Interview with a High Risk Doctor

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:06.400 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me. Lord, 2 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:10.269 Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. This episode we're going to 3 00:00:10.310 --> 00:00:13.949 talk with the retired Doctor Edith, who used to deal with high risk mothers 4 00:00:14.029 --> 00:00:17.269 in her practice. She's going to give us some tips and wisdom will how 5 00:00:17.309 --> 00:00:23.699 to speak with high risk mothers at the abortion center. Stay tuned. I 6 00:00:24.019 --> 00:00:37.170 felt show Passish, touch your use me. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro 7 00:00:37.289 --> 00:00:41.210 life podcast. Appreciate you guys tuning in and we appreciate, as always, 8 00:00:41.689 --> 00:00:46.049 if you guys would share this podcast and even reach out to us. We'll 9 00:00:46.090 --> 00:00:50.240 share our contact info at the end of this podcast with ideas for other episodes. 10 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:52.840 We just want to be a blessing to you guys that are listening. 11 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:56.439 We want to encourage you to stand for life. Will encourage you to stand 12 00:00:56.479 --> 00:01:00.719 for life at the abortion centers, especially in your city. It's a difficult 13 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:04.150 ministry, but it's a necessary ministry and lives are saved. We just came 14 00:01:04.189 --> 00:01:07.950 from the abortion center, yeah, with some pretty difficult opposition today. It 15 00:01:08.109 --> 00:01:12.230 was a rough day, yeah, and we often encounter opposition for Poe and 16 00:01:12.269 --> 00:01:18.349 pro abortion people and that's to be expected. But five babies were safe. 17 00:01:18.390 --> 00:01:22.379 Five babies to went went for an ultrasound and five five babies. I again 18 00:01:22.420 --> 00:01:26.739 when for an ultrasound on one on board our help pregnancy center mobile ultra sound, 19 00:01:26.780 --> 00:01:29.140 your net. Yeah, it was awesome. Yeah, awesome, pretty 20 00:01:29.180 --> 00:01:32.260 amazing what the Lord can do in spite of what the enemy tries to do. 21 00:01:32.459 --> 00:01:34.890 That's right. So we would encourage you guys that are listening to go 22 00:01:34.969 --> 00:01:38.129 out to be a faithful witness out there on the sidewalks. Would encourage you 23 00:01:38.129 --> 00:01:42.090 guys to go to our sidewalks for life website to get equipped and even reach 24 00:01:42.129 --> 00:01:46.810 out and we can train you guys to become a sidewalk missionary, kind of 25 00:01:46.810 --> 00:01:49.959 like what we talked about a couple of months ago, becoming a sidewalk missionary, 26 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:53.879 a regular presence and raising up an army of people in your city to 27 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:56.640 be out there at the abortion centers. So we encourage you guys with that. 28 00:01:56.680 --> 00:01:59.599 Again, we'll share our contact info at the end of this podcast to 29 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:02.109 give you guys an opportunity to reach out to us. But we want to 30 00:02:02.109 --> 00:02:07.629 jump into our subject and we have on zoom, so this is a zoom 31 00:02:07.870 --> 00:02:09.509 call that we're doing. So if you hear any lag or any kind of 32 00:02:09.750 --> 00:02:14.990 weird noises, it's either zoom or is the fact that we're recording on Vicki's 33 00:02:15.030 --> 00:02:17.900 back porch. So if you hear a gnawing sound, that's a that's probably 34 00:02:17.900 --> 00:02:21.659 a squirrel chewing a nut not far from where we are. If you hear 35 00:02:21.740 --> 00:02:25.780 sirens, we're in Charlotte and crime is pretty pretty tough around these parts. 36 00:02:25.900 --> 00:02:30.409 Now. Vicki lives in a pretty good neighborhood, but we're hearing some sirens 37 00:02:30.449 --> 00:02:32.770 earlier. So if you hear some stuff you don't normally hear because we're recording 38 00:02:32.889 --> 00:02:38.530 in a abnormal location because we're having some work done on our office to expand 39 00:02:38.650 --> 00:02:42.969 things. Of God's doing a lot. But let's jump into our subject and 40 00:02:43.050 --> 00:02:46.800 let's introduce our guest. Yeah, so she edith is is one of our 41 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:54.240 volunteers and she just has such a wonderful background that is so useful in our 42 00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:59.830 work on the sidewalk. So I'm going to introduce edith and and maybe edith, 43 00:02:59.909 --> 00:03:01.909 you could just tell us about yourself, who you are, give us 44 00:03:01.949 --> 00:03:07.990 a little of your background, your testimony and and just whatever you feel it 45 00:03:08.270 --> 00:03:12.629 in Justin way of introduction. People ought to know about you. Okay. 46 00:03:12.830 --> 00:03:15.939 Well, thank you so much for having me, Vicky and Daniel, and 47 00:03:16.139 --> 00:03:21.979 it's just to be a such a blessing to be a part of this team. 48 00:03:22.020 --> 00:03:28.050 I joined as a volunteer back in the fall and it has been an 49 00:03:28.169 --> 00:03:34.889 incredible blessing and Vicky and Daniel asked me to share with you some of my 50 00:03:35.050 --> 00:03:39.449 background and interest in the ministry, and so I'll just jump in. I 51 00:03:39.770 --> 00:03:46.439 grew up in a Christian home and as a teenager, went forward at a 52 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:53.400 billy Graham Crusade to express publicly my faith in Jesus Christ. My faith was 53 00:03:53.560 --> 00:04:00.030 solidisipied through Bible Study and in my young adult years I felt called as a 54 00:04:00.150 --> 00:04:05.789 teenager to go into the practice of medicine and specifically to go on the foreign 55 00:04:05.830 --> 00:04:13.300 mission field. Our Church had a a mission clinic in Mexico and I made 56 00:04:13.379 --> 00:04:16.660 very specific plans to go that way. But God had other plans because as 57 00:04:16.779 --> 00:04:23.620 I finished medical school that clinic closed and I did meet my husband and medical 58 00:04:23.660 --> 00:04:29.730 school. He and I did our medical training in Ohio and then in Boston 59 00:04:29.930 --> 00:04:35.129 and then we were called to Charlotte to work in in