Was Pastor Matt Chandler Right?

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.759 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me. 2 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:09.509 Lord, some folks have implied that if we tell a woman not to 3 00:00:09.589 --> 00:00:12.470 have an abortion, then we need to be willing and able to meet the 4 00:00:12.550 --> 00:00:16.070 needs that brought her to the abortion clinic in the first place. But as 5 00:00:16.109 --> 00:00:19.829 that concept Biblical and how should we view that subject? Join us as we 6 00:00:19.949 --> 00:00:34.500 talked this through. I felt show passish touch your welcome to the Gospel Center 7 00:00:34.579 --> 00:00:38.810 pro life podcast. We appreciate you guys listening and we're going to talk today 8 00:00:40.210 --> 00:00:44.689 about Matt Chandler, but not really. So we're not. This podcast is 9 00:00:44.810 --> 00:00:48.369 not throwing him under the bus. It's just a particular mean that's been out 10 00:00:48.409 --> 00:00:52.280 there in the social media around and that some folks have been talking about, 11 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:55.759 and so we wanted to talk about it, not just about him, and 12 00:00:55.920 --> 00:00:59.039 I'm sure you know he's a great guy. I don't listen to Matt Chandler 13 00:00:59.079 --> 00:01:02.079 A lot. I've missed listen to him some. He has some good messages 14 00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:07.069 about abortion in particular, and and I believe their church is really involved in 15 00:01:07.829 --> 00:01:11.469 trying to rescue the unborn and doing things for the Lord in that realm. 16 00:01:11.709 --> 00:01:15.189 But this is really just I think a misconception that a lot of people have. 17 00:01:15.629 --> 00:01:22.420 Right and I don't know it's sometimes it looks to me, when people 18 00:01:22.420 --> 00:01:26.859 say things like this, that their concern is less with what the Bible says 19 00:01:26.060 --> 00:01:30.939 and more with what culture might say or might think. MM and so, 20 00:01:32.099 --> 00:01:34.689 if you don't mind, you've written an article here. Right, he, 21 00:01:34.890 --> 00:01:38.329 like you do often times. Yeah, and I appreciate would you read that 22 00:01:38.409 --> 00:01:42.489 quote? That? Yeah, yeah, so he there was this meme on 23 00:01:42.609 --> 00:01:47.680 facebook. It said, as the church, we must not say of abortion, 24 00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:53.239 this is murder without saying to pregnant women we will serve you. If 25 00:01:53.319 --> 00:02:00.920 we're doing the former without the ladder, we don't truly understand the Gospel. 26 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:05.189 Okay. So if we're doing the the former, we're saying abortion is murder 27 00:02:05.510 --> 00:02:07.430 without doing the ladder, which is basically saying hey, will serve you, 28 00:02:07.909 --> 00:02:12.949 pregnant mom, then we don't understand the Gospel. Right. Right. And 29 00:02:13.150 --> 00:02:15.819 you know, it ties into I didn't know I was going to mention this 30 00:02:15.860 --> 00:02:17.939 this early, but it just flows into it. It ties into this idea 31 00:02:19.139 --> 00:02:23.699 that and this has been attributed to probably everyone's favorite theologian over the years or 32 00:02:23.699 --> 00:02:27.939 favorite preacher over the years. I don't know actually who said it. But 33 00:02:28.620 --> 00:02:31.409 Preach the Gospel at all times. It when necessary, use words. Right, 34 00:02:31.449 --> 00:02:34.930 I heard that one. Oh yeah, yeah, one of my least 35 00:02:34.930 --> 00:02:37.530 favorite. Yeah, well, you know, it's cute, you know, 36 00:02:37.610 --> 00:02:39.050 and it makes the world think. Oh, these people are not just about 37 00:02:39.090 --> 00:02:43.969 shoving the Gospel Down People's throats. There about helping others, right, which 38 00:02:43.969 --> 00:02:46.680 we should help mothers. I mean we're not. This podcast is not saying 39 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:51.719 we shouldn't help others, but that idea preach the Gospel and, when necessary, 40 00:02:51.759 --> 00:02:54.520 use words is like, yes, stupid. Yeah, they're say, 41 00:02:54.680 --> 00:02:58.629 you know, they're saying it's get you should demonstrate it with your life, 42 00:02:58.789 --> 00:03:00.669 but not speak with your words, which, it is true, you should 43 00:03:00.710 --> 00:03:05.069 demonstrate with you likely, but that's not what the Bible says about how we 44 00:03:05.110 --> 00:03:07.310 are to share the Gospel. Yeah, I mean that would say preach the 45 00:03:07.389 --> 00:03:13.539 Gospel and it's necessary to use words like in order to preach the Gospel. 46 00:03:13.539 --> 00:03:15.699 And you have the gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Those 47 00:03:15.740 --> 00:03:22.419 gospels were written down their words. They are written right to be broadcast about 48 00:03:22.500 --> 00:03:24.259 this Jesus, and right, you know, Paul and First Corinthians, Chapter 49 00:03:24.340 --> 00:03:29.129 Fifteen, the first couple of verses there in First Corinthians, Chapter Fifteen, 50 00:03:29.129 --> 00:03:31.129 he says it's The Gospel that I delivered to you, which I received. 51 00:03:31.250 --> 00:03:35.169 And Yeah, and he lays out that Jesus Christ died for our sins, 52 00:03:35.169 --> 00:03:38.009 according to the scriptures, that he was buried on the third day he rose 53 00:03:38.050 --> 00:03:40.250 again, according to the scripture. So the Gospel is the death, burial 54 00:03:40.330 --> 00:03:45.080 and resurrection of Jesus Correct. And sometimes we fall into the trap, and 55 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:49.199 I think it's possible that's what Matt Chandler's here doing in this quote, if 56 00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:52.120 fall into the trap of, you know, trying to guess, trying to 57 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:54.120 look good to the world and try not to look like just preachy people. 58 00:03:54.319 --> 00:03:58.189 What we should be doing good things, and you know those two things. 59 00:03:58.270 --> 00:04:01.389 It's not like it's mutually exclusive, like you can preach the Gospel, use 60 00:04:01.469 --> 00:04:04.909 words and you can do good for others. We're commanded to do good for 61 00:04:04.990 --> 00:04:10.060 others. Were commanded to, you know, in these situations, to as 62 00:04:10.139 --> 00:04:14.460 best we can to help these women. But the question is, and it's 63 00:04:14.580 --> 00:04:18.019 in it's a misconception that I like to tear down with folks, with our 64 00:04:18.060 --> 00:04:23.259 new volunteers and with other folks that I talked to about pro life issues is 65 00:04:23.420 --> 00:04:27.329 that, you know, we can't go out there to an abortion clinic, 66 00:04:27.370 --> 00:04:30.490 or we can't be in a pregnancy center in ministry, or we can't stand, 67 00:04:30.649 --> 00:04:32.810 you know, in a protest situation with a sign saying abortion is murder, 68 00:04:33.089 --> 00:04:35.529 unless we're willing to help all of the women that would come to an 69 00:04:35.529 --> 00:04:40.879 abortion to have an abortion right it. Is that really true and as that 70 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:45.920 mentality really biblical? Yeah, and and we can't speak against abortion without having 71 00:04:45.959 --> 00:04:50.800 the resources to help women who would consider abortion right right and to meet the 72 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:54.709 needs that they are using to justifyables. Yeah, you know, one of 73 00:04:54.750 --> 00:04:58.750 the things that I like to do whenever these sorts of statements are made is 74 00:04:59.350 --> 00:05:05.670 kind of show the ludicrousness of those statements by giving other examples, not of 75 00:05:05.750 --> 00:05:10.779 an unborn child, so sort of like a fault experiments, kind of kind 76 00:05:10.779 --> 00:05:14.620 of just substituting a different, different words, but that give the basic same 77 00:05:14.660 --> 00:05:17.300 idea. So so what if the memes said, as a church, we 78 00:05:17.980 --> 00:05:24.769 must not say that's sexual abuse of two year olds is wicked, without saying 79 00:05:24.850 --> 00:05:28.930 to all fathers we will serve you. Yeah, okay, that's not all 80 00:05:28.970 --> 00:05:32.050 that different from except now we're talking about