Ministering to An Agnostic - Mock Session

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.759 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me, 2 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:11.349 Lord, I am yours, I am yours. I'm welcome to the 3 00:00:11.429 --> 00:00:17.309 Gospel Center pre life podcast, a podcast designed to equip, encourage and challenge 4 00:00:17.350 --> 00:00:21.350 you in pro life ministry and always were the focus on the Gospel. Stay 5 00:00:21.429 --> 00:00:36.969 tuned. I felt show passish touch your welcome to the Gospel Center pro life 6 00:00:37.009 --> 00:00:41.210 podcast. We appreciate you guys tuning in and listening and, as always, 7 00:00:41.210 --> 00:00:46.369 we'd appreciate if you guys would share this podcast. We are in this episode, 8 00:00:46.929 --> 00:00:50.240 going to do something we've done in a couple of episodes previously and something 9 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:54.560 that we've actually had quite a few folks request of us, and that's to 10 00:00:54.679 --> 00:00:58.159 do a mock session. So again, as we've done in the past, 11 00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:03.799 Vicky recorded her counseling Maddie, who's one of our local vaunteers who should be 12 00:01:03.239 --> 00:01:07.349 a paid act actress. She Shits, she is so good. Yeah, 13 00:01:07.510 --> 00:01:11.510 she's Great. So and then I think we have a few coming up in 14 00:01:11.590 --> 00:01:15.430 the next couple of weeks that were recorded from some of our other counselors right 15 00:01:15.469 --> 00:01:17.870 now. That will be good. Yeah, but we wanted to do this 16 00:01:18.109 --> 00:01:22.180 one just to do what we've done in the past again play that. So 17 00:01:22.260 --> 00:01:23.980 we're going to play the audio for you guys, and then we're going to 18 00:01:25.019 --> 00:01:27.340 come back and kind of critique it a little bit say some of the things, 19 00:01:27.379 --> 00:01:30.900 things that actually the points that were touched one that you need to be 20 00:01:30.980 --> 00:01:34.049 touched on maybe some of the things that were not touched one. Do want 21 00:01:34.090 --> 00:01:38.969 to say that in all of these we're just kind of laying out as far 22 00:01:38.969 --> 00:01:42.250 as for Maddie and Vicky, you're just kind of laying out what the scenario 23 00:01:42.409 --> 00:01:45.129 is, but there's not like it's not like a scripted or anything. Rights 24 00:01:45.329 --> 00:01:48.280 and going off as well. We're doing that so that it will, as 25 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:51.760 closely as possible, mimic a real situation, because you don't know what you're 26 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:53.680 going to face when when you start talking to a woman, a woman. 27 00:01:55.239 --> 00:01:57.200 So I purposely didn't want to know what Maddie was going to say. She 28 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:00.599 had no idea what I was going to say. We just laid out the 29 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:06.989 general concept and scenario. Yeah, which is good. It is real to 30 00:02:07.510 --> 00:02:09.789 life as possible, right, I guess. And, like I said, 31 00:02:09.830 --> 00:02:14.870 Maddie's really good. It's she's obviously talked to many women at abortion centers and 32 00:02:15.270 --> 00:02:19.020 riot conversations. Yeah, because she knows what to say in these situations. 33 00:02:19.219 --> 00:02:23.139 This is very realistic, by the way. This is Maddie being an agnostic 34 00:02:23.219 --> 00:02:30.810 at best, maybe atheist, mother with a child who she's concerned is going 35 00:02:30.849 --> 00:02:34.370 to die or be disabled because some of the choices she has made, and 36 00:02:35.050 --> 00:02:39.810 we do face that often. Yeah, and she really nailed a lot of 37 00:02:40.289 --> 00:02:46.039 the discussion that we would get as pushback from those moms when we interact with 38 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:49.400 them. Yeah, yeah, so you guys, we're going to go ahead 39 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:53.000 and play this for you again. Lay out the scenario real quick before we 40 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:58.669 play it. Okay, so she she's approached me, so she's walking towards 41 00:02:58.789 --> 00:03:04.270 the counselor. She is a young woman who this is her first pregnancy her, 42 00:03:04.789 --> 00:03:09.069 she has not engaged in healthy lifestyle and knows it and is concerned that 43 00:03:09.150 --> 00:03:15.900 the child might be born with a disability or or could even die, and 44 00:03:16.979 --> 00:03:23.300 she doesn't believe in God. So she doesn't have that restraint on her at 45 00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:28.530 all. Yeah, and that's basically all that we gave her. Okay, 46 00:03:28.650 --> 00:03:32.169 I said you go from there and I will do my best to counsel you. 47 00:03:32.530 --> 00:03:37.250 Okay, cool. Well, that's the scenario, guess. So listen 48 00:03:37.289 --> 00:03:40.169 up and then stay with us and we'll come back at the end and talk 49 00:03:40.210 --> 00:03:46.280 a little bit about this there. Okay, oh, young lady, I 50 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:49.800 know you may not want to talk with me, but I'm just offering you 51 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:54.360 some help. This is information and hope and help, and on the back 52 00:03:54.599 --> 00:04:00.710 is is my name and my number and we would we would love to talk 53 00:04:00.789 --> 00:04:04.389 with you about what brings you to this place. And I know you know 54 00:04:04.469 --> 00:04:09.789 obviously there's something going on. I know that all they do here is abortions. 55 00:04:09.949 --> 00:04:15.099 So I know women don't come here, you know, just for normal 56 00:04:15.580 --> 00:04:20.699 health care. So what's going on? Do you mind telling me? I 57 00:04:20.860 --> 00:04:25.009 don't know. I've heard a lot about you guys. I don't know. 58 00:04:25.209 --> 00:04:28.850 Are you yeah, they do. When you called, like they they told 59 00:04:28.850 --> 00:04:30.689 you. Yeah, they they don't like us offering the choice for life. 60 00:04:30.689 --> 00:04:35.290 I'll be very honest. We are here because we know that that baby is 61 00:04:35.329 --> 00:04:41.519 a little human being, precious to God, created by God. And if 62 00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:44.720 you've missed your period, which you wouldn't be here probably, unless she had 63 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:48.040 right then that baby already has a beating heart. That baby is a person, 64 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:53.949 a little person, but a vulnerable human being. Loved and created by 65 00:04:54.029 --> 00:04:57.949 God. So we come offering help. We have so many resources really, 66 00:04:58.069 --> 00:05:00.790 no matter what you face. So we just want to hear your story and 67 00:05:01.310 --> 00:05:05.509 offer help. And I know they've probably told you that we lie and that 68 00:05:06.110 --> 00:05:09.779 you know, but information never hurts. I'm telling you, you don't lie. 69 00:05:09.779 --> 00:05:15.019 Everything that we offer we follow through on, but just the information has 70 00:05:15.139 --> 00:05:20.970 just so much, you know, knowledge and information that can help you and 71 00:05:21.769 --> 00:05:26.810 there's never reason not to know all the facts before you do something, as 72 00:05:27.370 --> 00:05:31.170 you know, Vinal, as as taking your child's life. Right. Yeah, 73 00:05:31.250 --> 00:05:36.360 so basically I guess what's going on, I drink and smoke and I 74 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:42.240 I kind of felt like I might be pregnant, but I didn't really think 75 00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:45.639 I was. Okay, and then when I found out I was like ten 76 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:47.879 weeks along. So wow, this baby's going to be so messed up and 77 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:53.350 I don't want to bring a disabled baby into the world. All I've done. 78 00:05:53.870 --> 00:05:57.589 Have you? Have you been to a doctor? Yeah, at this 79 00:05:57.709 --> 00:06:00.629 point, okay, have and you know you're pregnant. Did you? Did 80 00:06:00.750 --> 00:06:02.589 you do an ultrasound? He or she do an ultra sound or anything like 81 00:06:02.670 --> 00:06:06.339 that? So you saw the baby? Well, I didn't want to. 82 00:06:06.740 --> 00:06:11.339 I just did that dodger look at the baby where they able? They said 83 00:06:11.459 --> 00:06:14.500 the babies alive, has a beating heart. Did they tell you any of 84 00:06:14.579 --> 00:06:18.810 that? Yeah, okay. So, so you saw the baby. Your 85 00:06:18.889 --> 00:06:26.610 big concern is that you've been smoking and drinking. I are you still or 86 00:06:26.730 --> 00:06:30.129 did you stop when you found out you were pregnant? I mean, yeah, 87 00:06:30.209 --> 00:06:32.759 I did stop, okay, but why? What made you stop? 88 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:38.279 I just didn't know what would happen, I guess. And okay, so 89 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:40.879 there was, at least for a moment, in your heart, was this 90 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:46.160 concern you knew you were carrying a child, another human being, and did 91 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:50.029 you feel some sort of responsibility towards that person? Yeah, I guess I've 92 00:06:50.389 --> 00:06:56.790 heard that in in your concern that this is a your baby. It is 93 00:06:56.870 --> 00:07:00.740 your baby, I mean it's in your womb right and and the doctors at 94 00:07:00.740 --> 00:07:03.980 least saw it and I assume they have told you that the baby is alive. 