Is Ectopic Pregnancy A Death Sentence?

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.080 --> 00:00:07.950 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me, Lord, 2 00:00:08.429 --> 00:00:12.550 I am yours. I welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. 3 00:00:12.789 --> 00:00:16.469 This episode we're going to talk about a pretty difficult subject, a topic pregnancy. 4 00:00:16.989 --> 00:00:20.109 We think it's going to be an informative and helpful episode, so stay 5 00:00:20.190 --> 00:00:30.579 tuned. Send Me, Lord. I felt show passish, touch your heart. 6 00:00:33.020 --> 00:00:40.250 Use Me. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. Appreciate you 7 00:00:40.329 --> 00:00:43.570 guys listening and, as always, we appreciate if you guys would leave us 8 00:00:43.570 --> 00:00:46.850 a review on itunes. I know some folks have asked how to leave a 9 00:00:46.890 --> 00:00:51.119 review on itunes and you know, look it up, because it's actually not 10 00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:54.280 easy, to be honest with you. If you go on Itunes, are 11 00:00:54.280 --> 00:00:58.079 you go on the apple PODCAST APP? It's not easy to find how to 12 00:00:58.119 --> 00:01:00.479 leave a review. But actually, if you just scrow down to the very 13 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:03.479 bottom, as you're in our podcast, you can scroll down and you can 14 00:01:03.479 --> 00:01:06.750 see how to leave a review. Five stars are great. We like five 15 00:01:06.790 --> 00:01:10.230 star reviews. They're fun and they might help counteract some of the one star 16 00:01:10.590 --> 00:01:15.670 reviews or some of the negative thousand star reviews that we've gotten over the past 17 00:01:15.670 --> 00:01:19.379 couple of months. Not from our normal get were not from our normal viewership 18 00:01:19.620 --> 00:01:23.900 but from some pretty nasty pro abortion people, which I hopefully in the next 19 00:01:23.939 --> 00:01:26.819 podcast will read some more of those reviews. I think it blessed people to 20 00:01:26.939 --> 00:01:30.859 listen. They're in your fund reviews. They heart preying. But today we're 21 00:01:30.859 --> 00:01:34.170 going to cover a subject that I hope will be a blessing to you guys, 22 00:01:34.250 --> 00:01:37.209 and it's a question that a lot of pro life people have, a 23 00:01:37.290 --> 00:01:38.409 lot of people on the sidewalk. It's something you're going to run into, 24 00:01:38.409 --> 00:01:42.930 if you haven't in your ministry, on the sidewalk, you're going to run 25 00:01:42.930 --> 00:01:47.400 into this. You probably already have, but it's the subject of ectopic pregnancy. 26 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:51.200 Now, right off bat we're going to make sure and let everybody know 27 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:55.959 we're not medical professionals. I'm not, Vicky is not and our guest, 28 00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:59.879 Lisa is not a medical professional. So we're not giving medical advice. What 29 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:05.549 we're giving is just our experience. Lisa has experience in dealing with MOMS that 30 00:02:05.629 --> 00:02:09.629 have had ectopic pregnancies, but also experience in ectopic pregnancy herself. So she 31 00:02:09.830 --> 00:02:15.669 doing a speak from a unique perspective and we're also going to be referencing an 32 00:02:15.710 --> 00:02:20.580 article that I guess we'll put out in the show notes of the podcast, 33 00:02:20.780 --> 00:02:27.099 right, ectopic personhood from the personhood initiative, the personhood initiative. And yes, 34 00:02:27.219 --> 00:02:30.770 the name of the article is sectopic personhood. Yeah, and it's a 35 00:02:30.889 --> 00:02:34.889 real healthful article. So we're going to be referencing that article sum but we're 36 00:02:34.930 --> 00:02:39.409 going to talk really again around sidewalk counseling and dealing with the subject of ectopic 37 00:02:39.449 --> 00:02:44.090 pregnancy when you're talking to a mom who's going into an abortion center. And 38 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:47.479 we've had volunteers, Vicky, you mentioned before we started this podcast that one 39 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:52.159 of our newer volunteers. One of our questions on our volunteer application is you 40 00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:57.120 think that there's any exceptions that make it okay for a mother to have an 41 00:02:57.159 --> 00:03:00.990 abortion, and for the most part people say no, there's no exceptions. 42 00:03:00.030 --> 00:03:02.590 But this young lady, xte said Yeah, but only in the case of 43 00:03:02.669 --> 00:03:07.870 ectopic pregnancy, and the reality is that she didn't really understand all of the 44 00:03:07.990 --> 00:03:10.430 INS and out so this you were able to call and talk to her about 45 00:03:10.509 --> 00:03:14.060 this and so we're going to talk about some of that. But we also 46 00:03:14.180 --> 00:03:21.139 understand that even in within pro life ministries and with individuals. There's differing opinions 47 00:03:21.300 --> 00:03:25.219 and views on ectopic pregnancy and we're not going to pretend to solve all of 48 00:03:25.419 --> 00:03:31.930 that because it is a pretty actually difficult question to really try to just answer 49 00:03:32.050 --> 00:03:36.370 and here's, here's the exact answer to it. But I think we're going 50 00:03:36.370 --> 00:03:38.050 to give you, guys, at least some information that you can process, 51 00:03:38.129 --> 00:03:44.879 you can pray about and that will help you in dealing with moms who are 52 00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:49.800 considering abortions because they've been told that they have an ectopic pregnancy. So that's 53 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:57.789 a long beginning to hopefully a good discussion about ectopic pregnancy. But, Lisa, 54 00:03:58.550 --> 00:04:01.949 real quick just introduce yourself and just so you folks know, Lisa has 55 00:04:01.990 --> 00:04:04.550 been involved on the sidewalk for a long time. She's going to share a 56 00:04:04.550 --> 00:04:09.229 little bit about that and she and her family were instrumental in starting cities for 57 00:04:09.349 --> 00:04:13.500 life back in two thousand and ten or before that. So but introduce yourself 58 00:04:13.580 --> 00:04:15.459 on your with your with your own terms. They're sure. My name is 59 00:04:15.620 --> 00:04:26.129 Lisa metscer and I am a second generation sidewalk counselor. My parents brought me 60 00:04:26.170 --> 00:04:30.850 out at a very young age to the sidewalk to offer hope and help to 61 00:04:31.170 --> 00:04:34.529 a woman that was going into a board. So I've been at this a 62 00:04:34.970 --> 00:04:40.720 really long time and, as Daniel said, I helped mark and I helped 63 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:44.079 my husband mark and I helped with setting up cities for life and getting that 64 00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:46.720 ball rolling there. So that was quite a privilege and then just to see 65 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:53.110 where it has gone. What is amazing we have fourteen children. Three of 66 00:04:53.149 --> 00:04:57.670 those children are adopted and we have a whole bunch of children in heaven because 67 00:04:57.709 --> 00:05:02.269 of miscarriage and one of those babies that we lost was an ectopic pregnancies. 