instead of an unborn and an abortion, 81 00:05:32.129 --> 00:05:39.920 which is a legal and increasingly socially acceptable form of murder. We're talking 82 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:43.519 about something that most people agree with, that that two year old should not 83 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:46.920 be sexually is. If you don't agree with that, then turn this podcast 84 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:49.110 off and right, right and go get demons cast out. Okay, so 85 00:05:49.189 --> 00:05:54.709 here's anotherhood. How about this? As a church, we must not say 86 00:05:54.829 --> 00:06:01.069 of drunk drivers who kill innocent children, murderers, unless we provide programs to 87 00:06:01.269 --> 00:06:05.980 every alcoholic. All right, yeah, and you know, these thought experiments 88 00:06:06.019 --> 00:06:11.980 and you kind of analogies help us to see the absurdity, right, of 89 00:06:12.100 --> 00:06:15.339 what's being said. Right. So you know what Matt Chandler says again, 90 00:06:15.339 --> 00:06:17.459 going back to that you we must not say of abortion. Then it's murder 91 00:06:18.170 --> 00:06:21.449 without saying to the mother. will serve you right. Well, let's ask 92 00:06:21.490 --> 00:06:26.529 ourselves the question then and again. I'm not picking on Matt Chandler, is 93 00:06:26.889 --> 00:06:30.170 you know, it's a situation where we could ben I can't see how, 94 00:06:30.370 --> 00:06:32.959 but maybe he was taken out of context. It's just a little quote. 95 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:36.519 I think the human coalition or somebody put it out in a meme, right, 96 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:39.959 and and it's some other folks grab don't do it. Say this is 97 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:42.480 what. What is it? What is he even talking about? So we're 98 00:06:42.519 --> 00:06:45.759 not picking on him, but we have to ask yourself, though, is 99 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:48.990 abortion really murder? And, you know, I would say take even a 100 00:06:49.029 --> 00:06:54.350 step further than that. Is it mass genocide? Is it like unto the 101 00:06:54.470 --> 00:07:00.870 Holocaust, because I think most prolife folks would agree that it is. I 102 00:07:00.949 --> 00:07:04.060 mean, we're looking at sixty five million plus, right, so that's almost, 103 00:07:04.220 --> 00:07:08.699 you know, ten times as many people that were killed in the Holocaust 104 00:07:08.779 --> 00:07:11.860 and I think we all would look back at the Holocaust and say that was 105 00:07:11.939 --> 00:07:16.769 a terrible, massive loss of innocent life and it was something that we as 106 00:07:16.810 --> 00:07:20.089 a society, we, you know, human being, should look back and 107 00:07:20.170 --> 00:07:25.930 say that should never have happened. Right, is abortion? Is the abortion 108 00:07:26.050 --> 00:07:30.480 Holocaust like unto that? And it would always be, you know, Tan 109 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:33.839 amount to saying to you know, these Nazis who many felt like they were 110 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:38.720 doing their country and economic good by getting rid of these people that they perceive 111 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:42.120 to be the problem that, you know, we can't say to these Nazis, 112 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:46.110 Hey, don't, don't pack these Jews away and in cattle cars and 113 00:07:46.470 --> 00:07:48.990 send him off to concentration camps and ultimately kill them, like we're not able 114 00:07:49.029 --> 00:07:54.990 to say that unless we offer them some kind of rehabilitation, profect or in 115 00:07:55.350 --> 00:07:58.899 the economic conditions that they needed. That they were saying, if we get 116 00:07:58.939 --> 00:08:03.220 rid of the Jews, it will increase whatever prosperity. Yeah, and so 117 00:08:03.899 --> 00:08:07.500 what do we need to be sure we're? Should we have been sure Germany 118 00:08:07.620 --> 00:08:11.740 was economically prosperous and then say, Oh and by the way, don't right. 119 00:08:11.779 --> 00:08:15.850 Yes, three million Jews are however many million Jews they can yeah, 120 00:08:15.930 --> 00:08:22.370 and really the question is this. Do we have any right to go and 121 00:08:22.490 --> 00:08:26.529 tell moms going into an abortion clinic or MOMS who are struggling in their hearts 122 00:08:26.569 --> 00:08:28.040 and minds of whether or not to have an abortion, that we have any 123 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:33.240 right to tell them not to kill their children if we don't have the resources 124 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:37.799 available to meet their needs or if we're not willing to make the sacrifices that 125 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:41.269 we would have to make as a church, as a ministry, as an 126 00:08:41.269 --> 00:08:46.110 individual, like if we're not willing to take a mother in our house who's 127 00:08:46.149 --> 00:08:48.789 getting who's going to be kicked out of her house unless she has an abortion, 128 00:08:48.830 --> 00:08:50.110 right, do we have any right to tell her not to have that 129 00:08:50.190 --> 00:08:54.590 abouttion, right, and some folks will say no, yeah, we need 130 00:08:54.710 --> 00:08:56.899 to be be willing to open our house. And I'm not saying because you 131 00:08:58.019 --> 00:09:01.779 know, some of our volunteers have literally done that. Some volunteers have literally, 132 00:09:01.019 --> 00:09:05.700 literally taken MOMS who were going to be homeless into their homes from the 133 00:09:05.860 --> 00:09:09.649 abortion clining. Yep, you serve all some testimony. So, yeah, 134 00:09:09.850 --> 00:09:13.330 that's that's something that, you know, some of our folks have been willing 135 00:09:13.370 --> 00:09:16.730 to do. But, as everyone, should everyone be willing to do that? 136 00:09:16.289 --> 00:09:20.049 Yeah, and and of course not, of course not. So, 137 00:09:20.570 --> 00:09:24.559 as in all things, it's it's really valuable. Says, what does the 138 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:28.000 Bible say? Yeah, does does the Bible the exactly does the Bible Guide 139 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:33.120 us in this? And so, when I was working on this article, 140 00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:41.789 does the Bible talk about proclamations by the Church regarding we could behavior? Okay, 141 00:09:43.309 --> 00:09:48.990 and how are we to talk about or are we to talk about we 142 00:09:50.110 --> 00:09:52.980 could behavior? Do we need to just the Bible talk about providing social programs 143 00:09:54.059 --> 00:09:56.779 first or whatever? So some of the some of the verses that I found, 144 00:09:58.019 --> 00:10:03.379 these are verses for all from proverbs twenty eight. Okay, I just 145 00:10:03.539 --> 00:10:07.850 looked at the one proverb the wicked flee when no one is pursuing, but 146 00:10:07.970 --> 00:10:11.769 the righteous are bold as a lion. All right, those who forsake the 147 00:10:11.889 --> 00:10:18.730 law praise the wicked, but those who keep the law strive with them. 148 00:10:20.490 --> 00:10:26.120 He who leads the upright astray in an evil way will himself fall into his 149 00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:33.039 own pit. But the blame was blameless will inherit good. He who confesses 150 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:39.789 and forsakes transgressions will find compassion. A man who is laden with the guilt 151 00:10:39.830 --> 00:10:43.990 of human blood will be a fugitive until death. Let no one support him. 152 00:10:45.870 --> 00:10:50.259 He who rebukes a man will afterward find more favor, favor than he 153 00:10:50.379 --> 00:10:54.340 who flatters with the tongue. In other words, in all of these verses, 154 00:10:54.620 --> 00:10:58.500 the righteous are bold. Who are the righteous? The Bible tells us, 155 00:10:58.539 --> 00:11:01.539 right, who are the righteous? Well, I mean, of course 156 00:11:01.620 --> 00:11:05.649 we all know there's none righteous. So we're not. We're not righteous in 157 00:11:05.769 --> 00:11:09.929 and of ourselves, right, but when we become Christians, we take on 158 00:11:09.049 --> 00:11:13.850 the righteousness of Christ and you and the Bible's pretty clear that you are. 159 00:11:13.889 --> 00:11:18.490 You are righteous in Christ and so yeah, I mean we could, as 160 00:11:18.529 --> 00:11:22.279 Christians, say we're the righteous by the grace of God, and we're told 161 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:28.399 we who are righteous are to be bold as lions. Yeah, in exposing 162 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:31.799 evil. So yess club. Sure, proverbs twenty eight is a good one. 163 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:33.669 The what there were many. That was throughout proverbs twenty eight, where 164 00:11:33.710 --> 00:11:37.029 I didn't give the specific verses, but you can, you can look them 165 00:11:37.070 --> 00:11:45.590 up. But so, what does boldness entail? And you touched on this 166 00:11:45.629 --> 00:11:50.740 right at the beginning. Is Boldness just demonstrating by our lives that we are 167 00:11:52.539 --> 00:12:00.179 reflecting God and and showing God's atoning sacrifice for us, the Gospel, through 168 00:12:00.259 --> 00:12:05.330 our behavior? It should. But is that boldness? Right? And there 169 00:12:05.370 --> 00:12:15.169 were a lot of scriptures about boldness. And listen to the active verb. 170 00:12:15.610 --> 00:12:18.360 Okay, in all of these scripture into some grammar, grammar, and there, 171 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:22.799 yeah, this is a grammar. Let's I was an English major in 172 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:26.600 a little bit worried. Yeah, okay, okay, in axe twenty eight, 173 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:31.870 thirty one, proclaiming the Kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus 174 00:12:33.149 --> 00:12:37.909 with all boldness. Yeah, proclaiming, right, that's the active verb. 175 00:12:37.029 --> 00:12:41.110 We are proclaiming with all boldness. Okay, how about this one? If 176 00:12:41.190 --> 00:12:46.580 Heesian six nineteen, but also for me that words may be given to me 177 00:12:48.059 --> 00:12:54.059 in opening my mouth boldly right, to proclaim the mystery of the Gospel effician, 178 00:12:54.139 --> 00:12:56.259 six nineteenth people. So all again. Right. And what does he 179 00:12:56.379 --> 00:13:03.690 do? He opens his mouth boldly, not catch flies, right, right, 180 00:13:03.370 --> 00:13:09.210 probably to speak, probably say okay, Second Timothy, three hundred and 181 00:13:09.210 --> 00:13:13.720 sixteen, all scriptures breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, 182 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:20.039 for correction and for training in righteousness. Now, the word boldly wasn't 183 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:22.519 in there, but it does tell us, tell us that we are to 184 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:28.669 correct others. Now I want to ask how can we correct others if we're 185 00:13:28.789 --> 00:13:33.029 you're not speaking. Yeah, how are we going to correct well, you 186 00:13:33.110 --> 00:13:35.269 know, someone might well say, you know, if someone's living a lifestyle 187 00:13:35.350 --> 00:13:39.629 that's destructive, if you live a lifestyle that honors God and it's not destructive 188 00:13:39.669 --> 00:13:43.899 in front of them, MMM, then that's a way that you can correct 189 00:13:43.899 --> 00:13:46.620 them. Your life can be a rebuke, right, and and that correction, 190 00:13:46.779 --> 00:13:52.659 presumably, would take some time. So what if? What if the 191 00:13:52.940 --> 00:13:56.210 need for correction is when there's a life or death on the line in front 192 00:13:56.250 --> 00:13:58.409 of me? Yeah, because I mean to that situation. And you would 193 00:13:58.409 --> 00:14:01.730 say, if somebody's, you know, it's let's say you have next door 194 00:14:01.730 --> 00:14:05.370 neighbors that are living, you know, sexually and moral. Maybe they're shacked 195 00:14:05.370 --> 00:14:09.129 up and they're cohabitating. They're not married in right, you know, I 196 00:14:09.169 --> 00:14:11.440 mean my wife were going to live an awesome married life in front of these 197 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:15.440 people. Be a display. Yes, and Amen, you should right. 198 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:20.600 But those it's not like an either or situation. M You need to be 199 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:22.960 speaking the Gospel. That I mean you're shoving it down their throat. It 200 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:26.830 doesn't mean you in the situation of abortion that we need the we're not saying 201 00:14:26.830 --> 00:14:31.230 you need to stand in front of abortion clinic and yell you murderer. You 202 00:14:31.309 --> 00:14:33.990 feel the murder or your abortion is murder, anything like that. But you 203 00:14:35.350 --> 00:14:37.659 do need to use words right in order to proclaim the Gospel and you do 204 00:14:37.860 --> 00:14:43.100 need to use words in order to proclaim, two women going into an abortion 205 00:14:43.139 --> 00:14:46.419 clinic and men at the abortion clinic that abortion is wrong. Right. We've 206 00:14:46.460 --> 00:14:52.059 talked about it a bunch and so I don't think that we need to backtrack 207 00:14:52.139 --> 00:14:56.409 and qualify what we're saying, but I'LL DIS mantine it. We're not, 208 00:14:56.129 --> 00:15:00.049 as a ministry, standing in front of the abortion clinic just yelling at people. 209 00:15:00.090 --> 00:15:03.769 We want to be gracious in our words, but we also do want 210 00:15:03.769 --> 00:15:09.519 to speak what we speak with boldness, with truth and with clarity. And 211 00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:13.759 you know, the Bible does tell us that there are actions that people should 212 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:22.029 see, but they're not just the actions of living a righteous life. They 213 00:15:22.070 --> 00:15:26.750 are that, but listen to these actions. Okay, and in proverbs eleven, 214 00:15:26.789 --> 00:15:31.070 one of kind of a key verse for our ministry. Rescue those who 215 00:15:31.429 --> 00:15:37.340 are being taken away to death, hold back those who are stumbling to the 216 00:15:37.419 --> 00:15:45.659 slaughter. Our actions are to prevent in a physical way. What is someone 217 00:15:46.179 --> 00:15:50.370 in a dire situation being led away to death, stumbling to the slaughter? 218 00:15:50.450 --> 00:15:54.169 Where to hold them back? Where to rescue them? So we're to broke 219 00:15:54.210 --> 00:16:00.250 up, boldly, proclaim the Gospel, boldly, stand and act to deter 220 00:16:00.649 --> 00:16:03.679 the wicked. Yeah, I think the Bible's pretty clear about that and I 221 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:08.399 just gave a very few verses that that talk about that. We are to 222 00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:14.799 confront evil boldly. Yeah, yeah, and the confrontation that were supposed to 223 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:18.029 have with evil is often times a verbal confrontation, like you just mentioned. 224 00:16:18.110 --> 00:16:22.710 You know, the the Timothy Passage about reb rebuke and reproof. Those are 225 00:16:22.950 --> 00:16:27.750 those are verbal words. Yes, are they imply that you're using your mouth 226 00:16:27.830 --> 00:16:32.389 or using your words right, to bring a reproof, to bring a rebuke, 227 00:16:32.509 --> 00:16:34.460 to bring a correction. Yeah, and in none of these verses, 228 00:16:34.620 --> 00:16:40.019 by the way, and you can look through proverbs twenty eight, there is 229 00:16:40.220 --> 00:16:44.220 in the last verse in Proverb Twenty Eight, one call in a sense to 230 00:16:44.379 --> 00:16:47.769 social justice. That that verse. I'll just read it. He who gives 231 00:16:47.809 --> 00:16:51.649 to the poor will never want, but he who shuts his eyes will have 232 00:16:51.690 --> 00:16:56.610 many curses. But all of the other verses and in in proverbs twenty eight, 233 00:16:56.690 --> 00:17:00.330 we're talking about how to how to deal with the wicked. Yeah, 234 00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:04.119 but he gives to the poor. He doesn't say gives to the poor who 235 00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:10.039 have done some wickedness. It's just give to someone who's an unfortunate circumstances. 