95 00:07:05.459 --> 00:07:12.259 But there's this concern that maybe you've harmed that person and you know what 96 00:07:12.540 --> 00:07:16.610 that's like. That's how we should feel, I mean that is the normal 97 00:07:16.730 --> 00:07:24.810 maternal instinct, that we should care about that child and desire to nurture and 98 00:07:24.850 --> 00:07:27.930 protect it. I mean that that's what the womb is designed for. Do 99 00:07:28.009 --> 00:07:30.199 you believe in God? No, no, okay, not at all. 100 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:34.600 Do you believe in a higher power? Yeah, there's I believe there's like 101 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:39.800 a higher power somewhere, but I don't know about okay, called this. 102 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:43.800 Okay. So there is a creator, then that maybe said all this in 103 00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:49.990 motion, something creator. So you were created, right. Do you believe 104 00:07:50.069 --> 00:07:53.589 that that you were created, that there was a God that created you? 105 00:07:53.709 --> 00:07:58.230 May Be Right. There may be an and and that baby maybe was created 106 00:07:58.350 --> 00:08:05.060 by by that same higher power. And the womb is the one organ in 107 00:08:07.699 --> 00:08:11.970 the human body, male or female, that was not designed for us. 108 00:08:13.689 --> 00:08:16.490 Not at all. There's no no purpose in the womb for you, for 109 00:08:16.610 --> 00:08:24.370 your survival. The womb is specifically designed for one purpose, for another human 110 00:08:24.449 --> 00:08:28.879 being. Another human being should do you agree that that is another human being 111 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:33.799 that's in your womb? I I yeah, I think I do. Okay, 112 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:37.399 or maybe you have some doubts, for let me tell you that every 113 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:43.269 medical textbook says that human development begins at the moment of conception. Here's a 114 00:08:43.509 --> 00:08:48.990 really cool little fact. Did you know when the sperm meets the egg in 115 00:08:48.110 --> 00:08:54.870 the darkness of the womb there is a flash of light. Wow, isn't 116 00:08:54.870 --> 00:08:58.100 that a sen and and a you know, if you know your Bible at 117 00:08:58.139 --> 00:09:03.220 all, God creates, you know, the heavens and the earth and and 118 00:09:03.379 --> 00:09:07.259 then he says let there be light, light. Yet another much if we 119 00:09:07.340 --> 00:09:13.690 ever mentioned do you know? Do you know? Jesus is called what you 120 00:09:13.809 --> 00:09:16.809 probably don't know, if you don't know God, he's called the light of 121 00:09:16.929 --> 00:09:22.450 the world, the light of the world. And isn't it fascinating that at 122 00:09:22.490 --> 00:09:26.440 that moment of conception there is a spark of light? They've seen it. 123 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:30.720 There's photographs of that. You can look this up for yourself. And it's 124 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:37.639 dark in the world. There's so it's to me this speaks so clearly of 125 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:43.269 the truth of who God is. God is a God of light and he 126 00:09:43.549 --> 00:09:50.509 dispels the darkness and when he enters, which is at the moment of conception, 127 00:09:50.789 --> 00:09:54.700 he knows us, He created us, he loves us, he is 128 00:09:54.940 --> 00:09:58.620 light. He is light in the darkness. Now this place here, I 129 00:10:00.179 --> 00:10:03.460 saw you kind of walking a little bit slowly, little bit of hesitancy. 130 00:10:05.019 --> 00:10:09.330 You feel this desire as a mother to protect that child and that's part of 131 00:10:09.409 --> 00:10:13.529 your reason why you want to take that child's life. So, as you're 132 00:10:13.570 --> 00:10:20.289 walking here, would you say that's a place of goodness and light and hope? 133 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:28.279 Would you characterize it as a place of darkness and loss of hope and 134 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:37.470 fear and despair? Maybe it feels to me like darkness or despair because of 135 00:10:37.549 --> 00:10:41.029 my situation, but I feel like they're really just trying to help people and 136 00:10:41.110 --> 00:10:43.789 I feel like they're trying to provide a way out. Yeah, well, 137 00:10:43.990 --> 00:10:50.220 they're trying to help people who are intent on taking their child's life. Now, 138 00:10:50.259 --> 00:10:56.179 I understand that your issue is that you're afraid that your child might be 139 00:10:56.379 --> 00:11:01.860 born with a disability. If, first of all, if God is true, 140 00:11:03.580 --> 00:11:07.370 if Jesus is real, and I know you're not quite sure about that, 141 00:11:07.289 --> 00:11:13.450 then and he's the Creator and the child is created already with the plan 142 00:11:13.570 --> 00:11:18.639 and a purpose, just as as as you were. But even if God 143 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:24.679 were not the one who created that little baby, that little baby has all 144 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:30.960 the human DNA she will ever have from the moment of conception. And if 145 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:33.629 you're ten to twelve weeks, a little baby already has developed ovaries. And 146 00:11:33.750 --> 00:11:41.110 do you know that already within those ovaries are your future grandchildren? The eggs 147 00:11:41.190 --> 00:11:46.509 in fact that the baby before they're born has more eggs than they lose eggs 148 00:11:46.549 --> 00:11:52.659 as as they progressed through life after birth. So so is that kind of 149 00:11:52.740 --> 00:12:01.169 a miraculous design, that that you, your baby, your grandchildren, all 150 00:12:01.289 --> 00:12:07.330 of you really are facing a decision right now. The decision you make today 151 00:12:07.409 --> 00:12:11.809 on whether that baby might be born with the disability is going to affect you, 152 00:12:13.850 --> 00:12:16.720 and I can tell you that, as opposed to bortive woman, I 153 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:20.240 know I didn't know the Lord when I had the abortions. I was like 154 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:22.440 you. I didn't know God. I thought maybe there was a creator. 155 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:28.080 Wasn't even sure about that, and I didn't think twice about that abortion. 156 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:31.590 But I will tell you, when I had the first child that I wanted, 157 00:12:33.870 --> 00:12:37.990 my life changed and the first thing I thought about said baby that I 158 00:12:39.029 --> 00:12:43.669 killed, and that's when I fell on my knees before God. and honestly, 159 00:12:43.830 --> 00:12:48.500 not a day goes by that I don't remember that decision with despair and 160 00:12:48.700 --> 00:12:52.620 wish that I could take it back, but of course I can't. But 161 00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:56.340 that's why I'm here, because there's no certainty at all that your baby's been 162 00:12:56.419 --> 00:12:58.649 harmed. Non Now, can you harm your baby by what you do, 163 00:12:58.809 --> 00:13:03.450 yes, but amazingly and beautifully and again another proof, in my opinion, 164 00:13:03.490 --> 00:13:09.809 of God's perfect design is that in that first trimester that baby is so protected 165 00:13:09.169 --> 00:13:13.600 and before the Placenta and the the well not sent up at the Umbilical Court. 