The Ugly Face of Coercion

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:06.639 I am yours, I'm yours, I'm yours. And me, Lord, 2 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:13.320 I'm yours, I'm yours. I'm welcome to the Gospel Centered Pro Life Podcast, 3 00:00:13.359 --> 00:00:18.160 a podcast designed to equip, encourage, and challenge you in pro life 4 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:24.519 ministry and always with a focus on the Gospel. Stay tuned. I felt 5 00:00:24.800 --> 00:00:32.600 your pasih touch your heart? Yes, Lord, use me. Lord. 6 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:40.399 Hey there everyone, Welcome to the Gospel Centered Pro Life Podcast. I'm Vicky 7 00:00:40.520 --> 00:00:45.719 Kasieric and I'm here with Daniel Parks. So say hi, Daniel, Hi 8 00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:54.280 Daniel. So uh, we have a difficult topic today and actually it just 9 00:00:54.399 --> 00:01:00.159 happened again today. So this is a common common issue as side about counselors. 10 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:06.879 And the title of of this podcast in the accompanying article is the ugly 11 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:14.400 face of coercion to abort I remember reading somewhere um and don't quote me on 12 00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:15.760 this, you'd have to check it out for yourself, but it was a 13 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:23.640 staggeringly high number. I think it was sixty eight percent of abortions have some 14 00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:29.920 form of coercion. So it's a serious issue. I would say that's about 15 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.680 right, whether it's coercion from the father of the baby or a little woman's 16 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:41.280 parents, or grandparents or friends or whatever it might be. Coercions definitely a 17 00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:45.799 big factor in the choice to have an abortion. Yeah, and so the 18 00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:52.359 this podcast, this article evolved out of an actual case that happened. I 19 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:55.359 think this was a couple of weeks ago when I wrote this, and again 20 00:01:55.400 --> 00:02:01.519 it happened again today, very similar. But um it it often ends as 21 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:07.239 it did in this case, the way co coercient often does end. Where 22 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:12.360 the woman goes through with the abortion because there's either threats there are she's going 23 00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:15.800 to lose her home, there's something that is of deep enough concern that that 24 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:23.360 vulnerable person um chooses to go ahead with what she oftentimes doesn't want to do. 25 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:29.080 She she knows it's wrong. So I I will preface this by saying 26 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:34.599 it it leaves you feeling pretty helpless there. There is oftentimes very little that 27 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:39.599 that you can do unless the woman is willing to say I need help, 28 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:46.800 I'm being coerced um, because the police certainly won't act on it if the 29 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:52.639 woman doesn't admit that it's a coercion, and the woman is often frightened into 30 00:02:52.759 --> 00:03:00.520 silence. So a similar theme as with um sexual trafficking, sex trafficking victims, 31 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:07.960 they will not usually tell anyone that they're that they're being forced into the 32 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:14.919 abortion or sex or whatever because they fear they fear for the repercussions. So 33 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:19.039 anyway, so so what happened in this case, um And I think the 34 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:25.120 first thing to to try and understand is how to detect coercion. In this 35 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:30.560 case, it was really obvious. The woman was screaming at the man. 36 00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:37.159 She came running out of the abortion center. I tried actually to hand her 37 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:40.319 literature and say we could help her, but she brushed me off, ran 38 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:46.960 up the street with the man following her, and um and he actually I 39 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:52.439 was already calling out, if you're being coerced, that's against the law. 40 00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:57.360 We can help you. And the pro abortion crowd was all saying, she's 41 00:03:57.400 --> 00:04:00.840 not being coerced, you're just making us asumptions. Meanwhile, the up the 42 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:04.439 street, I saw the guy grab her arm and try to pull her back 43 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:10.840 into the abortion center. So it looks like a pretty clear case of coercion. 44 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:15.680 But they said he he actually wants the baby. He's trying to just 45 00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:17.839 get her to go home. You know, you don't know anything, Vicky. 46 00:04:17.879 --> 00:04:23.639 Anyway, he actually came back down the street on the other side of 47 00:04:23.639 --> 00:04:27.240 the street. The woman remained up the street. I went immediately to the 48 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:30.040 man and I said, is it true that that you want to save this 49 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:33.199 baby? And he said, heck no, I want to I want an 50 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:38.240 abortion, and that's why we came all the way from Georgia. So at 51 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:43.839 that point, um I returned back up the street to the woman, who 52 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:48.319 at that she softened immediately. The guy is now staying down the street, 53 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:53.040 and she told me that she actually wanted the baby, and she told me 54 00:04:53.120 --> 00:05:00.800 four times, I want to keep my baby. So it was ob absolutely 55 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:06.199 no question that this was a case of coercion. Um At the boyfriend came 56 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:10.720 back up the street. I had shared our resources. She was ready to 57 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:15.519 walk with me down the street to go on our mobile ultrasound unit. Uh. 58 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:17.720 She she knew my name. We we've been talking a while, and 59 00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:23.800 