Interview with A Post-abortive Sidewalk Counselor

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.799 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. S and me, 2 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:11.349 Lord, I am yours, I am yours. I'm welcome to the 3 00:00:11.429 --> 00:00:17.309 Gospel Center Pray Life Podcast, a podcast designed to equip, encourage and challenge 4 00:00:17.350 --> 00:00:20.910 you in pray life ministry, and always with a focus on the Gospel. 5 00:00:21.109 --> 00:00:32.060 Stay tuned. I felt show passish, touch your heart. Use Me. 6 00:00:36.049 --> 00:00:39.649 Welcome back to the Gospel Center pray life podcast. You appreciate you guys listening 7 00:00:39.770 --> 00:00:43.609 and tuning in to this podcast and, as always, would appreciate if you 8 00:00:43.609 --> 00:00:47.369 guys would share this episode of this podcast. I'm not going to labor long 9 00:00:47.490 --> 00:00:51.359 with the introduction because we have a special guest that's going to be sharing her 10 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:56.560 story, sharing her testimony, and so we think that this will be a 11 00:00:56.640 --> 00:00:59.960 blessing you guys, because we've gotten, you know, a lot of feedback 12 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:03.120 from testimonies and folks that have shared their testimonies on the podcast over the past 13 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:08.790 what two years, and it's been been all positive and people's life experiences and 14 00:01:11.069 --> 00:01:14.510 what the Lord has brought them through is a great blessing and encouragement. We 15 00:01:14.510 --> 00:01:18.819 see it throughout the whole scripture, right testimonies of how God uses people how 16 00:01:18.859 --> 00:01:23.060 God uses past experiences even and how God's a redeemer. So we're going to 17 00:01:23.099 --> 00:01:26.939 jump into that and hopefully well know so, knowing Jim just her heart to 18 00:01:26.019 --> 00:01:30.739 serve the Lord, that you guys are going to be encouraged and even challenged 19 00:01:30.900 --> 00:01:34.890 in your ministry, on the sidewalks or whatever capacity where you're operating and speaking 20 00:01:34.930 --> 00:01:40.010 for those who can't speak for themselves. But, Vicky, why don't you 21 00:01:40.129 --> 00:01:44.049 real quick? Just introduced Jin and then we'll give give jen the the floor 22 00:01:44.090 --> 00:01:48.040 and let her share her story and will be asking some questions throughout and stuff 23 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:51.400 like that, and just do let you guys know. Need to mention this. 24 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:55.000 We are recording remotely, doing the best we can with sound qualities, 25 00:01:55.079 --> 00:01:57.640 but if things are a little weird or Wonky, we apologize. We're doing 26 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:01.629 the best we can, with me here in Californi on the left coast and 27 00:02:01.790 --> 00:02:07.109 these ladies in the promised land on it. We're hope the audio will be 28 00:02:07.189 --> 00:02:09.469 great in the connections good, but if not, it's still going to be 29 00:02:09.509 --> 00:02:13.110 a blessing. It's going to be worth listening to, even if you have 30 00:02:13.270 --> 00:02:17.300 to listen past a little little weird audio glitches and whatnot. So, all 31 00:02:17.300 --> 00:02:21.099 right, we gain it, sure will. So so, yeah, so. 32 00:02:21.580 --> 00:02:24.500 So we are with Jen Erwin, and I've known you, what about 33 00:02:24.500 --> 00:02:29.539 a year, Jen, you've been you've been cheering like this almost two years. 34 00:02:29.819 --> 00:02:34.689 Almost two years. So void time flies, doesn't yeah. So. 35 00:02:35.169 --> 00:02:39.050 So Jen has been volunteering with us for about two years off and on Saturdays, 36 00:02:39.129 --> 00:02:46.319 since she is just a firebrand on fire for the Lord and you know, 37 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:52.439 the the councilors that work alongside her just continually tell me that she is. 38 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:59.189 She is not afraid to boldly speak the truth, but then is able 39 00:02:59.310 --> 00:03:02.750 to be very soft and compassionate with the women when they when they come over 40 00:03:02.909 --> 00:03:07.150 and talk with her as well. And and I think you'll find out maybe 41 00:03:07.150 --> 00:03:12.349 a little bit of why that is the case as as Gen tells us her 42 00:03:12.430 --> 00:03:15.340 story. But she has been a real blessing to us, not only as 43 00:03:15.340 --> 00:03:22.659 a volunteer out on the sidewalk, but she volunteered to post and perfect the 44 00:03:23.020 --> 00:03:29.050 articles that we write almost every week, and that means perfection comes when we're 45 00:03:29.050 --> 00:03:34.530 in the heavenly kingdom. Right, maybe heard of perfect at a worldly level, 46 00:03:36.169 --> 00:03:43.840 as best as they can be amen, but I am certainly technologically challenged 47 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:47.840 and what would take me hours to get those articles out. Jen does in 48 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:52.800 about five minutes, probably a little bit longer. I don't want to sell 49 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:54.949 her short, but so so. She's been a total blessing to us on 50 00:03:55.069 --> 00:04:00.669 so many levels. And she had asked a I don't know, about a 51 00:04:00.789 --> 00:04:03.270 month ago. She said, do you ever have guessed on your podcast? 52 00:04:03.349 --> 00:04:09.349 Which yes, indeed we do, and so that she had a story she 53 00:04:09.469 --> 00:04:13.939 really wanted to tell and she told us a little bit about that. She 54 00:04:14.060 --> 00:04:20.939 is a post aboard of woman and and has really quite a pretty dramatic testimony 55 00:04:21.139 --> 00:04:26.129 that I think will, like Daniel said, true, the be a blessing 56 00:04:26.250 --> 00:04:30.970 for us not to only hear the her background and and what happened in her 57 00:04:30.089 --> 00:04:36.889 past, but then where she's gone from there and and how the Lord redeemed, 58 00:04:36.930 --> 00:04:43.680 as he's so wonderfully Canon and will when we when we call upon him. 59 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:46.839 So so, Jen, you know, maybe just start just if you 60 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:51.040 would mind just kind of giving us a summary of your story. Sure, 61 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:55.230 sure. Well, first I want to say thank you so much for having 62 00:04:55.350 --> 00:05:00.069 me. This has been a labor of love really meeting you all and being 63 00:05:00.110 --> 00:05:05.069 out on sidewalk with so many wonderful God fearing men and women, but of 64 00:05:05.230 --> 00:05:11.860 course it also is a little scary putting yourself out there and but I really 65 00:05:11.899 --> 00:05:15.060 had to just pray and be mindful that. You know, the word of 66 00:05:15.180 --> 00:05:19.379 our testimony is Christ because Christ is the word right. It's not anything to 67 00:05:19.459 --> 00:05:26.569 do with us, no matter how dramatic or terrible our lives have been because 68 00:05:26.569 --> 00:05:29.730 of the choices that we've made, but it's really it points right back to 69 00:05:29.769 --> 00:05:34.610 him. Yes, so, yeah, so I think when I was fourteen 70 00:05:34.649 --> 00:05:40.399 years old, my family and I moved from the Midwest to North Carolina. 