In As Much As It Depends On Us

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.720 So as much as it depends on you. As I was thinking about that 2 00:00:03.799 --> 00:00:07.759 great verse that you brought up, I know that I need to behave the 3 00:00:07.799 --> 00:00:15.199 way that Scripture tells me to behave. And I have to trust that God 4 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.640 is going to iron out whatever needs to be ironed out, and he knows 5 00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:25.239 that they're there. I have to keep remembering that he knows that that other 6 00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:32.000 group is there. I am yours, I'm yours, I'm yours. And 7 00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:38.719 me Lord, I'm yours, I'm yours, I'm Welcome to the Gospel Centered 8 00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:44.039 Pro Life Podcast, a podcast designed to equip, encourage, and challenge you 9 00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:48.280 in pro life ministry and always with a focus on the gospel. Stay tuned. 10 00:00:50.280 --> 00:01:00.759 I felt your pashed, touch your heart use welcome back to the Gospel 11 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:04.799 Centered Pro Life Podcast. Appreciate you guys joining us, And just to give 12 00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:08.239 you guys the heads up, we are recording remotely, so if the sound 13 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.280 is a little different than it normally is, that's the reason why. But 14 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:15.560 we are committed to bringing you these episodes every week. So when we're not 15 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:22.480 able to be together in person and record an episode, vikinna record remotely and 16 00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:26.280 uh so, yeah, this this will go well and UM, I just 17 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:29.319 wanted to mention too, as we often do at the beginning of the podcast, 18 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:32.640 we would love for you guys to leave us a review of this podcast 19 00:01:32.680 --> 00:01:36.680 episode and a review of this podcast just in general. We'd also love for 20 00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:38.480 you to share this podcast with other people that you think it would be a 21 00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:42.640 blessing too. And then we would encourage you to reach out to us if 22 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:48.079 you have questions or suggestions for future episodes, maybe comments about this particular episode, 23 00:01:48.519 --> 00:01:51.359 UM, and we'll give our email addresses at the end. Also, 24 00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:55.840 I want to mention UM something that we've mentioned often but maybe haven't mentioned in 25 00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:59.239 a while, which is two websites that we have that would be a blessing 26 00:01:59.239 --> 00:02:01.000 to you. We created those to bless those who want to get involved in 27 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:07.040 sidewalk ministry or who are doing sidewalk ministry. The first website is the Gospel 28 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:10.479 Centered pro life dot com websites. If you just go to Gospel Center pro 29 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:15.639 life dot com, that's our podcast website. So all the information for these 30 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:20.680 podcasts, all the past episodes, all of that stuff is there, and 31 00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:23.479 you can actually search for keywords if you're looking for a particular episode that might 32 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:28.319 have covered a particular subject. So yeah, Gospel Centered Pro Life dot Com 33 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:30.759 is our podcast website, and then we have a website that's a training and 34 00:02:30.759 --> 00:02:36.319 equipping website for people that want to get involved in sidewalk ministry and that sidewalks 35 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:40.000 the number four life dot com So Sidewalks for Life dot com. You can 36 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:45.000 go check that out. There's articles there, the articles that we post that 37 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:47.319 have to do with this UM. The article that we're gonna post that has 38 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:52.759 to do with this particular episode is gonna be on um Sidewalks for Life dot 39 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:54.719 com. And there's a bunch of other articles and a bunch of other stuff 40 00:02:54.759 --> 00:03:00.439 there. So with that, Vicky, let's jump into our episode. What 41 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:06.319 is our subject for today? Well, this, as many of our podcast 42 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:10.800 developed, was developed from an actual situation that happened on the sidewalk. It's 43 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:15.960 very very common. We've actually discussed it before, but we felt it it 44 00:03:16.599 --> 00:03:22.479 probably needed to be talked about again. And that is what to do when 45 00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:28.439 there are other groups that are on our side, pro life groups, Christians 46 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:37.159 who come with a very different way of approaching the women, and in this 47 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:44.719 particular situation away which we really were hesitant to be associated with UM, it 48 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:51.199 was it was much harsher, much harsher than how we would train our love 49 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:57.159 life counselors in general to interact with with the women. And it always creates 50 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:00.520 a great deal of tension. And honestly, I will tell tell you that 51 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:04.120 when I come up against that, it is more difficult for me to deal 52 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:11.120 with than when the opposition is terrible. Yeah, yeah, which is it's 53 00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:14.039 almost like you get you get hit on every side. And so just to 54 00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:16.480 give you guys a picture of what we're talking about, there was a situation 55 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:20.240 just a few days ago where, uh, I don't know, three or 56 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:24.800 four people showed up on the sidewalk here in Charlotte, and our team was 57 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:28.240 already out there. Our team is out there typically from nine to twelve, 58 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:31.480 reaching out sometimes a little before and after. But um, this group shows 59 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:35.959 