68 00:05:02.430 --> 00:05:09.100 So yeahs can speak from experience coming from this. So yeah, and it 69 00:05:09.259 --> 00:05:14.620 was Lisa that got me involved and cities and cities for life and ultimately and 70 00:05:14.699 --> 00:05:19.220 sidewalk consulated and where where we are today. So I really appreciate Lisa. 71 00:05:19.819 --> 00:05:25.329 So she especially appreciate you coming on a you get get fourteen kids. Yeah, 72 00:05:25.569 --> 00:05:29.089 it's not easy to get away, yeah, from the House, I'm 73 00:05:29.089 --> 00:05:31.329 sure. I'm sure the opportunity to come and do a podcast here in the 74 00:05:31.410 --> 00:05:36.920 office was maybe just opportunity that you seized and you get little skate time. 75 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:42.680 Yeah, we do appreciate you come and so I do want to so that 76 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:46.120 we don't go right into the issue of ectopic practice. We'll talk a little 77 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:48.560 bit about your experience because I think we'll just capitalize on this moment. I 78 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:54.910 said your second generation sidewalk counselors. So your parents were involved. WAS IT 79 00:05:54.990 --> 00:05:59.069 operation rest? And that's right. They started when operation rescue began and kind 80 00:05:59.069 --> 00:06:02.069 of went from there into different opportunities. Yeah, Rally for life, yeah, 81 00:06:02.149 --> 00:06:04.060 like that. So, yeah, yeah, and that was back in 82 00:06:04.100 --> 00:06:09.019 the s late S. I think we got involved, s early S. 83 00:06:09.259 --> 00:06:13.819 wow. Yeah, and then you got involved and then ultimately instrumental in starting 84 00:06:13.899 --> 00:06:16.139 cities for life. And now your kids, your daughter kids, are out 85 00:06:16.139 --> 00:06:19.769 there. Yeah, your daughter Caitlyn, who's what, she's twenty one and 86 00:06:19.769 --> 00:06:26.689 twenty one, is out there almost every Saturday minister and on our Saturday team, 87 00:06:26.730 --> 00:06:30.370 and she's just a tremendous blessing. So there's like three generations and we 88 00:06:30.410 --> 00:06:32.879 should do a podcast about that. Yeah, it the generation of yeah, 89 00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:35.519 actually, I do want to do a podcast. Maybe you guys watch out 90 00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:40.079 for that one about being raised in the pro life movement. Maybe I'll get 91 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:43.160 Kaitlyn. What do you think? Yes, my well, yeah, because 92 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:45.759 I think that is a unique perspective. But yeah, I wanted to touch 93 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:49.589 on that and just again give you guys your family props for for what you 94 00:06:49.750 --> 00:06:55.189 did in starting cities for life and ultimately is led to love life. Love 95 00:06:55.269 --> 00:06:58.829 life sort of sprung out of cities for life in one sense, and then 96 00:06:59.029 --> 00:07:02.180 now love life is just going nationwide and we're seeing God. Yeah, we're 97 00:07:02.180 --> 00:07:06.779 seeing God raise up people all over the the United States, all over the 98 00:07:06.860 --> 00:07:11.660 world, and I find myself, actually, and I know you do too, 99 00:07:11.740 --> 00:07:17.089 Vicki referencing things back to to the og crowd, dude, to Liza 100 00:07:17.529 --> 00:07:21.129 and to Janette, the Wilson family, to the Bendoms and just those who 101 00:07:21.170 --> 00:07:26.449 originally started some of the things that you guys put together. And I think 102 00:07:26.490 --> 00:07:29.769 maybe even this person, person, I think it is article right, it 103 00:07:29.850 --> 00:07:32.639 was from them. Yeah, it's guy found and put it out. Yeah, 104 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:35.600 so that all of our sidewalk counselors can be informed about this. So 105 00:07:35.959 --> 00:07:42.519 we do appreciate you. So let's let's talk about the issue of ectopic pregnancy. 106 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:46.110 Yeah, first and foremost, what are we even talking about? What 107 00:07:46.149 --> 00:07:47.709 does this mean? Some people may not even know what this term means. 108 00:07:47.709 --> 00:07:51.949 Right. So let's let lea say yeah, define define what what that is. 109 00:07:53.149 --> 00:07:57.949 extopic pregnancy is a child that has been conceived, is already growing, 110 00:07:58.069 --> 00:08:01.740 but has implanted in somewhere other than the uterus. So that can be the 111 00:08:01.860 --> 00:08:05.540 Philippian Tube, that can be the abdominal cavity, that can be in the 112 00:08:07.180 --> 00:08:11.420 in the ovary itself. So it's anything outside the uterus. Yeah, okay, 113 00:08:11.860 --> 00:08:16.209 and often times, more often than anywhere else, it's actually the in 114 00:08:16.290 --> 00:08:20.449 Filopian Tobe. Correct, although I've encountered situations. I had one, this 115 00:08:20.569 --> 00:08:24.050 is probably you and a half or so ago, where a young man came 116 00:08:24.089 --> 00:08:26.279 over and told me his wife had an ectopic pregnancy. It was a cervical 117 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:33.200 pregnancy. Yeah, which is pretty, pretty dangerous. So there are other 118 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:37.279 ectopic pregnancies, but if you encounter any of is a small portion of pregnancies 119 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:43.070 that are ectopic, but the larger portion of that small portion are in the 120 00:08:43.149 --> 00:08:46.029 Pelopian tube. So that's mainly we're going to be talking about, although there 121 00:08:46.070 --> 00:08:50.350 are other places where a baby could be placed. So and of course the 122 00:08:50.429 --> 00:08:56.100 danger is that the Floppian tube and all those other places except the if they 123 00:08:56.340 --> 00:09:01.019 somehow get into the abdomen, they there isn't room to expand with that without 124 00:09:01.500 --> 00:09:05.940 that part of your body bursting, right, and then the resultant hemorrhaching. 125 00:09:07.100 --> 00:09:11.769 Is is the issue, right. So I don't know about what you knew 126 00:09:11.009 --> 00:09:16.809 prior to you becoming a mother, but my understanding of ectopic pregnancy before reading 127 00:09:16.889 --> 00:09:22.450 this article was that this was not only a death sentence for the mother, 128 00:09:22.889 --> 00:09:28.000 but a death sentence for the baby. So of course the abortion almost sounds 129 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:31.639 reasonable, right, or does sound reasonable, if that's what you truly believe? 130 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:37.240 They're both going to die, so at least save one, which would 131 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:43.070 which would be the mother. So tell us about maybe just to kind of 132 00:09:43.149 --> 00:09:50.710 help us to understand what it is from a very personal experience to face an 133 00:09:50.750 --> 00:09:54.139 ectopic pregnancy, what you went through, what you did, and and then 134 00:09:54.179 --> 00:09:58.259 we'll go from there maybe to talk about some of the research that in this 135 00:09:58.500 --> 00:10:05.820 personhood initiative article. That is really very eye opening, right. Yeah, 136 00:10:05.899 --> 00:10:09.610 well, this was back in two thousand and six when I found out I 137 00:10:09.690 --> 00:10:16.250 was pregnant. I was kind of surprised by it actually, because I had 138 00:10:16.289 --> 00:10:22.360 had two cycles before where I was pregnant but didn't know it until after that 139 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:24.639 at that second cycle. So it took me by surprised. I was shocked 140 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:28.799 at the location of the baby. I'd actually had some pain. So I 141 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:31.679 went into my obe. They did an ultrasound and they told me that the 142 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:35.990 baby was growing in still had a heartbeat in the tube, in my Philippian 143 00:10:37.070 --> 00:10:39.870 Tube. So how far along were you at that point? That was about 144 00:10:39.870 --> 00:10:45.230 eight weeks. Wow. Yeah, so that was a little bit scary. 