medicine here in Charlotte 60 00:04:35.329 --> 00:04:44.160 in medical school because I was training during a time in which there was not 61 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:48.480 abortion, was not legalized until toward the end of my medical training. There 62 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:56.870 was not really an issue related to being pro life or pro choice, and 63 00:04:56.990 --> 00:05:00.189 though I would consider myself pro life, I did not have an issue in 64 00:05:00.310 --> 00:05:04.069 terms of getting a job or that sort of thing. So there was really 65 00:05:04.110 --> 00:05:09.660 no no issue there. Some of those things did come later in my career, 66 00:05:10.779 --> 00:05:15.420 but in my training I began to take care of high risk pregnancies because 67 00:05:15.779 --> 00:05:23.250 my specialty was in internal medicine and then subspecializing in into chronology and diabetes, 68 00:05:23.769 --> 00:05:28.889 and specifically my research and my fellowship was in diabetes. And when I came 69 00:05:28.970 --> 00:05:33.329 to Charlotte I began to develop practice in the high risk pregnancy area and worked 70 00:05:33.490 --> 00:05:41.360 in the academic area in Atrium health with caring for women with diabetes and pregnancy, 71 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:45.319 and we took care of over a thousand women annually in that area, 72 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:54.790 and so I began to realize that that was going to be a field in 73 00:05:54.910 --> 00:05:59.949 which God was going to use me to stand for life, because the majority 74 00:06:00.269 --> 00:06:04.459 of people I was specialist, that I was working with were much more liberal, 75 00:06:04.899 --> 00:06:09.540 more pro choice. That's not to say that there aren't specialists who are 76 00:06:09.579 --> 00:06:13.060 very prolife, but most of the people I was working with were pro choice, 77 00:06:13.540 --> 00:06:17.220 and so it was God put me there in to stand in the gap. 78 00:06:17.569 --> 00:06:24.089 Okay, and just just to mention this. So you were a physician 79 00:06:24.209 --> 00:06:30.050 that worked with high risk MOMS and certainly we have encountered as one of the 80 00:06:30.649 --> 00:06:36.160 frequently stated reasons why people are there at the abortion center to a board is 81 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:42.319 because either the mother is high risk, sometimes a medical issue because of that 82 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:47.910 with the baby, but quite frequently we hear that the mother will die if 83 00:06:48.750 --> 00:06:54.230 they don't kill the baby. And so you, you ended up in a 84 00:06:54.350 --> 00:07:00.629 position where you were actually than counseling women to whether that was true or not 85 00:07:00.910 --> 00:07:05.860 right, whether they their high risk situation was one that was a death sentence 86 00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:11.740 if they did not abort their child or not. Is that correct? Correct, 87 00:07:12.100 --> 00:07:15.730 and I do want to reiterate that in a high risk pregnancy you have 88 00:07:16.089 --> 00:07:21.129 those two classifications. You have the high risk mother, you have the high 89 00:07:21.129 --> 00:07:28.009 risk maternal condition and then you have a high risk condition for the baby, 90 00:07:28.290 --> 00:07:31.959 right in which there are dangers there. And the truth of the matter is 91 00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:40.439 that there are very, very rare circumstances in which a pregnancy would present itself 92 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:44.470 as being, you know, a risk of death to the mother. So 93 00:07:44.829 --> 00:07:49.189 I think that, in terms of speaking with women, I think that something 94 00:07:49.310 --> 00:07:55.629 that could be very, very strongly stated, even by non medical person, 95 00:07:56.189 --> 00:08:00.819 to that to to the abortion minded woman, that it is a very rare 96 00:08:00.939 --> 00:08:05.980 circumstance in when which a woman's life is in danger to carry a pregnancy. 97 00:08:05.220 --> 00:08:09.620 Now, did you find that other doctors, when they would have high risk 98 00:08:09.740 --> 00:08:18.129 MOMS, would just kind of automatically recommend abortion as the easier of the options 99 00:08:18.170 --> 00:08:20.970 in front of them? I think that's the case in my in my opinion, 100 00:08:22.209 --> 00:08:28.120 that is generally the case. They usually rationalize that in those conditions in 101 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:33.879 which women had medical conditions that would make for a very complicated pregnancy, right 102 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:41.080 other words, it would take more work, more resources, etc. To 103 00:08:41.789 --> 00:08:50.990 to continue the pregnancy and complete the pregnancy. The option for abortion was pressed 104 00:08:50.230 --> 00:08:56.659 upon, not only presented but pressed. Oh Really? Yes, so there 105 00:08:56.779 --> 00:09:01.059 was some because they're the doctor. The woman doesn't know. So there was 106 00:09:01.139 --> 00:09:05.940 almost, I don't want to use quite the word coercion, but something close 107 00:09:07.059 --> 00:09:11.730 to that, that that was the safest route. Because I'm yes, there 108 00:09:11.850 --> 00:09:16.889 was a continuum of that, but I would say that in it. My 109 00:09:16.049 --> 00:09:22.289 experience there was everything from the high risk doctor presenting it as an option but 110 00:09:22.610 --> 00:09:28.080 being a little more forceful to present that as an option because, whether you're 111 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:33.559 aware of it or not, any woman who comes in pregnant is presented that 112 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:39.750 as an option these days unless the is prolife. So that that is the 113 00:09:39.029 --> 00:09:45.230 that that's a sad statement. Do you you think edith just as far as 114 00:09:45.429 --> 00:09:48.190 as almost like a winend doubt, throw it out sort of mentality for doctors? 