Helping Pregnant Women Who Are Victims of Domestic Abuse

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:06.440 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me, Lord, 2 00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:10.910 I am yours. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. This 3 00:00:11.070 --> 00:00:14.630 episode we talk about how to help a mother who's in a domestic abuse situation 4 00:00:15.070 --> 00:00:18.469 get out of that circumstance. Join us as we look at this biblically and 5 00:00:18.589 --> 00:00:37.369 practically. Lord, I felt show passish touch your welcome to the Gospel Center 6 00:00:37.450 --> 00:00:41.210 pro life podcast. Appreciate you, guys, joining us and we're going to 7 00:00:41.289 --> 00:00:45.770 jump right into our subject today and it's a subject that we've just recently. 8 00:00:45.890 --> 00:00:49.130 It's not that we've recently faced it, but it's just we've recently honed in 9 00:00:49.250 --> 00:00:51.560 on this subject right, and it has to do, of course, with 10 00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:55.759 sidewalk counseling. It has to do with what we call hard cases. So 11 00:00:55.880 --> 00:00:59.600 it's beyond dealing with a mom in you know, all of them. To 12 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:02.520 these mothers, of course our hard cases, but to us there's some like 13 00:01:02.759 --> 00:01:06.269 next level situations that we deal with right, like the health of the mother 14 00:01:06.430 --> 00:01:10.909 is at risk, the baby has some kind of fetal abnormality, and then 15 00:01:11.030 --> 00:01:15.230 this situation, which is domestic abuse and domestic violence. It's another one of 16 00:01:15.269 --> 00:01:19.299 those hard cases. We do trainings here in Charlotte we train our sidewalk counselors 17 00:01:19.739 --> 00:01:23.340 and we sort of start with service level stuff, foundational stuff, and then 18 00:01:23.379 --> 00:01:26.299 we do a second training and that's what we're really focus on the hard cases 19 00:01:26.540 --> 00:01:30.340 and we really haven't focused on this particular hard case. But I think with 20 00:01:30.459 --> 00:01:34.569 some of the information that we've gotten now in some of the interactions that we 21 00:01:34.689 --> 00:01:38.689 had recently with MOMS coming to the abortion center, we understand we need to 22 00:01:38.810 --> 00:01:41.250 focus in on this. This is a this is a big issue. Some 23 00:01:41.370 --> 00:01:46.250 of the statistics you've dug up really do help us understand how big of an 24 00:01:46.290 --> 00:01:49.519 issue this really is right and so I want you to go ahead and jump 25 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:53.840 in with some of the statistics, some of the situations. Okay, but 26 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:57.000 first why are we covering this? You've dealt recently with some women that have 27 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:00.359 had this. Yeah, I've had three cases in the past few days of 28 00:02:00.469 --> 00:02:05.310 domestic violence where I knew it was domestic violence. They told me. I've 29 00:02:05.349 --> 00:02:07.750 probably had many, many cases in the past and never knew. It's a 30 00:02:07.870 --> 00:02:12.830 deep, dark secret, very difficult for the women to leave the situation. 31 00:02:13.189 --> 00:02:19.060 Fear is overwhelming and it the woman I talked to today said that the guy 32 00:02:19.379 --> 00:02:23.620 tried to shoot her. Well, so, I mean it's it's a very 33 00:02:23.659 --> 00:02:29.500 serious issue and we need to know how to deal with it because, I 34 00:02:29.620 --> 00:02:34.129 will be very honest, some of the strategies I've used in the past actually 35 00:02:34.210 --> 00:02:38.650 probably put those women in increased danger and I had no idea. And I'm 36 00:02:38.689 --> 00:02:42.530 sure I'm not alone. I'm sure that there are other people who have not 37 00:02:42.729 --> 00:02:47.520 really studied domestic violence, but they're, like me, trained in dealing with 38 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:55.199 abortion, determined women, but not with a really great understanding of the mindset 39 00:02:55.240 --> 00:03:00.229 and what's involved in an in domestic violence and in how to best up those 40 00:03:00.270 --> 00:03:06.830 women out of a domestic violent situation. Sure. So this was really valuable, 41 00:03:06.909 --> 00:03:12.110 I think, for me in learning, looking over the research and finding 42 00:03:12.150 --> 00:03:16.780 out some facts about domestic violence