.760 a holy God. But but God does long to heal you. But that's 535 00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:00.880 the first step in healing. I just came right out and said that is 536 00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:05.920 the first step in healing you. You have to understand what you did was 537 00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:08.679 wrong. And he was very gracious. He actually did listen to the whole 538 00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:10.909 thing. He didn't come to the Lord or anything. I shared the whole 539 00:39:10.909 --> 00:39:16.750 Gospel, but but he did thank me and he took attract a little book 540 00:39:16.750 --> 00:39:22.710 of John which he said he would read. But that so yet. Just 541 00:39:22.909 --> 00:39:28.260 being I think conviction of sin scripture is great, but sometimes just coming right 542 00:39:28.340 --> 00:39:32.500 out and saying it is is important. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and 543 00:39:32.659 --> 00:39:37.340 so I want to kind of knock through these as quick as we can because 544 00:39:37.380 --> 00:39:40.250 we're sort of running out of time recording this. But when we get to 545 00:39:40.329 --> 00:39:45.090 this last part of the podcast. Okay, so the steps of healing, 546 00:39:45.170 --> 00:39:49.849 of conviction of sin, sorrow for sin and be sorry, not just that 547 00:39:49.889 --> 00:39:52.280 they were caught in their sin but they've sent against God. Yeah, repentance. 548 00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:57.239 Now, repentance is not just sorrow. Repentance is actually turning away from 549 00:39:57.239 --> 00:40:00.400 sin. Yeah, turning away happens in the heart, also happens with our 550 00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:05.639 hands, our feet. All that right. Yeah, calling out to God 551 00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:07.150 for forgiveness and healing. Now, I want you to touch on that real 552 00:40:07.190 --> 00:40:12.190 quick because we when we share the Gospel, whether it's a mom who's chosen 553 00:40:12.230 --> 00:40:15.710 life for her baby or even a mom who's had an abortion, we do 554 00:40:15.989 --> 00:40:22.139 aim for a some might call it like an invitation sinners prayer. We're not 555 00:40:22.260 --> 00:40:24.940 trying to get them to pray after me, but talk a little bit about 556 00:40:24.980 --> 00:40:30.619 that. Well, in terms of out I think when when David calls out 557 00:40:30.699 --> 00:40:34.699 insign fifty one, he's calling out to God. He has repented and he's 558 00:40:34.739 --> 00:40:38.210 saying God, cleanse me, make me clean again, restore me to a 559 00:40:38.210 --> 00:40:45.170 right relationship with you. And and so calling out to God for forgiveness and 560 00:40:45.409 --> 00:40:52.079 healing means that you have recognize what you've done, you have turned from what 561 00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:58.079 you've done and you truly want a bestored relationship with God. You recognize that 562 00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:01.119 it has been disrupted by your sin. And this is the point we make 563 00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:05.550 such a big deal about. Well, you don't mention forgiveness too soon. 564 00:41:05.630 --> 00:41:10.070 Yeah, but there is a point at which forgiveness is to know that they 565 00:41:10.190 --> 00:41:16.550 can be forgiven, but forgiven does come with a price. I mean forgiveness 566 00:41:16.750 --> 00:41:24.059 is is, is not unconditional. Yeah, forgiveness must be preceded by repentance. 567 00:41:24.260 --> 00:41:29.699 And you know the I've I've really thought a lot about a forgiveness and 568 00:41:30.219 --> 00:41:36.050 one of the verses that is quoted all the time to Christians. We years 569 00:41:36.489 --> 00:41:39.769 forgiving people. We need to be a forgiving people, and they say forgive. 