166 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:20.200 Is passing in blood between you and and the and the baby. Your 167 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:24.360 things inside of your system are not being passed on to that child. So 168 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:28.230 your baby could be fine. In the really the best majority of cases, 169 00:13:28.350 --> 00:13:33.350 the baby is. I would recommende you continue not to drink and not to 170 00:13:35.110 --> 00:13:39.070 to smoke, and we have all kinds of programs that we can connect to 171 00:13:39.230 --> 00:13:43.100 it. But we also have resources that connect that can that we can connect 172 00:13:43.100 --> 00:13:46.700 to with that will help you no matter what you pays, including a mentor 173 00:13:46.820 --> 00:13:52.059 that will walk alongside you and encourage you through this process. But I think 174 00:13:52.100 --> 00:13:56.009 the very first step right now is just would you be willing to sit down 175 00:13:56.049 --> 00:14:00.409 and let me share, from kind of beginning to end, the truth of 176 00:14:00.490 --> 00:14:05.049 who God is and why he loves you and why he loves that trial. 177 00:14:05.529 --> 00:14:09.769 I'm willing to listen. Okay, okay, come on, maybe, come 178 00:14:09.809 --> 00:14:15.559 on over here. That's going the shade and we can't. Okay, well, 179 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:16.879 we hope that was a blessing to you, guess, and that you 180 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:22.279 learned something. If nothing else, you learned what not to say from our 181 00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:26.190 friend Vickie. I'm just kidding. It's kidding, Wickis for fun, but 182 00:14:26.230 --> 00:14:30.629 let's give into it. There were parts of it that were very inspired. 183 00:14:30.990 --> 00:14:35.789 Okay, cool, inspired, I hope, by the Holy Spirit. Okay, 184 00:14:35.870 --> 00:14:41.340 we'll find out as we as we critique this thing. Yeah, one 185 00:14:41.379 --> 00:14:43.220 of the first things I want to mention, of course, she's walking up 186 00:14:43.539 --> 00:14:48.620 and you greet her and right away you get the litteratuender their hands. So 187 00:14:48.860 --> 00:14:50.539 that's important, although she did brush me off. I didn't know if you 188 00:14:50.620 --> 00:14:54.649 saw that. Initially she was trying to just get away. She really didn't 189 00:14:54.649 --> 00:14:58.409 want me to approach. That is obviously a very common sure occurrence. So 190 00:15:00.250 --> 00:15:05.850 we do our best to persist gently and kindly. Right, yeah, gentle 191 00:15:05.049 --> 00:15:13.600 persistence, maybe holy ghost inspired annoyance. I don't know. We'd had. 192 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.440 We've had one young lady in particular, I think has happened before, to 193 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:22.590 where they've gone in and out of the abortion center several times and we keep 194 00:15:22.629 --> 00:15:24.990 on calling out to them and they said it's because of our persistence that they 195 00:15:24.990 --> 00:15:28.629 finally came over and talk to us. So, yeah, that's a little 196 00:15:28.629 --> 00:15:31.750 encouragement for you guys. Be Persistent and don't forget this is a life and 197 00:15:31.870 --> 00:15:35.299 death situation, right, so if we bother them a little bit, if 198 00:15:35.340 --> 00:15:39.299 we get on their nerves a little bit, we're not harassing them, but 199 00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:43.820 we're dealing with the murder of a child. You trying to save them from 200 00:15:43.820 --> 00:15:48.299 the horror that comes to them because of abortion, but also save their baby. 201 00:15:48.419 --> 00:15:50.370 So right, that's a sad note. Yeah, one of the things 202 00:15:50.450 --> 00:15:54.210 it really stuck out to me in this, which is true, it does 203 00:15:54.330 --> 00:15:58.970 happen from time to time, actually kind of often, is maddie mentioned. 204 00:15:58.409 --> 00:16:02.529 I've heard a lot about you guys. Oh yes, yeah, and I 205 00:16:02.690 --> 00:16:07.519 really, I really wanted tonight again. I guess I could use feedback on 206 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:11.600 whether what I did say and do was appropriate, but I wanted to hit 207 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:15.480 that head on and just say, yes, they say we lie, they 208 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.509 say that we're not nice, whatever, and to counter that and say that 209 00:16:19.710 --> 00:16:22.909 it's not true. What they say about is is not true. Right, 210 00:16:22.950 --> 00:16:29.509 yeah, I think just drilling into that is important. Acknowledging it. Oh, 211 00:16:29.549 --> 00:16:32.190 yes, they told you that we're, you know, crazy, angry 212 00:16:32.230 --> 00:16:36.299 protesters, right, the question that I'll ask often times when I hear that. 213 00:16:36.340 --> 00:16:37.659 Also, they told you when you were coming, to watch out for 214 00:16:37.659 --> 00:16:41.539 us because we're angry protesters. Do I look like an angry protester? Yeah, 215 00:16:41.620 --> 00:16:45.659 yeah, and that kind of gives me the ability to springboard off of 216 00:16:45.740 --> 00:16:48.690 that to because what I want to do is I want to transfer the trust 217 00:16:48.970 --> 00:16:52.769 that they have in the abortion center to me and ultimately to the Lord. 218 00:16:52.769 --> 00:16:56.250 And so I contrast. They told you this, but here's what you're seeing. 219 00:16:56.289 --> 00:17:00.529 Right. Can you really believe everything else they told you? Right, 220 00:17:00.009 --> 00:17:03.400 don't get doubt. Good. They also told you that they're here to help 221 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:07.480 women. They also told you that your baby's a blob of tissue or product 222 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:10.839 of conception or whatever. Right, and so maybe that's stuff. Yes, 223 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:15.950 up for question to write. Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, so 224 00:17:15.069 --> 00:17:18.950 that was an important thing, I think, to dispel the lies that they've 225 00:17:18.950 --> 00:17:22.109 been told, to not shy away from that or just ignore that, but 226 00:17:22.190 --> 00:17:26.190 to acknowledge, and I think you did acknowledge that there was a little bit 227 00:17:26.269 --> 00:17:32.460 of of well, I think toward the end a little bit of hesitency as 228 00:17:32.539 --> 00:17:33.900 she was walking to the clinic, and sometimes you can pick up on that. 229 00:17:33.980 --> 00:17:37.059 So maybe we'll talk about that toward the end, because that's when you 230 00:17:37.180 --> 00:17:41.059 takes us a little bit later, later on there. But but yeah, 231 00:17:41.059 --> 00:17:45.650 but one of the immediate things that I did and that I think we all 232 00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:51.250 should do, we should all remember that. However long that session last, 233 00:17:51.970 --> 00:17:55.529 we don't know. Yeah, we don't know. And so it's important to 234 00:17:55.650 --> 00:18:00.359 get important facts out there fast, the important things that you want to say 235 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:03.839 out there fast. Sure. So right away what I tried to do is 236 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:08.160 introduce the idea of the value of that child right to God, yeah, 237 00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:11.559 the development of the baby. Yeah, and that's something that us all throughout 238 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:17.109 this entire counseling session is you weaving in the humanity of the baby, really 239 00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:21.750 talking about that, really making that baby a person. That baby is a 240 00:18:21.829 --> 00:18:25.990 person, but helping to make that baby a person to that mother. Yeah, 241 00:18:25.990 --> 00:18:27.500 I think you do that really well. Yeah. Well, thank you, 242 00:18:27.940 --> 00:18:36.900 especially, I think, because she gave really good openings, and they 243 00:18:36.940 --> 00:18:40.779 always do. There will always be openings if you pray for the Holy Spirit 244 00:18:41.099 --> 00:18:44.210 that you can like stick your foot in that door that they have just opened. 245 00:18:44.569 --> 00:18:48.650 When she talked about that, she was drinking and smoking and she was 246 00:18:48.809 --> 00:18:55.049 concerned about the that the child would be disabled. Yeah, and then I 247 00:18:55.210 --> 00:19:00.519 asked, are you still and she said no, and using that to springboard 248 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:06.200 into the idea of well, that shows a level of care and concern for 249 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:10.750 for that baby, and so she gave me that. That was a gift 250 00:19:10.910 --> 00:19:14.150 that she probably wasn't really thinking about us as she offered that, but that 251 00:19:14.309 --> 00:19:18.190 was a gift to then really talk about. That's what is a normal maternal 252 00:19:18.269 --> 00:19:22.670 response and that's what what you should feel. Yeah, absolutely, the desire 253 00:19:22.750 --> 00:19:29.259 to protect that child. So so, yeah, that another thing, another 254 00:19:29.380 --> 00:19:36.740 counseling, I guess concept to remember is you're going to hear terrible things. 