and then working through some strategies and that we 43 00:03:16.860 --> 00:03:22.020 could impart to other sidewalk cancers. Yeah, so we've done in the past. 44 00:03:23.099 --> 00:03:24.099 I believe we did a podcast about it, but I know we have 45 00:03:24.180 --> 00:03:30.289 an article out on the sidewalks for life website dealing with hardcases in the situation 46 00:03:30.490 --> 00:03:32.490 of rape, and you actually did a training video about that. That's on 47 00:03:32.530 --> 00:03:36.490 the sidewalks for life. So yes, we're also going to put an article 48 00:03:36.490 --> 00:03:39.370 about this out on the sidewalk for life website to help equip you who are 49 00:03:39.370 --> 00:03:43.319 out there on the sidewalk to deal with these hard cases. So hopefully, 50 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:46.479 as we dive into this podcast, you'll be able to get this information, 51 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:50.199 you'll be able to apply it out there on the sidewalk or maybe if you're 52 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:53.800 working in a pregnancy center. I'm sure in pregnancy centers I know they're encountering 53 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:55.990 these sort of situations. So how do we deal with these situations? What 54 00:03:57.069 --> 00:04:00.069 are some of the statistics that helps us to know the numbers in order to 55 00:04:00.110 --> 00:04:01.789 know the magnitude of the problem so that we can understand this is a problem 56 00:04:01.830 --> 00:04:04.629 we need to address right. So you've written an article. We're going to 57 00:04:04.710 --> 00:04:08.550 throw it out on the sidewalks for life websites. You guys can access that. 58 00:04:08.629 --> 00:04:11.060 But stick with us in this podcast because there's going to be some important 59 00:04:11.099 --> 00:04:14.180 principles, some stuff that I've learned, some stuff that you've learned, thanky, 60 00:04:14.300 --> 00:04:15.860 yeah, and some stuff that hopefully we can teach you guys. Yeah, 61 00:04:16.139 --> 00:04:19.740 to show you the enormity of the problem. Some of the studies indicate 62 00:04:19.819 --> 00:04:25.730 that more than a third of women who aboard or in a domestic abuse situation. 63 00:04:26.089 --> 00:04:28.569 That's a pretty stackering number. It is. When you told me that 64 00:04:28.730 --> 00:04:34.209 statistic I was pretty amazed that this is a massive problem. Yeah, and 65 00:04:35.009 --> 00:04:39.879 I know that, even though it's not a situation that I've been cued in 66 00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:43.120 on, like, probably more and more, as I'm paying attention to some 67 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:46.759 of the things that you're sharing, I'm going to recognize some of these markers 68 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:49.759 more and more right and I'm going to see it's like this problem going on 69 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:54.269 under the surface and when you scratch that surface you begin to see, Oh 70 00:04:54.430 --> 00:04:58.709 wow, that's right, and it's not just an academic understanding that Oh good, 71 00:04:58.750 --> 00:05:01.230 now we know how many people, like the nineteen are here are domestic 72 00:05:01.269 --> 00:05:05.509 abuse, but it's it will change how we interact. It should based on, 73 00:05:05.670 --> 00:05:09.779 I think, based Apace time. Well, I discovered anyway, and 74 00:05:10.100 --> 00:05:14.500 what the research shows, that they're some things that that we can do that 75 00:05:14.579 --> 00:05:19.540 are very counterproductive to that woman's safety and to trying to help that relationship to 76 00:05:19.579 --> 00:05:26.569 become a healthy relationship. Yeah, and I think also these situations where we're 77 00:05:26.569 --> 00:05:31.649 talking about. You know, we did a podcast months and months and months 78 00:05:31.649 --> 00:05:36.120 ago about women that come to abortion clinics are not victims, right, and 79 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:41.240 that's true. They're not victims. That baby is the victim. But there 80 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:46.040 are situations in which women are victims of other circumstances. It's right. We 81 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:48.120 need to understand that. We need to meet them where they're at. Never 82 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:54.470 justifying abortion. Abortion is never the solution to domestic abuse, domestic violence, 83 00:05:55.069 --> 00:05:59.110 to sex trafficking. Yes, we'll do a podcast, hopefully not too long, 84 00:05:59.790 --> 00:06:03.110 a podcast about that because those situations, just like domestic abuse domestic violence 85 00:06:03.149 --> 00:06:06.540 situations, a lot of times the abuse are us as abortion as a coverup. 