up as our team is out there doing their thing, and they start yelling 60 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:40.439 at the women, start yelling things that are just you know, really over 61 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:47.000 the top, unnecessarily um confrontational, under unnecessarily offensive things. We're certainly not 62 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:53.000 against saying offensive things like saying abortionist murder is pretty offensive to people. Were 63 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:55.680 certainly not against that, But there are some things that are over the top. 64 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:58.360 And one of the things that happens, you know, we already have 65 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:00.560 opposition out there, many of the ABO centers that you guys are ministering, 66 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:03.600 Yet you have some kind of opposition, maybe people that drive by and curse 67 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:08.600 you, or maybe have pro abortion people out there with their rainbow umbrellas, 68 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:12.319 invests and all that stuff. And you know, we're already getting hit from 69 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:16.759 that angle right there, already hurling false accusations against us and cursing us and 70 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:20.199 all of that. To get hit from the other angle from the people that 71 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:25.600 you think should be on your side, um, can make things pretty difficult. 72 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:29.319 And so we're gonna talk through that and talk through kind of like how 73 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:31.639 you can navigate through that, how you can deal with that, how to 74 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:36.800 process that, and uh and still keep keep doing what God has called you 75 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:40.720 to do. It's it's again, it's not easy. One of the first 76 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:45.839 things I'll say, as we talked about this before we started recording, is 77 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:48.920 in a lot of these situations, now, some of these situations, it 78 00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:53.240 can be that they come out, these other pro life people or whatever they 79 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:57.319 call themselves, street preachers can come out. And I'm not against street preachers, 80 00:05:57.319 --> 00:06:00.519 like street preaching is awesome. People get saved, it's amazing. But 81 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:03.279 there are some that maybe you would call One guy said, they're not street 82 00:06:03.319 --> 00:06:06.519 preachers, they're streets screechers, right, They're just out there just to make 83 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:12.759 a noise. And you know, there was a situation actually, um several 84 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:15.560 months ago where some of those folks came out to one of our cities and 85 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:19.759 we're actually targeting the side of ball counselors out there, like targeting targeting them, 86 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:23.759 calling them names and then calling the women that are going in names and 87 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:30.040 just dishonoring the Lord. But in most of these situations, you gotta understand 88 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:32.959 these people are coming out and though they may not be doing things like we 89 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:36.240 do them, and that they may be doing things that are over the top, 90 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:40.560 they're not really coming out to oppose you. Yes, it's throwing a 91 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:44.079 monkey wrench in what you're doing, but they're not coming out necessarily in their 92 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:47.199 heart to cause you problems. They're coming out to to do what they feel 93 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:50.720 like God has called them to. Now whether or not God has called them 94 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:54.560 to that can be up for debate, and I think the debates pretty much 95 00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:57.720 settled. When they're doing unbiblical things, God has not called them to that, 96 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:00.199 but we do have to understand that it's not. One of the things 97 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:03.519 I told you about is we can't take it personal. And I think that's 98 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:08.680 probably the main thing as we talk about opposition from whatever side it comes, 99 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:12.160 is we can't take it personal. So I wanted to say that first and 100 00:07:12.199 --> 00:07:15.839 foremost. Yeah, I really like that, that we really have to not 101 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:25.120 take it personally. And another similar thought is we need to recognize that our 102 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:30.439 way is not always the only way. Now, I felt very clearly I 103 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:35.079 heard this group UM, and I did feel it was over the top, 104 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:39.959 and I did feel it was not what God would have them do. But 105 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:44.920 I as I was thinking through this issue and how the best deal with it, 106 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:47.160 one of the things that that I know is true of me is I've 107 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:53.519 been out there for ten years and when I started on the sidewalk mine, 108 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:58.040 I think the way I spoke, the things that I said, I would 109 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:03.680 probably characterize as gentle learn than I am now. I do try to speak 110 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:13.600 always UM with a gentle tone and compassion and UM try to empathize with or 111 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:18.240 sympathize at best with UM, at least with where these women are coming from 112 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:22.759 in the situations they face, But I think I'm more readily go to harder 113 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:28.240 truths now than I did ten years ago. And I know that there are 114 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:37.159 people that will tell me that I am not gentle enough in in what I'm 115 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:45.399 saying. Certainly the opposition says that frequently so. Um So it is not 116 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:52.240 necessarily true that because someone is is coming with a message that is a little 117 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:56.919 more hard hitting, that that is not going to be used by God. 118 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:05.759 But I do you think that there is a line that we can draw between 119 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:13.879 uh convicting message, maybe what someone might call a prophetic message, as opposed 120 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:22.799 to self righteous anger, and when and when we cross that line, I 121 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:30.320 think then we can begin to discuss whether what is happening is still biblical. 