570 00:41:40.130 --> 00:41:45.969 Well, Jesus has forgive as the Lord forgave you, as God forgave 571 00:41:45.010 --> 00:41:51.960 you. But God's forgiveness, His forgiveness, is offered to all through the 572 00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:55.519 cross. I mean it's open to all, but it's never, never, 573 00:41:55.599 --> 00:42:01.309 we're never reconciled to God until there is repentance. Yeah, and then the 574 00:42:01.989 --> 00:42:09.230 forgiveness is is extended. Yeah, absolutely. So is that? Am I 575 00:42:09.309 --> 00:42:12.949 getting where you wanted me to go with that? Or is there to yeah, 576 00:42:12.989 --> 00:42:16.739 well, just in also in these conversations, getting them to call in 577 00:42:16.780 --> 00:42:20.980 the name of the Lord and I think getting them if you're in a one 578 00:42:21.099 --> 00:42:25.300 on one conversation. Well, they've acknowledge their sin. Yeah, you're repentant. 579 00:42:25.619 --> 00:42:30.570 Right, they're acknowledging their sin, their sorrow for there, their sorrow 580 00:42:30.650 --> 00:42:35.010 for it, and then they're voicing and I never want to do this again. 581 00:42:35.090 --> 00:42:38.449 That's that's a part of repentance. Now repentance is borne out not just 582 00:42:38.650 --> 00:42:42.769 in the moment but also in how we live. Right, the life of 583 00:42:42.849 --> 00:42:46.679 repentance. You're moving over into the next point about submitting one's life fully to 584 00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:52.679 Jesus. Right, if, if, if you truly want to know the 585 00:42:52.960 --> 00:43:00.510 freedom of forgiveness, that requires submitting your life to the Lord. Yeah, 586 00:43:00.630 --> 00:43:06.789 if you're not calling upon Jesus as Lord, you will never know what it 587 00:43:06.909 --> 00:43:10.429 means to be forgiven, to have that burden of your guilt lifted. But 588 00:43:10.550 --> 00:43:15.900 as soon as you do, your sins, which were scarlet, are made 589 00:43:15.980 --> 00:43:20.260 white as snow. His blood washes away. Yeah, your sin and that 590 00:43:20.539 --> 00:43:25.019 bird and that that overwhelming bird, and that guilt, that self condemnation and 591 00:43:25.139 --> 00:43:30.610 self hatred, that's removed. The consequences are not not all like in David's 592 00:43:30.690 --> 00:43:34.929 case, he was forgiven. Nathan tells him God will forgive you, you 593 00:43:35.130 --> 00:43:37.690 are it's got's not going to kill. You are forgiven, but the baby's 594 00:43:37.730 --> 00:43:44.280 going to die. There is still a consequence and and I think that's important 595 00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:49.920 for people who are experiencing forgiveness to remember that that does not mean that God 596 00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:54.639 removes the result of your sin right in. Sometimes he does, but quite 597 00:43:54.679 --> 00:44:00.230 frankly, most of the time I don't think he does. Most of the 598 00:44:00.349 --> 00:44:02.349 time you do live with the that's not really the point, right. The 599 00:44:02.389 --> 00:44:07.309 point is that I've offended God, right, I'm repenting to him and whatever 600 00:44:07.469 --> 00:44:10.739 consequences, maybe they that's what they are. Yeah, that, to me 601 00:44:10.860 --> 00:44:15.659 shows a truly repentant heart. Yeah, but kind of what I was getting 602 00:44:15.699 --> 00:44:20.780 at was getting them to right there in front of you, if there's this 603 00:44:21.059 --> 00:44:23.969 genuine repentance, getting them to call the name of the Lord Right there, 604 00:44:24.050 --> 00:44:25.969 rather than to say and do it when you get home. I think that 605 00:44:27.530 --> 00:44:31.690 personal accountability. What your standing right there now, do shy away from repeat 606 00:44:31.730 --> 00:44:35.889 after me. All right, say this after me. I shout away from 607 00:44:35.929 --> 00:44:37.369 that because anyways, well, you know, if that's genuine, yeah, 608 00:44:37.409 --> 00:44:42.159 if you're repeating after somebody calling the name of the Lord. Yeah, you 609 00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:45.840 know, like you've shared before. I'll tell him it can be as sloppy 610 00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:49.360 as you as you wanted to be. Ain't got to be in perfect King 611 00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:53.030 James English or anything like that. Just pray to the Lord, Confess your 612 00:44:53.070 --> 00:44:58.230 sin to him and ask him to save you. Yep, and in your 613 00:44:58.230 --> 00:45:00.949 own words, and oftentimes I have often had them say, oh, I 614 00:45:00.989 --> 00:45:02.829 can't do that, I'll just can I just say it in my head? 615 00:45:02.829 --> 00:45:06.590 And I say, well, read this first. WHAT IS ROMANCE? Ten 616 00:45:06.590 --> 00:45:09.739 Nine, say and and it says proclaim with your mouth. Yeah. So 617 00:45:10.139 --> 00:45:15.900 I think the reason for that God never makes mistakes. I think that's purposeful. 