71 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:46.399 My mom was born and reared in this area and you know, as a 72 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:48.439 child, I'll leave him. I'll kind of shortly summarize, I guess, 73 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:54.589 or summarize that the childhood my I grew up as the oldest of three kids 74 00:05:55.230 --> 00:06:00.750 and my father was an extremely rigid Christian. He was a second lieutenant in 75 00:06:00.829 --> 00:06:08.300 the army and just approached the Gospel, or the Bible as it were, 76 00:06:09.339 --> 00:06:15.220 from the perspective of the law. So it was, you know, kind 77 00:06:15.220 --> 00:06:18.529 of like a you know, we saluted our father from the time I can 78 00:06:18.610 --> 00:06:23.370 remember, from you know, probably I've worked camouflage diverse for for all anybody 79 00:06:23.449 --> 00:06:30.209 to really know, but so it was just a very rigid approach to Christ 80 00:06:30.329 --> 00:06:36.720 and to God and more so, that God was someone to be feared and 81 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:42.319 you know, if we didn't get right with God, we were we were 82 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:46.519 going to be taken out like he would not deal with sin and and and 83 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:50.069 our lives might very well be cut short because of that. So not a 84 00:06:50.189 --> 00:06:55.230 lot of Gospel love, not a lot of compassion, not a lot of 85 00:06:55.550 --> 00:06:59.870 cross. I mean I heard nothing of the Cross and the salvation of of 86 00:06:59.990 --> 00:07:02.699 Christ ever in my whole childhood. It was just, you know, law, 87 00:07:02.699 --> 00:07:06.379 La Lah. And I'm not saying that the laws not applicable, nor 88 00:07:06.500 --> 00:07:12.819 am I saying does the law matter. It very much matters. But Christ 89 00:07:12.939 --> 00:07:15.250 is the Bible from beginning to end, right, so all that points to 90 00:07:15.329 --> 00:07:18.930 him. So when we were when I was fourteen, we moved to this 91 00:07:19.009 --> 00:07:25.930 area and then that was actually the first time that I tried drugs, fourteen 92 00:07:25.930 --> 00:07:28.769 years old, coming out of a youth group, believe it or not, 93 00:07:29.329 --> 00:07:33.639 and tried marijuana with another friend on the church property that we had. Happened 94 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:39.680 at that time? Yeah, and nothing really happened. And then I started 95 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:46.389 dating a guy and lost my virginity at sixteen. But we dated for about 96 00:07:46.389 --> 00:07:49.990 a year. Of course, he professed his undying love for me and and 97 00:07:50.509 --> 00:07:56.829 you know, the heart felt just the relationship was so wonderful and that young 98 00:07:56.990 --> 00:07:59.779 love, and then when we broke up, he broke up with me, 99 00:08:00.500 --> 00:08:07.939 I just kind of I just went completely off the rails and so, you 100 00:08:09.019 --> 00:08:15.490 know, it started little by little with drinking and marijuana and then progressed over 101 00:08:15.769 --> 00:08:20.170 a three year period that I was really into some hard stuff, almost four 102 00:08:20.170 --> 00:08:24.689 years, so the time I was about twenty, almost twenty one. Where 103 00:08:24.689 --> 00:08:28.319 you killing your parents aware of all of this or any of this at the 104 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:33.759 time? Well, you know, I think kids, especially teenagers, think 105 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:35.919 that they have the world by the tail and they think they can lie. 106 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:41.470 Well, so I thought that I had the wool pulled over their eyes. 107 00:08:41.669 --> 00:08:45.870 Yeah, but I don't think that I did. There were weekends that I 108 00:08:45.909 --> 00:08:50.789 would not come home and ironically, my mom actually drove up to this convenient 109 00:08:50.909 --> 00:08:56.220 store right down the street from our house and she saw a police officer sitting 110 00:08:56.220 --> 00:09:00.019 there, and this was probably two o'clock in the morning on one Saturday morning 111 00:09:00.019 --> 00:09:03.700 after I didn't come home that Friday night and she begged him to find me 112 00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:09.659 and she actually sat in the back of the police car begging this officer to 113 00:09:09.820 --> 00:09:13.330 help, to help her, and he said sorry, got to wait however 114 00:09:13.450 --> 00:09:18.090 long before we follow missing person's report. But she has eighteen, she can 115 00:09:18.450 --> 00:09:24.639 do what she wants. So that picture of my mother sitting in this police 116 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:28.200 car just still horrifies me to this day. But you know, the mom 117 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:31.840 almost being like a prisoner herself, you know, trying to find her daughter. 118 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:39.750 So but I do think that they found out, and very quickly. 119 00:09:39.830 --> 00:09:43.509 After all of that incident with the with the cops, I got into another 120 00:09:43.669 --> 00:09:48.710 relationship, through a friend of a friend, with a guy who was a 121 00:09:48.870 --> 00:09:56.539 little younger than I was, who was a self proclaimed Neo Nazi skinhead, 122 00:09:56.539 --> 00:10:05.779 and he got extremely angry with me one night for speaking to a friend at 123 00:10:05.820 --> 00:10:11.490 a party who was African American, and I suffered the consequences greatly. After 124 00:10:11.649 --> 00:10:16.450 it was over and went back to his house and he just beat me senselessly. 125 00:10:18.090 --> 00:10:22.120 I had a dislocated shoulder, some broken ribs and nice huge shiner and 126 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:26.360 you know, but the whole time I'm just thinking, you know, I 127 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:33.080 can save this guy, I can save him and and drawing from my childhood 128 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:37.789 experiences of Church and I was raised in the Church and, you know, 129 00:10:37.029 --> 00:10:41.629 just just wondering what I could do or say to get him to love me, 130 00:10:41.710 --> 00:10:48.870 to bring him out of this evil. And I remember sitting up in 131 00:10:48.269 --> 00:10:52.580 bed one night and just thinking to myself, is this is this? It 132 00:10:54.220 --> 00:11:01.500 is this my life, not even really being aware of God or the spirit, 133 00:11:01.820 --> 00:11:07.850 but but just trying to wrap my mind around why I was feeling differently 134 00:11:07.929 --> 00:11:11.529 all of a sudden. So I think God, you know, God brings 135 00:11:11.570 --> 00:11:16.490 you to certain places in your life and allows you literally to self destruct. 136 00:11:16.809 --> 00:11:20.519 He will allow you to selfdestrug before he reaches in. But even at that 137 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:26.559 point I had not I had not really grasped the concept of salvation or what 138 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:31.559 that even looked like for me. So you want me to continue? Well, 139 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:35.870 so it's some point. Obviously we're our focus is on, you know, 140 00:11:37.029 --> 00:11:41.429 the post aboard of experience, but this is a this is the backdrop 141 00:11:41.549 --> 00:11:43.950 for for everything that really led to that. So I assume at some point 142 00:11:45.149 --> 00:11:48.460 that pregnant. Yes, I did. Yeah, I got I actually got 143 00:11:48.539 --> 00:11:52.580 married and had a son who's now twenty. He'll be twenty eight next okay, 144 00:11:54.379 --> 00:11:58.700 but my husband wanted a divorce soon after and of course, as we 145 00:11:58.860 --> 00:12:03.570 separated, I quickly got into another relationship with a man and that is who 146 00:12:03.690 --> 00:12:09.129 I got pregnant by, and so it was subsequently that relationship that led to 147 00:12:11.049 --> 00:12:16.879 the decision to abort. He didn't want to be a father and I didn't 148 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:20.879 argue. I drove myself to the abortion clinic each and every time, three 149 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:24.919 times, and you know, I remember, especially having the experience now, 150 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:31.149 on the sidewalk. I remember there were no Christians there on the sidewalks then, 151 00:12:31.909 --> 00:12:35.830 you know, and Oh how I wish there would have been, right, 152 00:12:35.870 --> 00:12:39.190 yeah, but no one preaching the Gospel, no one telling me what 153 00:12:39.309 --> 00:12:43.549 I was doing was wrong. It was just sort of walk in, handle 154 00:12:43.590 --> 00:12:46.820 it and take care of what you needed to take care of se could get 155 00:12:46.899 --> 00:12:48.820 on with your life. Yeah, we were there any toughs of God as 156 00:12:48.899 --> 00:12:52.779 you're walking in, or any concern that maybe this was not what he would 157 00:12:52.820 --> 00:12:56.500 have you do? Did he enter the thought process at all? You know, 158 00:12:56.659 --> 00:13:01.169 Vicky, he really did not. I was a single mother at that 159 00:13:01.289 --> 00:13:03.090 time. I was working at a job that I wasn't making a lot of 160 00:13:03.169 --> 00:13:07.850 money. I was living in an apartment just trying to make ends meet. 161 00:13:07.529 --> 00:13:11.730 I didn't feel comfortable a hundred percent comfortable that my boyfriend at that time was 162 00:13:11.769 --> 00:13:15.759 committed that to me. So there was the fear of, you know, 163 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:18.159 losing him, knowing that this is what he wanted me to do, and 164 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:26.669 then I again just that overwhelming anxiety of rearing all these children by myself right 165 00:13:26.789 --> 00:13:31.870 and not knowing what to do with with that. Yeah, yeah, I 166 00:13:31.950 --> 00:13:35.190 want to pipe in real quick and just mentioned for those who are listening, 167 00:13:37.590 --> 00:13:39.629 to help you guys understand, like there's a lot of value and what you're 168 00:13:39.710 --> 00:13:45.779 hearing, because Jin is, you know, in her past, just like 169 00:13:45.940 --> 00:13:50.220 many of you, was of the mindset of the women that we see at 170 00:13:50.259 --> 00:13:54.460 the abortion centers, obviously walking in selfishness, but also we have to acknowledge 171 00:13:54.980 --> 00:14:00.009 that there were some deep hurts, there were some difficult situations, there were 172 00:14:00.090 --> 00:14:03.690 some stuff that, you know, the world would use to justify abortion. 