I I felt, this is a woman who has saved her baby. The 60 00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:28.120 baby's gonna be fine, and we'll find help to deal with the coercion from 61 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:30.560 the guy. And um he came back up the street and said, can 62 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:34.160 I talk to you in a gentle voice with the woman, and she nodded 63 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:38.399 to me and I said, do you want me just to walk a little 64 00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:41.800 bit away, So I did. I stayed close enough that I don't know 65 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:44.600 what I was gonna do. He was a big guy, but so that 66 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:48.319 I was a present still there, but I couldn't hear them, and UM 67 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:54.319 and whatever he said pretty much immediately convinced her to go in and have the 68 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:58.560 abortion, and she started. He walked away again, and she said to 69 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:02.000 me, I'm I'm so right, but I'm going to go in. And 70 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:06.399 and I asked if I talked to the three talking points. I went over 71 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:10.839 what we had said I and then finally asked her if I could pray with 72 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:14.240 her, and she held my hand. She was crying, but she ended 73 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:18.120 up going in my presumption as he threatened her and threatened with something that was 74 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:24.680 scary enough for her that she would change her mind that immediately. So I 75 00:06:24.680 --> 00:06:28.160 don't know that part for effect. But so that was the story that prompted 76 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:31.759 this sad story. I was very upset by it. Um it really was 77 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:36.439 very deflating and thinking there was nothing we could do. She was not calling 78 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:41.120 and asking for help. There was really nothing that we could do. So 79 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:44.720 one of the things I did when I was writing and thinking about This was 80 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:47.879 just trying to figure out, well, what can we do there are some 81 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:54.680 principles that that we can follow in UM and trying to deal with when we 82 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:58.160 know that there is a coercion. Yeah, well we know according to that 83 00:06:58.279 --> 00:07:01.240 statistic that you shared, was that seeks it's pretty high. I know it's 84 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:05.079 it's more than um, it's almost three quarters. I remember being shocked by 85 00:07:05.079 --> 00:07:10.079 that. Yeah, so in many of the situations that we're encountering, almost 86 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:15.079 three quarters of the situations that we're encountering there's coercion. Coercion involved in there. 87 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:18.839 So it's not like there's some kind of silver bullet that's gonna take care 88 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:25.319 of a coercion and remove it completely. UM. But I think above and 89 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:30.639 beyond all of the things that you can do is helping remind that mother of 90 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:33.240 why there's conflict. Right, she had to be coerced into it. She 91 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:39.480 wasn't your wholesale I'm ready to have an abortion, So obviously there's conflict there, 92 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:43.480 and I think playing on that why is there conflict? There's conflict because 93 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:46.800 she recognizes that there's something wrong with abortion, and what's wrong with it is 94 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:50.079 that it kills a baby. And so what you have in here is the 95 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:55.680 first point kind of major principle is appealed to them to the positive reasons why 96 00:07:55.759 --> 00:07:59.600 the baby should be saved. He's in the three talking points and calling out 97 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:01.879 to both the man and the woman. I think really focusing on that woman 98 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:07.360 though, and helping her to remember why she doesn't want to have the abortion 99 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:09.639 because she carries a baby. Right. One of the three main talking points 100 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:15.399 there is humanity through the baby and really focusing on that, helping her to 101 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:20.519 remember that it's a baby, and even the coercion, the pressure that she 102 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:24.839 feels from the coercion. Actually, um, that's that stuff. And I'm 103 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:30.360 not gonna say it doesn't matter, but it pales in comparison to the value 104 00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:33.559 of that baby she carries inside of her womb. That makes sense, Yeah, 105 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:35.639 it does, And I think I think that is the first thing is 106 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:39.799 you're assuming you have not yet separated them. You weren't able to get them 107 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:43.600 apart, because our second point is you should try to get the man alone 108 00:08:43.799 --> 00:08:48.039 or the woman alone to speak speak with them alone, get get that coercive 109 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:52.919 influence kind of off to the side, if at all possible. And honestly, 110 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:58.600 these two first points did happen today and we're effective. They were effective 111 00:09:00.279 --> 00:09:03.919 the first one. UM I was calling regarding the first point. I was 112 00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:07.159 on the microphone, and there was clear conflict because the woman was crying. 113 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:13.840 She's getting on and off her phone. UM she at at various points. 