618 00:45:15.940 --> 00:45:17.940 The reason is if you say it out loud, in front of witnesses, 619 00:45:19.099 --> 00:45:21.610 even, but even if you're alone in a room, but you're saying 620 00:45:21.650 --> 00:45:25.650 it out loud to God, there is a that is a commitment. Yeah, 621 00:45:25.690 --> 00:45:30.969 that's and your Oh, your, you are not being worried about your 622 00:45:30.050 --> 00:45:36.639 image or selfconsciousness. You're speaking to God. Yeah, and yeah, I 623 00:45:36.679 --> 00:45:38.320 think that's powerful. Yeah, and I think that kind of leads to the 624 00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:43.000 next thing here. This is steps to healing, submitting to the authority of 625 00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:46.400 a local church. I think within that includes any local church I'm going to 626 00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:51.030 send somebody to, is going to include them getting baptized, right. Yeah, 627 00:45:51.190 --> 00:45:54.429 and that baptism. I don't believe in Baptismal regeneration, that getting baptized 628 00:45:54.469 --> 00:45:58.550 as what saves you. It's repentance and faith in Jesus, calling on the 629 00:45:58.550 --> 00:46:01.550 name of the Lord that saves people. Yeah, but baptism is a public 630 00:46:01.710 --> 00:46:07.980 declaration, like you talked about. You're letting everybody know now I'm submitted to 631 00:46:08.059 --> 00:46:10.820 Jesus. Yeah, and we've seen this. I've actually had a story, 632 00:46:10.860 --> 00:46:14.619 I think we shared on the podcast before. That happened not too long ago 633 00:46:14.699 --> 00:46:17.300 down in southern California, right over in southern California. That was awesome. 634 00:46:17.340 --> 00:46:21.570 Well, that young lady was chose life for a baby, surrender her life 635 00:46:21.570 --> 00:46:24.489 to Jesus. Now, she was not repenting of an abortion, but she 636 00:46:24.610 --> 00:46:28.610 was baptized right, and so that's that's an awesome story. But even these 637 00:46:28.690 --> 00:46:32.159 women who do end up giving theirselves over to the lies of the enemy and 638 00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:37.519 have an abortion, when they repent put their lives in Jesus hands, get 639 00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:43.159 baptized. This this public declaration that I'm that's my old life has been buried 640 00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:46.269 with Christ right my new life. I'm raised out of the waters of baptism 641 00:46:46.389 --> 00:46:50.909 to new life, symbolic of their new life with him, and I think 642 00:46:50.909 --> 00:46:54.110 that's included in the authority of the local church. Being in a local church 643 00:46:54.789 --> 00:47:01.300 helps keep that decision for Jesus solidified and helps them stay encouraged and stake accountable. 644 00:47:01.579 --> 00:47:07.340 Right and be really surrounded by other believers who are you know, help 645 00:47:07.460 --> 00:47:09.860 them through their struggles and all that. Oh, yeah, yeah, it's 646 00:47:09.980 --> 00:47:14.780 critical. So that in and also it's in the local church where you're going 647 00:47:14.780 --> 00:47:16.690 to be discipled. Yeah, God, God, will meet you where you 648 00:47:16.730 --> 00:47:19.929 are. Yeah, but he doesn't want us to stay where we are. 649 00:47:19.969 --> 00:47:22.130 I know you've heard that. A lot of people say that and and that's 650 00:47:22.170 --> 00:47:27.130 very true. So you're you know, that's where, that's what God instituted 651 00:47:27.210 --> 00:47:30.599 as the way in which we will be discipled and grows in a family of 652 00:47:30.679 --> 00:47:34.639 believers in the local church. Yeah. So, yeah, that's really important. 