Understanding the Mindset of Women Who Have Abortions

0:00 But you can also turn that around to help make your case, because I will often first of all sympathize. I think you feel betrayed by this guy who who said he loved you and then is like pain for you to kill your baby. I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. And Me, Lord, I am yours, I am yours. I'm welcome to the Gospel Center Pro Life Podcast, a podcast designed to equip, encourage and challenge you in pro life ministry, and always with a focus on the Gospel. Stay tuned. I felt show passish, touch your heart, use me love. Welcome back to the Gospel centered pro life podcast. I'm Daniel Park's the West Coast Regional Shepherd for love life. That's my current role, but really have a heart for the sidewalk ministry, and with me is Vicky Kessi York, who serves as a love life missionary here in Charlotte, North Carolina. Both of us have been doing sidewalk outreach ministry at local abortion centers combined. How many years? Vicky? Almost twenty, I think. Okay, now more than that. Twenty five. Yeah, you're fifteen, I'm almost ten years. So we've been out there a while between the two of us. Yeah, yeah, so we've learned a lot, supposedly we should

1:30 have. Yeah, we've made a lot of mistakes right, and we've seen the Lord very graciously use us to help save babies and bring moms and dad's to the knowledge of Jesus. And so we think that for those that are listening, we can add some value to what you're doing in your outreach ministry at local abortion centers, and so that's what we do with these podcasts. We try to encourage you, we try to challenge you, and so this episode we're going to seek to do that. So what are we going to talk about in this episode? Well, one of the most important things really that I think we all should be aware of when we're in front of different abortion centers, and that's what is the mindset of the women who are going in, because that's going to affect how and what we call out if we can get in to the mindset of the women. So this actually did come up a little bit recently when someone sent both of us some information about an abortion center that was a late term abortion center and she said how should I speak to them? Would it be different? And I was just thinking, Hey, we would always still call out the three talk key talking points.

2:46 But then, Daniel, you brought up, I think, a really important point. The mindset of a woman in a late term abortion is probably going to be a little bit different. Yeah, maybe a lot different from the mindset of women in a first trimester. Yeah, abortion. And so, knowing that, I think we could increase our effectiveness if we can somehow figure out what's going through their hearts, in their head. Yeah, of course, with any scenario, and you just kind of brought up a different scenario. But yeah, there's a different mindset and the people you're going to be reaching out to, depending on the area of the country that you're in, there can be different mindset. Yeah, things like that. There's a lot of stuff to consider. Yeah, and the best we can do to get in the mindset of someone else, especially, you know, I'm a guy, Dylan, mainly with women going into the abortion center. Right, sometimes we reach out to the man, but we're trying to reach the women.

3:40 Right, it's really hard for me to get in that mindset. But even if I was able to, the best I could do is just kind of get a general idea of the mindset. Yeah, there's a course and understanding that everyone is different. Everyone's circumstances, the women that are going in, the men that are going into the abortion center, their circumstances are different. Everybody's kind of upbringing is different. So there's a lot of mindsets that can be going on simultaneously at the same place, in the same moment. But we have to do the best we can to get a general idea of the mindset of the women that were reaching out the abortion senters. Right, and I think that in developing this article we're drawing on our experience. There are maybe five or six main things that we always see. Yeah, and and those were the things that we wanted to focus on, because some people may think that, for example, saying Oh, congratulations, you must be so thrilled your pregnant. Well, that's not getting into the mindset of the mom and that can be very kind productive. Yeah, so anyway, so that's why we wrote this article and are doing this podcast. Is you think it's valuable to be able to speak to the women with a sense of what they're feeling? Yeah, where they're coming from. Again, we're generalizing of necessity.