115 00:09:48.870 --> 00:09:54.059 Do you think that is because of they're just afraid of be ensued, 116 00:09:54.539 --> 00:09:58.059 or what do you think is the root of that? I really do not 117 00:09:58.460 --> 00:10:03.980 think that suit is at the bottom of it. I've never heard one of 118 00:10:03.059 --> 00:10:09.330 the high rist doctors say they were afraid of being sued. It generally just 119 00:10:09.210 --> 00:10:18.730 in many cases where women are seemingly pressured by the HIGHRIST team to abort, 120 00:10:18.850 --> 00:10:22.559 it's because they just feel like it's going to be such a burden on the 121 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:30.799 woman, her family, resources, etc. And the the issue for the 122 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:37.149 poor woman is that this is just an ongoing pressure that she feels yeah to 123 00:10:37.269 --> 00:10:41.750 an extreme sometimes, and so I've even had situations where I've had to say 124 00:10:41.830 --> 00:10:46.470 to the team the patient has told you she wants to continue the pregnancy. 125 00:10:46.950 --> 00:10:52.740 She really doesn't want to hear one more offering for for termination of the pregnancy 126 00:10:52.820 --> 00:10:56.980 killing of the baby. Wow, so in your work you're actually counseling the 127 00:10:58.059 --> 00:11:01.940 women. You are a pro life doctor in a see of pro choice people, 128 00:11:03.059 --> 00:11:05.289 or, if not pro choice, kind of wanting an abortion, at 129 00:11:05.330 --> 00:11:11.009 least as what they see these here route. How would you counsel those women? 130 00:11:11.090 --> 00:11:16.370 How would you help them in highrist situations, to choose life? So 131 00:11:16.769 --> 00:11:20.159 what I usually do is, and we have a set up, most of 132 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:28.720 these women are die have diabetes. So in my situation it's generally the woman 133 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:33.669 has gotten pregnant in her diabetes is under poor control and she has a baby 134 00:11:33.710 --> 00:11:41.269 with a birth defect or she herself has a serious complication of diabetes. And 135 00:11:41.870 --> 00:11:46.980 interestingly enough there have been a couple of occasions where in which the highers team 136 00:11:48.019 --> 00:11:52.220 has gone in and not told me that the woman is abortion minded. She 137 00:11:52.259 --> 00:11:56.980 might have mentioned this to the purse and so I have to keep my ear 138 00:11:56.059 --> 00:12:01.379 to the ground. So I will go in and speak to them about their 139 00:12:01.450 --> 00:12:05.009 diabetes and then, if I know that there's some mention of abortion, that 140 00:12:05.129 --> 00:12:09.690 there has been some talk with counseling, with the patient. You know, 141 00:12:09.809 --> 00:12:15.330 I will try to ascertain where she is spiritually, because if she's a believer, 142 00:12:15.649 --> 00:12:20.080 we can go right to the the truth of the matter. If she's 143 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:26.759 not a believer, then I mean it's the same, same story, except 144 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:31.549 that, again, I guess, I have a more of an evangelistic conversation 145 00:12:31.870 --> 00:12:37.029 with her and it's similar to what we have at the abortion facility. It's 146 00:12:37.149 --> 00:12:41.029 that you know God loves her and has a plan for her and her baby 147 00:12:41.230 --> 00:12:46.500 and that this baby already has a beating heart and you know, ninety five 148 00:12:46.580 --> 00:12:48.860 percent of the cases, by the time she gets to me and that I 149 00:12:50.139 --> 00:12:52.860 can help her get through this pregnancy, that it will be difficult, it 150 00:12:52.980 --> 00:12:58.299 will be demanding, but that we will get her through it. So do 151 00:12:58.009 --> 00:13:01.330 you introduce the idea of God? Because my understanding, at least in some 152 00:13:01.529 --> 00:13:05.690 settings, as you absolutely are not allowed to do that, but we're would 153 00:13:05.690 --> 00:13:09.129 you do it anyway? Well, I would do it anyway. Okay, 154 00:13:09.649 --> 00:13:13.120 good for you. I've never been forbidden to talk about God to a patient. 155 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:16.639 Now I've been retired for a year. I don't know whether that's change, 156 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:22.360 but I've always had free rain to talk about my faith that with a 157 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:26.669 patient. So you know, it's maybe like I've never asked, I've just 158 00:13:28.070 --> 00:13:31.269 I've just spoken my faith with patients. I mean that's why I went into 159 00:13:31.309 --> 00:13:35.110 medicine. So you know, that's that's awesome. And have you have you 160 00:13:35.190 --> 00:13:39.629 had a fairly good success with talking to high risk MOMS who maybe we're thinking 161 00:13:39.629 --> 00:13:46.220 abortion, changing their minds? Yes, yes, and I don't know that 162 00:13:46.419 --> 00:13:50.179 they really change their minds because I think a lot of times the pain, 163 00:13:50.419 --> 00:13:56.809 the the high rest team would go in and they were not necessarily abortion minded 164 00:13:56.970 --> 00:14:03.809 coming in and so this would be presented to them as an option. But 165 00:14:03.570 --> 00:14:07.690 then when I would go in and say look, we can, we can 166 00:14:07.809 --> 00:14:11.120 get through this together. This is not a life threatening situation. It's a 167 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:16.840 difficult situation, it's going to be a hard situation. And the other thing 168 00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:20.960 with regard to the baby is that in most cases, with the high risk 169 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:26.950 situations that I was involved with, is in most of those cases the the 170 00:14:28.950 --> 00:14:37.149 defects were fatal or fixable. That was sort of mine mantra and therefore we 171 00:14:37.350 --> 00:14:46.059 could let God take care of that situation for the baby as it was developing. 