653 00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:38.159 And then the final step, I think, in in true healing, 654 00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:45.269 is to now use what has happened to you, the the sin and how 655 00:47:45.389 --> 00:47:49.829 it was redeemed, and use it to help others. Yeah, absolutely, 656 00:47:50.070 --> 00:47:52.670 and that's why there's so many of our concerts who are posted to board if 657 00:47:52.670 --> 00:47:55.550 they really know that that is a really important part of we don't do it 658 00:47:55.670 --> 00:48:00.780 for healing, but that's kind of the bonus. You have absolutely of what 659 00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:04.219 happens if you're out there helping others through. And I told that that man 660 00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:07.619 that stopped today. I said, this is why we're out here because we 661 00:48:07.739 --> 00:48:09.699 know. We know what we've done, we know it's wrong, we know 662 00:48:09.860 --> 00:48:15.250 the horrible consequences and part of that healing process is to go and try to 663 00:48:15.369 --> 00:48:17.969 help others not to do yeah, we did well. It's just, practically 664 00:48:19.010 --> 00:48:22.690 speaking, it's loving your neighbor, right, it's loving your neighbor as yourself 665 00:48:22.730 --> 00:48:27.199 if you've been down a destructive path. Yeah, and you like, for 666 00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:30.519 example, for myself, being involved in drugs, give myself to that. 667 00:48:30.039 --> 00:48:32.639 If I see someone getting involved in that, I'm going to warn them of 668 00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:37.880 the consequences and say God, deliver me from that and I'll promise you he 669 00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:40.360 don't want you to be involved in that stuff. Right. So it's just 670 00:48:40.869 --> 00:48:45.389 plain just loving our neighbor as ourselves, speaking the truth to people who ultimately 671 00:48:45.949 --> 00:48:51.510 going to be involved in a sinful and destructive things. Yeah. Yeah, 672 00:48:51.590 --> 00:48:55.820 and also, this is one of the reasons why in our applications and things, 673 00:48:55.900 --> 00:48:59.380 when we have people that come on board and get our training, our 674 00:48:59.420 --> 00:49:01.820 sidewalk training, we asked the question of about do they have abortion in their 675 00:49:01.860 --> 00:49:06.699 past? We ask that question, not because we want to probe deeply into 676 00:49:06.780 --> 00:49:09.650 their past or anything like that, but we ask that question. It's kind 677 00:49:09.650 --> 00:49:13.050 of yes or no question. Have you had an abortion in your past, 678 00:49:13.090 --> 00:49:15.329 and then we ask a qualifier. If you say yes, then have you 679 00:49:15.449 --> 00:49:20.010 gotten healing and what does that healing been? Because we want people to Minister 680 00:49:20.130 --> 00:49:23.360 from a place of healing rather than the place of hurting, because you can't 681 00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:27.159 give what you don't have. And so this is just for those of you 682 00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:31.000 who are counselors on the sidewalk where you underlove life or out there under your 683 00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:37.119 church or whatever. If you haven't gotten healing from a past abortion, you 684 00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:39.670 should seek that out. You should see restored life as a ministry that we 685 00:49:39.750 --> 00:49:45.949 work with that's under love life's umbrella. Stephanie Ronhart's wonderful. She'll get you 686 00:49:45.030 --> 00:49:49.309 connected and you can. I think it's love life that orgs last restored life. 687 00:49:49.469 --> 00:49:52.590 Either way, you can search, you can google search that, but 688 00:49:52.860 --> 00:49:55.019 that that's kind of a side note that if you have an abortion in your 689 00:49:55.059 --> 00:50:00.019 past, seek out that healing. Just make sure you come to a place 690 00:50:00.019 --> 00:50:02.219 of healing and restoration so you can minister out of that. That's right. 