173 00:14:03.730 --> 00:14:05.529 Sure, and so we have to, in the sense, meet these women, 174 00:14:05.929 --> 00:14:09.240 women like Jin in her past, like many of you, where they're 175 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:13.879 at. And there is that importance of the balance between grace and truth, 176 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:18.039 like we've of course, want to say abortion is murder, but we also 177 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:24.629 have to understand that there are some difficult experiences that these women are coming from 178 00:14:24.830 --> 00:14:28.950 and going back into and we got to acknowledge that and I think you sharing 179 00:14:28.990 --> 00:14:33.710 your story, Gin, can really help us just and to remind us that 180 00:14:33.830 --> 00:14:37.590 these these situations are not as cut and dry as a woman got pregnant, 181 00:14:37.590 --> 00:14:39.899 she wants to kill her baby. Right. Here's another nob just some stuff. 182 00:14:41.019 --> 00:14:43.620 No one just automatically wakes up one morning pregnant goes I'm going to have 183 00:14:43.659 --> 00:14:48.620 an abortion just because. Right, exactly right. Well, and the irony 184 00:14:48.700 --> 00:14:54.809 of part of this is my father taught genesis to seven. That was he 185 00:14:56.049 --> 00:14:58.570 believed that the baby, and this is the same argument that the that the 186 00:14:58.690 --> 00:15:03.450 pro abortion crowd uses, he believed that that baby was not a baby, 187 00:15:03.490 --> 00:15:07.559 based on Genesis to seven, which says then the Lord God formed the man 188 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:09.759 of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. 189 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:18.679 HMM. So there was absolutely no emotional connection to the Bible or any type 190 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:24.070 of that type of conviction, because I believed that a baby was not a 191 00:15:24.110 --> 00:15:28.350 baby until he or she took its first breath, based on the way. 192 00:15:28.509 --> 00:15:33.070 Now, now I also want a preference or follow up by saying I don't 193 00:15:33.110 --> 00:15:37.100 blame my father for the decisions that I made. Yeah, right. So, 194 00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:39.940 so let me just also say that, knowing that now, but but 195 00:15:39.419 --> 00:15:46.100 that was what he put into my heart from very early on. Yeah, 196 00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:50.769 yeah, so at the Times you're walking into that abortion center, if someone 197 00:15:50.889 --> 00:15:54.649 had said do you know God, how would you have answered that? Sure, 198 00:15:56.450 --> 00:15:58.730 yes, so you would have said yes, and we hear that right 199 00:15:58.250 --> 00:16:02.169 all the time, of the women walking in at least to hear in the 200 00:16:02.250 --> 00:16:06.840 Bible about the yes, they they consider themselves Christians. And indeed that was 201 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:11.360 what you would have said Jordan, as you're and you had three, three 202 00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:17.720 abortions, and so there's obviously a disconnect between so what what happened that then? 203 00:16:18.909 --> 00:16:22.710 Did you go merrily on your way and meet a wonderful man, or 204 00:16:22.110 --> 00:16:26.950 or did something start to change in your heart, in your feelings about what 205 00:16:27.190 --> 00:16:33.259 had transpired in that abortion center? Well, I did. After that relationship, 206 00:16:33.379 --> 00:16:37.779 of course, broke up. He cheated on me, you know, 207 00:16:38.059 --> 00:16:45.980 not surprisingly right, and I really kind of fell into just this deep sadness 208 00:16:45.139 --> 00:16:52.809 because not even maybe partially because of the failed relationship, but you know, 209 00:16:52.970 --> 00:17:00.809 the tide of abortions, guilt rises very high, right and it and it 210 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:08.079 threatens to engulf a woman's entire life. Yeah, and with shame and regret, 211 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:11.920 you know, and those feelings of unworthy in this. So I just 212 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:17.269 got to a place where I was carrying around so much shame and guilt and 213 00:17:17.470 --> 00:17:22.269 I just cried out to God and couldn't understand really why I was feeling all 214 00:17:22.349 --> 00:17:26.269 these things. Things will come to find out. It was just this culmination 215 00:17:26.869 --> 00:17:32.259 of the sin. So it was not directly, in your mind, yet 216 00:17:32.539 --> 00:17:37.420 related to the abortion. Yeah, and that was my experience as well. 217 00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:41.980 So I imagine that that is not an uncommon experience, that there was that 218 00:17:41.140 --> 00:17:47.250 same what you described, a rising tide of shame. Yeah, self, 219 00:17:47.410 --> 00:17:55.009 revulsion, even suicidal desire. But I never, I initially did not connect 220 00:17:55.009 --> 00:17:59.039 it with the abortion. But what happened to you? where, at some 221 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:03.200 point, did you then connect that with with the abortions themselves? Yeah, 222 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:07.799 I did. I think that because I had to write you. You really 223 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:14.750 have to. There is some self reflection someone. But the Lord revealed my 224 00:18:15.430 --> 00:18:22.230 wicked state to me and the things that I had done, and he absolutely 225 00:18:22.390 --> 00:18:26.910 brought it to the forefront. I was I was crushed. I was just 226 00:18:26.140 --> 00:18:32.299 crushed under the, like I said, the unworthiness and that regret begging the 227 00:18:32.420 --> 00:18:36.299 Lord, even at times just take me out. There's nothing that I can 228 00:18:36.420 --> 00:18:41.529 do for your kingdom. I am I am a piece of trash. Please 229 00:18:41.650 --> 00:18:44.609 just take me out. You know, I would beg him to kill me. 230 00:18:45.250 --> 00:18:48.089 Really. Yeah, that's where I was. But then he just opens 231 00:18:48.130 --> 00:18:53.690 up that light and you know, we have to seek Jesus, we have 232 00:18:53.890 --> 00:18:57.599 to we have to listen to his call. You know, Paul spoke about 233 00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:03.160 that in Second Corinthians twelve, about the thorn in the flesh. And why 234 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:10.390 does he give us that thorn? Spiritual burdens are often ordered by the Lord 235 00:19:10.630 --> 00:19:14.509 to cure spiritual pride, and I think that I walked around with just this 236 00:19:14.710 --> 00:19:18.990 pridefulness of God's going to forgive me. Right. We heard that also on 237 00:19:18.069 --> 00:19:21.309 the on the sidewalk. You know, if I go in here and do 238 00:19:21.509 --> 00:19:23.740 this, I know God and he's going to forgive me. So it's this, 239 00:19:25.460 --> 00:19:30.099 it's this boastfulness that we have within us that just keeps US moving forward 240 00:19:30.859 --> 00:19:37.059 more and more quickly towards destruction. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, 241 00:19:37.779 --> 00:19:40.890 but you said you sort of saw the light, he began to pull you 242 00:19:40.930 --> 00:19:45.809 out towards the light, and was there a specific event or was there a 243 00:19:45.890 --> 00:19:53.440 specific moment that you recall where all this crushes upon you and you you turn 244 00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:57.799 to him, or was it more of a process? I think there it 245 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:04.200 was both really so there wasn't this magical you know, I like I can't 246 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:10.150 remember the exact day. I did meet my husband, of course, and 247 00:20:10.509 --> 00:20:14.509 working through that with a man that I know loves me of course has and 248 00:20:14.750 --> 00:20:21.069 really has shown Christ in our marriage and and what loving someone is supposed to 249 00:20:21.069 --> 00:20:25.500 look like and the grace and the mercy. So he really is the model 250 00:20:25.779 --> 00:20:29.900 of Christ here on earth and I'm so blessed for that. But also being 251 00:20:29.940 --> 00:20:34.930 a single mother and looking at my own child really kind of brought that into 252 00:20:34.970 --> 00:20:41.250 the forefront of just the forgiveness and, like I said, the mercy that 253 00:20:41.690 --> 00:20:45.490 Christ gives us and and how he did give me the opportunity to be a 254 00:20:45.609 --> 00:20:52.559 mother, and then researching and reading the New Testament with all of the verses 255 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:59.119 that that speak to the value of human life. Yeah, that I had 256 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:03.599 never heard, that I had never read up until that point, and that 257 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:08.509 was in my late s. So several years after actually, probably even into 258 00:21:08.549 --> 00:21:14.470 my early s, the Lord just continually was revealed himself to me through his 259 00:21:14.589 --> 00:21:17.869 word, and that's what he does. Yeah, you know, I read 260 00:21:17.950 --> 00:21:21.180 something recently that if you want to hear what God has to tell you, 261 00:21:21.259 --> 00:21:23.059 you read your Bible and if you want to hear audibly what he has to 262 00:21:23.099 --> 00:21:33.609 tell, you read Your Bible out loud. Yeah, yeah, when when 263 00:21:33.650 --> 00:21:41.009 you were struggling and yours kind of starting to come back to God, to 264 00:21:41.210 --> 00:21:45.650 claw your way back to God, I was you mentioned the thorn in your 265 00:21:45.690 --> 00:21:51.480 side and and I'd kind of like you to to talk about that a little 266 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:55.640 bit more because if your experience is anything like mine, and I think it 267 00:21:56.119 --> 00:22:02.309 probably is in some ways, they're we know we're forgiven and we can feel 268 00:22:02.589 --> 00:22:11.589 the release and the joy of that forgiveness, but there are consequences of especially 269 00:22:11.630 --> 00:22:18.819 such deep sin. God does not always, in fact, I think maybe 270 00:22:19.059 --> 00:22:26.259 even often, remove the consequences, and that for me is that when you 271 00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:30.250 spoke about the thorn, that's, for me, what what I thought about, 272 00:22:30.410 --> 00:22:33.970 and it is something I do try to convey to the women that I 273 00:22:33.089 --> 00:22:40.690 work with on the sidewalk because yes, we can be forgiven if if we 274 00:22:41.210 --> 00:22:45.839 have a heart that truly repents and turns back to God. But that doesn't 275 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:51.160 mean that this is not life changing and Infu with some very, very negative 276 00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:55.119 consequences. So can you talk about that a little bit? Sure? Sure. 277 00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:59.109 So first, you know, when Paul spoke about that born in the 278 00:22:59.150 --> 00:23:03.470 flesh, he doesn't give the full meaning about that thorn. We don't know 279 00:23:03.230 --> 00:23:08.109 if it was some great trouble he was referencing or a great temptation. Maybe 280 00:23:08.269 --> 00:23:12.420 we don't we don't really know. But, like I said, those oftentimes 281 00:23:12.500 --> 00:23:18.339 spiritual battles are burdens rather our order to cure our spiritual pride. So you 282 00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:22.500 know, when we're afflicted with those thorns, we have to give ourselves to 283 00:23:22.660 --> 00:23:27.970 prayer, continue praying, even if answers aren't given immediately or if ever. 284 00:23:30.609 --> 00:23:34.930 And so when God doesn't take away that foreign I do think it's twofold. 285 00:23:36.009 --> 00:23:41.049 We he leaves it there to remind us where we've been, where or what 286 00:23:41.289 --> 00:23:45.400 we were before he got a hold of us, right before he brought us 287 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:51.799 to our knees and revealed that wickedness, wickedness to us. But if he 288 00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:57.269 gives grace enough for us right we have no reason to complain about what's left 289 00:23:57.309 --> 00:24:03.069 over. We have no I mean, who are we to complain about God's 290 00:24:03.109 --> 00:24:07.269 grace and mercy? And so I think some of that what's left over, 291 00:24:07.309 --> 00:24:15.619 right has been, has manifested itself in trust issues, marital trust issues. 292 00:24:15.220 --> 00:24:19.259 Like I said, you, you you're never allowed to forget. I think 293 00:24:19.299 --> 00:24:26.410 in some circumstances where where you were in the manor, which is a blessing 294 00:24:26.490 --> 00:24:30.450 and accurse, right, that the blessing is the I mean the blessing is 295 00:24:30.490 --> 00:24:34.289 yeah, you, you are filled with compassion and the ability to help others 296 00:24:34.410 --> 00:24:41.480 because you know, but because you know it's it's there is always that, 297 00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:48.160 you know. I often say I wish I had never done it. I 298 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:52.910 wish I'd never done all all the things that came as a result in my 299 00:24:52.069 --> 00:24:59.390 life that right now, I see where sin can lead, even though I'm 300 00:24:59.390 --> 00:25:03.150 forgiven. I love the Lord and he's using for good, he's using are 301 00:25:03.190 --> 00:25:08.180 paying for good, right, but but I still wish it had never happened. 302 00:25:08.539 --> 00:25:12.900 That is not it. What a different life I would have had in 303 00:25:14.099 --> 00:25:18.220 some ways, and I still to this day. A lot of times it 304 00:25:18.299 --> 00:25:21.220 happens on the sidewalk, but it happens other times. I still, to 305 00:25:21.339 --> 00:25:26.650 this day, grieve openly for those children. I do. I grieve, 306 00:25:26.730 --> 00:25:32.130 I weep over what I've done, and so the Lord. But, like 307 00:25:32.250 --> 00:25:34.759 I said, you know, continuing to seek him, to seek community, 308 00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:41.240 to seek ministry opportunities. Excuse me, you know, we have to realize 309 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:45.480 as Christians that there's freedom from the penalty of passin. There's freedom in that 310 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:49.430 and the gracest sufficient for you. Yeah, I want you to talk a 311 00:25:49.470 --> 00:25:55.069 little bit about just kind of moving forward and just encouraging those who are on 312 00:25:55.190 --> 00:26:00.910 the sidewalk, about how those past experiences passed, abortions and even, you 313 00:26:00.990 --> 00:26:03.619 know, the Lord using that, that pain and that regret and all of 314 00:26:03.700 --> 00:26:08.380 that to bring you to himself, but then ultimately put your feet on the 315 00:26:08.420 --> 00:26:11.940 sidewalks like, HMM, bit of blessing out there on the sidewalk. You've, 316 00:26:12.299 --> 00:26:15.539 of course, like all of us that are out there, is encounter 317 00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:18.170 some opposition and have experiences with people yelling at us and all that stuff. 318 00:26:18.210 --> 00:26:22.369 So that all that aside in your ministry to the women, how has that, 319 00:26:22.730 --> 00:26:26.809 how's your past, really helped to fuel that and then helped, I 320 00:26:26.849 --> 00:26:33.200 guess, craft and and define the way that you minister out on the sidewalk, 321 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:36.359 if that makes sense. HMM. Yeah. Well, you know, 322 00:26:36.519 --> 00:26:40.599 Paul wrote in Second Corinthians Seventeen, which I actually that is the verse that 323 00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:45.440 I have tattooed on my arm. Therefore, if any was, anyone is 324 00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:48.509 in Christ, he's a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, 325 00:26:48.509 --> 00:26:52.910 the new has come, and I think that, again, Ben and 326 00:26:53.150 --> 00:26:56.509 women on the sidewalk, we have to realize no matter what we've been through, 327 00:26:56.670 --> 00:27:02.059 in Christ we are not the sum of our past choice. Yes, 328 00:27:02.220 --> 00:27:07.099 right, no matter what, we are made beautiful and new by the work 329 00:27:07.339 --> 00:27:11.740 of the spirit within us, and that's what we have to continue to portray 330 00:27:11.900 --> 00:27:19.490 these women, and also realizing that these women that walk in there, accompanied 331 00:27:19.609 --> 00:27:25.769 or not, are all image bearers of God. Yeah, so, even 332 00:27:25.809 --> 00:27:30.400 if they claim atheism, they are still image bearers of God, and I 333 00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:37.599 believe that that is why there is such a pushback, because the creation will 334 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:41.839 magnify the creator or it will war against it, one or the other. 