114 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:18.519 They're yet clearly yelling at each other. And they were in and out of 115 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:22.679 the abortion center log and she kept looking at me. They both kept looking 116 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:24.559 at me and occasionally pointing at me when I was speaking on the mic, 117 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:28.879 and I was speaking for probably a full half hour, talking about the three 118 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:31.399 talking points in case you all don't know those God, Humanity, the baby, 119 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:37.360 and resources, and I talked about our free ultrasound. The woman separated 120 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:41.559 herself from the man at that point and walked straight to me and said, 121 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:46.240 can I get that free ultrasound? So we were able to get her alone 122 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:50.919 on the mobile ultrasound unit and speak with her alone, and she definitely wanted 123 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:54.720 the baby. Was kind of a fallen Christian. She had walked away from 124 00:09:54.759 --> 00:09:58.399 the Lord but did believe, and so all the all the words about God 125 00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:05.279 had had an impact on her. So I'm sorry, I'm losing my voice, 126 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:09.960 so talking about the UM trying to get that man away and then appealing 127 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:15.440 to him as a man, not just to that woman, separate from the 128 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:18.919 coercion of the man. Yeah, yeah, encouraging him with the fact that 129 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:22.679 he's the father of that baby and he has a responsibility. Um, I 130 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:28.519 think pushing back against the coercion that he's kind of pushing on her, and 131 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:31.120 basically, you have no right to course or into killing your own child. 132 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:35.639 I think have you had that happen? I would assume you have. Where 133 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:37.840 do you remember a conversation with a man and the sort of things maybe that 134 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:43.720 I mean, honestly, most of my conversations with men have been along the 135 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:48.000 lines of they don't want her to have the abortion. They would they would 136 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:50.879 prefer that she didn't, and I'm encouraging him to like be a man and 137 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:56.039 tell her that. Um not. I don't have an immediate story that comes 138 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:58.799 to mind. I'm I'm sure over the years I've talked to me in along 139 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:01.399 these lines that are trying to worse her, But typically, honestly, like 140 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:07.039 from man to man, those conversations are more, um, it's more of 141 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:11.320 a slight against him. If I'm trying to you tell him you need to 142 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:18.279 stop coercing her. It creates a pretty hostile situation. So in those situations, 143 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:20.840 I'm going to be very tactful in the way that I'm presenting, in 144 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:26.000 the way that I'm like encouraging him to stop pressing her to have an abortion. 145 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:31.720 You have to be very strategic with those conversations do and they're really hard. 146 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:35.960 And I will tell you in the case that that happened that I wrote 147 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:39.039 this about, the man was wearing a big cross around his neck, and 148 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:43.320 that made it even harder. I I did actually confront that, and I 149 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:48.919 actually think it is important to confront if someone is claiming Christ by their jewelry, 150 00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:54.080 at tattoo, whatever. I think you need to say if if you 151 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:58.559 are claiming Jesus as your lord, you can't defend this. You can't defend 152 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:05.360 this behavior. So, um, uh you went to call the police. 153 00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:09.840 Really Uh? Someone did ask me, why didn't you call the police. 154 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:13.399 Well, she never admitted that it was coercion. She said she wanted the 155 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:18.200 baby and that he did not. But she never said he's forcing me, 156 00:12:18.279 --> 00:12:22.039 he's coercing me. She never did anything like that. She never called her 157 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:24.879 help, and she walked without him anywhere. He was still across the street. 158 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:30.000 She walked into the abortion center on her own. And so the coercion, 159 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:33.720 and this is often the case, the coercion is not normally like physically 160 00:12:33.799 --> 00:12:37.759 dragging them. Now we've seen that, we have seen that before, Um, 161 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:43.720 But normally it's that relational coercion. It's that emotional manipulation, that kind 162 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:48.039 of coercion that goes on, and that's really hard, like even if you 163 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:50.960 were to call the police, there's nothing they can do about that. The 164 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:54.600 only coercion And listen, this is this is even a challenge to get at 165 00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:58.799 least our local police to do anything about. But the only coercion the police 166 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:03.240 are they gonna do anything about is when they're physically dragging them into the abortion 167 00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:07.200 center, you know. And and really, if they're doing that, she 168 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:11.919 would have to be Um, she would have to be willing to be the 169 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:13.679 one that presses charges. And now I'm not saying in that situation we shouldn't 170 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:18.480 call the police, because I think we should. But still yet the police, 171 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:22.320 they're going to be limited in what they can do and really limited for 172 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:24.320 many of them, and what they what