691 00:50:02.300 --> 00:50:09.929 And there's online healing resources if you know that's more convenient, or just all 692 00:50:10.010 --> 00:50:14.329 that you're able to do. But something, something, is important. Getting 693 00:50:14.329 --> 00:50:16.849 some sort of healing is important. Yeah, absolutely. So, just kind 694 00:50:16.849 --> 00:50:21.679 of ending out this episode of the PODCAST, you have here in the article 695 00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:25.000 the flow of the conversation right. So can you kind of just knock through 696 00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:30.800 that as quick as possible? Okay, so a great way to just introduce 697 00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:34.440 it's just saying, how are you doing? Yeah, how are you doing, 698 00:50:34.559 --> 00:50:37.710 and that's when she'll give those comments that you can piggyback off of. 699 00:50:37.150 --> 00:50:39.349 You know, well, I know it was wrong, but you know, 700 00:50:39.469 --> 00:50:44.110 I'm moving on. I will often hear that I'm I know, I need 701 00:50:44.269 --> 00:50:46.590 to just move on. I hear that almost every time. And so, 702 00:50:46.909 --> 00:50:51.860 because I hear that so frequently and it's a great comment, because it's such 703 00:50:51.900 --> 00:50:54.619 a great one, to easily then say, you know, you can't move 704 00:50:54.659 --> 00:51:00.739 on without acknowledging what has truly happened, and that's how you go into the 705 00:51:00.900 --> 00:51:06.329 story of or the the conviction of sin. Yeah, and you know, 706 00:51:06.489 --> 00:51:10.849 similar to what Nathan did with David, maybe mentioning some verses that talk about 707 00:51:10.849 --> 00:51:15.849 the sanctity of life and and why do you call me Lord Lord and not 708 00:51:15.929 --> 00:51:19.719 do what I say? Anything that is going to help her to recognize that 709 00:51:20.440 --> 00:51:28.280 what she did was was wrong, was indeed sin, and then oftentimes there 710 00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:32.550 will start to be some level of remorse and in some women, some women, 711 00:51:32.630 --> 00:51:37.349 great remorse, and then you can start to talk about what true repentance 712 00:51:37.469 --> 00:51:43.590 looks like and tell them that there is forgiveness. Yeah, Great Opportunity then 713 00:51:43.670 --> 00:51:46.420 to share the Gospel, if you haven't already share it again. If you've 714 00:51:46.460 --> 00:51:51.219 shared it once and then they went and aborted, I would say it didn't 715 00:51:51.219 --> 00:51:55.460 take words. I would question. I would go back to the section of 716 00:51:55.699 --> 00:52:00.179 Romans ten nine. Jesus is Lord, and I will ask them was he 717 00:52:00.340 --> 00:52:05.010 lord? Was He Lord when you were in there taking the life of your 718 00:52:05.050 --> 00:52:08.650 own son or daughter? And I will say it bluntly like that, and 719 00:52:09.090 --> 00:52:15.119 oftentimes I'll say no, he wasn't. And so really revisiting what that means. 720 00:52:15.320 --> 00:52:20.320 If Jesus is Lord, what that means, what does your change life 721 00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:24.079 look like then? And then talking about the healing post aboard of programs, 722 00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:30.269 linking her with them if you if possible. I want to reiterate what we 723 00:52:30.389 --> 00:52:34.829 mentioned early on, but it's very important. I have heard many people say 724 00:52:35.070 --> 00:52:39.150 the advice in when you're dealing with a woman who chose life inish lily and 725 00:52:39.269 --> 00:52:44.619 now has turned back to abortion. Is just show her the love of Jesus, 726 00:52:44.980 --> 00:52:49.860 and I say no that I I think that that probably does damage. 727 00:52:50.300 --> 00:52:54.380 In fact, I would say yes, but just what I talked about earlier, 728 00:52:54.619 --> 00:52:59.090 sharing her the love of Jesus is not just be nice to her, 729 00:52:59.530 --> 00:53:04.449 okay, but the love of Jesus is to bring like, okay, okay, 730 00:53:05.130 --> 00:53:08.769 Jesus would be the physician that when you walk in with blue spots on 731 00:53:08.929 --> 00:53:13.840 your face and in a horn gris how your head because you have some kind 732 00:53:13.880 --> 00:53:16.400 of weird disease, he's going to point that out because he loves you. 733 00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:21.079 Right. So showing them the love of Jesus is talking about the thing. 