172 00:14:46.139 --> 00:14:48.419 I see so. So, in other words, let nature take its 173 00:14:48.500 --> 00:14:52.860 course. The baby may may die, the baby may not die, but 174 00:14:52.090 --> 00:14:56.409 but let's leave that up to God rather than being on your conscience and an 175 00:14:56.450 --> 00:15:01.649 abortion exactly. But that was there. I will tell you that that meets 176 00:15:01.009 --> 00:15:09.279 with opposition with some physicians. And why is that? Because they don't they 177 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:13.759 think it's a poor use of resources that to allow a woman who look an 178 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:20.879 example, if a baby is born without kidneys, then it's unlikely that that 179 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:26.070 baby can survive. Fortunately, I have never had a situation which a physician 180 00:15:26.269 --> 00:15:31.149 refused to take care of of a baby who didn't have the kidneys, and 181 00:15:31.309 --> 00:15:37.620 those babies usually dine the third trimester. But I did have a woman, 182 00:15:37.779 --> 00:15:41.259 let me give one other more common example, whose brain development was not good. 183 00:15:43.100 --> 00:15:48.139 She wanted to give that baby the opportunity to live for as long as 184 00:15:48.340 --> 00:15:52.730 the baby God chose to give the baby life and her obstetrician refused to take 185 00:15:52.769 --> 00:15:58.409 care of her. Oh my goodness, and she was a nurse, so 186 00:15:58.009 --> 00:16:02.970 it was it was a very sad situation. So just to say that, 187 00:16:03.409 --> 00:16:08.919 unfortunately we have people in the medical community who are who are rationalizing that this 188 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:12.559 is not a good use of resources. And I must say that I can 189 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:18.519 help but think that that's going to ramp up further. Shure and underline that 190 00:16:18.710 --> 00:16:22.509 thought is that the baby is not a value or is of lesser value that, 191 00:16:22.669 --> 00:16:27.070 or they wouldn't make that determination. Exactly right. Yeah, well, 192 00:16:27.190 --> 00:16:32.429 as you know, edith, we encounter situations like this. Is while we're 193 00:16:32.429 --> 00:16:36.740 doing this podcast, and you already mentioned earlier. At the abortion centers we 194 00:16:36.860 --> 00:16:41.220 have conversations. Now the majority of conversations that we have in the more majority, 195 00:16:41.299 --> 00:16:44.340 vast majority, of women coming to an abortion center are not coming because 196 00:16:44.379 --> 00:16:48.450 of complications like this, but we do encounter it. So how would you, 197 00:16:48.970 --> 00:16:52.169 how would you recommend, as sidewalk counselors, your sidewall counsel yourself? 198 00:16:52.330 --> 00:16:56.370 We appreciate you volunteering in the capacity that you do, since been a blessing 199 00:16:56.450 --> 00:17:02.399 to us. But how would you recommend that we push back against some of 200 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:07.440 the pro abortion rhetoric from the doctors, knowing that these doctors are in a 201 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:11.359 position of authority. These women see them as an authority, and in rightly 202 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:14.640 so. They've gone to medical school and all of that. But how do 203 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:18.950 we how do we set things right and say this doctor is not actually the 204 00:17:18.109 --> 00:17:23.750 final say that God is the final say. How do you recommend we handle 205 00:17:23.789 --> 00:17:32.259 those conversations? I think in the general because, again what you've said is 206 00:17:32.299 --> 00:17:37.460 exactly right. You've got a counselor on the sidewalk who, unless that counselor 207 00:17:37.980 --> 00:17:42.700 would be a physician, does not carry the authority that a woman's physician would 208 00:17:42.740 --> 00:17:48.849 carry. But I think that person, a counselor on the sidewalk, can 209 00:17:48.130 --> 00:17:57.289 say to the woman with great respect that abortion for medical purposes because the life 210 00:17:57.369 --> 00:18:02.559 of the mother is in danger, are the life of the baby is in 211 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:07.519 danger, is quite rare, particularly the life of the mother. As I 212 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:14.109 as as I might say to you, my husband was as a cancer specialist. 213 00:18:14.309 --> 00:18:17.789 I dealt in high risk go be in there probably been only two to 214 00:18:18.069 --> 00:18:22.549 three cases in which continuing the pregnancy. So we're talking about eighty years of 215 00:18:22.670 --> 00:18:27.339 practice between the two of us. Two are three, two or three situations 216 00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:33.619 in which continuing the pregnancy there was a high risk that the mother would die. 217 00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:41.059 So I think the sidewalk counselor can say number one, that situation is 218 00:18:41.299 --> 00:18:51.809 very rare. Would you be willing to talk to another physician about what this 219 00:18:52.130 --> 00:18:59.359 what your situation is, and get a second opinion? And, as I've 220 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.480 said to to you two, Jim and I would like to serve as that 221 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.559 second opinion and if we don't know the answer, we know who to go 222 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.950 to to get the answer. So that's what I hope that we can develop, 223 00:19:12.349 --> 00:19:17.789 because it's a difficult spot for the for the sidewalk counselor to be in. 224 00:19:18.190 --> 00:19:19.750 Yeah, it is. Let me ask you, because I we often 225 00:19:19.950 --> 00:19:23.779 do our for that, we train our councilors to offer that and frequently the 226 00:19:23.859 --> 00:19:27.980 response I will here is, well, it is my high risk doctor that 227 00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:33.380 recommended I come here. How can we counter that? Were from what you've 228 00:19:33.460 --> 00:19:37.980 just said, it sounds like there's a lot of high resk doctors out there 229 00:19:37.019 --> 00:19:42.170 who might be counseling abortion. So what would be a good way to respond 230 00:19:42.210 --> 00:19:49.250 to that statement? Well, in Charlotte, in our local community, again, 231 00:19:49.930 --> 00:19:56.440 my husband are I, with our both being physicians and in taking care 232 00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:00.079 of highers patients in the OB world, we could pick up the phone and 233 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:04.359 call the we know all the high risk doctors in town, or we at 234 00:20:04.359 --> 00:20:08.269 least have standing with them, so we could call if that part, if 235 00:20:08.349 --> 00:20:11.430 the woman were willing to give us the name of the doctor, we could 236 00:20:11.430 --> 00:20:15.910 call them you know, we couldn't do that in another city, but I'm 237 00:20:17.109 --> 00:20:22.619 just not sure how else other than to urge them to get a second opinion 238 00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:26.619 from another high risk doctor. Right, okay, that's good. That's great. 