122 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:35.720 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think obviously as we teach in our 123 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:39.080 trainings, and we actually actually touch on this subject in our trainings. I 124 00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:43.480 think we touch on it in the one oh one training how to deal with 125 00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:46.159 other pro life groups. Maybe it's some one O two at this point, 126 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:48.840 but I don't exactly recall, but we do touch on it, and of 127 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:52.720 course we did. We did a podcast about this not terribly long ago. 128 00:09:54.360 --> 00:10:03.519 Um Our our angle always has to be what does the Bible say all right, 129 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:05.720 at the end of the day, that's got to be our foundation. 130 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:09.480 And I say that because if you have people that come out they're doing things 131 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:13.480 different than what you were trained under love life or what you feel like is 132 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:18.080 effective, that's not necessarily the measure of what is what is right and what 133 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:22.960 is good right just because we teach it we i'm, I'm. The Lord 134 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:26.000 has taught me enough to know that I don't know everything right, and that 135 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:28.679 just because I have a particular bend towards a particular way of doing things doesn't 136 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.360 necessarily mean that's the only thing that God will use. So the standard of 137 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:37.879 what is right and what is good and what's acceptable as far as outreach at 138 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:41.080 an abortion center is not love life, and it's not our feelings, and 139 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:45.879 it's not even what's pragmatic what works right. We certainly want to do things 140 00:10:45.879 --> 00:10:48.799 that work, there's no doubt about that. But it really, first and 141 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:54.320 foremost has to be the scriptures right. And you can certainly look at scriptures 142 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:58.480 and see where people were pretty harsh John the Baptist, it was a pretty 143 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:03.679 harsh guy, um to people to repent and calling them a brood of snakes 144 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:07.879 and Jesus the same way many of the prophets in the Old Testament and uh 145 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:13.080 folks in the New Paul was a pretty pretty brash guy, and some people's 146 00:11:13.159 --> 00:11:20.360 estimation confronted evil. So there's nothing necessarily wrong with being confrontational. But when 147 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:24.080 you get into the realm of it's like some of the things that were observed, 148 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:26.720 like name calling and stuff like that, that's when you step outside of 149 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:33.080 what's biblically allowed and you just get in the flesh. And I think that's 150 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:35.679 at least for this situation that we're kind of referencing that happened a couple of 151 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:39.039 days ago, I think these people were in the flesh. They're operating out 152 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:41.879 of the flesh. They're operating, like you said, out of self righteousness. 153 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:46.639 And you can see that self righteousness manifest itself when people are just calling 154 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:50.840 names. You know, you're you know, a horror or a murderer, 155 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:56.639 just flinging that word around like it's you know, the whatever, the word 156 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:01.240 that you need to use all the time, and it's it flows out of 157 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:05.039 self righteous as you can tell by the way that people carry themselves. Really 158 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:11.679 humility in this particular scenario, um would look like talking to the people who 159 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:15.159 are already out there. Right, If I showed up and then I've done 160 00:12:15.159 --> 00:12:18.440 this, show up to an abortion center that I've never been to before because 161 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:22.320 I feel like God has called me there. I visited cities all over the 162 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.360 nation that have abortion centers, and I show up out there and there are 163 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:28.039 people out there already doing the ministry. I'm not gonna just show up and 164 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.440 do my thing. Just start doing what I do. Even as as much 165 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:35.200 as I know the Lord has taught me and as effective as I know what 166 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:37.440 we do, and a biblical as biblical as I know what we do, 167 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:41.840 is if there are people out there doing the stuff, I'm not gonna come 168 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:45.600 in and start doing ministry over top of them. I'm gonna go and talk 169 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:48.639 to them. I'm gonna first thank them for being out there. That shows 170 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:52.559 humility, Right. And so if somebody just shows up out of the abortion 171 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:56.919 center you've been ministering to for a couple of years and just you know, 172 00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:01.559 starts throwing around the biblical wrecking all with no regard for what you're doing, 173 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:05.159 you can you can pretty much deduce that these people are in the flesh, 174 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:11.080 because that doesn't honor God. Humility honors Lord, that's pride, it's arrogant. 