255 00:19:36.940 --> 00:19:41.730 You're going to hear things from the mom's what they have done in in knowing 256 00:19:41.809 --> 00:19:45.529 that they're pregnant. That will curl your toes. Oh yeah, I mean 257 00:19:45.849 --> 00:19:49.609 a mom saying this, this woman saying that I've been drinking and smoking and 258 00:19:51.009 --> 00:19:55.880 you have to be so careful not to express horror. Oh Yeah, because 259 00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:59.960 that will shut that conversation down if she feels condemned. I was in a 260 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:03.759 real situation, I would be horrified. I would know, especially alcohol, 261 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:10.950 that actually can be very devastating for all. Alcohol Syndrome can be very devastating 262 00:20:11.470 --> 00:20:17.109 and I think that that damage from that can occur even in the first towards 263 00:20:17.150 --> 00:20:22.660 the end of the first trimester. So that is a dangerous thing, yeah, 264 00:20:22.700 --> 00:20:25.180 for a mom to still be doing. Yeah, and it is a 265 00:20:25.180 --> 00:20:27.180 terrible thing for mom to do to her baby. Right. Yeah, but 266 00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:32.819 in that that scenario, just you drinking and smoking. What's what's wrong with 267 00:20:32.980 --> 00:20:36.569 you? Yeah, exactly. That's what you should say. Is that a 268 00:20:36.609 --> 00:20:40.970 horrible thing to do? Yes, it is. Yeah, but abortions even 269 00:20:41.250 --> 00:20:44.089 more of a horrible thing because in that situation, could it affect the baby? 270 00:20:44.289 --> 00:20:47.569 It certainly could. Yeah, but in an abortion, could it affect 271 00:20:47.609 --> 00:20:49.400 the baby? Well, it's certainly going to. That's right now, no 272 00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:52.559 doubt about it. So you want to make sure that the way you come 273 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:59.440 across is one of not accepting of her behavior, but also you don't want 274 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:02.759 to shut the conversation down right away, and I do think it's appropriate to 275 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:06.630 mention in the course of the conversation. I don't think it's appropriate to mention 276 00:21:06.710 --> 00:21:08.269 like right away. Don't you know that can hurt your baby? Right. 277 00:21:08.390 --> 00:21:11.509 I think it is important as you're building a relationship with her, because that's 278 00:21:11.509 --> 00:21:15.789 what you're doing in any conversation like this that you're having a one on one 279 00:21:15.829 --> 00:21:19.619 conversation, your relationship building, you're trying to build a relationship, you're trying 280 00:21:19.700 --> 00:21:23.299 to build trust. Once you, in the course of the conversation, got 281 00:21:23.380 --> 00:21:27.059 her trust, that's when you can mention those sort of things. Like when 282 00:21:27.099 --> 00:21:30.819 I'm talking to men, I will talk about fornication, I will talk about 283 00:21:30.819 --> 00:21:34.450 sex outside of marriage. Probably not talking about it on the front end, 284 00:21:34.529 --> 00:21:37.049 though, so much, yeah, as when I build a little bit of 285 00:21:37.130 --> 00:21:41.970 relationship with them, I mentioned to them about sex outside of merit, because 286 00:21:41.970 --> 00:21:45.170 I don't want to shut the conversation down immediately, and so I think you 287 00:21:45.289 --> 00:21:48.839 did an excellent job in that. One of the things Maddie said basically was 288 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:52.680 what she said, I think, word for word. This baby is going 289 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.519 to be so messed up. Sometimes the yeah, and you have to ask 290 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:00.039 yourself, okay, where did she get that idea? Right, yeah, 291 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:04.269 because if I'm hearing that, I'm thinking, well, of course we know 292 00:22:04.430 --> 00:22:08.549 that a right. Yeah, but my guess is going to be that she's 293 00:22:08.589 --> 00:22:15.630 got some friends that have been speaking into her situation and being giving her reasons 294 00:22:15.259 --> 00:22:18.339 that it's okay to have an abortion. Yeah, do you know what I'm 295 00:22:18.339 --> 00:22:22.180 saying that's what we do when we know something is wrong. And Listen, 296 00:22:22.460 --> 00:22:25.859 people know, women know that abortion is wrong. We look for, we 297 00:22:26.339 --> 00:22:30.890 grasp for reasons to make it justifiable. And that's her reason. And so 298 00:22:30.970 --> 00:22:33.250 when you're talking to these MOMS, you talking to these DADS, look for 299 00:22:33.369 --> 00:22:37.490 that, because that's that's the thing that basically I go for when I ask 300 00:22:37.569 --> 00:22:40.650 the question if we could take care of one thing going on in your life, 301 00:22:40.690 --> 00:22:41.569 with that one thing, be yeah, or's. You know, I 302 00:22:41.569 --> 00:22:45.519 might frame it a little differently. Yeah, but really what you're looking for 303 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:51.279 is that thing that gives them the justification that they need to kill their child 304 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:55.519 and to make it a good decision. Yeah, and the way you're going 305 00:22:55.640 --> 00:23:00.829 to hear that, it is not always immediately offered, but the way you're 306 00:23:00.829 --> 00:23:04.630 going to finally truly get at the root of a matter is ask questions. 307 00:23:04.750 --> 00:23:10.869 Keep asking questions. I learned that on a counseling session I had just this 308 00:23:11.069 --> 00:23:14.900 weekend where it was a long, long session and it was until a half 309 00:23:14.940 --> 00:23:21.099 an hour into talking to this mom that I truly understood why she really was 310 00:23:21.299 --> 00:23:26.180 there, what the issue was, and I didn't know. So I just 311 00:23:26.380 --> 00:23:30.250 asked the Holy Spirit to guide me. I didn't know what to say, 312 00:23:30.369 --> 00:23:33.890 I didn't know how to enter into like a gospel discussion, or even really 313 00:23:33.049 --> 00:23:37.849 but to offer her. So I just kept asking questions. And if you 314 00:23:38.009 --> 00:23:44.640 keep asking questions, eventually they're going to say something that is going to help 315 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:48.160 you, yeah, to to Spring Board into whatever it is that you should 316 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:52.000 be talking to them about now. Now, I did notice something that I 317 00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:56.589 would critique you on, okay, and it's something that I think happens in 318 00:23:56.670 --> 00:23:59.549 every conversation. Yes, so it's not so much a critique for you, 319 00:23:59.710 --> 00:24:02.470 it's a critique, critique for all of us, Uh Huh. But when 320 00:24:02.470 --> 00:24:04.910 you're having these conversations, you're passionate, you're trying to get information there. 321 00:24:06.150 --> 00:24:10.259 You you don't want to lose them and you don't want to leave so much 322 00:24:10.299 --> 00:24:12.460 space for them just to babble. Sometimes you can interrupt them, and I 323 00:24:12.579 --> 00:24:15.220 know this. At one point right she was going to finish a statement but 324 00:24:15.339 --> 00:24:19.619 you interrupted and came on in there. And again, that's not just a 325 00:24:19.700 --> 00:24:22.940 critique for you as a critique for all of us, just something we do 326 00:24:22.019 --> 00:24:26.569 because we're trying to continue in a train of thought. But I do think 327 00:24:26.730 --> 00:24:33.730 to me a a gallon of listening is worth a pint of talking, and 328 00:24:33.890 --> 00:24:37.690 so if we can listen, as long as we're not losing them, if 329 00:24:37.769 --> 00:24:41.240 we can listen, it gives us a lot more fuel to continue the conversation 330 00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:45.920 and also it lets them know that we're they're not just to deliver information, 331 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:49.599 but to build a relationship with them. Yeah, yeah, that's a really 332 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:56.349 good point and that's actually something that I struggle with period. I want to 333 00:24:56.430 --> 00:25:00.069 get my thoughts out. Yeah, and so I interrupt a lot. I 334 00:25:00.309 --> 00:25:02.309 know I do that. I probably do it to you all the time. 335 00:25:02.430 --> 00:25:04.589 Yeah, you do. Yeah, sorry about that, but let me give 336 00:25:04.589 --> 00:25:07.700 you a counterpoint. I agree with you. By the way, in this 337 00:25:07.819 --> 00:25:11.460 counseling session, you're absolutely correct. And and this was a mom that was 338 00:25:11.740 --> 00:25:15.180 hearing me, she wasn't trying to shut me up or anything. If you 339 00:25:15.460 --> 00:25:22.089 have a mom like one I had today that was talking about this just kind 340 00:25:22.130 --> 00:25:30.049 of really off the wall spiritual