145 00:10:45.309 --> 00:10:48.710 They were going to go in and they offered me two different options. They 146 00:10:48.750 --> 00:10:52.659 said surgery, which would probably be the better of the two options, given 147 00:10:52.659 --> 00:10:54.700 the size of the baby. So they said surgery where they could either try 148 00:10:54.700 --> 00:10:58.620 to remove the baby from the tube or remove the tube completely, or to 149 00:10:58.820 --> 00:11:03.700 give me a drug called at the truck sate. So I know immediately I 150 00:11:03.820 --> 00:11:07.049 didn't, you know, coming from that pro life background, that did not 151 00:11:07.169 --> 00:11:11.889 sit well, did did they? Did they think that there was any way 152 00:11:11.049 --> 00:11:16.570 like, did they ever mention anything, transplant, you know, anything to 153 00:11:16.690 --> 00:11:20.559 give you any hope? Or was it just the baby must be killed in 154 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:22.240 order to stay here? Yes, yes, the baby, you know, 155 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:26.600 needed was going to die. Is What they told me. Yeah, or 156 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:28.720 I could die from, you know, my tube rupturing right, which they 157 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:33.029 said could be any moment, and it's a scary place to be but I 158 00:11:33.070 --> 00:11:35.029 knew, because of my background, I knew, because of what I knew 159 00:11:35.029 --> 00:11:39.629 about the Lord and what he said about giving and taking life, that that 160 00:11:39.830 --> 00:11:45.429 wasn't in my my control. I didn't want to take control over ending someone 161 00:11:45.429 --> 00:11:50.299 else's life, and so I told the doctor that, and I don't think 162 00:11:50.299 --> 00:11:54.659 it came to a surprise to my doctor. They kind of knew exactly where 163 00:11:54.659 --> 00:11:58.379 I stood. They said, well, there is this other method of dealing 164 00:11:58.460 --> 00:12:03.850 with a Tu bullock topic pregnancy, and that is called expectant management. I 165 00:12:03.970 --> 00:12:07.769 had never heard of this. Right, I didn't know a whole lot about 166 00:12:07.769 --> 00:12:11.970 a topic pregnancy, but I knew enough to know that those were probably going 167 00:12:13.009 --> 00:12:15.370 to be the only two option. I was given the surgery in the method, 168 00:12:15.409 --> 00:12:18.519 truck say, and I said No. So they gave me this other 169 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:20.440 option. They said, listen, we'll take your HCG levels, the baby 170 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:26.240 probably won't survive, will do repeat ultrasound. You go home, beyond Bedrest, 171 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:31.470 lie down, see what happens, and I obviously opted for that, 172 00:12:31.429 --> 00:12:37.070 knowing what I knew and having the convictions I had, and I went home 173 00:12:37.149 --> 00:12:41.110 and waited it out. I went for repeat testing and by that point the 174 00:12:41.190 --> 00:12:48.259 baby had passed so I rested fully and knowing that I had done everything I 175 00:12:48.500 --> 00:12:54.779 could do for that baby and that I had chosen something that I could live 176 00:12:54.820 --> 00:13:00.649 with, where I could not have lived with choosing to have my baby forcibly 177 00:13:00.809 --> 00:13:05.809 removed or its life supply ended. Yeah, you know, at my choice. 178 00:13:05.129 --> 00:13:09.809 How long was it from the point that you were told that you had 179 00:13:09.850 --> 00:13:13.679 an eck topic pregnancy to the point at which the baby had died? It 180 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:16.799 was actually only a couple days. After only a couple of days. Do 181 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:18.120 you know, and I don't know off hand, I don't mean to put 182 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:22.240 you on the spot, but do you know how often that happens, that 183 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:28.190 the baby does indeed die? It's it's pretty often because the baby's constricted, 184 00:13:28.909 --> 00:13:31.990 and I think it actually says in that personhood article right there about that. 185 00:13:33.269 --> 00:13:35.629 Yeah, the statistics. Okay, so maybe we'll find that later. Is 186 00:13:35.789 --> 00:13:41.820 this we go through that? So did you have to have then surgery to 187 00:13:41.899 --> 00:13:45.220 have the baby removed? Is that a point to which can the baby passed? 188 00:13:45.259 --> 00:13:48.980 Naturally, they told me that it would probably be reabsorbed, and so, 189 00:13:50.299 --> 00:13:52.460 as far as I know, that's what happened. Okay, okay, 190 00:13:52.980 --> 00:13:58.169 so your tubes never ruptured, never had to rupture. Okay, all right, 191 00:13:58.490 --> 00:14:00.490 and I was told what to do when they sent me home. You 192 00:14:00.529 --> 00:14:03.889 know if I showed signs of rupture, what I should do. Okay, 193 00:14:03.090 --> 00:14:09.929 and that's the important kind of point to this whole method is they're watching over, 194 00:14:09.970 --> 00:14:13.240 they're keeping a close eye. So it's called expectant management management, so 195 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:20.240 they're making sure that you're okay. They're kind of a wait and see option 196 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:26.389 here and again. The point is that you don't want to intentionally take the 197 00:14:26.470 --> 00:14:28.110 life of your child, knowing what you know now, I do want to 198 00:14:28.110 --> 00:14:31.950 say this for people who have dealt with this. Maybe there's people that are 199 00:14:31.990 --> 00:14:35.149 listening that have dealt with this, that have had a topic pregnancy, went 200 00:14:35.230 --> 00:14:39.860 to the doctor, the doctor recommended this and that you could be in a 201 00:14:39.899 --> 00:14:45.019 position sometimes, especially when you're already kind of scared and shaken, to make 202 00:14:45.299 --> 00:14:50.340 a really rash decision. And doctors a lot of times are risk adverse and 203 00:14:50.419 --> 00:14:54.049 so they're going to take the path of least resistance and, especially if they're 204 00:14:54.049 --> 00:14:58.090 not pro life doctors, they're gonna just okay, well, when in doubt, 205 00:14:58.409 --> 00:15:01.570 they get out. And so maybe there's people that are listening that you 206 00:15:01.649 --> 00:15:03.850 kind of took that option. We don't, we want, don't want to 207 00:15:03.850 --> 00:15:07.240 bring any condemnation, any guilt and say that you, Lisa is better than 208 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:11.600 you or or anything like that. No, thank God she dug a little 209 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:16.960 deeper and they talked about this expected management and you know, it didn't work 210 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:20.950 out good for the child, but it did work out good for you and 211 00:15:22.350 --> 00:15:26.309 you don't have the guilt of of knowing that you intentionally did that. Those 212 00:15:26.309 --> 00:15:30.710 again, who are listening who maybe you don't know what you don't know, 213 00:15:31.269 --> 00:15:33.269 as if you didn't know this was an option, then how are you going 214 00:15:33.309 --> 00:15:37.620 to be able to access that option? However, now you know, and 215 00:15:37.779 --> 00:15:41.299 even talking to a mom to kind of bring it around to really what we 216 00:15:41.419 --> 00:15:45.220 want is to help, encourage side well counselors, to help a mom who's 217 00:15:45.220 --> 00:15:50.370 telling you she has ecked topic pregnancy to know that there's another option available to 218 00:15:50.490 --> 00:15:52.690 her, that she don't have to intentionally take the life for a child. 219 00:15:52.850 --> 00:15:56.570 She can kind of let, for lack of a bitter term, nature take 220 00:15:56.610 --> 00:16:00.330 its course or whatever. Is a way that you can talk to a mom 221 00:16:00.730 --> 00:16:04.120 in front of an abortion center about the issue of eck topic pregnancy and at 222 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:07.759 least to get a second opinion, I mean because the I don't think women 223 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:11.840 understand. You know that there is this and this is why I speak about 224 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:14.679 it, because I know people that have personally gone through a topic. Pregnancy 225 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:17.840 is chose one of the options given to them and they deal with that guilt. 