5:04 Would would that touch someone? Congratulations, you know, your pregnant, congratulations your mom going into the abortions. That I could that touch someone? Could that be what and what they need to hear? I could probably not. Gonna yeah, but again, the best that we can do is speak as general and as specific as possible, and I think in this podcast what we want to encourage you guys to do is to be thinking and praying through Lord. What is the mindset of the women that I'm encountering at the Abortion Center? Yeah, help help me, Lord, to get into that mindset so that I know the things that I could say, in the moments that I say them that would really touch that woman's heart. Yeah. Yeah, and I think one of the most predominant emotions that I see and that I hear when I speak to the women who do stop and talk with with me, is beer. Yeah, they're afraid. Right there. This was completely unplanned in a well, really every case, almost every case, they they're usually in pretty awful circumstances. Right they're looking not at the precious life of that child really at all. That's really not entering their head. What is entering their head is, I can't do this. Look at all the struggles in front of me, what am I going to do? In the case of young kids or teenagers who are pregnant, they're thinking, my mom's going

6:34 to kill me. Yeah, I'm going to get kicked out of the house where she's literally going to kill me. Now, hear that a lot. Yeah, from a teenage or, you know, my friends are think less of me. Or right, right, whatever the scenario might be, they just can't go to school. My boyfriend's going to leave me. He's not at all ready for a baby. Yeah, there's a lot of fear that surrounds an unplanned pregnancy. Yeah, no doubt about it. Yeah, and you know, we have to understand that. We have to do the best we can to get in that mindset, not that we ourselves want to be afraid, although we know that we've dealt with fears before. Yeah, I want to try to get in the mindset of someone in this scenario who's afraid, who doesn't want to tell their parents, who doesn't want to be found out that they're pregnant. Getting into this mindset. Understanding this mindset does not justify the thinking. So I just want to make sure that's clear. That's a good point. These mindsets a lot of times are sinful mindsets. Yeah, they're not mindsets that are surrounded by faith and trust in God. And whether they're sinful or not, they're just not the correct mindsets to have.

7:44 US trying to get into those monthsts and understand those mindsets. Does not justify them, right, any mindset that would lead someone to kill another person. Yeah, we should not justify that mindset. Right, it's not a good mindset, right, but it would help us to understand that mindset so that we can give some answers and we could ask some questions that would help change the mindset. That's ultimately the intention behind looking at these monsets. Want to see those mindsets change. Identify the mindset. I think sometimes if if you can say I know you're afraid, that instantly makes them feel okay, they're understood because I guarantee they're afraid. There is a level of fear of some sort in those women, and so identifying it first, I know you're afraid, but God is a God who can help you to overcome fear. And then maybe, like the example that we use in the article is that I had read somewhere. I don't know if this is true, but that the word the phrase do not fear is in the Bible three hundred sixty five times, which interesting, one for every day of the year. Yeah, but you know, you think of the most famous in air quotes unplanned pregnancy in the Bible is, of course, Mary with baby. G Says Yeah, and the angel appears to her and one of the first things he says is do not fear. Yeah, that is a powerful message for us to be mind the women of. God tells us over and over again in the Bible, and he's telling people when they're in very heart circumstances. What does he

9:18 say? Do not fear. Yeah. So I think if we can identify you are afraid and God is a God who tells us over and over again don't be afraid because he does have the answer. Yeah, I think that is instantly a really valuable message. Yeah, the women to hear. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. And this kind of goes back to trying to understand this mindset of fear and the other mindsets we're going to talk about and try to enter into that mindset right again, not embracing or validating, but entering in for the sake of being able to reach the women that were reaching out to speaks to that whole component I'll talk about in some of our trainings of compassion, right, suffering with them. That's what the word compassion means.

10:03 The word passion means suffering and the word calm is with and so to have compassion is to suffer with them. You can, you can more easily suffer with someone, like enter into their suffering, the pain that they're feeling in their heart with them, if you can get into that mindset. And for some of us it's not it's not that hard to do, right. We can remember back when we had unplanned pregnancy, plan pregnancy situation, or some that have had abortions. Can have compassion. You can enter into the mindset of a woman that has had an abortion or that is having going to have an abortion, because you've been there, right yeah, so you can remember back again, you're not validating the way that you were thinking back then, but you're trying to enter into that mindset and think, okay, in those days when I was considering abortion, what were some of the things that someone could have said to me that would change my mindset? Right? So that's that's what we're talking about, right yeah, and just being able to relate, like you said, that showing that compassions for relating with them.