236 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:15.000 Right. That's a very different situation than what's happening at an abortion center. 237 00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.589 Yes or not? Just poor women? These are often poor women who are 238 00:17:18.589 --> 00:17:22.630 there murdering their baby. Yeah, well, you know, also there's this 239 00:17:23.190 --> 00:17:29.509 misconception that folks have about women going into abortion clinics, women that are having 240 00:17:29.509 --> 00:17:33.420 abortions. Now, I am not saying that there aren't difficult situations. There 241 00:17:33.460 --> 00:17:37.619 are. We encounter them on a regular basis. Just a few days ago 242 00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:41.420 we were talking about this. We had a situation where a young lady's boyfriend 243 00:17:42.059 --> 00:17:45.049 was in essence, trying to force her to have an abortion. There was 244 00:17:45.089 --> 00:17:49.450 a such a scuffle he busted the window over car out with the Rock and 245 00:17:51.049 --> 00:17:53.730 and you thankfully she didn't have the abortion, praise God, but she was 246 00:17:53.769 --> 00:17:57.599 under a lot of pressure right and she was, you know, still is 247 00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:00.920 under a lot of pressure. That situation hasn't just disappeared because she left the 248 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:04.519 abortion clinic. Yeah, and we encounter, I mean, any situation you 249 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:08.240 can think of that might could potentially just find abortion, we encountered. But 250 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:12.910 the fact is the vast, vast, vast majority of the women that we 251 00:18:12.950 --> 00:18:18.710 encountered at an abortion clinic are in no way victims, in no way, 252 00:18:19.390 --> 00:18:22.190 you know, being pressure to have an abortion. I mean we see him 253 00:18:22.990 --> 00:18:26.539 go in and and they almost like they kill their baby just for spite. 254 00:18:26.579 --> 00:18:32.420 Yeah, of us. Now again, I'm not tagging everyone that has an 255 00:18:32.460 --> 00:18:34.859 abortion with that kind of mentality or whatever, but I'm just saying our experience 256 00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:37.500 has been and if and if you have this mentality, I guess what I'm 257 00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:41.609 getting at is, if you have the mentality that women that have abortions to 258 00:18:41.730 --> 00:18:47.009 just pure, poor innocent victims. Then come out with us for a couple 259 00:18:47.049 --> 00:18:49.609 of days, come out and join us on the sidewalk and you'll see that 260 00:18:49.730 --> 00:18:52.690 they're not just victims. We did a podcast about this. Are Women that 261 00:18:52.769 --> 00:18:57.920 have abortions victims? And and we talked about biblically and and from a biblical 262 00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:02.319 perspective. You know, in a sense we're all victims of the lies of 263 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:06.440 the enemy. Doesn't give us justification for doing the sins and things that we 264 00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:07.400 do. Do we do a podcast, but did? Yeah, we did. 265 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:11.509 Okay, yeah, so you remember. It's awesome to I remember it 266 00:19:11.589 --> 00:19:15.309 so so vividly right now. Not Really, but listen to it. It's 267 00:19:15.309 --> 00:19:19.789 awesome. So the idea that women are poored, just poor innocent victims of 268 00:19:19.869 --> 00:19:23.579 their circumstances and that's why they have an abortion, it's just a misconception, 269 00:19:23.619 --> 00:19:29.299 right. It is. It is and that you know. We see women 270 00:19:29.380 --> 00:19:32.539 go in and we see women come out and we see many come out with 271 00:19:32.660 --> 00:19:36.660 tears in their eyes and their hearts are broken and it's grievous for us to 272 00:19:36.740 --> 00:19:40.410 see them come out and it's basically okay, you've been duped by the devil. 273 00:19:40.450 --> 00:19:42.250 He told you go in and have the abortion and it's going to be 274 00:19:42.329 --> 00:19:45.890 all right. And you're saying the comforter going in is your accuser. Come 275 00:19:45.890 --> 00:19:48.769 Out, look what you've done, and so hard to see. But the 276 00:19:49.089 --> 00:19:52.849 vast majority are not like that. The vast majority to come out and they 277 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:56.519 got their middle finger up and they, you know, speed out just despite 278 00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:02.079 you. Right, there's something on facebook right now, I believe they're quotes 279 00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:06.079 and testimonies. I think it's called not a victim. Yeah, and and 280 00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:11.390 it's quotes and testimonies from women who are post abortive and who talked about they 281 00:20:11.430 --> 00:20:15.630 admit, look, I am not a victim and they'll describe their wickedness and 282 00:20:15.750 --> 00:20:18.910 you can going into that abortion. So, yeah, I haven't looked much 283 00:20:18.910 --> 00:20:22.339 into that, but yeah, yeah, you know, and are not that 284 00:20:22.579 --> 00:20:26.220 many of them are not. They're not and they admit they're not. And 285 00:20:26.299 --> 00:20:30.980 I think another another way that we can approach whether this meme is true or 286 00:20:32.019 --> 00:20:37.289 not is to think about are there any biblical examples of Prophets, messengers of 287 00:20:37.369 --> 00:20:44.450 God, anyone who God has sent to confront evil, to confront wicked? 288 00:20:44.809 --> 00:20:51.480 Yeah, who are also told by God but first make sure all those social 289 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:56.960 programs that are necessary to take care of all those wicked people's needs are in 290 00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:00.400 place. Yeah, yeah, well, you know, you think about the 291 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:03.910 children of Israel and and their rebellion against God, and I know you're going 292 00:21:03.910 --> 00:21:07.549 to talk a little bit about Moses. To be going on, even pass 293 00:21:07.710 --> 00:21:11.950 Moses, H Huh, if you're looking at Jeremiah, the prophet is they 294 00:21:12.869 --> 00:21:18.660 write these men were called to a difficult task, right, they were called 295 00:21:18.740 --> 00:21:22.380 to expose the sin of the nation of Israel, their rebellion and their idolatry. 296 00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:26.819 And again, it was not an easy task. And it's not like 297 00:21:26.900 --> 00:21:30.740 these people were involved in, you know, just you know, bad gambling 298 00:21:30.859 --> 00:21:36.369 deals or they are, you know, you know, doing just underhanded things. 299 00:21:36.410 --> 00:21:42.009 They were involved literally in sacrificing their children to demons, to Pagan Gods, 300 00:21:42.130 --> 00:21:47.799 right, little g and so they were dealing with in a lot of 301 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:52.559 ways, what we're talking very similar. So it's the absolutely murderabness the innocent 302 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:55.559 babies. So hop into what you've got. They well, so some of 303 00:21:55.640 --> 00:21:59.440 the I was just thinking of some of the people who were commanded by God 304 00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:03.509 to confront wickedness, because that's what basically chandler is talking about. Pastor chandlers 305 00:22:03.910 --> 00:22:08.470 is saying, okay, you're confronting the wickedness of abortion. Well, you 306 00:22:08.630 --> 00:22:15.470 can't call it murder until you've set up all of these programs that are going 307 00:22:15.470 --> 00:22:18.339 to help those this women. That's what he means by we will serve you, 308 00:22:18.460 --> 00:22:19.980 whatever your needs are. We will, we will serve you. So 309 00:22:21.220 --> 00:22:23.940 let's think about Moses. Okay, he comes off the mountain with the Ten 310 00:22:25.059 --> 00:22:32.289 Commandments and he sees his people of Sir biling down to a false god that 311 00:22:32.369 --> 00:22:36.730 they had made right, the golden calf that they had made, and so 312 00:22:37.329 --> 00:22:45.599 Moses right away breaks the ten commandments and then offers them an idolatry, idolatry 313 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:48.119 recovery program right. Yeah, I mean of course. I mean while Whitney, 314 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:52.559 you knows. How could he tell them, you idolatrous, idolatrous people, 315 00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:57.079 you have defied a holy God, unless he first makes sure that there 316 00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:00.869 is a recovery program in place? Of course they need an idolatry cover every 317 00:23:00.990 --> 00:23:04.430 program and he would have that in place before he even right got angry through 318 00:23:04.509 --> 00:23:07.589 down the tablets. Of course, that's an absurdity that that's not what happened. 