226 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:19.230 Well, I would just want people to know that there is another option 227 00:16:19.389 --> 00:16:22.789 that's not talked about a whole lot. Right, right. So talk a 228 00:16:22.830 --> 00:16:26.909 little bit about that, because I'm sure you you have thought about this, 229 00:16:26.149 --> 00:16:32.350 that if there is an exception for abortion for the if the life of the 230 00:16:32.509 --> 00:16:38.379 mother is in danger, what is that the really saying about the value of 231 00:16:38.539 --> 00:16:41.460 that child? So exactly? Well, I look at any of my other 232 00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:45.179 children and which is more important? My life or my child's life? You 233 00:16:45.299 --> 00:16:48.370 know, my two year old. You know which life is more important either. 234 00:16:48.409 --> 00:16:52.450 There of equal value and I think God's eyes, and that's how we 235 00:16:52.529 --> 00:16:55.409 have to look at anything. No matter where that child is located, that 236 00:16:55.570 --> 00:17:00.720 doesn't determine value. That child is still valuable no matter where it is growing 237 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:07.480 currently. Yeah, so, any of these exceptions, then it's important, 238 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:11.279 I think, for us a side walk counselors, to speak about that. 239 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:17.349 That there is the tacit admission than that that unborn baby is somehow of less 240 00:17:17.430 --> 00:17:22.349 value and that's not biblical. Yes, so and it and it fuels. 241 00:17:22.630 --> 00:17:26.589 I think what happened in the issue of how to manage a topic pregnancy. 242 00:17:27.230 --> 00:17:33.380 So one of the things that this article brought out is, first of all, 243 00:17:34.339 --> 00:17:38.019 is it a death sentence? Because I think we all thought it. 244 00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:41.339 I did. We thought it was. It was a death sentence for the 245 00:17:41.420 --> 00:17:45.650 MOM. No, it was not a death sentence for you. Correct it. 246 00:17:45.049 --> 00:17:48.490 The MOM can die. I don't want to say she can't, but 247 00:17:48.890 --> 00:17:56.569 there is certainly research in in this article that demonstrates that that is not necessarily 248 00:17:56.609 --> 00:18:00.799 the case. That they they and the the research is a little bit like 249 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:10.480 convoluted and and hard for me to summarize easily, but kind of in in 250 00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:15.430 summary, one of the studies showed that in at least ninety nine point six 251 00:18:15.710 --> 00:18:22.230 of all the ruptured ectopic pregnancies in a study in southern Israel, they did 252 00:18:22.430 --> 00:18:29.380 not result in the death of the mom. That's that's a pretty high success 253 00:18:29.539 --> 00:18:36.019 rate. And and they I think in a lot of these cases successes more 254 00:18:36.900 --> 00:18:41.849 pronounced and likely in the case of expectant management. What you did, and 255 00:18:42.130 --> 00:18:47.490 now auto transfusion, and I thought you had gone through that, but I 256 00:18:47.569 --> 00:18:49.890 guess I was. You know, I did not. Okay, that is 257 00:18:51.049 --> 00:18:52.569 and for auto transfusion. For this, why don't understand what it is? 258 00:18:52.730 --> 00:18:56.680 Is when the tube has ruptured and blood has flowed into the abdominal cavity, 259 00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:02.200 there are actually methods where they can take that blood out and re an inserted 260 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:04.759 into the mother so that she's not bleeding to death. She's having her same 261 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:11.190 blood put back through. Right system. Right. So, so the the 262 00:19:11.349 --> 00:19:15.869 idea that it is a death sentence for the mother is is not. scessarely 263 00:19:17.029 --> 00:19:18.789 true. It's not true. The researchs and there is and you can go 264 00:19:18.910 --> 00:19:22.950 through this all all of you people listening later, later on, because we 265 00:19:22.990 --> 00:19:27.539 will post this article. But then the second point that is often made is, 266 00:19:29.099 --> 00:19:33.380 okay, it's not necessarily that the mom will die, but what about 267 00:19:33.380 --> 00:19:38.130 the baby? Babies don't survive egg topic pregnancy. So why put the mother 268 00:19:38.329 --> 00:19:44.650 through risk for the death sentence of the baby? Exactly? How do you 269 00:19:44.730 --> 00:19:45.970 read? Can you talk a little bit of I can speak to that. 270 00:19:47.009 --> 00:19:49.849 Actually, I have a good friend, her name is recy and she was 271 00:19:49.890 --> 00:19:56.440 an ectopic pregnancy. Oh, and she was actually she implanted in her mother's 272 00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:00.160 Tube and right at the end, right before you know, the tube leads 273 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:03.920 to the to the uterus, and her mother wasn't clear, encourage to Aboord 274 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:07.710 and heavily pressured and she said no, I cannot do it, it is 275 00:20:07.710 --> 00:20:11.029 against my conscience, I cannot take the drugs, I cannot do the surgery. 276 00:20:11.269 --> 00:20:17.549 Wow, she waited and that baby migrated, which does happen. The 277 00:20:17.589 --> 00:20:21.430 placent of migrates during pregnancy. That baby migrated to the uterus and that is 278 00:20:21.500 --> 00:20:25.460 now my friend who's, you know, forty something years old and alive and 279 00:20:25.539 --> 00:20:29.099 well and has children and, you know, amazing things. God is done 280 00:20:29.140 --> 00:20:32.980 because her mom plays her trust in Jesus instead of the medical doctors. That 281 00:20:33.539 --> 00:20:37.329 such an awesome story and that and and that's what the research chose, is 282 00:20:37.410 --> 00:20:44.289 that the baby has an amazing ability to transplant itself somewhere else. And there 283 00:20:44.410 --> 00:20:48.970 there was one case described in this article of a baby that the tube actually 284 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:56.759 rup shirt. The MOM survived, I assume, through transfusion. The baby 285 00:20:56.039 --> 00:21:03.750 migrated into the abdomen and grew for nine months and was delivered healthy by Cesarean 286 00:21:03.829 --> 00:21:10.230 section, healthy full term child that grew in the abdomen. Yeah, there's 287 00:21:10.269 --> 00:21:12.190 been. There is one, at least one recorded case of a baby that 288 00:21:12.269 --> 00:21:15.269 grew the full nine months. Well, no, I'm not sure was the 289 00:21:15.309 --> 00:21:18.539 full nine months, but to the point of where they could take the baby 290 00:21:18.619 --> 00:21:22.259 out safely in the tube, right in the tube, and the tube did 291 00:21:22.339 --> 00:21:30.539 not rupture. So it kind of begs the question then of if, if 292 00:21:30.619 --> 00:21:37.609 the baby can transplant itself, why aren't Doctors Tread? We could make it 293 00:21:37.730 --> 00:21:45.730 to the moon. Why aren't we transplanting babies from the tube into the uter 294 00:21:45.930 --> 00:21:48.559 and you have to realize it's a culture of death and that life, that 295 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:52.960 little life, is not important, that life is expendable and that's not God's 296 00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:56.440 way. Yeah, absolutely, it's one of the reasons why we're having this 297 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:02.950 conversation is because we want this, we want to season this culture with the 298 00:22:03.069 --> 00:22:07.190 value of human life, because the more and more we are quote progress as 299 00:22:07.230 --> 00:22:11.630 a culture, it seems, the more and more we devalue human lives. 