335 00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:45.549 There's IT'S A it's black and white. But but just as a building has 336 00:27:45.589 --> 00:27:48.109 a builder, you know, you probably heard. I know you're a fan 337 00:27:48.190 --> 00:27:52.829 of right comfort, Vickie, but just as the building has a builder, 338 00:27:52.069 --> 00:27:56.549 creation has a creator. Yeah, and we just have to continue to remind 339 00:27:56.750 --> 00:28:00.339 people that. They you know, they will give an account, but there 340 00:28:00.579 --> 00:28:07.940 is someone magnificent that can be trusted and that person's name is Jesus. Yeah, 341 00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:11.859 yeah, what kind of things you know, take yourself back to as 342 00:28:11.900 --> 00:28:15.049 you're walking into the the abortion center, knowing what you know now, what 343 00:28:15.170 --> 00:28:19.490 are some of the things that maybe you would call out that you think might 344 00:28:19.529 --> 00:28:25.130 have impacted you or that maybe you call out now, based on your experience, 345 00:28:25.170 --> 00:28:29.559 that you feel would will impact the women that are maybe in very similar 346 00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:33.680 situation as you found yourself in. Well, that is one of the first 347 00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:37.759 things, going back to what I just said, that that baby inside of 348 00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:41.160 you as an image bearer of God. Yeah, you are an image bearer 349 00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:44.869 of God. You know this is wrong because his law is written on your 350 00:28:45.029 --> 00:28:48.309 heart. You know that murder is wrong. And then, of course, 351 00:28:48.549 --> 00:28:55.029 the humanity of the baby, knowing that that child's heart started beating before the 352 00:28:55.150 --> 00:28:59.180 mother even knew she was pregnant, trying to get through to them that that 353 00:28:59.380 --> 00:29:04.420 baby is a human being and is alive inside of their womb, and also 354 00:29:04.980 --> 00:29:10.250 talking to them specifically about their role, trying to reach their heart so they 355 00:29:10.289 --> 00:29:15.569 can make that emotional connection with that child. You are the mother of that 356 00:29:15.769 --> 00:29:19.890 child and the fact is is that if they follow through with that abortion, 357 00:29:21.130 --> 00:29:26.359 they will be the mother of the dead child, and that's just, you 358 00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:30.160 know, it's heartwrenching for me because, well, and Vicky you, we've 359 00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:36.240 been in that situation. We know the repercussions of that. I have just 360 00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:40.789 as much want to get to that baby as I do to that Mama so 361 00:29:40.990 --> 00:29:45.069 she won't have to face when you have faced, you know, to bring 362 00:29:45.190 --> 00:29:49.349 her wrap her up. Listen, I asked my partner on the sidewalk a 363 00:29:49.390 --> 00:29:52.059 couple weeks ago, do you really think I would get in trouble if I 364 00:29:52.099 --> 00:29:55.859 would just bust through the doors and just say please, get out of those 365 00:29:56.460 --> 00:30:00.019 you don't want to do that. Probably would, but yeah, it's not 366 00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:03.940 what we usually recommend. No, but I know, I definitely know the 367 00:30:04.220 --> 00:30:10.049 the desire to do that because they don't know. They they have no idea. 368 00:30:10.089 --> 00:30:12.130 That's something that goes through my head. As they're walking in, I'm 369 00:30:12.210 --> 00:30:18.890 just thinking, you just have no clue, and all the the pro choice 370 00:30:18.970 --> 00:30:22.720 Soco, pro choice people dancing and almost like it's a big party. It's 371 00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:32.519 like you all have no idea how incredibly tragic this is, the this that 372 00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:37.269 is about to happen, not only to that port baby but to that woman. 373 00:30:37.829 --> 00:30:41.069 Yeah, yeah, well, and we often hear post a word of 374 00:30:41.150 --> 00:30:45.309 women. I think often here. You know, those those fiery words from 375 00:30:45.470 --> 00:30:51.140 the father and wise right the devil, those words condemnation, fear or in 376 00:30:51.460 --> 00:30:55.700 doubt and everything that he's got to do whatever he can to assault or faith 377 00:30:56.019 --> 00:31:00.220 and to make us feel like again. There's no way we could ever be 378 00:31:00.339 --> 00:31:06.049 forgiven for something like that. But at but the women just they really have 379 00:31:06.210 --> 00:31:08.289 no idea. And it would be also interesting to know how many of the 380 00:31:08.369 --> 00:31:11.849 pro boards have actually had abortions. I would be interested to know that. 381 00:31:12.130 --> 00:31:15.690 Yeah, I think a good number, especially of some of the older ones. 382 00:31:15.890 --> 00:31:19.119 But but I do want to say something. We've talked about this a 383 00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:26.680 lot on this podcast, Daniel, and I that the message of forgiveness is 384 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:30.720 absolutely critical and I think I'm hearing you saying how desperately you needed to hear 385 00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:41.309 that. But I always caution counselors about having the message of forgiveness the spoken 386 00:31:41.430 --> 00:31:47.700 as they're actively abortion minded, because they are using it. As I think 387 00:31:47.740 --> 00:31:51.980 you mentioned, I didn't know God, so I wasn't really using it, 388 00:31:52.220 --> 00:31:55.859 but so many of people, of the people who claim to know the Lord, 389 00:31:55.859 --> 00:32:01.569 are using the message of forgiveness as as the rationalization to aboard. So 390 00:32:02.250 --> 00:32:07.569 how do we strike that balance? Do you think about and where and when 391 00:32:07.250 --> 00:32:10.849 do you think it is? is they thinking again, back to your own 392 00:32:10.849 --> 00:32:16.920 experience and when you were able to truly absorb God's message of forgiveness? You 393 00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:23.119 know, I I always stood in opposition to the Lord because I never could 394 00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:29.839 get it right, anything right, with my earthly father. So I immediately 395 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.630 thought to myself, why even try? What? I'm going to worship this 396 00:32:32.789 --> 00:32:37.430 invisible god? He's just going to strike me down anyway. Who Cares? 397 00:32:37.589 --> 00:32:39.430 You know, I'm going to do what I want to do. I agree 398 00:32:39.470 --> 00:32:45.980 with that wholeheartedly. Not only do I not do that, I also don't 399 00:32:45.980 --> 00:32:52.420 tell them that God loves them. MMMM because if you read the scriptures, 400 00:32:52.180 --> 00:32:57.460 that's not true. God did not love me when I was his enemy. 401 00:32:58.140 --> 00:33:00.930 And God doesn't Send Sind Hell. He sends sinners to hell and he does 402 00:33:01.049 --> 00:33:04.769 do that. He will do that. Now, I won't get into the 403 00:33:04.809 --> 00:33:08.450 whole reformation on the sidewalk from calling out to the mother, but I think 404 00:33:08.529 --> 00:33:14.400 that when they if they come to you, which doesn't happen often, sadly, 405 00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:16.680 if they come to you, I think there is an opportunity, a 406 00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:23.480 real opportunity to speak with them about asking forgiveness and and what that looks like, 407 00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:28.829 what that needs to look like, because repentance does not just mean forgiveness. 