175 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:13.120 It'd be like showing up. I mean, imagine you're a missionary. 176 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:16.759 This is kind of the picture that I actually helped our team with a little 177 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:20.240 bit and just help them to understand the dynamic here. But also we need 178 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:24.879 to come with humility ourselves. But the picture is you're you're a missionary. 179 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.279 And I've talked to let me just backtrack just a bit. I've talked to 180 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:30.759 people that do exactly what we're talking about. They show up to the abortion 181 00:13:30.759 --> 00:13:33.080 center. They just do their thing, disregarding the people that have been serving 182 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:37.360 out there for years because they feel like they need to do this or do 183 00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:39.240 that. I've talked to these people, and this is the analogy that I've 184 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:43.399 given. Imagine that you're a missionary in a foreign country and you've been plowing 185 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:48.399 the ground there for five years. You've been reaching the people, you've been 186 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:52.279 building relationships with the people, and you've seen some fruit. All of a 187 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:58.000 sudden, this short term mission trip group comes out to where you're at doing 188 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:00.720 mission, where you've been doing it for five years. They show up right 189 00:14:00.759 --> 00:14:03.600 in the middle of the town and they just put a wrecking ball in all 190 00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:05.240 the all the things that you've built, all the things that you've worked for 191 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:09.720 in the relationships that you've worked to build, they just come up and they 192 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.600 start just street preaching all over the place, just really disregarding the work that 193 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:16.159 you've done, start doing what they feel like God has called them to. 194 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:20.000 Like, how would that make you feel? This is the analogy I'm trying 195 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:22.759 to give to the to the people that show up like that. I do 196 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:28.200 think helping people to understand that dynamic with analogies it's helpful. But sometimes with 197 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:33.919 these people it's not easy to uh have a conversation with them. And I'm 198 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:37.960 talking about some of the screet the street screecher type of people, people who 199 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:41.519 really an arrogance and pride, feel like their way or the highway, you 200 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:43.440 know, like there's no other way to preach, there's no other way to 201 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.639 engage people at an abortion center but their own way. So we don't want 202 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:50.519 to take that attitude for sure, and we want to combat that attitude, 203 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:56.080 but it's hard to get through to people that have have pride and hardness of 204 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:58.960 heart like that. Yeah, and so it's kind of some practical suggestion. 205 00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:05.519 Gens, are you don't want to create division on the sidewalk in front of 206 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:11.440 the opposition. So it's very difficult to have this discussion right as it's happening. 207 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:13.240 And sometimes the best you can do. We're going to go into some 208 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:16.120 ideas for what are the best things you can do when you're in the midst 209 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:24.559 of that situation. But following that UM situation, taking the group the person 210 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:31.240 whoever the leader is, aside going for coffee whatever, having a private phone 211 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:35.039 call. It needs to be a private discussion. And I actually did do 212 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:39.720 this early on. This is not the first time the group has been there, 213 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:43.960 and the some of the principles I used are things that we train our 214 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:48.279 people to do, and I think that they're valuable. First of all, 215 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:50.840 find out where they thank them, like you said, Daniel, thank them 216 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:54.120 for showing up and for their zeal and fighting for the life of the preborn. 217 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:58.679 Secondly, find out where they're coming from. And I did find out 218 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:03.279 they they are street churs. They said that, and and I did talk 219 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:10.879 with them about in my experience where I see the street preaching approach UM being 220 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:14.159 in general less likely to get people to come and talk with us, and 221 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:18.480 that our our goal was that people would come and talk with us because then 222 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:22.759 we could um share the gospel, we could offer resources and take them on 223 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:27.559 on our mobile ultrasound unit have them more likely to choose life. And their 224 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:34.679 goal was not necessarily that the baby would be saved. Their life was really 225 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:40.639 to expose the wickedness. Their goal was to expose the wickedness and sin of 226 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:45.759 of what was happening there. So UM, it helps to kind of understand 227 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:48.639 what the goals are, and when the goals are different, there's probably gonna 228 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:53.559 be a little bit of clashing. We tried to work out a compromise, 229 00:16:53.960 --> 00:17:00.440 and in fact I would have preferred I suggested they go elsewhere, like to 230 