239 00:20:27.500 --> 00:20:33.619 So so you encounter probably, like Daniel said, we really don't see 240 00:20:33.779 --> 00:20:40.170 this is not a the bulk of abortions that we see, but we do 241 00:20:40.450 --> 00:20:45.369 hear it and I'll tell you some of the things that we have heard include 242 00:20:45.450 --> 00:20:49.240 a topic pregnancy, hyper emesis, gravidium, I don't know if I'm saying 243 00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:53.319 that correct where they just can't stop throwing up, basically, or maybe the 244 00:20:53.400 --> 00:21:00.160 baby already dead. Can can you address those issues, because they I think 245 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:04.710 those are probably the most common I think I've seen. I sometimes the MOM 246 00:21:04.829 --> 00:21:10.470 sill say they have high blood pressure. Now, is that ever a an 247 00:21:10.670 --> 00:21:15.349 issue? That is killed the baby is the only solution? Well, let 248 00:21:15.430 --> 00:21:21.220 me say that the one case in which I felt that the life of the 249 00:21:21.299 --> 00:21:26.059 mother was in danger was a woman who developed early high blood pressure of pregnancy 250 00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:34.450 superimposed upon already underlying high blood pressure in in a week in which the baby 251 00:21:34.569 --> 00:21:41.490 could not survive even in the high risk unit outside the mother and the mother 252 00:21:41.009 --> 00:21:47.089 was bleeding from the platelets. Because of that the treatment was delivery of the 253 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:52.319 baby. So the baby was delivered. Couldn't so that is such a rare 254 00:21:52.319 --> 00:22:00.000 situation. Usually blood pressure can be controlled at talkt a topic. Pregnancies are 255 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:06.309 usually emergency situations. So I find it very unusual that a woman would be 256 00:22:06.430 --> 00:22:11.910 sent to an abortion clinic for an ectopic pregnancy. Right, hyper EMMESSIS GRAVIDERREM 257 00:22:11.349 --> 00:22:18.299 is no indication for abortion. That's an elective abortion. As far as for 258 00:22:18.500 --> 00:22:26.779 my opinion, that's a woman who has decided that she can't deal with this 259 00:22:26.140 --> 00:22:30.849 and so, as a sidewalk counselor, I would urge her, if her 260 00:22:30.930 --> 00:22:38.369 obstetrician has recommended this, that she find another obstetrician and get help to get 261 00:22:38.529 --> 00:22:48.000 her through the hyper emesis because again, I've taken women through very difficult hyporemesis 262 00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:56.119 where there were underlying gastric issues with this, with the pregnancy superimposing itself on 263 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:00.390 that, and we got the women through it. There's there's no indication in 264 00:23:00.549 --> 00:23:06.269 that. So again it's hard if the if the if the obstetrician has referred 265 00:23:06.390 --> 00:23:11.670 the patient for the sidewalk counselor to say that. So again that idea of 266 00:23:11.869 --> 00:23:18.099 delaying long enough, and usually hyperremesis occurs in the first trimester up to about 267 00:23:18.220 --> 00:23:22.660 fifteen weeks. Well, pregnancy abortion, as you all know, is legal 268 00:23:22.740 --> 00:23:27.529 up to twenty weeks in North Carolina, and so she can, you know, 269 00:23:27.769 --> 00:23:32.609 she can wait until we could try to find help for her so that 270 00:23:32.730 --> 00:23:37.049 she wouldn't have to abort the pregnancy. Right. And the other what was 271 00:23:37.130 --> 00:23:41.839 the other condition? That you the baby already dead is one that we do 272 00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:45.799 here. A live which to me is is so tragic, because their doctors 273 00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:52.279 send them to the abortion center for a DNC because it's less expensive than the 274 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:57.430 hospital. And that is true, but I just can't imagine the pain, 275 00:23:57.589 --> 00:24:02.430 the emotional pain, of wanting a child that has died and then sitting in 276 00:24:02.549 --> 00:24:07.150 a room with women who are electing to to kill their child. So maybe 277 00:24:07.190 --> 00:24:11.740 you could address that. What what are some options we can recommend for those 278 00:24:11.140 --> 00:24:15.940 MOMS, assuming they're not lying. Sometimes they are lying. Well, I 279 00:24:17.099 --> 00:24:22.220 actually didn't realize that women were being referred to the abortion clinic with a dead 280 00:24:22.299 --> 00:24:29.130 baby. That that's very unusual, because my practice was made up primarily of 281 00:24:29.250 --> 00:24:33.569 of the low income women in Charlotte. I mean we took care of all 282 00:24:33.930 --> 00:24:38.400 comers. We took care of everyone. But if a woman presented to the 283 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:44.720 emergency room or if we found in the clinic, and these are women who 284 00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:48.480 have no insurance, self pay, they aren't citizens of this country, we 285 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:52.430 sent them to the emergency room and they would not be sent to an abortion 286 00:24:52.509 --> 00:24:57.109 clinic, they would be put in the hospital in hat undergo a DNC. 287 00:24:57.509 --> 00:25:03.630 So I I don't I'm I think they're all lying to us. Then I 288 00:25:03.549 --> 00:25:07.339 don't know, Vicky, I know that we've, I mean I've encountered a 289 00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:11.140 few situations and I know you have act, even with some follow up with 290 00:25:11.500 --> 00:25:15.819 the dead in particular, where I knew they were telling the tree they were. 291 00:25:15.059 --> 00:25:18.500 Yeah, and I think it is. That is you of cost. 292 00:25:18.900 --> 00:25:23.369 The abortion center will do a DNC for less than four hundred dollars in early 293 00:25:23.490 --> 00:25:30.009 pregnancy, and the hospital charges, I would say, four to FIVEZERO dollars. 