300 00:22:11.190 --> 00:22:17.059 So we've really not progressed, we've regressed. We've not gone the way that 301 00:22:17.140 --> 00:22:19.180 the Lord had wanted us to go in and medical community, as that's the 302 00:22:19.259 --> 00:22:22.900 same way I mean in this article, which you're probably going to touch on. 303 00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:27.700 There have been cases where doctors successfully, in what nineteen twenty something? 304 00:22:27.779 --> 00:22:33.970 Yeah, in nineteen seventeen, a doctor success. Nineteen seventeen, I mean 305 00:22:33.009 --> 00:22:40.769 that's a hundred years ago. A doctor successfully transplanted a baby from the Philippian 306 00:22:40.890 --> 00:22:45.440 tube to the uterus and that baby was born healthy and fine, I believe, 307 00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:51.200 by c section nine months later. And that a hundred years ago. 308 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:56.279 Why has and he thought this is the start of the whole new wave of 309 00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:00.750 how to deal with what was once a death sentence, they thought was a 310 00:23:00.910 --> 00:23:04.509 death sentence. So why didn't that happen? So what is what else is 311 00:23:04.589 --> 00:23:08.069 happening in like the nineteen twenties? WHO's coming on the scene, having right 312 00:23:08.150 --> 00:23:11.789 and then there's a guy by the name of Adolf Hitler Film, but also 313 00:23:11.829 --> 00:23:15.099 you have Margaret Singer exactly on the scene, and you really have this this 314 00:23:15.259 --> 00:23:18.940 chipping away of the value of human life. And that's why we, as 315 00:23:19.019 --> 00:23:22.539 those who are believers in Jesus, and because we're believers in Jesus, we 316 00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:26.099 believe in the value of human life, that we have to uphold this standard, 317 00:23:26.170 --> 00:23:30.450 that we can't just be Willy Nilly and understand again that there's differing opinions, 318 00:23:30.890 --> 00:23:34.730 and even within the pro life medical community, about a topic pregnancy and 319 00:23:34.849 --> 00:23:37.690 how you deal with that. Understand that, but it can't just be a 320 00:23:37.730 --> 00:23:41.359 light and kind of glib thing. Oh yeah, actopic pregnancy, then we've 321 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.759 got to do to these other methods where we know the baby ultimately has to 322 00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:51.119 be intentionally killed. Though, if we're going to hang on to this value 323 00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:53.920 of human life and uphold the standard of God, we need to be very 324 00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:59.230 careful in the way that we approach any subject that has to do with human 325 00:23:59.269 --> 00:24:02.589 life, even getting into the realm of like you know, and not the 326 00:24:02.630 --> 00:24:06.589 rabbit trail, but assisted suicide and stuff like that. There's even Christians that 327 00:24:06.670 --> 00:24:10.180 are toying with the idea that this might be a moral thing to allow people 328 00:24:10.619 --> 00:24:14.779 to be assisted in suicides. Again, it's a chipping away of the value 329 00:24:14.819 --> 00:24:17.740 of human life. And whereas you had a doctor one thousand nine hundred and 330 00:24:17.740 --> 00:24:22.740 seventeen that was willing to take the risk and to do this procedure and ultimately 331 00:24:22.859 --> 00:24:26.049 with good results, now you've got doctors now that are not even willing to 332 00:24:26.089 --> 00:24:30.529 consider what you're even talking about, which is expectant management, and so really 333 00:24:30.730 --> 00:24:33.410 is again, if we're going to uphold this standard, we need to stand 334 00:24:33.529 --> 00:24:37.849 firm, and that's why it's helpful to have articles like this and to have 335 00:24:37.009 --> 00:24:40.640 podcasts like this. They're encouraging you to do that and so that you can 336 00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:42.759 be well informed, because a lot of Christians have no clue about some of 337 00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:45.440 the stuff that we're talking about. Right. What did you face when, 338 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:49.559 when you're talking to your doctor's, your family, your friends, your husband 339 00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:55.630 and you're saying this is my decision, was there in overwhelming support for a 340 00:24:56.309 --> 00:25:00.589 decision to follow that approach, or was there still pressure? You're going to 341 00:25:00.710 --> 00:25:03.910 die, Les, we don't want you to die, we'd love you. 342 00:25:03.470 --> 00:25:08.940 I have such a supportive family and they're all followers of Jesus. So because 343 00:25:10.019 --> 00:25:14.339 of that, they supported me and affirming life and not killing my baby. 344 00:25:14.420 --> 00:25:17.779 Yeah, so thankfully I had that support, but had I not had that 345 00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:21.380 support, I still would have stood my ground and one what I knew I 346 00:25:21.450 --> 00:25:23.170 needed to do in God's eyes. So can you imagine? What do you 347 00:25:23.210 --> 00:25:27.769 think is happening to the MOM's in feeling out a present a very strong abortion 348 00:25:27.890 --> 00:25:32.450 minded culture? Yes, they're feeling a lot of pressure. So, yeah, 349 00:25:32.490 --> 00:25:34.170 we need to be there to support them and to educate them and things 350 00:25:34.210 --> 00:25:37.279 like this. Does that? Yeah, do we do? We know of 351 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:42.759 pro life doctors who are aware of expectant management and our supportive and we have 352 00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:45.839 some locally that are aware of that. And, yeah, who would institute 353 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.400 that? Are they hard to find? They are hard to find. Yeah, 354 00:25:49.109 --> 00:25:52.789 and you might like, like I said, they never gave me that 355 00:25:52.869 --> 00:25:55.750 option. I had to push back on the other two options that I was 356 00:25:55.829 --> 00:26:00.869 given in order to learn about expectant management. So if you're ever faced with 357 00:26:00.990 --> 00:26:03.500 this, guys, you need to to know that it is an option and 358 00:26:03.539 --> 00:26:08.220 you need to press your doctor for that, you know, for that option 359 00:26:08.299 --> 00:26:11.500 to be given to you. So at least information, yes, and then, 360 00:26:11.539 --> 00:26:14.980 if they don't give it, go to another doctor. Yeah, until 361 00:26:14.980 --> 00:26:18.769 you find someone that's one to support you and your conduction's right. I think 362 00:26:18.849 --> 00:26:22.170 one of the points here in any especially this, but any of the kind 363 00:26:22.210 --> 00:26:27.809 of high risk, difficult situations, and we train our sidewalk counselors in the 364 00:26:27.849 --> 00:26:32.920 subwalk missionaries that were bringing into Charlotte to deal with the hard cases, in 365 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:37.640 any of these hard cases, especially again the medical ones or, you know, 366 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.599 fetal diagnosis, like you know of Down Syndrome, or whatever. We're 367 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:45.880 always encouraging a second opinion. Yes, and with this especially, it's like 368 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:49.869 will get a second opinion because we've had situations where we've had moms that were 369 00:26:49.950 --> 00:26:55.390 sent by their ob doctor to the abortion clinic, and that happens a lot, 370 00:26:55.670 --> 00:26:59.750 guys. It happens a lot where doctors will send them mom to an 371 00:26:59.750 --> 00:27:02.460 abortion clinic because it's a lot cheaper, I mean, let's face it, 372 00:27:03.339 --> 00:27:04.940 to go to the hospital and have all that. You know, if even 373 00:27:04.940 --> 00:27:10.420 if they're having we've had doctor send a woman who they said was miscarrying to 374 00:27:10.500 --> 00:27:12.539 the abortion center rather than they're going to the hospital and have a DNC. 375 00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:17.849 She could have a DNC at the abortion clinic here for like four hundred dollars. 