86 00:06:08.019 --> 00:06:12.339 Same thing with sex trafficking, right, the trafficker uses abortion as a 87 00:06:12.420 --> 00:06:15.899 cover up and that's been well documented. Ye, so we'll touch on that 88 00:06:15.060 --> 00:06:18.449 here. But the point of this is that if we are cued into these 89 00:06:18.490 --> 00:06:21.730 situations, their realities, there are women that are going into that abortion center 90 00:06:21.810 --> 00:06:27.970 that may not outwardly appear to be victims of domestic abuse and domestic violence. 91 00:06:28.569 --> 00:06:30.930 There are many that are. In the statistic that you're going to share kind 92 00:06:30.970 --> 00:06:34.680 of helps that or some of these statistics, and that one third statistic, 93 00:06:34.839 --> 00:06:41.199 one third of women that are having abortions, yeah, are in these situations. 94 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:45.800 Is a staggering statistic. Yes, you from what the statistics tell us, 95 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:48.790 it's one third of every of all women will have an abortion right. 96 00:06:48.910 --> 00:06:51.910 So if you think about that, one third of one third. So I 97 00:06:51.990 --> 00:06:58.389 mean staggering number of people that are affected by domestic violence and domestic abuse and 98 00:06:58.550 --> 00:07:01.019 we need to understand that. These are some of these women were encountering out 99 00:07:01.019 --> 00:07:04.699 the abortion center are in these situations and we need to understand that. So 100 00:07:05.019 --> 00:07:11.540 hop into some more of what you get there. So okay, what we'll 101 00:07:11.579 --> 00:07:14.779 go right into some of these statistics. And all right, there's no doubt 102 00:07:14.779 --> 00:07:17.730 that the issue of abortion and domestic violence are linked. Yeah, you know, 103 00:07:17.850 --> 00:07:23.170 a third of the women are involved in domestic violence. So approximately five 104 00:07:23.410 --> 00:07:28.769 percent of US women have had an intimate partner who tried to force sexual activity 105 00:07:28.810 --> 00:07:34.079 that would result in an unwanted pregnancy on them in their lifetime. Estimates of 106 00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:40.519 domestic violence and abortion patients range from twelve to thirty five percent, and that 107 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:48.110 includes sexual, psych psychological and physical abuse. The results that indicate a positive 108 00:07:48.149 --> 00:07:54.589 relationship between physical violence and the number of abortions that a woman has had. 109 00:07:54.750 --> 00:07:59.379 In other words, the the more abortions a single woman has had, the 110 00:07:59.579 --> 00:08:05.339 more likely and the increased incidence there is of domestic abuse, and we see 111 00:08:05.459 --> 00:08:09.740 that all the time out of the abortion center, that women have had multiple 112 00:08:09.779 --> 00:08:13.689 abortions. So it's actually rare to come across someone who's only had one. 113 00:08:13.689 --> 00:08:18.529 Yeah, honestly, so that, given what this research is saying, there's 114 00:08:18.569 --> 00:08:24.209 a pretty good likelihood you see a woman who's had eight abortions, she could 115 00:08:24.250 --> 00:08:26.959 be that's that's something to keep your eye open. This could be someone who 116 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:35.399 is a victim of domestic abuse. Women seeking an abortion are more likely, 117 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:39.720 up to three times more likely, to have experienced domestic abuse than women who 118 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:43.590 continue with their pregnancies. Okay, so just by the very fact that they're 119 00:08:43.629 --> 00:08:50.909 they're having an abortion, that tells you right away the likelihood of abuse is 120 00:08:50.149 --> 00:08:58.419 pretty high in in these women. Let's see here. This is interesting. 