11:00 I remember when I was in an unplanned pregnancy and I saw that pink line. I was terrified. Yeah, and so they're not alone. The feeling is not invalidated. The feeling is there, it's real for them, but there is a solution. Yeah, and so we're there to counsel them through that feeling and hopefully beyond that. I think fear is particularly and in an important mindset to know about, because fear is often expressed as anger. That's the second mindset that we're going to talk about, and we do see that all the time. Oh yeah, most of the women are furious with us.

11:45 Yeah, yeah, I want to mention before we moved to anger, and I think this is probably a good seguey to it, but trying to think in the mindset of fear, what are some of the things going on in a person's life who is under fear, under what I believe the Bible would call a spirit of fear, because there's fear, there's being afraid and then there's like this spirit of fear and maybe it's a demonic power, and I think it probably is. That really is irrational, right, and so we think about phobias and things like that's in a rational fear, but what I'm talking about is irrational actions. Right. So you can talk to a woman added abortion center and, and I know you've experienced this, many of them are staunchly opposed to abortion. Right, except for their situation. Right, right, and when you break down their situation, it's really no worse than either of the other situations, to fairly common situation. Again, not to minimize the situations for sure, but what's going on there? Like, they don't agree with abortion, they believe it's wrong, they've been taught that it's wrong. They would never have an abortion except for this situation. Well, what's going on is a spirit of fear. They're under a spirit of fear. And the Bible says, and you guys know this, this scripture well, I'm sure, Second Timothy one seven, for God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind.

13:03 And I we did a podcast about this long time ago. We talked about being under a spirit of fear. But I just want to remind you, guys. When someone is under a spirit of fear, when they have a mindset of fear and their mind in their life is kind of introuded in fear. Power, that's like control of the situation, the ability, power to do the right thing morally in the situation. Love, that's love for your baby, love for your neighbor, love for others, love for yourself, even love for God, love for God, of course. Yeah, and sound mindedness. Those three things go out the door when you embrace the spirit of fear, power, love and sound mindedness. Yeah, that's how you can talk to a woman going into the abortion center and she'll tell you abortion is terrible, it's wrong, and yet she's going to do it and you're like that's not sound thinking. Right, right. or You can talk to a woman who, in one instance, is she was going to get her teeth cleaned at a dentist. Would never go to a dentist that she didn't know the dentist name and know the track record of the dentist. Right, very, very careful about what she should subjects herself to. And yet if you ask her who, do you know? Who the WHO? The doctor is going to be at the abortion clinic? No, I have no clues. Like that's not sound that you would subject yourself to a very invasive procedure in the most vulnerable, vulnerable position a woman could be in, by the way, before a doctor you don't even know their name, their track record or anything that's not sound. But people will and we've done it before, right, we've been subjected to a spirit of fear and we've done things

14:37 that are in contrast to power, love and sound mindedness. Right, one of the things I'll often say is you rarely make a good decision from a fearful position. So try to help them to work through that fear. Absolutely, move beyond that. But so we ready to move into Agar them. Okay, so anger is we all all experience it from the women out there, and while the anger can be coming from many sources, it's it's very often out of fear. Yeah, they're responding out of fear and the anger is usually not really towards us. Right, where the the safe object to pour that anger out upon? But they're really angry at we've said this so many times, that the boyfriend at the circumstances there in it, or a God, yeah, God yourself. Yeah, a lot of times it is.