319 00:23:07.630 --> 00:23:12.460 Action are in this article and I saw the idolatry recovery program I had 320 00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:17.539 to laugh. That's that's really funny. That's really classic. But again it 321 00:23:17.579 --> 00:23:21.579 shows the absurdity of what we're talking about. And right just probably keep saying 322 00:23:21.660 --> 00:23:23.980 this because I feel I don't just throw this brother under the bus. I'm 323 00:23:23.980 --> 00:23:26.369 sure he meant well and what he's saying, but this is a learning and 324 00:23:26.650 --> 00:23:32.849 teachable moment. I think that we can just tear down some really barriers now 325 00:23:33.609 --> 00:23:37.730 and I think an important point to this and why we felt like we needed 326 00:23:37.730 --> 00:23:41.369 to tackle this, is that it is a barrier for people coming out to 327 00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:45.599 the sidewalk because they don't feel like, number one, that they're equipped to 328 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:49.240 come out to the sidewalk and be a voice for the voices. Number two, 329 00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:52.079 you listen, you're flesh and the devil will give you all kinds of 330 00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:56.990 reasons not to obey God and be a voice to the voiceless. And you 331 00:23:56.069 --> 00:24:00.069 know, I don't have the financial resources to help a mom. I mean, 332 00:24:00.150 --> 00:24:02.349 what if? What if a mom needs a place to stay and and 333 00:24:02.430 --> 00:24:04.549 I can't bring her into my house. I have so many kids already and 334 00:24:06.069 --> 00:24:07.309 and I have so much to take care of already. I can't do that. 335 00:24:07.910 --> 00:24:11.740 And so people it'll be a barrier for some people to think I can't 336 00:24:11.740 --> 00:24:15.819 say abortion is murdering go out there and stay until him not to murder their 337 00:24:15.859 --> 00:24:18.579 children, if I can't help them in this this and this way and again, 338 00:24:18.660 --> 00:24:21.859 it'll be a barrier. And you know, Moses certainly didn't have that 339 00:24:22.019 --> 00:24:26.009 as a barry as he dealt with the children of Israel and and you ultimately 340 00:24:26.970 --> 00:24:30.329 was he do? He takes the Golden Calf and grinds it into powder and 341 00:24:30.410 --> 00:24:33.690 makes them drink it. I mean that this is so shure, because that 342 00:24:33.809 --> 00:24:37.410 was he is social repecovery program this this brother was series about this, this 343 00:24:37.609 --> 00:24:41.240 thing. You know, another danger, as long as we're talking about the 344 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:44.119 dangerous because, like you said, no, we don't mean to pile on 345 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:47.079 Matt Chandler. Right, yeah, he seems like a great guy from the 346 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:49.720 little I know about him. But but this, I think, is a 347 00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:55.549 very real, impresent danger of a meme like that and the message of that 348 00:24:55.789 --> 00:25:00.710 meme. The moms themselves who are go going into abort their children use this 349 00:25:03.069 --> 00:25:08.700 excuse for why to abort their children. Just this morning I was there early. 350 00:25:10.059 --> 00:25:11.660 There was a mom who had been dropped off by a cab driver. 351 00:25:11.779 --> 00:25:17.099 So I had fifteen minutes to talk with her before they open the door and 352 00:25:17.420 --> 00:25:19.779 we had a long exchange. Most of hers were four let a word and 353 00:25:22.970 --> 00:25:26.650 telling me to shut up and that I didn't have any right to say what 354 00:25:26.809 --> 00:25:34.410 I was saying. Just what what this meme says. Because was I going 355 00:25:34.450 --> 00:25:41.279 to take care of her baby? Yeah, and I said yes. I 356 00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:47.119 said yes, not me specifically, but I have a list of names of 357 00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:52.990 mother's who want a child. Have said any mother at the abortion center who 358 00:25:52.029 --> 00:25:56.829 says I need someone to take care of my baby and then I won't aboard? 359 00:25:56.069 --> 00:26:00.750 So I am happy to provide that list with you, ma'am. And 360 00:26:00.869 --> 00:26:07.460 then she she went on to the next level. If I keep this baby, 361 00:26:07.099 --> 00:26:11.500 if I don't kill this baby. I don't think she said either kill 362 00:26:11.779 --> 00:26:15.500 or or baby, by the way, but she said, will you provide 363 00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:23.809 his college education? Again, it's the same philosophy. Unless we provide needs, 364 00:26:25.289 --> 00:26:30.329 and in fact all their needs, then they are justified in killing their 365 00:26:30.369 --> 00:26:34.319 baby, they think, and I don't think that's what probably Matt Chandler was 366 00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:41.880 saying, but they do not need to be forcibly confronted as I was, 367 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:47.390 because her heart was clearly very hard. Right and and he I think that 368 00:26:47.630 --> 00:26:52.150 me it would tell me I had no right to confront her. Yeah, 369 00:26:52.789 --> 00:26:56.150 yes, and one, since it could discourage someone like you, who were 370 00:26:56.150 --> 00:26:59.670 going out there to be a voice for the voiceless, and it would encourage 371 00:26:59.710 --> 00:27:03.019 an abortive mother to say, well, if these people can't provide for all 372 00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:07.539 my needs, then then I'm just fine, justified. I absolutely aboard. 373 00:27:07.940 --> 00:27:11.380 And if head, I've had women and men say to me, if you 374 00:27:11.460 --> 00:27:14.420 give me five thou dollars right now, won't have this abortion right. And 375 00:27:14.539 --> 00:27:18.849 it's like, okay, there's this selfishness there that we don't need to play 376 00:27:18.890 --> 00:27:22.250 into now. We don't, because we're never going to. Everybody has needs. 377 00:27:22.289 --> 00:27:26.250 We're never going to be AB Solucentis finding. So you know, I'll 378 00:27:26.289 --> 00:27:29.690 say this, and I've said this the volunteers, I've said this to myself, 379 00:27:29.730 --> 00:27:33.960 I've said this to you. If we had nothing, not a single 380 00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:38.519 resource. Thank God, maybe we'll get into some of that yet some point. 381 00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:42.039 Thank God. We have all kinds of resources here in Charlotte. You've 382 00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:47.670 got ministries, I mean we've got financial counselors that will sit down. We've 383 00:27:47.670 --> 00:27:51.950 got relationship counselors, we've got housing, ministry, clothing, food, I 384 00:27:52.029 --> 00:27:55.269 mean anything you can think of. It's amazing what God has done. Yeah, 385 00:27:55.430 --> 00:27:56.829 and they may not be like that in every city. Thankfully it's like 386 00:27:56.950 --> 00:28:00.420 that here. We thank God for that right. But if we had none 387 00:28:00.460 --> 00:28:06.140 of that, if the only thing that we had was our measily little voices 388 00:28:06.819 --> 00:28:11.259 and the only words we could eke out was don't murder your child, yeah, 389 00:28:11.740 --> 00:28:15.369 we would be still perfectly justified in standing in front of that abortion clinic. 