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.799 a college campus or somewhere where you can reach women before they are in this 231 00:17:03.880 --> 00:17:07.759 life or death situation, because now there is the added element. Yes, 232 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.119 their souls are in danger, but there's a baby's life on the line, 233 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:15.920 and we know that if those moms will come and talk with us, that 234 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:18.960 baby might be saved. So um, but they weren't going to go for 235 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:22.039 that, but they did compromise they might they would come later in the day 236 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:26.759 when we were not there, and that didn't happen in this case. They 237 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:32.200 came while we were there. But um, but I think so. The 238 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:38.799 immediate first practical suggestion is have a private discussion afterwards, not there in front 239 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:42.319 of the opposition, and try to understand where they're coming from, and if 240 00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:48.440 you can compromise, do so. But I would say, first and foremost, 241 00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:52.160 just to have our minds and our hearts, right. Yeah. The 242 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:55.599 first thing is, like we talked about in our training, don't take it 243 00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:57.319 personal, right, yeah, yeah, we talked about that, and when 244 00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:02.759 dealing with angry people and dealing with aboarts, um, don't take it personal. 245 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:07.079 Don't internalize like they're not there because of you. They're there because they 246 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:08.759 feel like God has called them to be there. They're there because babies are 247 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:14.200 being murdered in there. Um. And then you know, the second thing 248 00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:17.920 is just because they're not doing it like we do, and just because they 249 00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:22.880 may be doing it unbiblically does not necessarily mean they aren't believers in Jesus. 250 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:27.759 They could just be and probably are just carnal, probably against self righteous, 251 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:30.839 and whether their believers or not, we have to believe the best. And 252 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:34.559 if they say that their believers in Jesus, um, we have to approach 253 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:38.240 them like that right, whether they are or not. And so I think 254 00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:41.880 the Matthew eighteen model that we always talk about, which is what you're saying, 255 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:45.279 is to take them, to take them aside and talk with them rather 256 00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:49.000 than One of the worst things that could happen is they're out there, they 257 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:52.720 come show up with their signs and their bullhorns and all that, and they 258 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:56.960 start yelling at the women over top of you. That's a terrible thing. 259 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:00.559 But what could be even worse than that is that you go back and forth 260 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:04.359 with them, yelling at them, and you start arguing with them about methodology 261 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:07.880 and all that other stuff, and it's just not helpful. Right, You're 262 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.839 you're adding more fuel to the fire. Essentially, you're trying to diffuse the 263 00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:18.000 thing. But in reality, some some of these folks just you can't reason 264 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:21.359 with them, not in that context. And so it's good if you can 265 00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:23.920 find out who the leader is, talk with them across the street or like 266 00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:26.799 you said, over coffee or over the phone, like can we can we 267 00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:30.319 talk about this? But immediately and I think you're gonna go into this, 268 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:36.319 but I'm not sure immediately, the best thing to do is kind of make 269 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:38.880 some distance between you and them. If you're able to do that. Now, 270 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:42.400 I'm not saying you yield ground. We certainly know that babies are dying 271 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:45.119 in there. We want to offer literature, we want to be effective. 272 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:48.839 But if we can get away from where these folks are so that we're not 273 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:53.559 associated with them, because we don't want people as much as we can to 274 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:59.720 associate us with that craziness, you know, you know, um, then 275 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.799 that could be helpful as well. Maybe position your team a little further up 276 00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:07.000 the street, or your whatever at a different driveway or something. And at 277 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:11.039 the end of the day, um, you know, you can't control what 278 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:14.440 happens on the sidewalk, so you have to leave it in the Lord's hands, 279 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:15.359 right, you have to try to reason with them. If you can't 280 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:19.119 reason with them, I would say, reposition your team and then maybe at 281 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:22.920 another point there's an opportunity to reason with them, maybe on the phone or 282 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.119 meet with them. I mean, I've even gone as far is reaching out 283 00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:30.839 and find out who their churches and reaching out to their pastors. I've done 284 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:33.160 that before as well, and getting their pastors input on it, in their 285 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:37.079 pastor to speak into it. And I've actually seen some good fruit from that. 286 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:40.920 Yeah, um, so I would. I would echo that point because 287 00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:45.880 