408 00:33:29.269 --> 00:33:34.990 Repentance me means to turn away from so the majority of abortions happened because 409 00:33:35.269 --> 00:33:37.869 someone has slept with someone's husband and gotten pregnant and they're trying to hide it 410 00:33:38.269 --> 00:33:43.099 or some other version of sexual immorality. They have to leave the life of 411 00:33:43.220 --> 00:33:47.539 sexual immorality. They have to flee and turn the other direction and run to 412 00:33:47.619 --> 00:33:52.180 Christ. Yeah, but they but they have to understand what they're running to. 413 00:33:53.980 --> 00:33:59.410 Right here. They're running to the savior. That and then you explain 414 00:33:59.490 --> 00:34:02.089 the Gospel. You know, he died for you, he died for the 415 00:34:02.250 --> 00:34:07.730 sin of mankind, but he god so that we would not have to endure 416 00:34:07.849 --> 00:34:12.320 the wrath of God. He took that on the cross, the father's wrath. 417 00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:16.719 Otherwise, you know what's the black and white? Otherwise we would endure 418 00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:24.349 it and we would be eternally separated from him. Yeah, yeah, well, 419 00:34:24.389 --> 00:34:30.510 I I'm with you and in being very, very careful about the message 420 00:34:30.510 --> 00:34:34.110 of forgiveness, in the message of God's Love, even as as women are 421 00:34:34.230 --> 00:34:40.500 walking in because I think they need to understand the the humanity of the baby 422 00:34:40.739 --> 00:34:46.739 and the severity of the sin of that they are about to commit and they 423 00:34:47.019 --> 00:34:52.369 their heart certainly is not a repentant heart as as as they're walking in there. 424 00:34:53.369 --> 00:35:00.130 But had pipe in just real quick because what you just said, I 425 00:35:00.250 --> 00:35:02.650 think for a lot of people could could hit the ears pretty heavy and I 426 00:35:02.730 --> 00:35:09.400 believe we did a podcast about this, because they are those who completely would 427 00:35:09.400 --> 00:35:14.079 say you should not tell people that God loves them if they're not Christians and 428 00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:16.800 all of that. And there's a sense in which we kind of throw God 429 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:20.639 loves you around and you know, people say I preach the Gospel because it's 430 00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:23.670 told to my Jesus love them and and all of this. And you know, 431 00:35:24.750 --> 00:35:29.150 there is a sense now we look, of course, at the scriptures 432 00:35:29.190 --> 00:35:31.949 as our standard and this idea that we just throw around God loves you and 433 00:35:32.030 --> 00:35:36.380 has a wonderful plan for your life is somehow the message that people need to 434 00:35:36.460 --> 00:35:39.219 hear. It's a false notion, UN biblical notion. Well, of course 435 00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:43.860 there is a general sense in which God loves every human being. You know, 436 00:35:43.940 --> 00:35:46.539 Jesus makes his blood available to those who would repent and put their trust 437 00:35:46.619 --> 00:35:52.329 in Jesus out of a general love for humanity, of humanity, and so, 438 00:35:52.610 --> 00:35:54.489 you know, I just want to acknowledge that, but also just drill 439 00:35:54.570 --> 00:35:59.210 in particular to what you're talking about. Like we have to acknowledge this, 440 00:35:59.329 --> 00:36:05.400 this fact that when we're in sin, when we were in sin, we 441 00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:09.719 were enemies of God. The Bible says that you are at this with God, 442 00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:14.719 which means you are God enemies through your wicked works. That's sin. 443 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.670 Sin Actually matters to God, even though in our modern society and even in 444 00:36:19.789 --> 00:36:24.349 our modern Christianity, we like to shy away from talking about sin. Sin 445 00:36:24.550 --> 00:36:29.949 Is the reason why Jesus Christ, the son of God who never sinned, 446 00:36:30.230 --> 00:36:35.699 came to this earth and died a brutal death. That's that's the reason. 447 00:36:35.780 --> 00:36:37.139 Not Not so you could have a good life. Not so you could feel 448 00:36:37.260 --> 00:36:42.500 God's love for you. Not So. I mean those can be by products 449 00:36:42.579 --> 00:36:45.219 in a sense. You know you can feel God's love for you. Great 450 00:36:45.260 --> 00:36:47.690 Praise God, but that's not the that's not the end all to what Jesus 451 00:36:47.730 --> 00:36:52.250 accomplished on the Cross and his resurrection. The end all is that God might 452 00:36:52.250 --> 00:36:58.050 be glorified through your repentance and faith. In Jesus and you being unified with 453 00:36:58.170 --> 00:37:01.320 him. You know, that communion with God like that, that's that's the 454 00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:05.480 end all. So, you know, we could get into, and maybe 455 00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:09.239 you guys should refer back to our podcast, about God's love for people, 456 00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:13.239 God's love for center. Should we be telling them that Jesus loves them? 457 00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:16.789 I actually do tell the mom's, when I think it's appropriate, that God 458 00:37:16.909 --> 00:37:20.829 loves you and God loves your baby. I'll use that as a statement right. 459 00:37:21.070 --> 00:37:23.989 That linking, I think is critical, that God loves you, but 460 00:37:24.429 --> 00:37:29.590 he also loves that baby, and that's when I will use the message of 461 00:37:29.670 --> 00:37:34.579 God's love. Is Making sure they understand he loves that baby too. Yeah, 462 00:37:35.179 --> 00:37:38.099 yeah, yeah, and I think it's important. Again, like we 463 00:37:38.179 --> 00:37:43.300 do have our three talking points that we go through and we that's what we 464 00:37:43.380 --> 00:37:47.610 train people to do, really focusing on how much God loves them, because 465 00:37:47.650 --> 00:37:52.449 I actually do sort of shy away from just God loves you, is just 466 00:37:52.570 --> 00:37:54.929 a general statement, and try to make them feel warm and fuzzy inside, 467 00:37:55.530 --> 00:37:59.159 because what I don't want them to do, because what I have seen many 468 00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:02.880 women do is they latch on to God loves me, and therefore love as 469 00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:07.559 defined in our modern society is agreement. Right, that's right. That's right. 470 00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:10.599 You hate except sexuals. Yeah, acceptance. Right. You hate almost 471 00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:15.550 sexuals because you don't accept them. No, actually, I love them and 472 00:38:15.670 --> 00:38:17.670 I'm calling them to repentance. If I hated them, I would accept their 473 00:38:17.750 --> 00:38:21.670 sin and say that it's not a big deal, when actually they're headed for 474 00:38:21.789 --> 00:38:23.909 help. According right, what the Scripture says. Well, is that in 475 00:38:24.030 --> 00:38:28.659 balance and that truth that we've got a base. What we say, what 476 00:38:28.780 --> 00:38:31.619 we do, not on our feelings, are modern societies feelings, but the 477 00:38:31.780 --> 00:38:35.420 word of God. That's right. And then, you know, in the 478 00:38:35.500 --> 00:38:39.699 book of John and John Fifteen, when Jesus is talking about abide in me 479 00:38:39.860 --> 00:38:45.570 and I in you. Right, he declared his disciples clean, but they 480 00:38:45.650 --> 00:38:51.809 were not asked to abide in Jesus in order to get clean. They were 481 00:38:51.969 --> 00:38:58.079 enabled to abide because they were already clean. So the disciples once they were, 482 00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:01.480 once they were followers of Christ. That's what that's what all that means. 