294 00:25:30.529 --> 00:25:34.289 So I think that's the difference. And still yet, though, at 295 00:25:34.329 --> 00:25:38.759 least from my perspective, I want to still encourage them. I mean no, 296 00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:45.200 no doctor will, almost no doctor aspires to be an abortionist. That's 297 00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:49.190 and so going into an abortion clinic with a doctor who's quite likely like the 298 00:25:49.309 --> 00:25:55.670 local doctors here, Dr Ron Vermonti and Susan Alberta. They're not good doctors 299 00:25:55.710 --> 00:25:57.349 and I wouldn't, I wouldn't, put my dog in their care. So 300 00:25:57.470 --> 00:26:00.150 that's one of the things that I use as an encouragement to get them away 301 00:26:00.150 --> 00:26:03.420 from the abortion center. Well, I think that's I think that's wise. 302 00:26:03.500 --> 00:26:08.460 Counsel. Like I say, I don't have any experience with it and the 303 00:26:08.539 --> 00:26:14.660 women that that I have seen who have had that horrible experience have been sent 304 00:26:14.740 --> 00:26:18.329 to the emergency room. Now maybe in you know, another healthcare setting, 305 00:26:18.890 --> 00:26:23.369 maybe they do send them to the abortion clinic. But, as I said, 306 00:26:23.369 --> 00:26:27.369 that's that's not something that I've had an experience with. But we need 307 00:26:27.450 --> 00:26:33.880 to seek an alternative to give these women yes, ortible. I know locally, 308 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:36.799 and Edith, maybe you can speak to this, since you have connections 309 00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:41.839 here in Charlotte. We will refer them to the low cost MED clinic. 310 00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:45.559 Is that what it is, Vicki, with the physician's Residence Clinic? Yeah, 311 00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:48.710 here in Charlotte and and and in fact, that that leads to one 312 00:26:48.750 --> 00:26:52.589 of our questions with edith, which is just really beautiful at that she has 313 00:26:52.670 --> 00:26:57.670 offered she has a vision for exactly this issue. That I think is great 314 00:26:57.829 --> 00:27:03.740 and that maybe would be possible in any city where you're seeking to promote life 315 00:27:03.740 --> 00:27:06.740 as opposed to abortion for MOMS of high res. So, but I don't 316 00:27:06.740 --> 00:27:08.819 mean jump jump into that, edith. What is that vision of what you're 317 00:27:08.819 --> 00:27:15.769 hoping to do, at least here in Charlotte, with regard to the other 318 00:27:15.009 --> 00:27:19.529 clinics? That's right, that's right. So the reason this came to my 319 00:27:19.690 --> 00:27:25.009 mind as we were, as we are, working in counseling with women at 320 00:27:25.049 --> 00:27:29.130 the abortion facilities, particularly at plan parent, who had here in Charlotte, 321 00:27:29.130 --> 00:27:33.079 a number of women, as Daniel and Vicky no, will say, well, 322 00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:37.799 I'm not going here for an abortion, and so I when I've been 323 00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:40.319 there, I've said, well, there are other places that you can go, 324 00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:45.190 and I'll mention the mentions of the residence clinic, which is where I 325 00:27:45.349 --> 00:27:51.309 worked for years with with the pregnant diabetics there, and they will say, 326 00:27:51.430 --> 00:27:53.990 which is probably true, well, I can't get an appointment for three months. 327 00:27:55.710 --> 00:28:02.700 So we we I am trying and have we're working on a list of 328 00:28:03.099 --> 00:28:08.420 other clinics where physicians work in the community, that are low cost and that 329 00:28:08.619 --> 00:28:17.329 do sliding scale. Self Pay Medicaid, those types of coverages that low income 330 00:28:17.450 --> 00:28:21.049 home people have, as well as insurance. They'll take general insurance. So 331 00:28:21.609 --> 00:28:26.170 I think what we can do is, if we have a list available to 332 00:28:26.369 --> 00:28:30.319 give these women, we can encourage them not to go into the facility at 333 00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:37.319 all and certainly if they say well, as they do say, well, 334 00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:41.200 it took me a month to get disappointment and I really need to go in 335 00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:45.349 here, I'll I say to them, when I've written down the names of 336 00:28:45.390 --> 00:28:48.470 these clinics, I've said, well, you know, really, the next 337 00:28:48.509 --> 00:28:52.150 time you need to get this refilled, why don't you make an appointment at 338 00:28:52.230 --> 00:28:57.140 this clinic and not go to a clinic where they do abortions? And because 339 00:28:57.299 --> 00:29:06.380 obviously they're establishing care at planned parenthood with these non abortive care, with the 340 00:29:06.500 --> 00:29:10.329 not abortive care, and then when they get pregnant, look where they're going 341 00:29:10.410 --> 00:29:14.049 to go. Yeah, and I just think we need to steer the pat 342 00:29:14.170 --> 00:29:19.289 the patients away from from planned parenthood for doing anything. Yeah, absolutely, 343 00:29:19.369 --> 00:29:22.970 I agree with that. Yeah, you also talked about that. You are 344 00:29:23.049 --> 00:29:30.559 hoping to find coalition of high risk doctors that are pro life that would be 345 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:33.319 willing to consult with the women, as you have offered, for free, 346 00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:38.869 Pro Bono at least just for initial consultation to kind of steer them away from 347 00:29:40.109 --> 00:29:45.950 that crisis moment at the abortion center. Correct what what I'm hope being, 348 00:29:47.190 --> 00:29:49.829 and I have a I can't say that it's going to happen, but I'm 349 00:29:49.910 --> 00:29:57.180 praying and hoping that we can recruit a group