beliefs, yeah, and getting into reasons why 341 00:25:30.970 --> 00:25:36.440 she should be able to abort because of these really off the wall spiritual beliefs, 342 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:40.400 and I am we're walking back towards the abortion center, and I know 343 00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:44.440 how I have limited time. That was a purposeful interruption. I made a 344 00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:49.000 purposeful interruption because I thought I'm running out of time. She's just feeding further 345 00:25:49.269 --> 00:25:53.470 into the rationalizations for why to abhort and I've got maybe three more minutes till 346 00:25:53.470 --> 00:25:59.950 we get there. And I did purposely stop her talking. Yeah, by 347 00:26:00.269 --> 00:26:06.539 introducing what I thought were more truthful, realistic discussions about the value of that 348 00:26:06.619 --> 00:26:11.220 child and value of God. And in those situations when you interrupt, because 349 00:26:11.220 --> 00:26:15.220 I know exactly what you're talking about. I mean I've had so many conversations 350 00:26:15.339 --> 00:26:18.380 where I've had to just say hey, I get what you're saying, and 351 00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:19.730 that's what I do when I interrupt. I don't just come in with my 352 00:26:19.849 --> 00:26:25.529 statement, but I'm like this, I understand that and I'm hear what you're 353 00:26:25.529 --> 00:26:29.849 saying. What can I just say? Yeah, and then I say what? 354 00:26:30.009 --> 00:26:33.400 Yea What? And it's good in the relation away building the relation, 355 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:36.079 because what you don't want to do is you don't want to shut shut the 356 00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:40.720 conversation down, pretty surely, but you also have to realize that the conversation 357 00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:44.839 typically when you're standing in front of the abortion center or they're you know, 358 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:48.390 they're walking into the abortion center, it's going to end at some point. 359 00:26:48.710 --> 00:26:51.750 Right, it's now, once you get them away, kind of like you 360 00:26:51.869 --> 00:26:53.190 did toward the end of this you let's go sit down over here in the 361 00:26:53.230 --> 00:26:56.630 shade, let's go in the Mobultra sound unit, let's get down the road 362 00:26:56.670 --> 00:27:00.109 to a pregnancy center. Then you've got more time, right. But right 363 00:27:00.150 --> 00:27:03.500 there in front of the abortion center, right there, is they're walking into 364 00:27:03.500 --> 00:27:07.220 their appointment. You got to be as concise as possible. We got to 365 00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:11.859 get to the point as much as possible and then balance being relational as well. 366 00:27:11.980 --> 00:27:15.500 It's not an easy balance, right, and so sometimes we'll get off 367 00:27:15.619 --> 00:27:19.009 balance and it's sometimes of necessity we do that. Yeah, and it is 368 00:27:19.130 --> 00:27:25.769 definitely harder when you know, okay, there's a baby's life really is hanging 369 00:27:25.809 --> 00:27:29.009 in the balance. That wasn't the case. I knew in the mock session. 370 00:27:29.049 --> 00:27:32.680 Right, she's a pregnant exactly. No, baby's going to die. 371 00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:37.039 So it is a little bit artificial. Yeah, artificial there. But but 372 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:45.829 yeah, I thought also in terms of critiquing, that I also really never 373 00:27:45.869 --> 00:27:52.109 acknowledged her concerns about the dangerous activity and that it could indeed be harmful, 374 00:27:52.190 --> 00:27:56.309 in that the fears were rational. I really think, yes, I think 375 00:27:56.430 --> 00:28:00.740 that you did. Oh, you do well in the sense this. This 376 00:28:00.859 --> 00:28:04.339 is what I really liked, because you took that whole concern for her baby, 377 00:28:04.380 --> 00:28:08.299 because you did. You Did articulate understand your concern for your baby and 378 00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:14.009 you kind of turned it around and used it as fuel to help her to 379 00:28:14.089 --> 00:28:18.250 see that this is a natural so you said something like that maternal instinct that 380 00:28:18.329 --> 00:28:21.089 you feel that you want to protect your baby, right, and that you 381 00:28:21.369 --> 00:28:25.329 you don't want any harm to had come to your child. Yeah, is 382 00:28:25.450 --> 00:28:27.759 actually a God given thing, because you know that you want to protect your 383 00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:32.160 child. Okay. Now, obviously that's been perverted because you're going to kill 384 00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:36.160 your child because you don't want your child to suffer. That doesn't make sense, 385 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.279 right, but you're bringing that to their knowledge, like, and using 386 00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:41.829 it as a springboard, yeah, to really show them there's something in you 387 00:28:42.509 --> 00:28:45.589 that wants to do the right thing toward your child. Yeah, and that's 388 00:28:45.670 --> 00:28:51.069 something. Let's go in a positive direction with that, rather than taking it 389 00:28:51.150 --> 00:28:53.309 into a direction where you're going to kill that child. Yeah, okay, 390 00:28:53.390 --> 00:28:56.900 well, good, so I can cross that off of something I need to 391 00:28:56.980 --> 00:28:59.740 improve and maybe you could have improved on it a little more. I'm not 392 00:28:59.859 --> 00:29:04.099 sure. I think possibly one of the ways I might have improved on that 393 00:29:06.059 --> 00:29:08.859 is what we always talk about suffering with them right, with compassion, and 394 00:29:10.009 --> 00:29:11.970 just kind of taking that in. Oh yeah, I understand. I don't 395 00:29:12.009 --> 00:29:15.529 know that you so much did that, but it's not like she came up 396 00:29:15.529 --> 00:29:18.970 to you weeping her eyes out. You know I'm saying, it's like she 397 00:29:18.049 --> 00:29:22.609 puts this in. It's obvious that she puts this out there as just a 398 00:29:22.769 --> 00:29:26.440 justification, not that she to me now again, this is just a moccess, 399 00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:30.759 since it was. It wasn't for real, but there wasn't a whole 400 00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:33.880 lot of pain in that statement. Deeply concerned. It was more like, 401 00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:36.440 yeah, I'm just concerned this baby's gonna be all messed up. Right. 402 00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:38.950 So what a whole lot, you know, to suffer with our end. 403 00:29:40.029 --> 00:29:44.150 But maybe you could have put more emotion into that and more like connecting with 404 00:29:44.269 --> 00:29:45.109 that, because, I mean, at the end of the day, that 405 00:29:45.269 --> 00:29:48.789 is a valid concern and if that's truly a concern for her, we need 406 00:29:48.869 --> 00:29:52.299 to identify with that as much as we can. Write that it's a justification 407 00:29:52.420 --> 00:29:56.740 for abortion, but in her mind it is. And then, of course, 408 00:29:56.859 --> 00:29:59.420 like you did, kind of turn it on its head bring around to 409 00:29:59.460 --> 00:30:00.740 it. Well, this is no reason to kill your child. Yeah, 410 00:30:00.779 --> 00:30:04.700 well, as I was thinking through, you can't say everything that you wish 411 00:30:04.779 --> 00:30:07.369 that you could say. Ever, if there's always going to be things you 412 00:30:07.410 --> 00:30:12.809 couldn't say. But I never mentioned Rehab program or anything like that, and 413 00:30:12.970 --> 00:30:18.690 I wondered if I should have. Well, I mean actually you did. 414 00:30:18.009 --> 00:30:22.880 You did. You didn't mention, don't remember particularly a Rehab Program, but 415 00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:26.880 toward the end you talked about the resources and I think you even said that 416 00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:32.960 we have places, I think specifically for you. Didn't say Rehab, but 417 00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:36.549 to me I got from it and I think the person that you were counseling. 