483 00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:05.920 And so, yeah, it's it can be a slippery slope. I 484 00:39:06.320 --> 00:39:10.269 don't the main point is to save those babies and to, you know, 485 00:39:10.670 --> 00:39:14.710 just to get through to the mother. The main point is actually that they 486 00:39:14.750 --> 00:39:20.869 will hear the Gospel and there have been so much fervent prayer that the that 487 00:39:21.110 --> 00:39:25.619 the Lord just tears the scales off these women. Yes, yeah, yeah, 488 00:39:25.619 --> 00:39:30.019 at the end of the day, with anything, the work is the 489 00:39:30.139 --> 00:39:34.260 Lord's. Like we want to do again according to what the Scripture says and 490 00:39:34.380 --> 00:39:37.929 not what modern society says and feels and all this. I'm going to do 491 00:39:38.050 --> 00:39:43.170 what the by bill says, but at the end of the day we are 492 00:39:43.409 --> 00:39:47.769 just those who plant seeds and water. We have feeds and we water seats. 493 00:39:47.809 --> 00:39:51.730 That's what that's what Paul said. We plant, we water. It's 494 00:39:51.809 --> 00:39:53.760 God that gives the increase. He's the one that pulls the scales off the 495 00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:58.800 eyes, and that's why one of our like main charges in this podcast for 496 00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:00.760 those who are going to be on the sidewalk. Yeah, we can give 497 00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:04.280 you some general principles and some best practices and DOS and don'ts and all that 498 00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:07.349 stuff, and all that stuff can be good, but at the end of 499 00:40:07.389 --> 00:40:09.590 the day you need to be walking with God, need to be in the 500 00:40:09.630 --> 00:40:13.590 scriptures, you need to be in prayer and you need to be walking with 501 00:40:13.630 --> 00:40:16.710 the Lord, because he's the one that tears the scales off the eyes. 502 00:40:16.789 --> 00:40:21.619 He's the one that saves these babies. He's the one that brings these MOMS 503 00:40:21.699 --> 00:40:23.699 to repentance, those that have had abortions or those who, you know, 504 00:40:23.980 --> 00:40:29.380 considering abortion. He's the he's the one that does all that heart change stuff. 505 00:40:29.739 --> 00:40:32.340 You're right now. Within that, of course we want to honor him 506 00:40:32.460 --> 00:40:36.730 the way that we present what we say, and I do think there's this 507 00:40:36.969 --> 00:40:40.449 balance because in this day and age, I think we know with modern Christianity 508 00:40:42.090 --> 00:40:45.289 there's this gravitation into the world's mentalities, in the world's way of talking and 509 00:40:45.489 --> 00:40:50.679 speaking, and this gravitation away from the Scripture and the way the scripture talks. 510 00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:55.320 But the scripture is very forthright and playing about sin and rebellion against God 511 00:40:55.719 --> 00:41:00.079 and the need for the rebel to repent and put their trust in Jesus. 512 00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:04.199 And we need to be truthful in that. But you can do that in 513 00:41:04.349 --> 00:41:07.869 a very gracious way, right. I mean, look at great comet, 514 00:41:07.989 --> 00:41:12.909 like you mentioned Jin like I love that guy, to preach that God is 515 00:41:12.989 --> 00:41:17.150 not shot away from talking about so what it sure doesn't right and God use 516 00:41:17.269 --> 00:41:22.139 it to bring people to the Lord and to even equip people like me and 517 00:41:22.139 --> 00:41:27.579 Vicky and yourself so, yeah, the Bible is the standard. That's right. 518 00:41:27.619 --> 00:41:31.219 Yeah, that's right. God's work will always be that standard. Yeah, 519 00:41:31.820 --> 00:41:37.409 and I love everything that you said, Daniel, about reminding US whose 520 00:41:37.489 --> 00:41:42.849 work it is and and that that is ultimately it is to glorify God and 521 00:41:42.929 --> 00:41:52.239 magnify his name. That that we're out there and and JEN works volunteers in 522 00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:57.199 the afternoon, which we do tend to see less, I guess, visible 523 00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:01.349 fruit. It's usually much quieter, you don't usually have as many interactions, 524 00:42:01.949 --> 00:42:07.070 interactions as in the morning, and we have traditionally had a really hard time 525 00:42:07.989 --> 00:42:14.309 finding and keeping afternoon volunteers. I think for exactly what you mentioned, Jen 526 00:42:14.550 --> 00:42:17.900 and then what Dan Daniel spoke about, is what our focus should be, 527 00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:25.260 because you your heart does break. If your focus is I really want to 528 00:42:25.300 --> 00:42:29.940 see baby saved and if I don't, I'm not going to be able to 529 00:42:30.010 --> 00:42:34.369 be out here, then you'll be yeah, you'll be quickly discouraged. But 530 00:42:34.409 --> 00:42:39.929 if your focus is in anything that Daniel described, then we can because we 531 00:42:40.050 --> 00:42:45.199 can all stand an obedience to him and want to give a voice to those 532 00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:49.199 children. Why should we glorify or why should we put a time of day? 533 00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:52.519 I'm a Gore, glorification of the Lord. Right. Yeah, well, 534 00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:55.800 God's only going to be magnified if I come out of nine to twelve, 535 00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:00.989 not from twelve to three, and only if it, only if I 536 00:43:00.150 --> 00:43:05.510 can, you know, tick off three babies saved and and five pieces of 537 00:43:05.630 --> 00:43:09.030 literature given out. All those things are wonderful. I'm not you know they 538 00:43:09.150 --> 00:43:15.900 they are, of course, but but it's just it's so important to remember 539 00:43:15.300 --> 00:43:20.019 why, why were there and who were serving? Right, exactly. Yeah, 540 00:43:20.179 --> 00:43:22.420 a man. Yeah, I don't know, Jen, if you have 541 00:43:22.579 --> 00:43:27.530 anything else you want to share, just from your story and just maybe experiences 542 00:43:27.570 --> 00:43:30.489 on the sidewalk in the last couple of minutes before we wrap this thing up. 543 00:43:30.530 --> 00:43:34.969 So I'm going to give you the the Florida share. Yeah, I 544 00:43:35.170 --> 00:43:42.199 would just continue to encourage sidewalks, sidewalk counselors, rather to be encouraged, 545 00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:47.760 to remain encouraged. The only way to do that is to stay in prayer 546 00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:52.719 and reading of the word of God. Yeah, prayer is the ultimate expression 547 00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:59.150 of our faith and we have to have faith in our mighty Lord that he's 548 00:43:59.230 --> 00:44:02.829 going to turn these, you know, hearts of stone that we see day 549 00:44:02.829 --> 00:44:06.670 after your day on the side walk into hearts of flesh that beat for him, 550 00:44:07.469 --> 00:44:10.139 because that's why all of us were created to glorify him. He doesn't 551 00:44:10.219 --> 00:44:16.460 need us for anything. Yeah, but he has given us this wonderful gift 552 00:44:16.739 --> 00:44:22.500 to go out to these abortion clinics and prey on the sidewalk and call out 553 00:44:22.500 --> 00:44:27.650 to these mothers and fathers, the ones who show up to preach his word. 554 00:44:27.889 --> 00:44:30.570 And you know, that's how it was done for me way back. 555 00:44:30.650 --> 00:44:34.690 Not on the not on the abortion clinics. Are Not from the abortion clinic 556 00:44:34.769 --> 00:44:37.960 sidewalk, but just hearing God's word, even as a young child, even 557 00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:42.239 though all these horrible things happened in my life, the things that I chose. 558 00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:45.800 You know, he comes back around. He came back around for me 559 00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:47.920 and lifted me out of the mire and gave me a heart disort it. 560 00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:52.760 Yeah, and it's important to remind it. There may be listeners who are 561 00:44:52.869 --> 00:44:54.789 post aboard, if I'm sure there's many. Sure, and and just to 562 00:44:54.909 --> 00:45:00.789 know that they're there is healing, not just by ministry in front of an 563 00:45:00.829 --> 00:45:05.630 abortion center, which actually I would recommend that you get healing prior to that, 564 00:45:06.389 --> 00:45:12.420 but but restored life with Stephanie Reinhard through love, Life Dot Org. 565 00:45:12.619 --> 00:45:19.019 You can all look look that up and there are many wonderful abortion recovery programs 566 00:45:19.099 --> 00:45:23.769 through churches and I do recommend that. I think it is important and and 567 00:45:24.010 --> 00:45:28.889 helpful. Yeah, sure, yeah, and I'll put that a link to 568 00:45:29.090 --> 00:45:31.769 restored life in the show notes for the podcast. For those who maybe have 569 00:45:31.809 --> 00:45:37.119 abortion in their past or you know or your minister into women on the sidewalk 570 00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:40.400 who have had an abortion and you want to point them obviously to the Lord. 571 00:45:40.840 --> 00:45:45.320 Think restored life as a Gospel Centered Ministry that helps talk really forth rightly 572 00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:50.469 about the issue of abortion and lead people to Jesus, not just some kind 573 00:45:50.469 --> 00:45:54.429 of psychobabble numb in their conscience, but like, ultimately Jesus is the one 574 00:45:54.469 --> 00:45:59.269 who takes care of the sin of abortion when we repent and put our trust 575 00:45:59.349 --> 00:46:02.750 in him. So, just for those who are listening, it's Love Life 576 00:46:02.789 --> 00:46:07.820 Dot Org, restored life, and you can go there and get information. 