734 00:53:21.159 --> 00:53:23.480 That's it's obvious, right. That's right. Yeah, so a lot of 735 00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:27.230 times she showing the love of Jesus. Again, people are saying just be 736 00:53:27.349 --> 00:53:30.550 nice, talk about everything, but that talk about, you know, think 737 00:53:30.550 --> 00:53:34.670 about his comfort, just comforting. Now I walk into the physicians room and 738 00:53:34.789 --> 00:53:37.349 to the or the doctor walks into the room, you're sitting there on the 739 00:53:37.550 --> 00:53:40.659 on the little bad thing, and he just talks about how much how great 740 00:53:40.699 --> 00:53:44.739 you are, he talks about how much he loves you. And yet meanwhile 741 00:53:44.780 --> 00:53:46.860 you got all this blues, these blue spots on your frience and a horn 742 00:53:46.900 --> 00:53:50.940 grown out of your head, and he doesn't talk about the thing that's going 743 00:53:51.019 --> 00:53:55.530 to cause you great harm. Right, right. So just just comforting with 744 00:53:55.889 --> 00:54:00.530 with Jesus loves you and and yeah, just go ahead and move on that. 745 00:54:00.610 --> 00:54:04.409 That's not what we're calling to do. We Are we are called to 746 00:54:04.449 --> 00:54:12.159 speak, speak truth in in a loving manner. And and so the remember 747 00:54:12.199 --> 00:54:15.840 the goal. Remember the goal. It is for not only to help them 748 00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:20.119 recognize their sin just for the purpose of recognizing sin, but the goal is 749 00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:22.639 that they would be restored and reconciled to God. Yeah, that is the 750 00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:29.989 ultimate goal. And and in you know, do whatever you need to do, 751 00:54:30.429 --> 00:54:37.030 truthfully and lovingly, to bring them to an acknowledgement that they need God 752 00:54:37.429 --> 00:54:42.820 know that they have walked away from him in the act of abortion. Yeah, 753 00:54:43.380 --> 00:54:47.139 absolutely good stuff. Yeah, I think. And it's all put into 754 00:54:47.139 --> 00:54:51.460 an article. Yeah, that will be on the sidewalks for life website. 755 00:54:52.019 --> 00:54:55.050 I have tried to put the links of these articles out as the podcast of 756 00:54:55.170 --> 00:54:58.250 going out, but I'm not always been able to do do that. So 757 00:54:59.050 --> 00:55:01.210 if the link is not in the show notes of the PODCAST, go to 758 00:55:01.289 --> 00:55:07.719 sidewalks for lifecom search, post abortive, whatever words would bring this up. 759 00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:09.840 You can do it in search pretty easily and find out any articles that have 760 00:55:09.960 --> 00:55:14.840 to do with that. And so hopefully you guys will be able to get 761 00:55:14.880 --> 00:55:16.159 a hold of this article, because there's a lot in this article that we 762 00:55:16.239 --> 00:55:21.119 didn't cover because we kind of ran out of time and we think it would 763 00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:22.309 be a blessing to you. So please take advantage of that. Read the 764 00:55:22.389 --> 00:55:25.590 article, share the article, reach out to us, like we say in 765 00:55:25.630 --> 00:55:29.309 the beginning. You know we want you to share this podcast. Want you 766 00:55:29.309 --> 00:55:31.389 to let us know if there are other things you'd like for us to talk 767 00:55:31.469 --> 00:55:35.780 about, subjects you'd like for us to cover. Daniel, Love Life Dot 768 00:55:35.820 --> 00:55:37.900 Org. You reach her, Vicky, at Love Life Dot Org. We 769 00:55:37.019 --> 00:55:40.900 love to hear from you, but until next time, God bless God that 770 00:55:42.019 --> 00:55:53.570 Y'all give me our love for love. Give me our love for gratitude. 771 00:55:57.650 --> 00:56:07.400 I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious in some you