15:30 If you if you really dig into the the situation, it really ask questions, you'll find that their anger is is a lot of times with the Lord, Right. Their anger a lot of times is with themselves, and you just so happened to be a representative of God, the one who they're angry with. That's why, you know, they don't know you from Adam, as they say. Why would they be angry at you? You know you're standing out there. Maybe. I mean, have had people yelling at me going into the abortion center and I haven't even opened my mouth yet. I'm not holding a sign or anything right, and so why are they angry at me that I haven't even said anything to him? It's because I represent the one whom they're really angry with, the Lord, and my presence, your presence out there, is holding up a standard of truth. So they're angry with themselves and they're angry with God and holding up that standard of truth, because they know why you're there. They know that they shouldn't be there and you represent Ah, the one who they're accountable to. That's why they get angry. Again, it's not sound thinking, right, but it is the mindset, this angry mindset, that we have to be aware of.

16:38 Yeah, and knowing that helps in many in many ways. First of all, it helps you to know it's not personal right, they're not really angry at you, they're angry at a whole host of other things. But secondly, knowing that is a mindset you're going to encounter and it's not against you personally. Sometimes you may not be able to make a difference in that anger. There are some people that beat themselves up thinking they've caused the anger. You haven't. You haven't caused the anger unless you're purposely doing so. I mean, I guess there are counselors that will go out there and say things that really do stir up anger. But our desire, that's why we really counsel or train our counselors, to be gentle in their language, be truthful, but don't purposely use words that are going to insight anger, because anger is always already there and it this is a real crisis situation and and it's a powder keg where just the littlest thing could really set people off because they're already so angry. So the things will counsel when you encounter anger, a gentle answer turns away breath. That is, I think, one of the best oh absolutely keep in our mind yeah, yeah, of course, again, understanding this mindsets. They're so not being not being taken off guard.

17:56 There are people angry, I mean they're there are people that show up to the sidewalk to do ministry, thinking somehow that they're going to be the the the savior of the world and all these women are going to flock to them and everybody's going to be so happy that they're out there and then they find out very quickly that some people are pretty angry that they're out there. And to be be aware of this mindset of anger, the mindset of fear and the other mindsets are going to talk about. Don't be offended if people are angry at you because, listen, it's not about you. You're holding up a standard of truth. And then just don't take it personal. That's probably one of the main things when you encounter this mindset, this angry mindset. Don't take it personal. Yeah, and you know, do what the Bible says. Soft answer turns away wrath. Be Willing to hear. I mean, I've had women literally spitting and cussing in my face and I just calm down, give it to the Lord. I don't answer and anger back, and God diffuses the stuff right away. Now I've also responded back in anger to anger and yeah, it doesn't definitely go so well. It does not go well where I have found if you put up your hands, you know, in a surrender yeah kind of expression and and say we're here offering help and then start listening how we can help, that often diffuses it. Yeah, can, because they really they it's hard to be angry with someone who's offering you wonderful things. Not Every facility and not every Sidebach team is going

19:27 to have a whole lot of help to offer. Are Outside, of course, the Gospel reding on what kind of mentorship program would what kind of church back and you have whatever. But if there is help to offer, having that at the ready, yeah, for them, I think really does go a long way towards diffusing yeah, anger. Yeah, absolutely. You're always going to encounter, without a doubt, people saying you're here making women feel guilty, right, and so that's the next mindset. Yeah, and I guarantee we are not there causing the guilt. That is something that they are feeling because honestly, that's natural. They're doing something that's they know everyone knows in their heart, yeah, that killing their own child is wrong. Right.

20:18 Yeah, and so guilty is the natural reaction of a conscience that God has instilled in every one of us to discern right from wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Let me point out to though, this is a common mindset. There's also a mindset, and I don't think you have it on here. Okay, but this is kind of like maybe the the flip side of guilt is this sort of brazenness, this sort of seared conscience, where they they're feeling nothing. Right, yeah, numbness maybe, or just obstinate is a mindset. Yeah, and so maybe we'll talk about that a little more. But I do want to talk about guilt in the sense this. I know, especially in our American Christianity, we have this idea and maybe we've been taught this in our churches at somehow guilt is a bad thing, that no one should ever feel shame or guilt. Well, that's not what the Bible says. Actually, people should feel guilt when they're doing things that they're guilty for. Right when someone schedules now, again, I'm not minimizing circumstances.