of high risk physicians and already 350 00:29:57.259 --> 00:30:03.299 have to on board, and one of those, who doesn't live here in 351 00:30:03.420 --> 00:30:07.690 Charlotte, has a lot of connections actually across the country and he would know 352 00:30:07.890 --> 00:30:14.130 who might be willing to be, you know, maybe on call or be 353 00:30:14.289 --> 00:30:18.170 willing to, you know, take a you know a week or a month 354 00:30:18.369 --> 00:30:25.839 to to to have that call in to talk with either the counselor or talk 355 00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:30.400 with directly with the patient and then maybe help them have hook up with someone 356 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:37.269 in their city. So that's in the very, obviously very early stages of 357 00:30:37.430 --> 00:30:40.670 development, but I'm excited to think that we might be able to do that, 358 00:30:40.750 --> 00:30:45.190 that that sounds great and that that can be something that our national missionaries 359 00:30:45.390 --> 00:30:48.430 could start working on themselves as pulling together a list like that, because that 360 00:30:48.549 --> 00:30:53.099 would be, I think, so helpful since, as you indicated, we 361 00:30:53.579 --> 00:30:57.900 as counselors are not going to have a whole lot of pull on the mom 362 00:30:59.180 --> 00:31:03.059 from a medical standpoint, but a doctor might, I might be able to 363 00:31:03.099 --> 00:31:07.369 convince them to make a choice for life. Well, I think every barrier 364 00:31:07.809 --> 00:31:12.490 we can remove from them is is just moving them a step away from the 365 00:31:14.009 --> 00:31:18.369 door of the abortion facility. That yeah, that's that one charge I would 366 00:31:18.410 --> 00:31:22.599 give. Be as well informed as you possibly can be. Be well, 367 00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:27.359 as well informed as you possibly can be about fetal development, about high risk 368 00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:30.359 pregnancies, so that you can have an answer. You know, the Bible 369 00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:33.950 tells us we should have an answer for the hope that lies within us. 370 00:31:33.950 --> 00:31:36.990 We should be ready to give an answer and we should. We should be 371 00:31:37.029 --> 00:31:40.750 ready to give a Biblical and a Gospel Answer for questions about the Lord. 372 00:31:41.069 --> 00:31:42.630 But I think also we should be ready to give as best we can and 373 00:31:42.750 --> 00:31:48.220 answer for some of these high risk situations or just even some of the lies 374 00:31:48.299 --> 00:31:52.460 that are put out there that, like you know, such and such situation 375 00:31:52.660 --> 00:31:56.539 merits and abortion. If we can answer back and even answer back with some 376 00:31:56.660 --> 00:32:00.569 resources, with some websites, with some hey, you know statistically this. 377 00:32:00.769 --> 00:32:05.849 You know. If you can answer back with some statistics. That's helpful because 378 00:32:05.890 --> 00:32:07.769 what we're up against, especially when we're dealing with a high risk mom, 379 00:32:08.009 --> 00:32:12.690 or at least a mom who's been told that she's at high risk, is 380 00:32:12.809 --> 00:32:16.640 we're up against speaking against an authority like her doctor, her obie doctor, 381 00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:21.279 right, and of course I don't think it's very helpful to directly to say 382 00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:23.000 your doctor is wrong, your doctor stupid. That's not going to be helpful 383 00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:27.200 at all because she, whether we do or not, she views that doctor 384 00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:31.069 as an authority. But if we can speak in an informed and authoritative way, 385 00:32:31.630 --> 00:32:36.309 I think that will be helpful to push back some of that kind of 386 00:32:36.390 --> 00:32:40.029 pro abortion mentality. Would you agree with that? I agree completely, and 387 00:32:40.190 --> 00:32:46.980 especially in this subset of of a of women, because a number of them 388 00:32:47.380 --> 00:32:53.460 may not have been abortion minded, but they were, they were encouraged to 389 00:32:53.539 --> 00:33:00.450 have the abortion because of these issues, maternal are baby related issues, and 390 00:33:00.730 --> 00:33:07.849 so if we can, if we can intervene and give them better information to 391 00:33:07.490 --> 00:33:14.200 make their decision on, then those are women that that may be more inclined 392 00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:17.799 to change their minds. Yeah, and so I agree completely and I agree 393 00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:23.359 with and you know, again, I want to continually inform myself. I'm 394 00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:28.750 not an obstetrician. I'm an Indo chronologist, but I want to, you 395 00:33:28.829 --> 00:33:32.630 know, continually research and I look to the people who are the high risk 396 00:33:32.829 --> 00:33:38.710 ob doctors to inform me. I think it's good for like, if I 397 00:33:38.950 --> 00:33:45.579 can find articles that have good and uptodate statistics. Daniel, your your information 398 00:33:45.619 --> 00:33:51.859 about, you know, development for the orientation for the sidewalk counselors. That's 399 00:33:51.900 --> 00:33:57.730 all very good. I would recommend that sidewalk counselors have a little notebook that 400 00:33:57.930 --> 00:34:02.529 they have those statistics written down so that they can they'll have them at their 401 00:34:02.609 --> 00:34:08.969 fingertips on the sidewalk because in the you know, you can get anxious while 402 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:13.719 you're there and if you if you have them at your fingertips, though, 403 00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:16.960 you can you can quote them. So I think all those things are helpful. 