121 00:08:58.059 --> 00:09:01.419 Unlike pregnant women, who are going to be receiving Prenato Care, you know, 122 00:09:01.940 --> 00:09:07.179 twice a month, sometimes even more, with with a doctor, so 123 00:09:07.259 --> 00:09:11.289 they're seeing a medical professional on a regular basis and so there's accountability. They 124 00:09:11.370 --> 00:09:16.769 have that opportunity to talk to the doctor and say hey, the doctor will 125 00:09:16.769 --> 00:09:20.690 pick up on clues. Yeah, and can maybe exposed sexual abuse, but 126 00:09:20.809 --> 00:09:24.679 in a woman who has an abortion, that's not true. Yeah, she 127 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:30.639 is not having that regular medical visit by someone who might recognize the signs, 128 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:35.039 and so the sexual abuse goes on and on and on. Yeah, and 129 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:37.799 that goes back to that. You know, these two things tied together, 130 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:43.389 just like sex trafficking and abortion. Domestic of abuse and domestic violence tied together 131 00:09:43.429 --> 00:09:48.669 with abortion in that the abusers are using abortion as a cover up. Is 132 00:09:48.750 --> 00:09:54.500 that same dynamic? Abortions not a solution to a problem? Yeah, it's 133 00:09:54.019 --> 00:09:58.299 in addition to the current problem that's going on. What I found in the 134 00:09:58.460 --> 00:10:01.539 lady that I spoke with a couple of days ago, and this is true 135 00:10:01.580 --> 00:10:05.940 of many, many victims of domestic abuse, they are offering mirroring what they 136 00:10:05.940 --> 00:10:11.610 saw growing up. Yeah, they're not only the men are becoming abusers because 137 00:10:11.649 --> 00:10:20.090 they saw their father abuse, but the women are seeking on some crazy psychological, 138 00:10:20.289 --> 00:10:26.600 I don't quite understand it, level, they're seeking people who are abusers. 139 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:31.240 That's one of those dynamics we're you're you're comforted almost by I don't even 140 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:35.080 know how else to say it, but it's what you're used to, it's 141 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:39.029 what you know and it's a sad reality. Now, in all of what 142 00:10:39.110 --> 00:10:43.029 we're talking about, we never leave God out of the equation. God can 143 00:10:43.110 --> 00:10:48.909 intervene and God will intervene if, if people surrender to him, even these 144 00:10:48.950 --> 00:10:52.059 abusers can ultimately get saved and come to the Lord and confess their sin and 145 00:10:52.220 --> 00:10:58.740 all up to their to their crimes. So God is in these equations and 146 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:01.379 God, of course, in all of our conversations with a woman at an 147 00:11:01.419 --> 00:11:07.169 abortion center who's in a domestic abuse situation, we're bringing God into the equation. 148 00:11:07.529 --> 00:11:13.210 God is good. Your abuser is not a representative of the Lord. 149 00:11:13.289 --> 00:11:16.409 Your father, maybe her father, was abuse of also, because that can 150 00:11:16.450 --> 00:11:18.000 be it's like this, this crazy cycle. So kind. He's not a 151 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:22.159 representation of the Lord. The Lord is not like that, right. The 152 00:11:22.279 --> 00:11:24.960 Lord Is Merciful and Gracious, and so we're always bringing the gracious truths of 153 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:28.639 God's Word to bear in these situations. And I will tell you, sometimes 154 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:35.269 that is difficult because they have known nothing else. They have only known abuse 155 00:11:35.350 --> 00:11:39.509 at the hands of those who were supposed to protect them. Yeah, and 156 00:11:39.990 --> 00:11:46.230 for that they're probably the hardest ones in my experience to counsel, because when 157 00:11:46.269 --> 00:11:48.980 you talk about the goodness of God, they will flat out say not in 158 00:11:50.059 --> 00:11:54.139 my life, I haven't seen it. Yeah, and so I don't say 159 00:11:54.179 --> 00:11:58.820 that to discourage us, but to say dig deep and and and figure out 160 00:11:58.139 --> 00:12:01.730 how you can respond in a biblical way to a statement like that, because 161 00:12:01.730 --> 00:12:07.610 it is not uncommon. Yeah, I hear it a lot. So this 162 00:12:07.769 --> 00:12:15.330 is a really important one. Elective pregnancy termination, abortion among women with sexual 163 00:12:15.330 --> 00:12:22.960 abuse was associated with sexual assault, lack of control over contraceptive choices and coercive 164 