577 00:46:07.980 --> 00:46:10.900 You can connect with Stephanie there. But with that, ladies I will I 578 00:46:12.460 --> 00:46:14.860 wrap this thing up, unless, jen you got something else you want to 579 00:46:14.940 --> 00:46:16.659 you want to I was just going to say one thing just about the importance 580 00:46:16.699 --> 00:46:22.449 of community. To seek the community you know in James that talks about confessing 581 00:46:22.489 --> 00:46:25.690 your sins to one another and I think that women, post aboarded women can 582 00:46:25.849 --> 00:46:30.769 share without judgment, yeah, some of the things that they've gone through and 583 00:46:31.010 --> 00:46:36.400 just have a community of women to pray with one another. Of course abortion 584 00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:38.960 is a stigma, of course it's horrible, of course it's a sin. 585 00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:43.960 However, when the Lord, like I said, changes your life, we 586 00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:47.389 need to rally alongside each other and hold each other up. Yeah, Amen. 587 00:46:47.750 --> 00:46:52.949 First John Chapter One. Sorry find myself quote in this scripture so much. 588 00:46:52.949 --> 00:46:54.750 First John Chapter one versus five, I think it's five through ten. 589 00:46:55.349 --> 00:46:59.070 He says this is the message we've heard from him, and declare to you 590 00:46:59.190 --> 00:47:01.739 that God is light and m he in him is no darkness at all. 591 00:47:02.260 --> 00:47:05.739 So we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness, we 592 00:47:05.860 --> 00:47:07.500 lie to not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, 593 00:47:07.579 --> 00:47:09.579 as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the 594 00:47:09.619 --> 00:47:14.900 blood of Jesus Christ, his son, cleanses us from all sin. He 595 00:47:14.940 --> 00:47:16.849 gives on to say if we say we have no sin, we make him 596 00:47:16.849 --> 00:47:22.489 a liar, but if we can fast and forsake our sins, that God 597 00:47:22.530 --> 00:47:25.449 will forgive our sins. So bringing our sin to the light, the sin 598 00:47:25.570 --> 00:47:30.440 of abortion, like you're talking about, in that setting of other believers like 599 00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:32.679 man or what I really share with other people that I've had an abortion or 600 00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:37.519 had three abortions or FIB aboard and whatever. Well, if you want that 601 00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:40.239 sin to like they say, sunlight's the best disinfect and if you want that 602 00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:44.199 sin to be taken care of and if you want the guilt in the stuff 603 00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:46.269 that you feel in your heart to be taken care of, bring it to 604 00:47:46.309 --> 00:47:50.429 the light, of course to the light of who Jesus is, but also 605 00:47:50.590 --> 00:47:54.510 to others, and just acknowledge it and let God use your past. And 606 00:47:54.750 --> 00:47:59.059 like the Apostle Paul, he doesn't shy away from you see him sharing his 607 00:47:59.179 --> 00:48:01.260 testimony time after time in the book of acts and even through some of the 608 00:48:01.300 --> 00:48:07.940 epistles, about how he had even persecuted Christians. He wasn't chief, yeah, 609 00:48:07.099 --> 00:48:09.340 and so it was the chief of theirs. In a sense, he 610 00:48:09.500 --> 00:48:13.610 was ashamed for his sin. You should be ashamed for your sin, right, 611 00:48:14.130 --> 00:48:16.489 but not ashames in such a way where you're ashamed to share what God 612 00:48:16.530 --> 00:48:20.929 has brought you from. Like our our our hope is not in whether we 613 00:48:21.050 --> 00:48:23.809 feel shame or not. Our Hope is in Jesus Christ, the one who 614 00:48:23.889 --> 00:48:29.960 removes shame. So bringing that stuff to the light can remove the shame and 615 00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:34.800 can remove the stigma and remove even some of the the pain, mental anguish 616 00:48:34.840 --> 00:48:38.679 and things like that that folks that are have abortions in their past. That's 617 00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:43.829 that's women especially, but also men. That's right, and involved in abortion. 618 00:48:43.869 --> 00:48:46.190 There's guilt. They're absolutely you know, I talk to a young lady, 619 00:48:46.190 --> 00:48:47.909 and I will wrap up with this, not a young lady, and 620 00:48:47.989 --> 00:48:52.590 older lady actually, just yesterday, and she was sharing with me the guilt 621 00:48:52.670 --> 00:48:58.619 that she still carried. This lady was probably seventy to seventy five years old 622 00:48:59.380 --> 00:49:04.340 and she had a friend that came to her thirty, gosh, maybe forty 623 00:49:04.420 --> 00:49:09.409 years ago that was considering an abortion and she's she didn't encourage her friend to 624 00:49:09.449 --> 00:49:13.650 have the abortion. She just didn't speak up and tell her friend not to 625 00:49:13.769 --> 00:49:17.650 have the abortion and she said she still feels guilty every day for the fact 626 00:49:17.650 --> 00:49:21.730 that she didn't speak to her friend and tell her not to have the abortion. 627 00:49:21.769 --> 00:49:24.800 Yeah, it's like this, this thing called abortion. It has its 628 00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:30.119 ugly tentacles in every area that it can. The Devil wanting to bring this 629 00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:35.800 condemnation and sense that you can never be forgiven on people and keep them in 630 00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:37.710 bondage, and so we need to bring that stuff to the light. Jim, 631 00:49:38.070 --> 00:49:42.909 I appreciate you doing this. It's not easy to share this stuff. 632 00:49:42.989 --> 00:49:45.469 It's not easy to just be open and open book like you have been, 633 00:49:45.949 --> 00:49:50.309 but it is a blessing. It's going to bless other people. It's going 634 00:49:50.349 --> 00:49:52.099 to equip other people who have abortion in their past. Is going to quip 635 00:49:52.139 --> 00:49:55.460 other people who don't but but want to minister to people that do or people 636 00:49:55.460 --> 00:49:59.780 that are going to have abortions. And you know people are going to be 637 00:50:00.380 --> 00:50:01.980 who have abortion of their paths. I haven't shared it, set free they're 638 00:50:01.980 --> 00:50:05.860 going to bring into the light, because then the example that you've set, 639 00:50:06.139 --> 00:50:09.250 yees. So I appreciate you sharing and with that I'm going to wrap this 640 00:50:09.409 --> 00:50:13.809 thing up. Guys, we appreciate all those who are listening and we'd appreciate 641 00:50:13.889 --> 00:50:15.650 if you would share this podcast with others. Let it be a blessing to 642 00:50:15.769 --> 00:50:19.730 them also. We appreciate if you would reach out to us if you have 643 00:50:19.849 --> 00:50:23.400 a future episode, subjects, titles, things you'd like for us to cover, 644 00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:28.000 if you've got questions about this podcast or other episodes, we love to 645 00:50:28.039 --> 00:50:30.599 answer those questions as best we can. So you can reach out to me 646 00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:35.320 at Danielt Love Life Dot Org. You reach Vicky Vicky at love life dot 647 00:50:35.360 --> 00:50:42.829 work. And until next time, God bless God that show. Give me 648 00:50:43.670 --> 00:50:55.059 our love for love. Give me our love for gratitude. I know it 649 00:50:55.179 --> 00:51:04.969 will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious. And some you