418 00:30:37.109 --> 00:30:40.990 What did we call Maddie in this sad again, I guess she's always 419 00:30:41.029 --> 00:30:42.470 there. I don't remember what we cook at. I don't think you got 420 00:30:42.509 --> 00:30:45.829 her name and that maybe, which actually would be a problem, wouldn't it? 421 00:30:45.950 --> 00:30:48.349 Yeah, yeah, that was one of the things that you do. 422 00:30:48.710 --> 00:30:51.779 You did not get her name and I don't think I ever you know why 423 00:30:51.779 --> 00:30:53.940 you didn't get her name, because you met her several times before her and 424 00:30:55.099 --> 00:31:00.740 Sarah obviously sleep right. Anyway, I think you did. You didn't mention 425 00:31:00.819 --> 00:31:06.730 resources. You didn't mention places. Gosh, you didn't use the word Rehab, 426 00:31:07.049 --> 00:31:08.930 but that's what I got from it. Maybe I'll just read into maybe 427 00:31:08.970 --> 00:31:14.450 I did that, but I'm I'm actually agreen with your earlier statement because I 428 00:31:14.529 --> 00:31:19.000 know this is one of my weaknesses as as a human being, that as 429 00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:26.440 a counselor, is listening more carefully and really making other people feel they're heard. 430 00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:29.000 Yeah, I don't think I do that super well. It I do 431 00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:32.519 it, I have to do it consciously. It doesn't come supernaturally to me. 432 00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:34.789 I think it does come naturally to you. Okay, so it's something 433 00:31:34.869 --> 00:31:37.950 that I really have to say, contient, it doesn't come supernaturally to you. 434 00:31:38.230 --> 00:31:41.309 Know it doesn't. You mean it doesn't come naturally, but the Lord 435 00:31:41.430 --> 00:31:45.910 helps you to get it supernaturally. Actually, sometimes I get okay, that's 436 00:31:45.910 --> 00:31:48.420 good, but but, for example, another thing that I felt I could 437 00:31:48.420 --> 00:31:52.819 have improved upon when she talked about the ultrasound, I asked if this was 438 00:31:52.819 --> 00:31:56.380 pretty early on. I said, did you have an ultra sound of the 439 00:31:56.420 --> 00:32:00.579 baby, and she said yes, and then I said so you saw the 440 00:32:00.660 --> 00:32:04.769 baby, and she said no, yeah, I never. That was again 441 00:32:04.769 --> 00:32:09.849 a golden opportunity to say why not. Yeah, what? She even specifically 442 00:32:09.890 --> 00:32:14.730 said something to the effect of I didn't really want to see it, right, 443 00:32:14.970 --> 00:32:16.480 which is kind of weird. Yeah, I mean, because you're thinking, 444 00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:21.039 in real life, would you go to nobi doctor and not want to 445 00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:22.200 see it? Not Want to see the ultra sound, because that was what 446 00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:27.720 was implied there, right, Um, so you didn't run with that. 447 00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:30.589 I didn't run with that and I, you know, in retrospect, I 448 00:32:30.670 --> 00:32:34.509 thought that, were this a real life situation, counselors, we need to 449 00:32:34.549 --> 00:32:37.150 jump on that. Yeah, why not? Because again she's giving us a 450 00:32:37.269 --> 00:32:43.109 golden opportunity to say, there is something in your heart that recognizes if you 451 00:32:43.349 --> 00:32:46.819 look at that ultrasound, abortion will be unthinkable. Yeah, well, you 452 00:32:46.859 --> 00:32:50.259 would have looked at the altar, yea. Yeah, it certainly would have 453 00:32:50.299 --> 00:32:53.460 been a statement in a moment that would have been helpful to capitalize home, 454 00:32:53.579 --> 00:32:58.970 for sure. Right now, I do want to say because one of my 455 00:32:59.089 --> 00:33:05.490 lessons again from something that happened this weekending counseling. I came away thinking all 456 00:33:05.569 --> 00:33:07.089 the millions of things you, I could have said, could have done. 457 00:33:07.289 --> 00:33:13.519 We all do that, right, but then I thought of afterwards, I 458 00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:16.640 found out things that I hadn't known while I was doing the counseling session and 459 00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:22.079 realized wow, when I was counseling, the things that I did focus on 460 00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:27.750 were exactly not only what that woman needed to hear, but what some other 461 00:33:27.829 --> 00:33:32.470 people needed to hear. And so it occurred to me to really make this 462 00:33:32.710 --> 00:33:38.390 point for everyone in a counseling situation. If the Holy Spirit dwells you, 463 00:33:38.950 --> 00:33:44.380 the Holy Spirit knows the situation, he knows the person you're counseling and he 464 00:33:44.700 --> 00:33:49.299 knows what is necessary. Right, and to trust that, yeah, so 465 00:33:49.539 --> 00:33:52.940 that the things that you've left out we can all learn learn from from, 466 00:33:53.059 --> 00:33:55.450 like what we're doing right now, and maybe do better next time. But 467 00:33:55.769 --> 00:34:00.529 sometimes the things that you have left out there was a reason and the things 468 00:34:00.609 --> 00:34:05.730 that you focused on there was a divine, yeah, reason, and to 469 00:34:05.809 --> 00:34:07.329 trust that. Yeah, and that's why I would say, if I could 470 00:34:07.329 --> 00:34:14.480 give you guys that are listening, one single key to being an effective sidewalk 471 00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:17.360 counselor, it would be walk with God. Yes, walk with the Lord. 472 00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:21.559 I mean listen these mock sessions, listen these podcasts, get training, 473 00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:23.989 all that stuff. That stuff's great, yeah, but if you're not walking 474 00:34:24.030 --> 00:34:28.710 with the Lord, it's all just a bunch of information. That's you got 475 00:34:28.789 --> 00:34:31.150 to be walking with Jesus. He knows what's going on far more than we 476 00:34:31.269 --> 00:34:36.829 ever will. Yeah, and he can. He can guide the conversation if 477 00:34:36.829 --> 00:34:39.260 you're in tune with him, and it is important to be prepared. I 478 00:34:39.380 --> 00:34:45.500 totally again again, I agree with everything you've said, but you should also 479 00:34:45.980 --> 00:34:52.929 be prepared. And one of the things that I think I knew and did 480 00:34:52.409 --> 00:34:58.730 did okay in this session, was I knew about that spark of light at 481 00:34:58.769 --> 00:35:05.809 the moment of conception because I read about development of babies and what happens in 482 00:35:05.889 --> 00:35:08.239 you drown all because I know there might be something that's going to be said 483 00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:13.360 in whatever article I'm reading that I'm going to be able to use, and 484 00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:19.119 then, if it's something really good like that, I remember that and was 485 00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:22.909 able to use that. She didn't know that fact. Most people don't know 486 00:35:22.030 --> 00:35:27.269 that fact right, but was then able to use that to get into a 487 00:35:27.349 --> 00:35:31.510 discussion about God and the miracle of God, even in just that simple fact 488 00:35:31.670 --> 00:35:36.420 of what happened in the darkness of the womb, and use that to paint 489 00:35:36.460 --> 00:35:42.260 a picture for her of like versus darkness and the choice choices that that she 490 00:35:42.380 --> 00:35:47.659 faced yeah, so be prepared and and be able to use some of that 491 00:35:47.900 --> 00:35:53.849 preparation to guide and develop a conversation. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and 492 00:35:54.010 --> 00:35:58.650 you kind of you went right into do you believe in God? That was 493 00:35:58.690 --> 00:36:01.570 pretty early in the conversation. Right. I think it's important to go ahead 494 00:36:01.570 --> 00:36:04.760 and ask that question. Do you believe in God? It gives you an 495 00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:06.960 ability. It doesn't mean you don't mention the Lord. When they say no, 496 00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:09.159 like she did. Right, still going to talk about God, but 497 00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:12.840 it gives you at least where you're coming from. You know, if they 498 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:14.960 say, Oh, yeah, believe in God, I believe the bibles that 499 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:16.320 were to God. I believe Jesus is the son of God. I believe. 