21:23 I'm a compassionate person, right I'll try to get in the mindset of these women and meet them where they're at. But if someone has scheduled an appointment to murder their own child, they should feel guilty, right. There should be guilt. Yeah, if someone murders their child through abortion, there should be there is guilt, whether they feel it or not. They're guilty to God and there should be shame, like you should be ashamed of doing things like that. But that shame and guilt is intended by God to lead us to him, the one who can relieve shame and guilt. What happens is the devil kind of flips it on its head and makes that shame and guilt become condemnation where there's no there's no hope of restoration. I've said it before.

22:08 Guilt or conviction is guilt or shame with the hope of restoration. Condemnation is guilt or shame without the hope of restoration. Right, there's always hope of restoration in God. But I will say a guilty mindset is something that you can work with, like you can. You can speak to that and you can speak to especially when you're dealing with a woman that's going into the abortion center. It's a little different when they're coming out after they've had the abortion as they're going in and you encounter a guilty mindset. You can play on that and say things like you don't have to feel guilty because you can leave this place, right, and you can ask questions. Okay, if you're feeling guilty, why do you think that is? Yeah, why do you think you're feeling guilt? It's because you know that what you're doing is wrong, right. Yeah, and so you can, you can, you can build on that foundation of guilt. Guilt is not a as, not a place that people should stay, right. They should go from guilt to restoration, and we, who have the Gospel, can lead them there, right, we can lead them to the Lord. Yeah, but the idea that guilt is altogether bad is just a false notion. Yeah, and and guilt shows conflict. So that's why it's such a positive thing if they're admitting that there they are feeling guilty, and I've had them say that I'm feeling guilty. I don't know why I've had them say that to me before.

23:33 If they're feeling guilt, I'll say that is so wonderful because it shows that your conscience is open to God's prompting and the holy spirits prompting and and try to remember a time in your life or times in your life when you don't feel guilt. What are those things that you're doing? And they'll describe things that are good. Yeah, and you don't feel guilt, and reminding them that that is at which would you prefer to feel? And every everyone would prefer to feel a clear conscience. So so again pointing out the guilt, knowing it's there but that you haven't caused it, and and offering them how they could avoid continuing down that path of having a guilty conscience before God.

24:17 Yeah, which is by doing the right thing. Something that I think many of the women experience, again, almost all of them, is they have been betrayed. They have a sense of betrayal. They've been often betrayed by the guy who said he loved them and really was just using them, right, and they have figured that out. Betrayal by parents, by friends, yea, and they by God. They feel betrayed by God. I've heard them say so many times. God didn't have to let me become pregnant, he could have stopped it. Yeah, so they feel betrayed because they think often they think they're good people right, that are not at all responsible for or they're not claiming responsibility, rightful responsibility for, why they're in the situation that they're in. Yeah, yeah, I mean, and that's something again, we have to deal with. Yeah, in reality, if you have sex outside of marriage, you've betrayed the Lord. Right, you've betrayed your own conscience that God graciously gave you. But of course, the enemy with his lies and the human human are in our flesh. We turn things upside down, right, and so this betrayal and that that they've been betrayed by God is it's a false notion, but to something we have to answer, we have to talk about and in sense that like the way you answer that is, you know God, that God hasn't betrayed you. God has a plan for you and for this child. What if it's this child that God is going to use in your life to turn things right side up? Yeah, you know. And so we talk about trust and we deal with fear,

25:48 we deal with guilt, we bring it to trust, trust the Lord. Yeah, yeah, and talking about betrayal from family members and things like that, obviously when we're talking about, you know, about the resources and the things that we have, you've got parents who, in all intents and purposes, that's to support people that are supposed to be there for her. When she gets in a difficult situation, ie. An unplanned pregnancy, like those people should be there, but they betray her and that that is really a betrayal. When a when when parents tell their kid, you can't live in our house because you're pregnant, that is a betrayal. It knows, I'm not going to point the finger at all parents that do that. Maybe there's some reasons for that or whatever, but for the most part that's a betrayal. And so how do we answer that? How do we counteract that?