404 00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:22.519 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, from we have that we can give to 405 00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:29.469 them with, you know, with authority based on on the science of the 406 00:34:29.590 --> 00:34:32.670 issues, the the better decision. You know, as I say, I 407 00:34:32.829 --> 00:34:37.820 think the farther we can remove them from the door. Yeah, yeah, 408 00:34:37.860 --> 00:34:45.460 absolutely so recently it's been in the past maybe six months or so that you've 409 00:34:45.539 --> 00:34:47.019 come out to the sidewalk. Is that right? Maybe a little more than 410 00:34:47.059 --> 00:34:52.059 that right now. It was in, I think September. Okay, yeah, 411 00:34:52.889 --> 00:34:54.010 so just to kind of wrap this thing up, I want people to 412 00:34:54.050 --> 00:35:00.170 get an understanding from a physician's perspective what brought you out on the sidewalk and 413 00:35:00.250 --> 00:35:04.210 then just any other encouragement that you can give to people who are thinking about 414 00:35:04.210 --> 00:35:08.159 going to the sidewalk or who are already out there. Well, I think 415 00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:19.679 that abortion is the holocaust of this country and it's the hidden Holocaust and it 416 00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:30.429 has just been such it's the stain upon our country and upon our world and 417 00:35:32.429 --> 00:35:43.860 God's maneuvered me into caring for high risk pregnancies, in promoting life and allowing 418 00:35:44.139 --> 00:35:52.130 me to do that in my career and then part time working with what was 419 00:35:52.210 --> 00:35:59.650 then pregnancy care center here, human coalition, and then I always had the 420 00:35:59.809 --> 00:36:07.000 desire to, once I retired, to continue that through working with a pro 421 00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:13.239 life organization and I learned about cities for life and love life and I felt 422 00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:16.239 like that was where God wanted me to be. I prayed about it and 423 00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:22.269 he's allowed me to be there and I pray that our church will take a 424 00:36:22.389 --> 00:36:29.789 more active role of it is the organization and the involvement there has allowed me 425 00:36:30.150 --> 00:36:36.539 a very evengel has allowed me to be more evangelistic in my daytoday life, 426 00:36:37.059 --> 00:36:40.659 because when people ask me what I'm doing in retirement, it's so wonderful to 427 00:36:40.780 --> 00:36:45.619 be able to say that I'd become involved in it. And I will say 428 00:36:45.780 --> 00:36:49.809 sometimes I get pushed back and there's not as much there's sometimes it's not so 429 00:36:50.010 --> 00:36:55.730 positive. But that's fine because again, because love life is at its base, 430 00:36:57.050 --> 00:37:01.880 a missionary organization who wants to bring mothers in their babies to a knowledge 431 00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:08.800 of the Gospel. That's just in keeping with my desire from the time I 432 00:37:09.159 --> 00:37:15.909 came to faith to be a missionary. So I would just encourage all the 433 00:37:15.070 --> 00:37:20.590 people on the sidewalk as missionaries, to be able to do that same thing. 434 00:37:20.869 --> 00:37:23.309 It's not just the three hours or four hours Dur on the sidewalk, 435 00:37:23.750 --> 00:37:29.030 it's what you can do in your table conversation with friends, Co workers, 436 00:37:30.139 --> 00:37:36.340 etc. That you can speak out and educate people about abortion and in the 437 00:37:36.420 --> 00:37:39.860 evils of it. And what what's going on on the sidewalk and what's what 438 00:37:40.139 --> 00:37:45.570 this what what God is accomplishing through love life? Yeah, Amen, Hey, 439 00:37:45.610 --> 00:37:49.570 man edith, you've been such a blast scene. We have so enjoyed 440 00:37:49.690 --> 00:37:52.610 having you out there and I've I've seen you be able to use your medical 441 00:37:52.730 --> 00:37:59.639 knowledge to really turn people at least to be thinking that maybe this is not 442 00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:02.960 what they should be considering. So we just want to thank you so much. 443 00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:07.480 Yeah, yeah, well, thank you. It's just been a huge 444 00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:13.190 blessing for me and I can't thank you enough and I thank God and I 445 00:38:13.349 --> 00:38:19.909 look forward to to learning from from both of you and from colleagues as we 446 00:38:20.510 --> 00:38:23.269 close these places down. Yeah, Amen. Well, again, we appreciate 447 00:38:23.510 --> 00:38:28.739 edith, appreciate you coming on and we appreciate those who are listening. Again, 448 00:38:28.780 --> 00:38:30.219 as we started out, we want you to share this podcast. Maybe 449 00:38:30.260 --> 00:38:35.699 it can be an encouragement to someone else. Maybe we'll get some some physicians 450 00:38:35.739 --> 00:38:38.659 that listen to this podcast and get a burden to come in line with edith 451 00:38:38.699 --> 00:38:43.489 and her husband's vision for getting some pro life doctors. Nash Le Rallied to 452 00:38:43.610 --> 00:38:45.530 be a resource for MOMS that feel like abortion is an option for them, 453 00:38:46.250 --> 00:38:50.250 and so share this podcast. Guys. The further it goes out, the 454 00:38:50.409 --> 00:38:53.409 more of those resources can be. There's connections can be made, and also 455 00:38:53.489 --> 00:38:57.360 reach out to me, Daniel at love life dot org, or reach out 456 00:38:57.360 --> 00:39:00.280 to Vicky, Vicky at Love Life Dot Org, and just give us some 457 00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:04.559 suggestions of topics we can cover. Maybe you guys have a topic you'd like 458 00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:07.239 for us to bring edith back on for that she can speak from a physician's 459 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:12.269 perspective. I'm sure she'd be willing to come back on and share her perspective. 460 00:39:12.949 --> 00:39:15.110 But we just again want to encourage you guys to be out there on 461 00:39:15.150 --> 00:39:20.710 the sidewalks, to be a gospel presence, out there offering help and hope 462 00:39:20.710 --> 00:39:24.219 in the name of Jesus and with that will in this thing. So until 463 00:39:24.260 --> 00:39:37.260 next time, God bless give for love, give me our love, for 464 00:39:37.460 --> 00:39:50.969 gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious in 465 00:39:51.250 --> 00:39:52.250 some you