500 00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:21.190 You know all those like you can bring all that stuff up right, 501 00:36:21.349 --> 00:36:23.150 you can help. Will you believe the bibles were to God? Do you 502 00:36:23.230 --> 00:36:25.869 know what the Bible says? And some one hundred and thirty nine versus thirteen 503 00:36:25.949 --> 00:36:30.710 and fourteen. Yeah, for you form my inward parts. Is God talking 504 00:36:30.750 --> 00:36:34.820 about just one person, as you talked about everybody, right. So it's 505 00:36:34.860 --> 00:36:37.820 helpful. Yeah, when they say they don't believe in God, like she 506 00:36:37.940 --> 00:36:39.340 did, and you, you didn't just leave it there. I think that's 507 00:36:39.340 --> 00:36:43.739 really important. You ask, do you believe in God? She said not 508 00:36:44.099 --> 00:36:46.889 really, but then she got into, and I think you got into what 509 00:36:47.130 --> 00:36:50.449 you believe in a higher powers? From like that, I think that was 510 00:36:50.489 --> 00:36:52.650 your follow up question. She's like Kinda, yeah, yes, so, 511 00:36:52.889 --> 00:36:58.010 yeah, and that is I think for all of you who are in a 512 00:36:58.170 --> 00:37:00.289 city or a place where you're not in the Bible belt, to maybe you're 513 00:37:00.329 --> 00:37:05.800 going to have people more likely to say I'm spiritual but I don't believe in 514 00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:08.719 God. I do consider myself spiritual. To ask that question. Will so 515 00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:13.400 explain that you believe in a higher power. That happened just today. Yeah, 516 00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:15.599 it was. It was a woman who said no, I don't believe 517 00:37:15.639 --> 00:37:19.230 in God and I asked that follow up question. Will you do you believe 518 00:37:19.269 --> 00:37:22.909 in a higher power? And she did, and from there your you are 519 00:37:22.949 --> 00:37:28.829 able to enter bring God into the equation, using from there whatever their perspective 520 00:37:28.869 --> 00:37:32.019 is and bring it to a more truthful perspective of God. But also this 521 00:37:32.260 --> 00:37:36.619 is if I have someone that says right out I don't believe in God, 522 00:37:36.780 --> 00:37:40.780 I am probably I'm not, never gonna not mention God, but I am 523 00:37:40.940 --> 00:37:45.889 going to go into more of the scientific facts and some of the things of 524 00:37:45.969 --> 00:37:51.010 human development to help them to perceive the humanity of that baby. Yeah, 525 00:37:51.170 --> 00:37:55.809 not solely from God's viewpoint, but from, I honestly, a secular viewpoint, 526 00:37:55.849 --> 00:38:00.760 a scientific viewpoint, just to dispel the thought that this is just a 527 00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:05.679 blob of inhibit tissue exactly. Yeah, yeah, I think you did that. 528 00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:08.000 Like I mentioned anything earlier, you did a very good job of weaving 529 00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:12.760 in the humanity the baby, constantly talking about that baby, so a human 530 00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:15.710 being, a child. Using those words is important. Yeah, springboard and 531 00:38:15.750 --> 00:38:20.070 off of that scientific fact, you know about light, that spark of light. 532 00:38:20.110 --> 00:38:25.190 Yeah, and what I think, though, was possibly for me well, 533 00:38:25.349 --> 00:38:30.380 to the most impactful things. The first thing was contrasting light with darkness. 534 00:38:30.420 --> 00:38:32.940 Yeah, as you talk about God and you talk about how Jesus is 535 00:38:34.420 --> 00:38:37.300 the light of the world. She even finished a statement that you started. 536 00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:40.219 You know, God said let there be light, which is actually a very 537 00:38:40.300 --> 00:38:45.050 common thing, even for people who say that they're atheist. Right. As 538 00:38:45.250 --> 00:38:49.130 you know, a society, so much of the word of God has been 539 00:38:49.170 --> 00:38:52.210 woven into our vernacular, into our language and things like that, like the 540 00:38:52.289 --> 00:38:54.050 phrase apple of my eye. That's a biblical phrase. You know, there's 541 00:38:54.050 --> 00:38:57.800 other phrases that we use, and so we know these things. You know, 542 00:38:57.880 --> 00:39:00.039 God said let there be light and she knew it. She finished it, 543 00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:02.159 Sprung Board off of that, talked about how Jesus is the light of 544 00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:06.960 the world, which I think was was really good. And then, as 545 00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:09.989 she had talked about in the very beginning how they told her how bad we 546 00:39:10.070 --> 00:39:15.829 were, you started talking about well, walking into that place, how do 547 00:39:15.869 --> 00:39:17.510 you feel? Do you feel like that's a place where there's light, you 548 00:39:17.590 --> 00:39:21.110 know, God us, the God of light, or is that a place 549 00:39:21.230 --> 00:39:24.900 of darkness? And you really contrast that, and I think making that contrast 550 00:39:25.380 --> 00:39:31.340 not a US against them contrast really, but it's really a contrast of who 551 00:39:32.340 --> 00:39:37.340 who in this scenario that's coming to you with a proposition. They're coming to 552 00:39:37.420 --> 00:39:39.889 you with the proposition of will kill your baby for money. Yeah, you're 553 00:39:40.010 --> 00:39:43.730 we're coming to you with a proposition of will help you for free. Who 554 00:39:43.730 --> 00:39:46.449 Do you think has your best interest in my really, and that's the question 555 00:39:46.530 --> 00:39:51.489 that you're asking. We we represent the Lord, and so it's not us, 556 00:39:51.809 --> 00:39:53.000 but it's the Lord. But who do you think has your best interests 557 00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:58.039 in mind? Yeah, and I even will sometimes talk about the money aspect. 558 00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:01.239 They're going to charge you whatever it is, pend on how far along 559 00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:05.760 she is. In that scenario, probably seven or eight hundred dollars for an 560 00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:07.590 abortion. Right. She was ten weeks along, so maybe lesson that. 561 00:40:09.349 --> 00:40:14.789 And we're offering you things for free. Who you think, in this situation 562 00:40:14.989 --> 00:40:17.469 has your best interests in mine? We don't want anything from you. They 563 00:40:17.750 --> 00:40:21.269 they're going to take your money. They told you that. We're just a 564 00:40:21.309 --> 00:40:24.500 much angry protesters here. We are talking to you very, very, very 565 00:40:24.539 --> 00:40:30.179 kindly and offering you things. There isn't us of the against them kind of 566 00:40:30.179 --> 00:40:32.820 dynamic going on there. And who shakes out better? Who can you trust 567 00:40:32.940 --> 00:40:37.449 more? And it really is that issue of trust. You can also even 568 00:40:37.530 --> 00:40:42.090 use that if you have a big pro abortion presence. YEA, that is 569 00:40:42.210 --> 00:40:46.170 trying to drown you out and the women are really struggling to hear the choice 570 00:40:46.250 --> 00:40:52.199 for life. I will bring up that contrast that who is really offering you 571 00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:54.840 a choice? Do you hear US trying to drown out the choice for death? 572 00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:59.000 No, we can't. We can't even come up on to the property. 573 00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:01.079 Yeah, but who? Why do you think they are trying to drown 574 00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:07.590 out the choice is of help and and life. If, if it's, 575 00:41:07.829 --> 00:41:10.949 if they're truly people of choice, wouldn't they want you to hear right that 576 00:41:12.070 --> 00:41:15.070 you really do have another choice? So I think it is it is good 577 00:41:15.190 --> 00:41:20.579 to bring the contrast, yeah, of truly what what they're facing out there. 578 00:41:20.579 --> 00:41:22.900 Yeah, so that was the first thing I thought was like really, 579 00:41:22.940 --> 00:41:29.059 really good, that contrast. And then the second your testimony. You shared 580 00:41:29.099 --> 00:41:31.619 your testimony, which really was similar to hers. Right, you were pregnant, 581 00:41:34.289 --> 00:41:37.210 not a believer in Jesus, right, right, you're an atheist and 582 00:41:37.369 --> 00:41:42.449 had an abortion. HMM, didn't regret it immediately, but did in the 583 00:41:42.530 --> 00:41:45.050 course of things. You did, and that's what brought you to the Lord, 584 00:41:45.289 --> 00:41:47.920 is having a child and realizing that. So you brought that dynamic in 585 00:41:49.239 --> 00:41:52.960 really your testimony to try to save her from that being her testimony, yeah, 586 00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:55.039 which I think was really good. Yeah, listen, guys, you 587 00:41:55.159 --> 00:41:59.119 have a testimony right some way, shape or form, whether it has to 588 00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:02.710 do with being pregnant outside of marriage or having had an abortion or not, 589 00:42:04.269 --> 00:42:06.670 none of that at all. You still have a testimony you can share. 