376 00:27:18.569 --> 00:27:21.369 And I remember one young lady she drove all the way from Virginia to 377 00:27:21.450 --> 00:27:25.170 come here was told by her doctor that she was miscarrying, her babies already 378 00:27:25.170 --> 00:27:27.250 dead. Thank God we got her on the mobile unit and she ended up 379 00:27:27.529 --> 00:27:32.599 seeing that her baby was actually alive and she left not having killed her child. 380 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.000 Doctors are wrong sometimes, doctors sometimes, I'm not saying all doctors or 381 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:41.119 even most doctors, some, some doctors have a genda's too, and we 382 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:45.950 need to be careful for that. And, you know, opening up the 383 00:27:45.990 --> 00:27:48.509 door to a second opinion it like it can't hurt right to be able to 384 00:27:48.549 --> 00:27:55.750 at least have a second opinion, because there is guilt associated with having abortions, 385 00:27:55.789 --> 00:27:57.980 whether or not our culture says that's true or not, it's a reality. 386 00:27:59.019 --> 00:28:03.740 Yeah, was your doctor concerned it all about a lawsuit? I think 387 00:28:03.819 --> 00:28:07.940 so. I think most doctors are right, because that's immediately why they're going 388 00:28:07.940 --> 00:28:10.259 to go for the quick facts. Let's get it done, that we're not 389 00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:12.690 facing the risks. I've expectant management, because there are risks involved. If 390 00:28:12.730 --> 00:28:17.130 something were to happen right, husband could turn around and see them right. 391 00:28:17.289 --> 00:28:21.450 So I always encourage people, if you're serious about this, and your doctors 392 00:28:21.490 --> 00:28:23.650 at all hesitant, assure them a lawsuit's not going to happen. Is something 393 00:28:23.690 --> 00:28:27.039 where to happen to me right, right, and in this article it talks 394 00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:34.680 about that. It is part of the medical I don't know if insurance policy 395 00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:41.119 whatever that a doctor, if he has two patients, he is not expected 396 00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:45.549 to give equal time and treatment to both patients. He's he's expected to do 397 00:28:45.750 --> 00:28:49.470 whatever he needs to do to prioritize to save the patient he's most likely to 398 00:28:49.549 --> 00:28:55.430 save if he's going to lose one tree and he is not suit. He 399 00:28:55.589 --> 00:29:00.099 is not suitabowl. I don't know what you know liable for maybe the the 400 00:29:00.180 --> 00:29:03.859 fact that one patient died because he had to attend to the needs of the 401 00:29:03.940 --> 00:29:08.460 other. So doctors are really looking at two patients when they're looking at a 402 00:29:08.900 --> 00:29:15.569 a mom with a PC topic pregnancy. But they're not really. Most doctors 403 00:29:15.609 --> 00:29:19.490 are not viewing it that way. They're looking at the MOM. is their 404 00:29:19.529 --> 00:29:26.119 patient. So what does that say about what they're viewing exactly? The the 405 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:32.480 baby as right and obviously not a person, not a person, which is 406 00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:37.200 why this is the personhood initiative, because this really does change the kind of 407 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:44.990 the whole scope of of the discussion exactly. So can you talk about some 408 00:29:45.190 --> 00:29:52.339 of the strengthening biblical you know, support that that you found during that time? 409 00:29:52.339 --> 00:29:56.700 I'm sure it was still a hard it was it was scary days or 410 00:29:56.740 --> 00:29:59.460 whatever, and frightening. Yes, it was scary, but I mean you 411 00:29:59.539 --> 00:30:02.339 just got to go back to scripture and ask yourself, what would God have 412 00:30:02.500 --> 00:30:04.460 me to do? Well, he's very clear. Thou shalt not kill there's 413 00:30:04.500 --> 00:30:08.890 no IFANS or butts. So that was the primary foundation for making the decision. 414 00:30:08.890 --> 00:30:12.130 IDEA. But some comforting things, you know that I found particularly. 415 00:30:12.329 --> 00:30:15.410 Psalm thousand, one hundred and fifteen says my time is in your hands. 416 00:30:17.049 --> 00:30:19.730 So the Lord has our days numbered and we have to trust in him that, 417 00:30:19.890 --> 00:30:25.000 because we are his child and because he aren't, days are already numbered. 418 00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:27.680 We're exactly where God would have is to be. Yeah, now, 419 00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:30.920 if we step outside of that and we commit murder, we allow someone to 420 00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:37.589 take that baby too early, then those days might be numbered less than they 421 00:30:37.630 --> 00:30:41.910 should have been. Right. So, why put yourself at risk? The 422 00:30:41.990 --> 00:30:44.430 safest place to be is in the middle of God's will. Yeah, so, 423 00:30:45.430 --> 00:30:49.579 and you weren't making a thoughtless or foolish decision either. You had scriptural 424 00:30:49.619 --> 00:30:56.259 support, but you also had researched. You knew some of what you could 425 00:30:56.299 --> 00:31:00.500 suggest to the doctor. Right, you are armed with knowledge, right arm, 426 00:31:00.579 --> 00:31:03.490 and that's so key to know, and that's why I like to speak 427 00:31:03.490 --> 00:31:07.450 about it. You know to others that they are armed at there ever, 428 00:31:07.690 --> 00:31:11.650 based with with something like this. Yeah, and you've had other high risk 429 00:31:11.730 --> 00:31:15.650 pregnancies having right right. Yeah, I do have. You've dealt with a 430 00:31:15.089 --> 00:31:19.680 lot. So you could speak knowledgeably about this whole exception of the life of 431 00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:23.680 a mother. Right, my life is of equal worth in God's eyes as 432 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:27.559 my baby's. So, yeah, I'mborn or born. So yeah, always 433 00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:32.319 let the Lord have control of that and he'll guide you. He'll you know, 434 00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:33.630 you're safest in the palm of his hand, right there in the middle 435 00:31:33.630 --> 00:31:40.630 of his well. So right, Amen. Yeah, we certainly practice what 436 00:31:40.710 --> 00:31:47.859 you preach and we should, and I think this conversation will help others to 437 00:31:48.140 --> 00:31:52.180 continue to just uphold the value of human life, because it can create some 438 00:31:52.420 --> 00:31:57.819 some dilemmas in our minds when we start to kind of chip away that value 439 00:31:57.859 --> 00:32:00.730 of human life and we start to leave exceptions. I mean, the reality 440 00:32:00.890 --> 00:32:05.609 is that Rovy Wade back in one thousand nine hundred and seventy three was based 441 00:32:05.690 --> 00:32:08.809 solely on the exceptions, the things that a lot of people that would say 442 00:32:08.809 --> 00:32:15.170 even that their pro life would leave his exceptions for abortions. But if it 443 00:32:15.210 --> 00:32:20.400 less than one percent, yeah, I'm all the reason for abortion, these 444 00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:22.799 these exceptions. Yeah, yeah, so, rape in sastright health of the 445 00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:30.029 mother. Right, those are the things that open the floodgates of ultimately nationwide 446 00:32:30.029 --> 00:32:36.150 child sacrifice at these abortion centers. And so, as pro lifers, as 447 00:32:36.230 --> 00:32:39.470 people that believe, as Christians that believe that human life has value, those 448 00:32:39.509 --> 00:32:44.460 exceptions can't be can't be something that we stand on, something that we allow. 