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:28.480 decision making. And that coercive decision making is really, really an important thing 165 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:35.230 to think about and dwell upon, because these women are being coerced not only 166 00:12:35.350 --> 00:12:39.669 in whether to a board or not, but in every choice in life. 167 00:12:39.830 --> 00:12:43.230 Yeah, to the point where they no longer are making choices, they are 168 00:12:43.230 --> 00:12:48.700 letting someone else make the choice for them. And I say that and and 169 00:12:50.019 --> 00:12:54.500 emphasize it because the last thing we want to do is to play into that. 170 00:12:54.940 --> 00:12:58.500 We don't want to be seen as a coercive force. Yeah, and 171 00:12:58.570 --> 00:13:01.450 so I'm going to talk later on when we get into strategies, about how 172 00:13:01.570 --> 00:13:05.289 we can ensure that that we are not. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, 173 00:13:05.289 --> 00:13:09.649 we don't want to step into the role of the abuser ourselves. And be 174 00:13:09.929 --> 00:13:15.879 coercive and manipulative, because a lot of these abuse situations are, you know, 175 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:20.440 these these men are manipulators right, and they're doing as you mentioned before, 176 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:24.080 it's not just physical abuse. Some of these situations is not physical abuse 177 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:28.950 at all, but it's emotional right abuse, mental abuse, which can be 178 00:13:30.110 --> 00:13:33.149 sometimes even worse. Yeah, some that situte. Definitely so. And the 179 00:13:33.269 --> 00:13:41.620 women who had not informed their partner about the abortion were three times more likely 180 00:13:41.659 --> 00:13:45.940 to be victims of abuse then women who did inform their partner. And again, 181 00:13:45.980 --> 00:13:50.179 that's a really important thing to know, because often times a woman will 182 00:13:50.179 --> 00:13:52.299 drive into the abortion center and the man will come over and talk to us 183 00:13:52.340 --> 00:13:56.450 and say, I had no idea this was an abortion center. Yeah, 184 00:13:56.610 --> 00:14:01.169 and we have always, at least I have usually felt like, oh, 185 00:14:01.250 --> 00:14:03.129 the poor guy, and well, you know I mean, I don't, 186 00:14:03.129 --> 00:14:07.649 yeah, I don't say what a creep that woman is, but I feel 187 00:14:07.889 --> 00:14:11.240 bad for the guy and I feel I feel harsher towards the woman, when 188 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:16.720 in fact that could be a tip off that that woman is in an emotionally 189 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:24.590 or physically abusive relationship. She sees the abortion as the only way to escape 190 00:14:24.110 --> 00:14:30.389 this, this terrible life, that that she doesn't know how to escape and 191 00:14:30.590 --> 00:14:33.509 she knows that if she has this child, not only is she now further 192 00:14:33.710 --> 00:14:41.179 tied to this man, but the statistics also show that abusers use the children 193 00:14:43.059 --> 00:14:46.899 to further control the woman, threatening the woman with, you know, the 194 00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:50.659 safety of the children or whatever, but they also abused the children right often. 195 00:14:50.779 --> 00:14:54.370 Yeah, I know when I encounter these situations as a man, maybe 196 00:14:54.450 --> 00:14:58.690 it's a little different. Definitely is a little different from me when I'm talking 197 00:14:58.730 --> 00:15:01.009 to another man and who comes over to me and tells me, you know, 198 00:15:01.090 --> 00:15:05.129 I don't want her to have the abortion. If it was up to 199 00:15:05.210 --> 00:15:07.320 me, she wouldn't have the abortion. I like to actually dig a little 200 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:11.440 deeper in that. Yeah, because what I've discovered is a lot of times 201 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:16.600 those words are only really a fig leaf, a covering that he uses to 202 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:20.990 actually take the guilt of the abortion and what he's feeling, because he's feeling 203 00:15:22.029 --> 00:15:26.549 guilt, even though he might be a total dirt bag right, he's feeling 204 00:15:26.590 --> 00:15:28.990 guilty. He's taking that guilt and put an all off on her when in 205 00:15:30.110 --> 00:15:31.990 reality, if I dig a little deeper, I find it. Well, 206 00:15:33.070 --> 00:15:35.899 he drove her to the abortion clinic, right, he paid for the abortion. 