they actually will do. Now, 173 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:28.399 we have had police officers go into the abortion center and literally talk to the 174 00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:31.759 woman, bring her out. Is he coercing you? Is he forcing you 175 00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:35.759 to have the abortion? And I've never seen it where they're like, yes, 176 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:39.200 he is right. Most of the time they're like no, even though 177 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:43.759 it's obvious. And so what you have is this whole emotional mental game that's 178 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:46.799 going on. And so how do you combat that. You can bring the 179 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:52.080 police into the equation, but really you've got to combat that with truth and 180 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:54.879 again going back to those three talking points over and over again, talking about 181 00:13:54.919 --> 00:14:00.080 talking about God, um resources, and the humanity the baby, and that 182 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:03.399 that's in both the cases that happened recently, that that is what I did. 183 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:09.039 Um. Offering to pray with them is or with not with them necessarily 184 00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:13.320 at the point that I prayed, I had her alone. But if you 185 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:16.240 can pray with them, hopefully a man with a man, woman with a 186 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:22.399 woman, restating those arguments where where you can hopefully get there, um, 187 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:26.080 get them to come alongside to you know, to recognizing the sanctity of that 188 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:31.840 child's life. But what, um, what is really sad? And it's 189 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:35.919 actually not unusual. In this particular case, there was someone calling herself a 190 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:41.120 pastor who was right on the sidewalk and um, and this coersion was happening 191 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:46.559 under her eye, and she was fully supportive of the woman going into a 192 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:52.320 board. She saw the whole thing play out and even had the audacity to 193 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:56.480 say, you can talk with me, I'm a pastor while she's walking the 194 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:01.799 woman in this in this situation is maybe a little uniqu This is a pro 195 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:05.039 board. This is one of the pro board volunteers or the people that support 196 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:09.919 abortion volunteers, who is a pastor And you guys can't see me, but 197 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:15.440 I'm doing air quotes pastor um. But you know, I'll say that beyond 198 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:20.519 that would being a pro aboord. I've seen situations where it's not coercion from 199 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:24.799 the pastor but support of the pastor having an abortion. Like we've talked to 200 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:30.440 women I know you have that talked to their pastor and their pastor encouraged them 201 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:35.080 to have an abortion. And that's not necessarily like a direct coercion, but 202 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:41.159 it's not unlike the coercion or I mean, I don't know what you would 203 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:46.000 call it, maybe just plane out just negligence of either doctors, because again, 204 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:50.080 doctors, pastors, people that are in positions of authority and power who 205 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:56.039 um should do the right thing and should speak the truth. Not speaking the 206 00:15:56.039 --> 00:16:00.279 truth, and that itself is a form of coercion. It's it's like having 207 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:03.240 that rug of support pulled out from under these women, when again, the 208 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:07.600 pastor should be the one speaking the truth, encouraging her to do what is 209 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:10.960 right and what honors God. In the same way the doctor should be encouraging 210 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:15.240 her to do what's right right, what's morally right, what's medically right. 211 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:18.840 Like a doctor denying and many do, but denying that there's a baby there, 212 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:22.039 that there's a human being, is you know, scientifically incorrect? Right, 213 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:26.759 They know it's alive, and so there's I don't know if that's coercion 214 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:30.159 or which you would call that. I think it's negligent. Nelligence is a 215 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:33.519 great word. And where I was where my mind was going as you were 216 00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:36.600 speaking. I don't know if I brought this out in the article, was 217 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:42.480 that many women will when I'll say does your pastor no, have you spoken 218 00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:48.159 to your pastor? And they will say, yeah, he approves. And 219 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:51.720 I don't know if that's always actually the actual case. I think in most 220 00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:55.840 cases it's probably that the pastor has been negligent on this issue. Has not 221 00:16:55.960 --> 00:17:00.200 spoken from the pulpit. This is wrong. We will help you. If 222 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.680 you're in any any situation where you would ever consider abortion instead, come to 223 00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:07.119 us, and that that is you know, the mission of love life, 224 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:11.559 that we do want to energize and mobilize the church, That that pastors are 225 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:18.880 making those statements regularly so that there is no question in a congregation's mind where 226 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:26.880 um, Christ followers stand on this issue. So in the end, you 227 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:30.640 know, it didn't end well. She she as far as I know, 228 00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:36.960 she did go in. She did have