26:36 Well, we share resources. If you've been kicked out, we're not here to betray you, we're here to help you. We're here to try to step in where those support people have been kind of pulled out from under you. Yeah, and here's some resources, here's a housing ministry. I think just recently you took a young lady to a housing ministry, to a resource that could help her in a situation like that. So ss to trail in her life and was currently living in a with a guy who had betrayed her, and they'll often get try eyed and say yes, and but, and then I'll say, well, you know, a parent, just what you were saying, Daniel. A parent, or you know, a loved one, is supposed to protect and and show self less behavior towards the person that they claim to love or that should be loved, the One Who protects and loves them. Well, what about a mother? Yeah, towards her child. Think about what that child is in a place that God perfectly designed to be a place of protection, and a mother's really natural instinct is given by God to protect and nurture that child in the womb. Look at what's about to happen here. That is a indeed at betrayal. Yeah, if you towards an innocent, vulnerable human being, you see how betrayal leads to such a terrible and do you want to be a part of that right?

28:02 Yeah, yeah, and I think, I mean, there's a lot more to this article, but I think we'll end with this last point. Okay, and maybe I'll give some maybe some closing thoughts about the mindsets and things. Just some things. Are you guys to be thinking about. But one of the mind sets that we do have to deal with, you have listed in this article, is feeling overwhelmed. Yeah, can we have to understand that a lot of these women, the world has fallen down around them. Right there. Support people are support network has betrayed them. They're under a spirit of fear, they're young, they don't know where to turn, what to do. They got on Google and the first thing that popped up was a preferred woman's help center, a plan parenthood will solve all your problems.

28:47 Right. They've just they've just been overwhelmed with the circumstance. For many of the women, it's like it's not one big thing, it's a bunch of little things in their life that is kind of stacked against them. Now I have seen over the years as I've talked to women and men at the abortion centers, is typically there's like one thing that's a straw that broke the camels back, but it's a bunch of little things that really brought them to the place where they thought that killing their child was a solution to their to their issues, you know. And so we have to understand that feeling overwhelmed. Now, how do we counteract that feeling overwhelmed. It kind of it's kind of in the same vein of fear and some of the other things we talked about. I think you have to and I think I know you have to, bring God into the equation. Yes, you have to encourage them to put their trust in him because, even though they might be overwhelmed, God, if he's with them in this, he can help sort through all the mess. And, on top of that, the church people who are going to stand with her and sort through this mess with her. Having mentors, having churches that will surround them with help and resources is really helpful to help them get out of that overwhelmed sort of mindset. Yeah, and so just in wrapping up, I don't know if you have anything to add to that.

30:07 No, I think we do need to kind of wrap it up. I think we've made a lot of really good points and and you can go to the article and really red for more detail, but I want to hear your yes, I was just wanting to speak to how you started a lady who had actually come to our boot camp, Michelle. She came to our boot camp a couple of months ago and she's from Colorado area. Had reached out. She reaches out at an abortion center where they do only late term abortions. Just kind of a rare thing. It's kind of rare thing to have an abortion facility that does late term abortions, but to have one that only does late term abortions, obviously they specialize in that. Pretty well known abortionist. I forget the abortionist name her and I think so. Yeah, and so she asked, you know, is is there any is there any difference in reaching out at a late term abortion facility as opposed to one that does abortions through, you know, all mostly early trimester abortions, right, which is where most of the abortion centers, or how far along most of the abortion centers, do the abortions at? And I started thinking, as I was looking at her email about the mindset of a woman who's got a late term pregnancy going to an abortion center, like, is the mindset any different? In reality, there are some some things that are similar, right, like the fear factor that's there. It's just are probably there. They all though all of those things are quite likely there. Yeah, but there is a difference, I think, a pretty significant difference that we need to consider, and I'm just putting this out there for you guys consideration, not