I think it's very important if if they are behaving in a way that you 288 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:51.559 truly cannot be in good conscience before the lord associated with that message. Because 289 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:56.519 the women only see one group. They don't see two different groups with two 290 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.640 different methods. They see a pro life group that is opposing them, and 291 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:06.359 they lump us all together. So I I absolutely agree, and that's what 292 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:10.640 we told our team to do. Move away. Move away so that you 293 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:14.279 are clearly a distinct different group, and the women will hear the difference in 294 00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:18.720 your tone, and that physical separation will help them to know that you're the 295 00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:23.440 ones offering UM, hope and help and UM and this other group seems to 296 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:30.240 be very concerned about UM. There we could behavior UM and calling that out 297 00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:34.160 so the women maybe, well, we still have a chance they might approach 298 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:38.839 us. But I want to make the point also with Love Life in our 299 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:44.279 ministry, we we have team shirts. That's part of the reason for the 300 00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:48.640 team shirts, and it's why it is so critical because this is going to 301 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:53.599 happen. It's going to happen on every sidewalk if you all are identifiable as 302 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:59.720 a group and another group comes in that isn't wearing the shirts. It just 303 00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:03.359 may makes it easier for the women you're trying to reach, to make the 304 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:10.359 distinction between the two groups that you really are separate, separate, you have 305 00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:15.759 UM at least a different way of reaching the women to say, real quick 306 00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:21.960 to talk about kind of the the division dynamic. When someone comes out there 307 00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:25.319 on the sidewalk and you've been doing ministry out there for a long time and 308 00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:30.079 they're being divisive, that's on them, right, UM, But we want 309 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:33.200 to be careful not to ourselves be divisive, right even though we don't agree 310 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:36.880 with their methodology, even though it's way over the top. We want to 311 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:40.240 try not to be divisive as much as it depends on us. And that's 312 00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:45.240 what we've titled this UM this actual episode Romans chapter twelve, verse eighteen. 313 00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:51.200 Yeah, if it is possible, Romans twelve eighteen says, if it is 314 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:55.359 possible, as much as it depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 315 00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:57.799 And so that's what we're encouraging you guys to do. And so one 316 00:22:57.799 --> 00:23:03.279 of the ways that you can actually be divisive not knowing and not realizing it 317 00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:07.480 just because you know it's it's a practical way to deal with it is, 318 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:11.559 as the women are walking in, you can call out and say, we're 319 00:23:11.559 --> 00:23:15.559 not with them, We're not with the people out here yelling not knowing that 320 00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:19.519 actually that that's divisive actually, and so instead of doing that, you could 321 00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:22.559 say something. And this is where the shirts come in. Hey, come 322 00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:26.759 out and talk with someone in the coral shirt. You know that's not as 323 00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:29.480 divisive as Hey, we're not with them. Don't talk to them, talk 324 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:33.359 to us. And so you know, it's it's kind of a practical. 325 00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:37.480 People wonder why why don't y'all have the same shirts. What's so important about 326 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:38.720 wearing the shirts? We even talked about it in the training, wearing the 327 00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:44.839 coral Hope is Here shirts. It's it's to distinguish ourselves from other groups. 328 00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:47.480 So we don't have to say who we're not with. We can have we 329 00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:49.240 can very easily say who we are with the people in the coral shirts. 330 00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:52.440 Peace, come over and talk to the folks in the coral shirts. So 331 00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:56.720 I wanted to mention that, Yeah, um, and so as much as 332 00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:00.119 it depends on you, as I was thinking about that great verse that you 333 00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:04.920 brought up, but um, I know that I need to behave the way 334 00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:12.200 that Scripture tells me to behave, And I have to trust that God is 335 00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:18.599 going to iron out whatever needs to be ironed out, and he knows that 336 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:22.440 they're there. I have to keep remembering that He knows that that other group 337 00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:29.000 is there. He could have had them have a um, a major detour, 338 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:33.079 or a flat tire or whatever where they would not show up. And 339 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:41.640 I think sometimes we can learn and develop in ourselves, uh through some of 340 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:48.440 these sorts of obstacles that we face. Are we going to respond in the 341 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:52.680 flesh? Are we going to respond with anger? Are we going to respond 342 00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:57.319 by creating division? Or are we going to do the best that we can 343 00:24:57.400 --> 00:25:03.720 before God to spond in the way that God would have us respond? And 344 00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:08.079 and of course that that's what