449 00:32:44.500 --> 00:32:47.859 We have to uphold the standard of truth that God is in charge, 450 00:32:47.859 --> 00:32:52.259 he is the one that holds life and death in his hands and we as 451 00:32:52.259 --> 00:32:55.299 a society don't have a right to take the innocent lives of children, even 452 00:32:55.339 --> 00:33:01.490 if there's some extenuating circumstances. Just dealing quickly with the issue of rape, 453 00:33:02.009 --> 00:33:07.089 because that is probably the BIS biggest exception that we hear. You know, 454 00:33:07.490 --> 00:33:09.849 I was raped, so therefore it's okay. But a child who's WHO's the 455 00:33:09.930 --> 00:33:14.880 result of rape is no different than a child who's not. If I were 456 00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:16.559 to show you a baby in the womb that was the result of wet rape 457 00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:20.640 and a baby in the womb that was not, you would see no difference. 458 00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:23.480 And in the same way, a baby that's conceived and ends up and 459 00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:28.710 actopic pregnancy situation is no less valuable than a baby that's in the uterus. 460 00:33:28.750 --> 00:33:31.910 Your location does not determine your value. Yes, again, it's a difficult 461 00:33:31.950 --> 00:33:37.390 situation, but we need to approach that situation from a Biblical and God honoring 462 00:33:37.430 --> 00:33:43.339 perspective and I believe what you've shared is has been just that. Yeah, 463 00:33:43.660 --> 00:33:45.980 can I ask you, just because as he was talking, I was thinking 464 00:33:46.059 --> 00:33:52.420 back to your experience and you had just a couple of days and that before 465 00:33:52.460 --> 00:33:55.970 you knew that your child had died. But in in the case of a 466 00:33:57.089 --> 00:34:02.170 mom whose child is still growing in the tube, what do they tell you, 467 00:34:02.410 --> 00:34:05.250 because I'm sure they did tell you, what do you look for? 468 00:34:05.609 --> 00:34:10.079 What do you in your expectant management? What sorts of things are you to 469 00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:15.119 be aware of to protect yourself and to know when to call the doctor, 470 00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:19.440 when it rout, to go to the Yar whatever? Well, you're being 471 00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:22.599 pretty closely monitored. So they're taking your HCG levels every other day. If 472 00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:28.510 they're dropping, obviously the baby is in the process of dying, if or 473 00:34:28.670 --> 00:34:31.630 is already gone. If but if they're climbing, of course the baby's growing. 474 00:34:31.750 --> 00:34:35.070 That determines a lot of things right there as to what they'll tell you 475 00:34:35.110 --> 00:34:38.500 to look for. But bleeding would be a major thing. increase pain and 476 00:34:38.699 --> 00:34:43.940 cramping would be something to look forward to. Our look for and then they 477 00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:45.900 would instruct you to go to the emergency room at that point. So how 478 00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:50.619 much time do you have, say when these symptoms says they're accelerate? It 479 00:34:50.699 --> 00:34:53.610 depends at what, you know, how badly the tube has ruptured, because 480 00:34:53.610 --> 00:34:58.610 sometimes I can just be a little nick you know in the in the tube, 481 00:34:58.690 --> 00:35:00.530 or it can really, you know, be much more serious. Get, 482 00:35:00.650 --> 00:35:04.090 you know, some kind of a blood vessel or whatever, and that 483 00:35:04.130 --> 00:35:07.880 can be much more serious. So it kind of it's it really depends. 484 00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:10.800 Some ruptures are worse than others. Yeah, yeah, do they hospitalized mom? 485 00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:14.679 Sometimes they do keep them in the hospital for that expected. Yes, 486 00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:17.400 spent time? Yes, yes, especially if the baby's bigger. So yeah, 487 00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:22.070 before we wrap this up, and you may may or may not be 488 00:35:22.230 --> 00:35:28.429 able to share, but if you can, please share, maybe without giving 489 00:35:28.510 --> 00:35:35.309 specifics, a situation you've encountered with the mom that has head a nick topic 490 00:35:35.349 --> 00:35:40.539 pregnancy at the abortion center or somehow you were connected with that person and how 491 00:35:40.619 --> 00:35:45.699 you kind of talk them through and walk them through that that situation. Well, 492 00:35:45.739 --> 00:35:47.539 I'm always quick to point out, you know, if your doctor is 493 00:35:47.579 --> 00:35:52.329 told you you have a Tu bulleck topic pregnancy and you're coming to an ambulatory 494 00:35:52.369 --> 00:35:55.610 surgical center for an abortion. What are they going what procedure are they going 495 00:35:55.610 --> 00:36:00.010 to do on you and there? Normally they're telling me that they're coming for 496 00:36:00.449 --> 00:36:05.840 a surgical abortion. Well, that just sends up a bunch of red flags 497 00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:08.280 because of the babies outside of the uterus. You can't do a surgical abortion. 498 00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:12.639 Now if they're telling them to go there for a medical abortion, even 499 00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:16.239 that has some really iffy things because you're going home to labor and deliver that 500 00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:22.110 baby on your own. And so I'm pointing out these these cracks in their 501 00:36:22.510 --> 00:36:27.789 treatment plan to where that mom could end up harmed anyway. Yeah, doing 502 00:36:27.869 --> 00:36:30.550 the medical abortion or going through with a surgical abortion where that baby still growing 503 00:36:30.590 --> 00:36:34.219 in that tube and didn't you didn't solve anything they thought they were going to 504 00:36:34.260 --> 00:36:37.300 solve. So you really got to dig deep and see what they've been told 505 00:36:37.739 --> 00:36:40.340 where the location of the baby is, which is why it's always good to 506 00:36:40.340 --> 00:36:44.179 get a second opinion. Yeah, to make sure that baby is where they 507 00:36:44.179 --> 00:36:49.449 said it was. And then I just remind them that it's not within our 508 00:36:50.289 --> 00:36:52.369 control, or it's not been given to us by God to call whether or 509 00:36:52.409 --> 00:36:58.369 not this baby should be executed, and we are only supposed to support life 510 00:36:58.570 --> 00:37:00.920 and we need to find someone who's going to back us up, you know, 511 00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:06.199 and and and a line who has the treatment plan that aligns with God's. 512 00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:10.079 So I'm always just quick to get them into a second opinion to a 513 00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:14.960 good doctor who's going to determine what's best for them and what's best for that 514 00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:19.469 baby. Yeah, I mean it's certainly a situation where. I mean again, 515 00:37:19.510 --> 00:37:25.190 I've encountered these situations and it's