390 00:28:15.849 --> 00:28:21.650 Why? Because abortion is murder, because it's sin, because it's wrong, 391 00:28:21.890 --> 00:28:25.009 and we're commanded to speak out against that which is sin, that which 392 00:28:25.049 --> 00:28:27.519 is wrong. Right, tell they agree. Let me go on to another 393 00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:32.920 problem. Let's go in too an okay. Let's think about Jonah okay, 394 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:38.359 going to Innova and he tells them to repent eventually. I mean at first 395 00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:41.400 he said in a way, was it. Yeah, you know, we 396 00:28:41.470 --> 00:28:44.069 went definitely ran from the Lord. He did, he did. But then 397 00:28:44.069 --> 00:28:48.589 he does go and and he tells them to repent. But before he tells 398 00:28:48.670 --> 00:28:55.819 them to repent, he sets up a crisis intervention center for bloodthirsty liars because 399 00:28:56.180 --> 00:29:00.579 he has to because because in in Jonah, one, one, two, 400 00:29:00.660 --> 00:29:04.180 two, the word of the Lord came to Jonah, the son of Amatos, 401 00:29:04.259 --> 00:29:07.500 saying arise, go to an inn of other great city and cry against 402 00:29:07.539 --> 00:29:12.930 it, for their wickedness has come up before me. And later we find 403 00:29:12.970 --> 00:29:18.690 out what that wickedness is. In Nahem, Uh Huh, chapter three, 404 00:29:18.809 --> 00:29:23.210 verse one, woe to the bloody city. He's talking about Nineveh completely full 405 00:29:23.250 --> 00:29:30.240 of lies and pillage. Her prey never depart. So their bloodthirsty, lying 406 00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:34.039 pillagers. Well, before we can call them those things, are confront them 407 00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:41.750 in their sin accord that see lying pillager crisis, ventiman center. And yeah, 408 00:29:41.829 --> 00:29:45.150 maybe they're blood maybe they're lying in bloodthirsty and pillagers because, you know, 409 00:29:45.269 --> 00:29:48.029 they don't have much. They were raising bad homes, right, maybe 410 00:29:48.029 --> 00:29:52.549 they that was their example. Yeah, they're that's that's what their father did 411 00:29:52.630 --> 00:29:55.099 right for them, my father's father. And they just don't have it. 412 00:29:55.220 --> 00:29:59.420 They just need counseling. They just need counseling. Yeah, and and maybe 413 00:29:59.460 --> 00:30:03.700 that's the case, but still, yet we know the private Jonah was to 414 00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:11.369 go and to proclaim God's truth and give a warning of the consequences if they 415 00:30:11.369 --> 00:30:14.890 are to continue in sin. Now, of course, we know them into 416 00:30:14.930 --> 00:30:17.730 the story. Jonah was not so happy, no, about this, but 417 00:30:17.890 --> 00:30:21.960 I think God was very happy that this, that Nineveh, repented before God. 418 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:25.680 Yeah, and that, you know, God was glorified in that city. 419 00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:30.319 For there is contants, a quick out intervention center there, Turk, 420 00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:33.880 without all of their needs being met and all the resources that they need. 421 00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:38.950 It exactly just by speaking truth, by obeying God, speaking truth, exposed 422 00:30:38.990 --> 00:30:45.589 using the wickedness and urging them to turn repent and turn to God. And 423 00:30:45.150 --> 00:30:49.539 there was repentance. Yeah, so amazing what God's word will do. Even 424 00:30:49.579 --> 00:30:55.500 apart from resources and stuff, God's word changes heart. Yeah, now I 425 00:30:55.539 --> 00:30:59.420 would say I will say, and we've said this before, certainly are resources. 426 00:30:59.660 --> 00:31:03.099 Resources do soften these women so to a point where some of them will 427 00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:07.369 then say, okay, they're worth hearing. Yeah, and that's how the 428 00:31:07.490 --> 00:31:11.170 resources are valuable. I think it's one of our it's one of our three 429 00:31:11.210 --> 00:31:15.569 points we're dealing with when we're training. Sidewalk counts right. You'll see it 430 00:31:15.650 --> 00:31:19.240 on the sidewalks for life those who are listening and and maybe you'll go on 431 00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:22.599 the sidewalks for life site. It's one of our first couple of articles about 432 00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:26.079 the three talking points for sidewalk counselors. Right. First one is what does 433 00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:30.240 God say about this? So bringing God's truth, God's word, to bear 434 00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:33.950 in the situation. We believe that's first and most important. Secondly, the 435 00:31:34.029 --> 00:31:38.390 humanity of the baby, talking about this is a human being, describing fetal 436 00:31:38.430 --> 00:31:41.869 development and all of that. And third is the resources that are available. 437 00:31:41.910 --> 00:31:45.630 So we talked about the resources. It's important for us to do that, 438 00:31:45.829 --> 00:31:48.940 for sure, right. Yeah. So, so our point, I think 439 00:31:48.980 --> 00:31:55.859 is, is is pretty clear that biblically, we don't see that God ever 440 00:31:56.099 --> 00:32:02.009 says don't confront evil or wickedness, don't confrol, front it boldly and don't 441 00:32:02.130 --> 00:32:10.650 confront it by speaking about it unless you have provided for the needs of those 442 00:32:12.049 --> 00:32:16.319 whom you are rebuking. He never says that. Never that I can see. 443 00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:22.759 And really our goal, and I think in likely Matt Chandler's goal, 444 00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:29.519 is to stop abortion, to to hopefully hold people back from the destructive act 445 00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:36.509 of abortion. Yeah, but meeting people's needs is never going to do that. 446 00:32:37.190 --> 00:32:43.190 The only thing that is ultimately going to end abortion, individually and as 447 00:32:43.269 --> 00:32:47.140 a nation, is the Gospel. Right. And so then getting to the 448 00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:52.259 end of that mean? It says unless we provide for needs, we don't 449 00:32:52.539 --> 00:33:00.690 fully understand the Gospel, and I would disagree with that statement. Yeah, 450 00:33:00.690 --> 00:33:05.529 absolutely, because it does the Gospel talk about. Like what is the Gospel, 451 00:33:05.569 --> 00:33:08.210 Daniel, right? I mean I mentioned it earlier about the apostle. 452 00:33:08.250 --> 00:33:13.440 Paul tells us with the Gospel that he preached is, and he says it's 453 00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:15.680 the Gospel in which we stand. Yeah, so the it's the Death Bury 454 00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:22.400 Own resurrection of Jesus Preaching The Gospel. Now, just hear what I'm saying. 455 00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:25.240 Don't hear what I'm not saying. Those you're listening preaching the Gospel does 456 00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:34.910 not include meeting People's physical needs. Right now, meeting people's physical needs can 457 00:33:34.950 --> 00:33:40.500 be a means to bring the Gospel to people, and meeting people's physical needs 458 00:33:42.140 --> 00:33:46.380 is a necessary component of those who have themselves receive the Gospel, like it's 459 00:33:46.380 --> 00:33:51.859 going to be a natural outflow of our hearts if we have something. You 460 00:33:51.940 --> 00:33:53.940 know, John says it in First John. He says if you see your 461 00:33:54.019 --> 00:33:59.089 brother in need and you don't meet his needs and you say well, go 462 00:33:59.250 --> 00:34:01.529 and be warm and filled, then the love of God doesn't abide in you. 463 00:34:01.609 --> 00:34:07.529 So obviously if you have something and your brother needs it bread. If 464 00:34:07.569 --> 00:34:09.760 you have bread, to loads of bread, and somebody needs it and you 465 00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:14.840 don't give it to him, then that's just evidence that you've not really understood 466 00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:17.119 the Gospel, your Heart's not been changed, because the Gospel has to do 467 00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:22.079 with us be rather than being a selfish person, becoming a selfless person, 468 00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:25.590 because we see the selfless act that the son of God did about giving his 469 00:34:25.789 --> 00:34:32.110 life on the cross for us. Yeah, but meeting people's physical needs is 470 00:34:32.190 --> 00:34:36.909 a means to bring the Gospel to people and to show them that we're genuine. 