our information and um and she never 229 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:41.680 did call uh. Sadly, But if you can get a number and your 230 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:47.039 information into the hand of any woman that's being coerced, you know, hopefully 231 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:51.640 down the road they will they will call you. UM. But I really 232 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:55.960 did. From from that experience, there were two huge takeaways. One is, 233 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.519 you do the best you can and you leave the rest up to the 234 00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:03.279 Lord, because this is a really hard situation. But secondly, a call 235 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:11.279 to the church. We need the church to be very vocal and very involved 236 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:17.279 in the whole issue of abortion, or or these sorts of scenarios are are 237 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:19.359 just going to keep being playing. Yeah, yeah, I mean at the 238 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:25.200 end of the day, as the church and as pastors and leaders, we 239 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:29.480 need to call men to be men, not to coerce women to have abortions, 240 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:32.559 but to support them, you know, to take responsibility. This is 241 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:36.759 one of the issues with abortion. This is why we say as an organization, 242 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:40.039 often times an abortion is more of a man's issue than it is a 243 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:42.359 woman's issue, because if that man would stand up, first of all, 244 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:47.599 not take advantage of women, not have sex outside of marriage, but even 245 00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:52.000 if they do sin and you know, obviously do what's against the will of 246 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:56.839 God, to take responsibility for their actions. Of course, abortion is exactly 247 00:18:56.839 --> 00:18:59.920 the opposite of that. It's not taking responsibility, it's being in response, 248 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:04.039 sable and basically paying someone to take care of you quote the problem. And 249 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:08.319 so I think as a church we definitely need to call men to be men. 250 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:14.359 A man that coerces his girlfriend into having an abortion is is not a 251 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:19.359 man. Actually, he's he's a boy chapped in a man's body. And 252 00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:22.960 not that I would say that, not that I wouldn't say that. It 253 00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:26.920 depends on the scenario, but either way, the principle stands these men that 254 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:30.599 he'd be called to be men in the same way, friends, family members. 255 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:34.880 This this coercing women to have abortions. This is like, you know, 256 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.039 this is God has called us to so much more. God had called 257 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:42.240 us to support these women rather than to encourage them to have abortions or to 258 00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:47.200 threaten them if they don't have abortions. Like you know, we've got to 259 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:52.319 as a society do better. We've got to call people to to higher standards. 260 00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:55.759 Right, Yeah, I would tell you there there were some good things 261 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.960 that came out of it. One of it, UM was that the entire 262 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:03.079 well not the entire There were four or five of the opposition that surrounded me 263 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:08.000 when I went up to talk to the woman and UM and they said, 264 00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:11.319 you don't have to talk with her, she's a protester. And the woman 265 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:15.920 said, I want to talk with her. I want to talk with Vicky. 266 00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:21.759 I know that she cares. And when the UH pastor in air quotes 267 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:26.319 said you can talk to me, I'm a pastor, she said, no, 268 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:29.640 I want my baby. I want to talk to Vicky. So she 269 00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:33.359 recognized and it was in front of that group, and I think for a 270 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:38.480 group that claims to want to help women, that was a wake up call 271 00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:45.440 you're not helping women when seventy or some percentage that that's quite high of them 272 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:49.279 are being coerced and you're setting up a climate where they cannot come to the 273 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:53.799 people who are offering help and the choice for life. You're not helping them. 274 00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:59.440 They're being coerced. In most cases, they're being coerced by someone. 275 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.799 And it dispels that whole lie that women that come to an abortion center already 276 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.720 have their mind made up. So such a lie. And so yeah, 277 00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:12.279 we hope this podcast episode was a blessing to you guys, and uh can 278 00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:17.160 we hope that you would share this podcast with other folks. We also I 279 00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:19.319 encourage you guys to reach out to us if you have any questions or comments 280 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:23.640 encouragements that had to do with this episode or others. My email addresses daniel 281 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:27.559 a love life dot org and reach out to Vicky Vicky with hy at love 282 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:30.359 life dot org. We'd love to hear from you. But until next time, 283 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:37.759 God bless God, bless you all. Give me our love for love, 284 00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:51.160 give me our love for gratitude. I know it will cost me my 285 00:21:51.279 --> 00:22:11.359 life. Nothing's too precious. And some that you and