31:38 just to help Michelle understand this thing, because we answer heard an email, but to get you guys to be thinking. Are there's some scenarios and some things that are different about the abortion facility that I reach out at that I can kind of be thinking in the mindset of people that are coming. You know, let's say, for example, I'm just throwing this out there, maybe you're your Bor abortion facility is in a very affluent neighborhood or area where the vast majority the people that are coming in are not driving beat up clunkers like what we see here at latrobe. Well, if they're driving really nice cards, right, there's kind of a different mindset. They're not really going to need resources, right. You want to talk about resources and alternatives and stuff, but you're probably not going to major on that because if somebody rolls in in a Mercedes bends that's brand new and, you know, cost more than your house or whatever, you probably not going to be saying, Hey, we have held before you, not the man dish right issue. Right.

32:32 So that's a mindset thing. Yeah, and is it pertains some people that are further along in pregnancy coming and having abortions. Like we always say, nobody gets up in the morning saying says, Hey, it's a good day for an abortion, right, but for these women, certainly it's. This is not something that just happened in one day. Right. Most of the women that have a late term abortion have a late term abortion because of fetal abnormalities. They've been told something is wrong with their baby, heart defect, spin a Bifita, some other Tristunomi, thirteen down syndrome, maybe there's some issue with the baby. Now, none of that justifies abortion. We know that. We understand that. You don't kill a baby to save a baby. That's ridiculous, right. It's at mindset of fear, I'm going to kill my baby. And what I told Michelle is for a lot of these people it's like a mercy kill. It's like, instead of that baby living a horrible life or instead of that baby being born and then dying, you know, hours later, which can happen, sure, let's go ahead and kill that baby inside of the women. It's it's selfish, it's ridiculous, but it's a mindset that we need to understand. Often Times those women have had multiple ultra sounds. If you're further along and pregnancy and you're coming for an abortion, they've been multiple ultrasounds. There's there's no, there's no longer that lie, that it's a blob of tissue or clump of cells.

33:52 They've seen it, they've seen some of the fetal abnormalities and that's how they've justified the abortion. Again, none of that stuff justifies abortion. None of that stuff minimizes what they're doing. And are there people that have late term abortions that do it because of other issues rather than fetal abnormalities or whatever? Certainly I'm sure there are. The vast majority are in that situation, and so we need to be thinking in that mindset. We need to be talking in that mindset. We talk about the humanity of the baby. I think we definitely need to talk about their accountability to God, that that still a baby, that's still a precious child made in his image, even though he or she has some birth defects or some issues going on. That child is still a human being and you're still accountable to God. I think you can do that very graciously and we need to be very careful because they're going through probably one of the most difficult seasons of their life. Right. So we have to be very intentional with our tone, very intentional with the words that we say, but also very intention about speaking the truth, because the babies that are killed on a late term abortion facility are just as valuable as the in the sight of God as the babies that are killed in early trimester abortions, and vice versa. Right, these are human beings and it's wrong to kill human beings because human beings are made in the image of God. Right now, I did read that there was another common reason for a late term abortion, which is the health of the mother. Yeah, that's sometimes it's not discovered till later on in the PRESNENCY, but it's operating from that same spirit of fear and it it's again taken kind of God's job into our own

35:27 hands. Yeah, yeah, and so just some things for you guys to consider, some mindsets for you guys to consider, and I would say put all of this to serious prayer and ask the Lord God help me to get in the mindset of the people that I'm ministering to right and got will help you to do that. You will. So, guys, we appreciate you listening to this podcast. We'd appreciate if you guys would give us a review, whatever podcast service that you use. Give us a five star review. Reach out to us. You can reach me Daniel a love life dot Org. You reach her Vicky at Love Life Dot Org. We'd love to hear from you. Some suggestion a podcast, maybe some feedback on this podcast or others, but until next time, God bless got that, y'all. Give me our live for love. Give me our life for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious. And some met you.