590 00:42:06.670 --> 00:42:10.150 Yeah, and you can also bring other people's testimonies into equation as well. 591 00:42:10.389 --> 00:42:14.710 Sure, I have a friend that was pregnant in high school and here was 592 00:42:14.750 --> 00:42:17.219 her story and you can just talk about how God is good or you can 593 00:42:17.260 --> 00:42:22.340 talk about how things didn't go so good because you didn't trust the Lord's right. 594 00:42:22.420 --> 00:42:23.820 Shared a testimony. I think is important. Yeah, I want to 595 00:42:23.980 --> 00:42:29.460 mention something about that testimony too, because, remember, this is mock this 596 00:42:29.579 --> 00:42:35.289 is pretend I'm talking to someone who's my buddy. He's probably heard my testimony 597 00:42:35.409 --> 00:42:40.969 many, many times, and at that part of this mock session I almost 598 00:42:40.969 --> 00:42:45.599 started crying as I was sharing my testimony because the power of that testimony, 599 00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:50.440 in the sorrow of it, it was just it's fresh every time I say 600 00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:54.360 it, honestly. But maddie also look stricken if you look at her face 601 00:42:54.440 --> 00:42:58.079 at that moment. Yeah, and she said all she wanted to do was 602 00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:02.070 hug me. So the reason I mentioned that is the power of your personal 603 00:43:02.230 --> 00:43:08.070 testimony. It should never be underestimated. If you have a storytell it. 604 00:43:08.230 --> 00:43:13.860 Maybe you it you walked a friend into an abortion. Maybe it's up some 605 00:43:14.260 --> 00:43:17.500 someone else you know, maybe your own parents something, but we all do 606 00:43:17.780 --> 00:43:22.860 probably have a story and we should we should share it. Yeah, absolutely. 607 00:43:22.780 --> 00:43:25.860 Well, kind of wrapping this thing up, the last thing I wanted 608 00:43:25.860 --> 00:43:29.690 to mention that I think was a good thing that you mentioned, that you 609 00:43:30.130 --> 00:43:36.650 said in this in this mock session, was just the reality that you're concerned 610 00:43:36.690 --> 00:43:39.809 that your baby might be affected by drug use or alcohol use, for smoking 611 00:43:39.849 --> 00:43:45.519 and all that stuff, and there's not a hundred percent certainty that that's that's 612 00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:47.639 the case. Right. There's no there's no guarantee. Now, could it 613 00:43:47.719 --> 00:43:51.360 affect your baby? I think you said this. It certainly could. Those 614 00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:53.360 things are not good. And so you did, after you had built a 615 00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:58.110 relationship with her, right, kind of drop that. told her you shouldn't 616 00:43:58.150 --> 00:44:00.590 continue in those they can harm your baby. Yeah, but there's not a 617 00:44:00.630 --> 00:44:05.030 hundred percent certainty. Right. I don't know that you said this, but 618 00:44:05.110 --> 00:44:07.630 it is obviously implied. It's not a hundred percent certainty that that's going to 619 00:44:07.710 --> 00:44:12.539 harm your baby, but it is a hundred percent certainty that abortion is right. 620 00:44:12.940 --> 00:44:15.420 So let's just do the right thing. And then you led her. 621 00:44:16.260 --> 00:44:20.300 I mean the scenario here's you're in front of the the abortion center, right, 622 00:44:20.460 --> 00:44:23.059 she's headed right into the abortion center, and then to kind of really, 623 00:44:23.099 --> 00:44:27.250 I think, give a transition to this is just what did you come 624 00:44:27.289 --> 00:44:29.929 over here and talk with me. Let's just sit in the shade. So 625 00:44:30.409 --> 00:44:35.449 that could be doing that, sitting in the shade, getting in your vehicle, 626 00:44:35.570 --> 00:44:37.599 maybe. I don't know, depending on the scenario and our folks in 627 00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:40.800 New York, that might be the scenario. Spatial it was really cold. 628 00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:44.559 Hey, let's just sit and sit in my vehicle. Let's talk a little 629 00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:47.000 first, get them away from the side. will get them away from really 630 00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:52.869 the battle zone. Maybe taking them on board the MOBILETRA sound unit, if 631 00:44:52.869 --> 00:44:55.469 you have that, taking them to a pregnancy center, if you have that, 632 00:44:55.710 --> 00:44:58.750 you know whatever, but just getting them away from there, which I 633 00:44:58.789 --> 00:45:02.269 think was really good. And and so yeah, let's it. I think 634 00:45:02.309 --> 00:45:05.630 you did a great job. Well, thank you. But I did want 635 00:45:05.630 --> 00:45:09.179 to make a point about when, when I took her away, I didn't 636 00:45:09.260 --> 00:45:15.940 offer an ultrasound right, and instead I offered to share the Gospel. Okay, 637 00:45:15.539 --> 00:45:21.019 and again that was a conscious decision based on how the conversation had gone. 638 00:45:21.059 --> 00:45:24.530 I thought there had been so much talk about God that I just didn't 639 00:45:24.530 --> 00:45:29.690 want to wait on the sharing of the Gospel. But also in this scenario 640 00:45:29.690 --> 00:45:32.610 I was thinking, well, she refused to see the ultrasound before. Yeah, 641 00:45:32.929 --> 00:45:39.519 and so maybe what she needs now is a proper understanding of God and 642 00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:44.440 then offer an ultrasound. That was my thinking. That may or may not 643 00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:47.679 have been the best decision. May It. Most of the time we say 644 00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:52.789 get them on an ultrasround if you can get them to. So that that 645 00:45:52.949 --> 00:45:57.909 may have been a not such a good decision. And I also want to 646 00:45:57.949 --> 00:46:02.269 say that we have a follow up podcast in video that we're planning to do 647 00:46:02.710 --> 00:46:07.900 of really part two, okay, of this. Yeah, where she I 648 00:46:07.059 --> 00:46:10.619 do talk show how I shared the Gospel. But I wanted to mention that 649 00:46:10.780 --> 00:46:15.460 now because really, throughout this discussion with her, because I knew she didn't 650 00:46:15.460 --> 00:46:22.250 know the Lord, I was purposefully trying to share God, yeah, and 651 00:46:22.809 --> 00:46:25.849 prepare the way for May being able to share the Gospel later on. Yeah, 652 00:46:27.010 --> 00:46:30.289 yeah, that's good. We'll guess stay tuned for the follow up on 653 00:46:30.409 --> 00:46:36.920 that and you'll be blessed by Hopefuy. Hopefully you were blessed by this and 654 00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:40.320 learned something, and so we would love for you to reach out maybe give 655 00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:45.920 us some suggestions on I mean, how are we doing on these mock sessions? 656 00:46:46.119 --> 00:46:49.949 We talked about whether or not we just play it, let you listen 657 00:46:49.989 --> 00:46:52.550 to it, or we play it. It will let you listen to it 658 00:46:52.670 --> 00:46:57.429 then critique it afterwards, like we have been doing, or maybe we critique 659 00:46:57.429 --> 00:47:00.269 it as we go along. I'm not sure. Maybe we just play it 660 00:47:00.349 --> 00:47:01.820 and keep our mouth shut and don't even critique it at all. I don't 661 00:47:01.820 --> 00:47:05.659 know, but we'd certainly love to hear from you. Want to equip you. 662 00:47:06.139 --> 00:47:07.420 Want to equip you in the most effective way, Paul, possible. 663 00:47:07.460 --> 00:47:09.860 So let us know. Let us know if we can improve on this any. 664 00:47:10.260 --> 00:47:14.219 Let us know if there's some things that we can do, episodes on 665 00:47:14.420 --> 00:47:17.730 some as subjects or maybe even mock sessions that we can do about particular scenarios. 666 00:47:17.769 --> 00:47:22.849 Are Certainly all kinds of scenarios you encounter an abortion center. But the 667 00:47:22.929 --> 00:47:25.170 hope is that you guys will be encouraged and equipped, and we hope that 668 00:47:25.250 --> 00:47:29.969 you were. Please again, share this podcast episode, share the podcast in 669 00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:32.559 general with other people. Let him know what we're doing and how they can 670 00:47:32.599 --> 00:47:37.119 get on board and they can get trained and all that stuff. We certainly 671 00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:38.440 love for you guys to reach out. You can go and love life dot 672 00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:42.719 org find out more in information about love life. You can reach out to 673 00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:45.829 me, Daniel Love Life Dot Org. You reach out to her Vicky at 674 00:47:45.909 --> 00:47:49.949 Love Life Dot Org, and until next time, God, bless God, 675 00:47:49.989 --> 00:48:07.260 bless o love for love. Give me our love for gratitude. I know 676 00:48:07.619 --> 00:48:15.610 it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious, and some that you