we desire to do. Some of some of 345 00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:12.559 the teams, when they face this, will have as our team did, 346 00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:18.400 the use of amplified sound. We do have a microphone, and because of 347 00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:22.480 the way that the laws are set up, we had the use of that 348 00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:26.839 microphone in this other group did not. And one of the questions that my 349 00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:32.680 counselor asked me was is it okay for me to go ahead and speak over 350 00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:37.160 them? They were not stopping, they were not ceasing for a second from 351 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:41.279 speaking with all this anger. But we knew we could be heard over them 352 00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:45.960 with the microphone, and she said, can I should I, and I 353 00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:49.640 I recommended that she should, and that may or may not have been correct. 354 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:55.559 I don't know. There was a saved baby that day who came after 355 00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:59.400 the other group left. Yeah, praise God for that. But I I 356 00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:03.960 think if you are able not in a shouting match, if they if it 357 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:07.400 had just been the voices and us trying to scream louder than them, no, 358 00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:10.400 I probably would have said, no, just move up the street, 359 00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:14.079 try to stop cars before they even get there. But since we did have 360 00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:17.920 that tool and we didn't have to yell, we could speak in a quiet 361 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:21.839 voice but over the microphone, and we could still be heard over the angry 362 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:26.839 other group. I did recommend that that she do that. Yeah. Yeah, 363 00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:30.400 it's kind of strange. And I don't know if you have this in 364 00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:33.319 the article, but one of the one of the fallouts, one of the 365 00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:40.799 positive effects of this is that our pro abortion opposition and seeing the differences, 366 00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:44.160 and I've actually told them this all along, I've said, you might not 367 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:47.160 like us being out here. But I can promise you someone's going to be 368 00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:49.279 out here as long as there's killing babies, you should be glad that it's 369 00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:52.559 us and not some other group. Yeah, And I think they got a 370 00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:56.599 little taste of that the other they did. And I think they even saw 371 00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:00.480 that and communicated that to our team that was out there. It's like, 372 00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:03.759 you guys are a lot different than them, right. They were even making 373 00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:07.519 they were even setting themselves up and everything so that our team could call out 374 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:11.880 more effectively, and they would they would tell her, you go ahead, 375 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:18.200 you talk now, and so uh so it it did work in a funny 376 00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:22.920 way. In these pro abortion opposition are people that we pray for and we 377 00:27:23.079 --> 00:27:27.400 desire them to come to the Lord. And what they did see that day, 378 00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:33.200 I think was the difference between the wrath maybe not of God, but 379 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:37.079 but they saw wrath and anger. It was the indignation of man. It 380 00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:41.960 was the Bible says the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God. 381 00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:45.400 And what they saw was the anger of man out there on display from 382 00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:48.640 those street screechers. And then they saw the actual I mean, we should 383 00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:53.079 be angry at the sin of abortion, and uh but it's an anger. 384 00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:57.319 If it isn't anger at all, that's baptized in the love of God, 385 00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:00.480 right, Yeah, And I think that that what they saw. I think 386 00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:04.839 that that's what they saw, is they saw the love of Christ in action, 387 00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:10.759 in the tone, in the offers, in the language in Um, 388 00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:15.720 not the name calling. Nothing we did. Nothing, our team did changed 389 00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:19.160 like they did what they always They're trained to do what the Bible says we 390 00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:23.000 should be doing. UM. I want to mention a scripture. And I 391 00:28:23.079 --> 00:28:27.119 don't know how many times I've mentioned this scripture in this podcast. UM, 392 00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:30.359 but you can never mention the scripture too much. But I think it's an 393 00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:36.400 applicable scripture. And again, I have had this this experience before. I've 394 00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:41.079 had plenty of times where people show up and they just do things way over 395 00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:44.839 the top. It's in the flesh. It doesn't produce the righteousness of God. 396 00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:48.319 And when I've been able to talk with them, I think this scripture 397 00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:52.319 has really helped because with these folks, these are the folks that you know, 398 00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:56.839 a lot of times carry around the biggest King James Bible you can get 399 00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:59.279 on the face of the planet, right, and they waved the thing around 400 00:28:59.319 --> 00:29:03.880 like it's you know, it's it's their salvation whenever. Really, Jesus is 401 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:07.319 our salvation, right, And that the bigger the Bible you have doesn't doesn't 402 00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:11.680 mean the more righteous you are. But some of these folks think that that's 403 00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:15.680 the case. And so I've reasoned with them from the scriptures, because to 404 00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:18.720 me, again, that's the foundation of what we do. It's the Bible. 