471 00:34:36.989 --> 00:34:39.300 Right. It kind of I don't say it validates the Gospel. It 472 00:34:39.420 --> 00:34:45.139 just validates those who are bringing the Gospel. But the Gospel itself is very 473 00:34:45.179 --> 00:34:46.900 simple. We make it so complex, to make it so hard. You 474 00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:50.500 got to do this and you got to do that, and you got to 475 00:34:50.579 --> 00:34:52.650 say this and you got to say that and you've got to have this program 476 00:34:52.769 --> 00:34:57.369 in place and you've got to have this other program in place, to the 477 00:34:57.409 --> 00:35:01.130 point where, you know, our churches are full of social programs, children's 478 00:35:01.170 --> 00:35:05.809 programs, youth programs, all these programs and we think, well, these 479 00:35:05.849 --> 00:35:09.159 are what make up a church, and so a church has to have a 480 00:35:09.559 --> 00:35:14.920 kids program youth program of Elderly People Program and all this in order to be 481 00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:17.360 a church. No, to be a church you've got to be people who 482 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:21.949 are bought by the blood of Jesus, who've come into a relationship with Jesus 483 00:35:22.030 --> 00:35:25.510 by the Gospel that's proclaiming God's word and it has, you, Biblical leadership 484 00:35:25.550 --> 00:35:30.070 and that sort of thing. It's the Gospel that's at the center of the 485 00:35:30.110 --> 00:35:35.150 Church. It's not this, I hate it. This, this this concept 486 00:35:35.230 --> 00:35:40.380 of the Social Gospel. Yeah, it's it's so foreign to what the apostles 487 00:35:40.420 --> 00:35:45.820 were preaching right in the New Testament, so foreign from what Jesus preached. 488 00:35:45.940 --> 00:35:50.449 Now again, please don't hear what I'm not what I'm not saying. I'm 489 00:35:50.489 --> 00:35:53.090 not saying we shouldn't meet People's physical needs. I'm just saying that that's not 490 00:35:53.610 --> 00:35:58.650 part of the Gospels. Never, let's the outflow correct. It is is 491 00:35:58.769 --> 00:36:00.130 never, at least seem to God, with the Gospel. Now, yeah, 492 00:36:00.210 --> 00:36:04.960 it is never linked and and that's what I think the meme does. 493 00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:12.000 That's damaging. It links the ability to confront evil and the in fact the 494 00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:16.880 command to confront evil with a Social Justice Program Yeah, and and the Gospel 495 00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:22.469 just doesn't say that, right. We are to confront evil word, to 496 00:36:22.989 --> 00:36:28.949 convict people of sin, where to once they're convicted of sin, to talk 497 00:36:28.949 --> 00:36:32.940 about the just penalty for sin, once they understand that, to talk about 498 00:36:34.219 --> 00:36:38.500 how repentant and submission of a life to Jesus Christ, who died to pay 499 00:36:38.579 --> 00:36:45.300 the penalty for their sin, and that when he rose again, he conquered 500 00:36:45.380 --> 00:36:49.610 death and showed that he was God. Yeah, and the Holy Spirit enters 501 00:36:49.690 --> 00:36:53.409 and dwells us. And we are to go and make disciples of the world, 502 00:36:54.409 --> 00:37:00.289 not through social programs, right, but through continuing to preach that really 503 00:37:00.369 --> 00:37:05.199 pretty simple message. Yeah, that is it's very simple message. And you 504 00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:07.719 know, we believe that's why we say that's why this is the Gospel Center 505 00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.920 pro life podcast. This is why we say as a ministry, Cities for 506 00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:16.269 Life is a Gospel Centered Ministry. Is because we believe it's the Gospel that 507 00:37:16.429 --> 00:37:21.550 changes a mother's heart. Right, it's not just, you know, the 508 00:37:21.670 --> 00:37:24.949 idea of social programs that's going to change your heart. It's going to show 509 00:37:25.030 --> 00:37:30.219 her that abortion isn't is an option in the sight of God, but it's 510 00:37:30.460 --> 00:37:34.860 God, by his spirit, coming into her heart, change in her heart 511 00:37:35.380 --> 00:37:39.059 and showing her her need for him. She surrenders to him. Now it 512 00:37:39.940 --> 00:37:44.369 never is that. You know, we goose. We've been accused of this. 513 00:37:44.929 --> 00:37:47.050 You ask, you tell people. Unless you ask Jesus into your life, 514 00:37:47.090 --> 00:37:50.369 right, unless you get saved, lets you become a Christian, we 515 00:37:50.409 --> 00:37:52.329 won't help you. That's not true, right, because we do have help. 516 00:37:52.449 --> 00:37:55.650 We do have, as I talked about earlier, all kinds of resources 517 00:37:55.769 --> 00:38:00.079 and stuff. So I mean it would make no sense for us not to 518 00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:05.719 help an atheist, someone who remained an atheist, with the practical resources, 519 00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:07.760 because that's another opportunity for us to share the Gospel. Right, and as 520 00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:10.320 we're giving out if we're doing a baby shower, we have a baby shower 521 00:38:10.360 --> 00:38:14.469 ministry. We do a baby shower, we're proclaiming the Gospel right now. 522 00:38:14.510 --> 00:38:16.230 Doesn't mean the whole time. We're talking about sin and we're talking about Jesus, 523 00:38:16.269 --> 00:38:21.469 Death Bearing resurrection, but we are clearly presenting the Gospel, not just 524 00:38:21.630 --> 00:38:23.869 in given her baby stuff and saying Jesus loves you. We are laying out 525 00:38:24.070 --> 00:38:28.980 the Gospel that the Bible tells us is the Gospel. Yep, we're talking 526 00:38:29.019 --> 00:38:31.780 about sin, we're talking about the need for righteousness. We're talking about the 527 00:38:31.860 --> 00:38:35.739 need to turn to the Lord Jesus and put your faith in him. That's 528 00:38:35.739 --> 00:38:38.059 right, that's right. And and if they don't, we take back off 529 00:38:38.099 --> 00:38:40.690 a gift. Yeah, that's what you're going to give them. Give us 530 00:38:40.730 --> 00:38:44.969 that stuff back. I'm going to give it to somebody who will said Jesus, 531 00:38:45.650 --> 00:38:49.889 that's that's ridiculous, that's absurd. Right, but everything we do needs 532 00:38:49.889 --> 00:38:53.889 to be seasoned with the Gospel and our motivation is, you know, one 533 00:38:53.969 --> 00:38:58.679 preacher said, you know, if you bake someone a cake and you give 534 00:38:58.760 --> 00:39:00.400 them a cake and you do it out of the love of your heart and 535 00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:05.159 loving your heart and your love for Jesus, and you just leaving with a 536 00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:07.159 cake and you're not sharing the Gospel with them, you've sent them to hell 537 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:12.269 with a cake. And Yeah, good is that? Yeah, a lot 538 00:39:12.349 --> 00:39:19.989 of our Social Gospel sort of preaching and this motivation. And again, I'm 539 00:39:20.070 --> 00:39:22.150 not saying we shouldn't have social programs. I mean if you look at the 540 00:39:22.829 --> 00:39:28.820 you know all the things over the years in Christian history, the things that 541 00:39:28.900 --> 00:39:32.059 have been birthed out of Christianity, you