never if it's a real situation, because 516 00:37:25.190 --> 00:37:28.550 sometimes I've been lied to. You. You know, you have to Vicky, 517 00:37:28.590 --> 00:37:30.099 I'm sure you have to. or now it's thinking old she was talking 518 00:37:30.179 --> 00:37:34.420 with her questions to them. I'm sure you've uncovered people that right. He 519 00:37:34.539 --> 00:37:38.019 thought this is just another excuse. Yeah, really, trying to make you 520 00:37:38.059 --> 00:37:42.059 feel bad for talking to them about going into the abortion center. But in 521 00:37:42.139 --> 00:37:45.010 the situations where I've encountered, and they've been very few and far between, 522 00:37:45.329 --> 00:37:49.570 where it's been legit and it's been a genuine situation, it's never that they're 523 00:37:49.570 --> 00:37:52.210 coming to me and talking to me and some proud and arrogant way they're already 524 00:37:52.289 --> 00:37:57.050 broken. Yeah, right, there's already a heaviness about them and I make 525 00:37:57.130 --> 00:38:00.719 sure just be very intentional with my language. I'm not coming across as condemning 526 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:06.800 or as judge or whatever we want to identify. And again, we train 527 00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:12.320 folks in all of these hard cases to have compassion, to identify with their 528 00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:15.150 struggle and all of that. But it really gets to the point where, 529 00:38:15.190 --> 00:38:17.909 when I'm talking to a mom going into an abortion center, a dad whose 530 00:38:17.949 --> 00:38:22.190 girlfriend or wife's going into the abortion center, is that you're going to a 531 00:38:22.230 --> 00:38:24.230 place of darkness, you're going into a place of death. Yeah, I 532 00:38:24.349 --> 00:38:28.900 know you probably wanted to keep this baby. That's often time the case and 533 00:38:29.019 --> 00:38:32.820 these situations I've encountered. And so you want to keep this child and you're 534 00:38:32.860 --> 00:38:36.500 broken hearted because you're not going to be able to. You don't think that 535 00:38:36.579 --> 00:38:37.980 you're going to be able to. You're going into a place full of people 536 00:38:38.260 --> 00:38:43.489 that don't want to keep their children. You're subjecting yourself to doctors. I 537 00:38:43.610 --> 00:38:45.730 mean, wow, if you go through the track record or some of these 538 00:38:45.769 --> 00:38:49.769 doctors. A matter of fact, one of the doctors here at the latrobe 539 00:38:49.769 --> 00:38:53.570 abortion center is actually responsible for the death of a woman. I don't know 540 00:38:53.570 --> 00:38:59.199 if you knew this, but he actually a woman came to his clinic and 541 00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:02.599 had a necktopic pregnancy. This is like two thousand and six and he gave 542 00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:07.679 her the abortion pill and then she came back because she was still pregnant. 543 00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:10.789 The abortion pill apparently didn't work and so he gave a surgical abortion to an 544 00:39:10.789 --> 00:39:14.909 empty uterus. He didn't do his due diligence to find out that she had 545 00:39:14.909 --> 00:39:17.469 a necktopic pregnancy. Well, because the abortion peop will never work on on 546 00:39:17.909 --> 00:39:22.230 an neck topic pregnancy. It's a different pill, correct somewhat. Yeah, 547 00:39:22.510 --> 00:39:25.420 so she ultimately, as far as the little bit of Digg in that we've 548 00:39:25.460 --> 00:39:29.699 done, her flipping to ruptured and she died. She bled to death. 549 00:39:30.699 --> 00:39:35.780 So you don't want abortionists, people, they get paid to kill people's children, 550 00:39:36.699 --> 00:39:40.010 to oversee your ectopic pregnancy. And if that's a genuine thing that you're 551 00:39:40.010 --> 00:39:45.570 dealing with or that a mom that as a sidewalk counselor that you're ministering to, 552 00:39:45.329 --> 00:39:49.050 then she needs to go to a real doctor, she needs to be 553 00:39:49.130 --> 00:39:52.559 overseen by a hospital or by a real doctor, not an abortion clinic, 554 00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:57.719 not an abortionist. And I will say if you've been referred to an abortion 555 00:39:57.800 --> 00:40:01.519 clinic by your doctor, because they tell you that that pregnancy is out of 556 00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:05.599 the uterus. Isn't a topic pregnancy. That should send up some warning flags 557 00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:07.510 to you will because, yes, no good doctor is going to do that 558 00:40:07.670 --> 00:40:12.110 in the case, I'm an ectopic pregnancy. Yes, yeah, exactly, 559 00:40:12.190 --> 00:40:15.909 sadly, I mean, the abortion center is probably the cheapest place for them 560 00:40:15.989 --> 00:40:22.179 to go and have that baby removed, right, as opposed to the hide 561 00:40:22.219 --> 00:40:25.099 it can't even be done in a topic circumstances. Right, right, kind 562 00:40:25.139 --> 00:40:28.900 of right. You gotta think. Why do they want me? Yeah, 563 00:40:28.940 --> 00:40:32.380 yeah, only if I guess, they they would refer. Only if I'm 564 00:40:32.380 --> 00:40:37.489 assuming on as a really terrible doctor. They are. Are they are referring? 565 00:40:37.849 --> 00:40:39.090 Correct me if I'm wrong. If the baby is so small, so 566 00:40:39.289 --> 00:40:45.849 young, that the medication can still, mean safely taken, is that might 567 00:40:45.889 --> 00:40:49.570 be yes, okay, yes, although you should still be under the care 568 00:40:49.610 --> 00:40:52.840 of a Doctor Shul later the method tracks say is given, and I don't 569 00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:55.159 even think they think that's the drug they use there anyway. So, yeah, 570 00:40:55.159 --> 00:41:00.559 yeah, all right. Well, we hope we gave you guys some 571 00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:04.670 information to chew want to think about, to pray about, and we hope 572 00:41:04.710 --> 00:41:07.750 you guys will dig into this article that we're going to post. It's called 573 00:41:07.869 --> 00:41:13.269 Ectopic personhood and it's from the personhood initiative. So if for some reason you 574 00:41:13.590 --> 00:41:16.429 guys don't see it in the show notes of this podcast, maybe your access 575 00:41:16.469 --> 00:41:22.340 in this podcast on some other platform than apple podcasts. Certainly you can just 576 00:41:22.579 --> 00:41:27.900 google search it and you'll find it. Share this podcast with folks that you 577 00:41:27.980 --> 00:41:30.659 know. Maybe it'll be a blessing to someone and reach out to us. 578 00:41:31.179 --> 00:41:35.250 You can reach out to me d parks at cities for lifecom. You reach 579 00:41:35.329 --> 00:41:37.929 out to her VCASI ORG at cities for lifecom. We'd love to hear from 580 00:41:37.929 --> 00:41:42.849 you guys. We'd love to hear some suggestions of topics that we can cover 581 00:41:43.610 --> 00:41:45.730 and we'd love to hear what you guys think about the podcast. Maybe some 582 00:41:45.849 --> 00:41:50.199 things we can improve. And just before wrap it up, I want to 583 00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:52.559 thank you again, Lisa, for coming. Can I appreciate you taking time 584 00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:57.760 away from your family to come and share and again, just ended off, 585 00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:00.670 we're not medical professionals, so we're not pretending to be. We don't play 586 00:42:01.030 --> 00:42:07.670 medical professionals on TV. This is not a medical professional podcast, but it 587 00:42:07.750 --> 00:42:09.590 is a gospel center pro life podcast and so we hope it was a blessing, 588 00:42:09.630 --> 00:42:17.179 you guess, and so until next time, God bless give me our 589 00:42:17.500 --> 00:42:30.690 love for love, give me our love for gratitude. I know it will 590 00:42:30.849 --> 00:42:38.329 cost me my life. Nothing's too precious in some you