405 00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:22.839 It's not my feelings. It's not what's effective, it's not what society 406 00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:26.240 says or anything. It's what does the scripture say. And so when I've 407 00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:29.279 been able to have a conversation with folks like this, I opened up this 408 00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:34.319 scripture and Second Timothy chapter two. This is Paul speaking with his understudy Timothy 409 00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:37.240 and Second Timothy chapter two, verse two, and it says, and the 410 00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:41.400 servant of the Lord must not quarrel, but be gentle to all able to 411 00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:47.079 teach, patient in humility, correcting those who are in opposition. If perhaps 412 00:29:47.079 --> 00:29:49.599 God will grant them repentance so that they may know the truth, and that 413 00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:53.920 they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having 414 00:29:55.119 --> 00:29:59.400 been taken captive by him to do his will. And so I'm talking to 415 00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:02.039 these people that are again are doing things over the top there, you know, 416 00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:06.039 screeching rather than preaching and just out there in the flesh and helping them 417 00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:08.200 to understand the Bible says what you're doing is actually not the way the servant 418 00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:12.000 the Lord conducts himself. All you're doing is arguing. All you're out here 419 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:18.079 doing is gelling, hurling insults. You're doing exactly what this scripture says a 420 00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:22.440 servant the Lord should not be doing. And so you need to correct that. 421 00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:25.720 And this is why we don't like you being out here is because you're 422 00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:30.440 not you're not honoring Jesus in the way that you're conducting yourself. Now I 423 00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.240 might come a little harsher than that, or I might come a little softer 424 00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:36.839 than that, based on how the relationship is and based on if they're willing 425 00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:40.000 to hear me or not. But I have seen that be effective. And 426 00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:44.880 actually the Lord helped me with that scripture because it's pretty much a direct like 427 00:30:45.559 --> 00:30:48.319 correlation with what we're doing. This is how the servant the Lord should conduct 428 00:30:48.319 --> 00:30:52.880 themselves. And um so I think again, looking at the scriptures and letting 429 00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:57.079 the scripture be the standard is probably the mode, well not probably definitely the 430 00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:02.839 most important thing for us and hopefully to influence people that are out there, 431 00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:07.079 pro life people out there causing problems. Yeah. So, I don't know 432 00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:10.839 if there are any other things that you wanted to cover, but I think 433 00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:14.799 we're pretty much at the end of this episode and ready to wrap it up. 434 00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:18.440 Anything you want to say in closing, Um, the the only scripture 435 00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:22.039 that that I wanted to pull out is from Second Chronicles, which I closed 436 00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:26.799 the article with because it's always such a helpful scripture for me. Um. 437 00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:30.680 Nor do we know what to do, but our eyes are on you as 438 00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:36.279 as the writer is speaking to God. When when the horde comes upon us, 439 00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:40.519 when when there's opposition, we often don't know what to do, but 440 00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:44.440 just keep your eyes on Jesus and be sure that that He is your focus 441 00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:48.559 and and not your flesh. Yeah, yeah, definitely in those times, 442 00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:52.880 those are times to be lifting up your prayer to the Lord God. I'm 443 00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:56.079 surrounded. It seems like the pro life people are against me. It seems 444 00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:59.400 like the pro abortion people against me. The women going into the abortion clinic 445 00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:01.400 are yelling at me. It's like, but the Bible says, if God 446 00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:04.960 is for us, who can be against us and listen. If you guys, 447 00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:08.319 heart is to obey God and to do things according to His word. 448 00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:13.000 God is for you, so who can be against you? Right, even 449 00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:15.599 if the world is against you, God is for you. So I just 450 00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:17.599 want you guys to know, in the midst of opposition, in the midst 451 00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:21.279 of issues that come up out there at the abortion center, this is a 452 00:32:21.319 --> 00:32:23.880 battle. But God's fighting this battle with you, and we appreciate what you 453 00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:27.720 guys are doing. We would love for you to reach out to us if 454 00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:30.920 we can offer any encouragement. You can reach out to meet Daniel at love 455 00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:35.319 life dot org and reach her Vicky with a y at love life dot org. 456 00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:37.160 We'd love to hear from you, and also we'd love for you guys 457 00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:40.319 to leave us a review, share this podcast, and until next time. 458 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:52.319 God bless God, bless you. Give me out love for love, give 459 00:32:52.440 --> 00:33:06.519 me our love for gratitude. I'm it will cost me my life. Nothing's 460 00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:17.200 too precious. Since I met you, M