almost can't name. You know, 542 00:39:32.099 --> 00:39:37.219 I've in challenge. Atheist named for me five organizations that help poor people, 543 00:39:37.659 --> 00:39:40.610 and I would bet you at least three of those five are Christian or rooted 544 00:39:40.650 --> 00:39:45.610 in Christianity. So almost all humanitarian day is it's a Christian so that's float 545 00:39:45.650 --> 00:39:50.409 out of an innocence, a natural outflow. But this idea that you know, 546 00:39:50.489 --> 00:39:53.840 this Social Gospel, is the Gospel is, is again completely foreign to 547 00:39:54.199 --> 00:39:59.599 the biblical concept of proclaiming the Gospel Right, right, and so you know, 548 00:39:59.639 --> 00:40:04.159 we are called to bring to bear the truth of who Jesus is and 549 00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:08.110 to give people an opportunity, by appealing to to them by the Holy Spirit, 550 00:40:08.190 --> 00:40:12.230 to turn to the Lord Jesus. And don't shrink back from the fact 551 00:40:12.230 --> 00:40:14.829 that if you're a believer, the Holy Spirit and dwells you and, like 552 00:40:14.909 --> 00:40:19.989 we said earlier, guide you in all righteousness. And you do know wickedness, 553 00:40:20.230 --> 00:40:22.340 you do know right, you do know right from wrong, you do 554 00:40:22.579 --> 00:40:29.820 know evil and you are called by God to rescue those that are on a 555 00:40:29.860 --> 00:40:32.579 path of destruction. And how can you do it if you don't name evil, 556 00:40:32.739 --> 00:40:36.570 call it what it is? Yeah, and then rescue those on that 557 00:40:36.690 --> 00:40:39.250 terrible path. Yeah, absolutely, it's what we're called to do. It's 558 00:40:39.250 --> 00:40:43.969 what the church is called to do. We're called to proclaim the Gospel, 559 00:40:44.050 --> 00:40:47.489 to make disciples of all nations, as the Scripture says, right. And 560 00:40:47.969 --> 00:40:52.000 you know, if we have the means to meet practical needs, we don't 561 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:57.599 do because it's the Gospel, we do it because it's a natural outflow of 562 00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:01.079 who we are, what God has done in us. Yeah, and you 563 00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:05.550 know, and I want to encourage all you guys who are listening who maybe 564 00:41:05.630 --> 00:41:07.150 this is a barrier to you, maybe thinking, you know, I can't 565 00:41:07.150 --> 00:41:10.070 meet this need, I can't do that, I can't do this that. 566 00:41:10.429 --> 00:41:15.070 You know what, through that aside, abortion is murder. Yeah, you 567 00:41:15.230 --> 00:41:20.099 have a voice. Those babies that are murdered. Don't Goole in your voice 568 00:41:20.500 --> 00:41:24.019 right now. I get it, because some folks a barrier to them as 569 00:41:24.019 --> 00:41:28.019 they see some of the some of the other folks who are involved at abortion 570 00:41:28.059 --> 00:41:31.820 clinics or abortion ministry that are just pretty pretty nasty about it. You know, 571 00:41:31.889 --> 00:41:35.730 we've got a guy locally we may have mentioned, who, you know, 572 00:41:36.130 --> 00:41:37.969 stands in front of the abortion clinic and just yells about murder and it's 573 00:41:37.969 --> 00:41:42.010 just it's over the top. It's not helpful. So I get it. 574 00:41:42.090 --> 00:41:44.090 Maybe that's a barrier to some of you people. You don't want to be 575 00:41:44.090 --> 00:41:46.130 associated with that. I get it. Understand that. And that's a question 576 00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:50.360 of tone. Yeah, I think more than anything, more than the message, 577 00:41:50.360 --> 00:41:52.239 even more than the words, is the tone and and the and the 578 00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:59.119 motivation behind it. If if your motivation and your tone is angry and condemning, 579 00:41:59.559 --> 00:42:01.309 that that's not what we're talking about. But Ye, say confront sin. 580 00:42:01.510 --> 00:42:06.110 Yeah, yeah, can confront sin, as Jesus did just matter of 581 00:42:06.150 --> 00:42:07.949 factly, this is right, this is wrong. Turn from it. Yeah, 582 00:42:08.030 --> 00:42:10.309 absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, I get that. They're 583 00:42:10.349 --> 00:42:14.550 all kinds of barriers and when the future will talk about some more of those 584 00:42:14.590 --> 00:42:16.860 barriers. We talk about, and we have before, about the what we 585 00:42:16.980 --> 00:42:22.380 believe biblically's the proper tone, and think things that say that you can say 586 00:42:22.420 --> 00:42:25.980 that are really helpful. But this idea that, you know, you have 587 00:42:27.059 --> 00:42:29.699 to meet everybody's needs, or you have to have social programs, you have 588 00:42:29.820 --> 00:42:32.889 to be willing to you know, whatever you know, people think they need 589 00:42:32.929 --> 00:42:37.289 to be willing to do in order to speak out against murder of children. 590 00:42:37.730 --> 00:42:40.369 It's just it's just a misconception. That's wrong and you know, I think 591 00:42:40.409 --> 00:42:45.280 in this sense. You know, if I could have a conversation with Matt 592 00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:47.079 Chandler, I would let him know I hate hey man, will this back 593 00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:51.960 a little bit because because it can be a barrier for people right and because 594 00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:54.800 he's got some good messages about abortion, powerful messages. He's got a big 595 00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:59.389 church there that you know he's not holding back the truth. It is not 596 00:42:59.590 --> 00:43:01.190 justifying a portion, which is awesome. Yeah, I'm encouraged by some of 597 00:43:01.230 --> 00:43:06.510 the stuff I hear from him and appreciate the brother what I know of him. 598 00:43:07.070 --> 00:43:09.630 And and so we're not saying don't listen to him anymore. We're just 599 00:43:10.030 --> 00:43:14.659 springboard and off of that to help you guys. Hopefully this was a blessing 600 00:43:14.699 --> 00:43:16.699 to you guys. You got anything else you want to touch on? Pretty 601 00:43:16.739 --> 00:43:20.219 much, though. Okay, pretty much everything. I yeah. Well, 602 00:43:20.300 --> 00:43:22.139 great. Well, we hope you guys were blessed by this podcast. Hope 603 00:43:22.179 --> 00:43:25.579 you're blessed by our other podcast. We hope that you guys will share these 604 00:43:25.699 --> 00:43:30.210 podcasts. We're trying to put out content. We put out a podcast every 605 00:43:30.250 --> 00:43:32.570 week Thursday morning. We were doing Wednesday morning. It's just a lot easier 606 00:43:32.610 --> 00:43:36.329 for me to put them out on Thursday mornings. So I do that and 607 00:43:37.250 --> 00:43:38.929 hope you guys are blessed and hope you're blessed enough to share it. Leave 608 00:43:38.969 --> 00:43:46.000 us a review in apple podcasts APP or in the Google podcast APP or wherever 609 00:43:46.039 --> 00:43:50.639 you listen to podcasts, and let us know what you think. You reach 610 00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:52.800 out to me, reach out to Vicki. Let us know if there's some 611 00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:55.510 subjects you want us to cover, if there's something we may be just kind 612 00:43:55.550 --> 00:43:58.829 of went over real quickly and you want to get in more in depth. 613 00:43:58.909 --> 00:44:01.389 We'd love to hear those suggestions from you. I'M D parks at cities for 614 00:44:01.469 --> 00:44:06.230 lifecom. She's V Cosi Org. That's her email address. We cost you 615 00:44:06.309 --> 00:44:09.340 work at cities for lifecom. As always, you can visit our wwe bea 616 00:44:09.579 --> 00:44:14.820 dot sidewalks, the number four lifecom website, where we post a lot of 617 00:44:14.860 --> 00:44:20.300 articles and things about what we talked about on the podcast and sidewalk counseling and 618 00:44:20.420 --> 00:44:22.699 so anyway, we hope you guys were blessed. I hope you have a 619 00:44:22.820 --> 00:44:38.639 good week and, God bless give me our love for love, give me 620 00:44:39.400 --> 00:44:52.639 our love for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's 621 00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:54.389 too precious and some met you