207 00:15:35.419 --> 00:15:39.059 So He's trying to tell me and trying to make me believe that he 208 00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:43.179 doesn't want her to have the abortion, and yet he's the one who drove 209 00:15:43.220 --> 00:15:46.259 her here and paid for it. Okay, yeah, you're communicating something. 210 00:15:46.659 --> 00:15:50.570 These are mixed messages, buddy. Right, you need to own up to 211 00:15:50.649 --> 00:15:54.769 your part in this thing, and I think it is sort of that dynamic 212 00:15:54.889 --> 00:15:58.730 going on. There's just manipulation in this control so that now he's absolved of 213 00:15:58.809 --> 00:16:03.809 the guilt of the whole thing and then later on he can use his his 214 00:16:03.250 --> 00:16:07.639 manipulative, abusive power over her and Lord the abortion over her and use it 215 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:11.879 as more ammunition to be more abusive toward her. Right. So it's a 216 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.679 really vicious cycle and it's a really deceptive way and it's a horrible thing to 217 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:19.909 do to another human being. It is, and it's from what my research 218 00:16:21.350 --> 00:16:26.909 and then my subsequent conversation with a domestic violence program told me, was most 219 00:16:27.029 --> 00:16:37.139 women don't escape a domestic violence situation until really they have hit rock bottom, 220 00:16:37.179 --> 00:16:41.580 either their life is in danger they've been almost killed. That she said. 221 00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:47.450 They will leave six or seven times before they will finally leave for good. 222 00:16:48.370 --> 00:16:53.009 From so it's a very very hard issue to to deal with. And when 223 00:16:53.009 --> 00:16:57.009 you say she said that, you're referring to a lady that reached out here 224 00:16:57.090 --> 00:17:02.440 locally because coming looking for resources and dealing with the three MOMS that you're dealing 225 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:06.000 with now right that have come to the abortion clinic and they're in involved in 226 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:08.480 a domestic abuse situation. Yeah, your and this is what we do. 227 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:12.039 We encounter a situation, we try to dig for resources, we try to 228 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:18.109 find anything that we can, resources organizations to plug these women into, because 229 00:17:18.109 --> 00:17:22.069 we're not the experts on these subjects. Were not the experts on domestic abuse 230 00:17:22.109 --> 00:17:25.789 and stuff like that. So you've dug for some local resources. So talk 231 00:17:25.829 --> 00:17:29.430 a little bit about what you found out and some of the principles that the 232 00:17:29.470 --> 00:17:32.539 lady you talked to shared. That can help us. They can help you 233 00:17:32.619 --> 00:17:36.460 guys who are listening, to be more effective and more careful and dealing with 234 00:17:36.500 --> 00:17:38.500 these domestic abuse situations. Right. Well, I'll give you a little bit 235 00:17:38.539 --> 00:17:41.660 of a case study because it will help the women that I encountered a couple 236 00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:47.369 days ago, because it will help in understanding, as I was talking with 237 00:17:47.529 --> 00:17:52.930 the person from the our local press domestic violence resource. So the woman a 238 00:17:52.970 --> 00:17:56.809 couple of days now. Just do want to make make sure folks understand this 239 00:17:56.970 --> 00:18:00.400 is not an organization that's like part of our life network. This is a 240 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:04.759 secular organization anyway. So some of the principles you know. I don't say 241 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:07.119 take them with a grain of salt, but we need to process them through 242 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:11.039 the word of God. But these people have been involved in these situations more 243 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:15.910 often than we have and they've learned and there are some principles that I think 244 00:18:15.950 --> 00:18:18.750 we can glean from that. So that's just a little cave yet as we're 245 00:18:18.789 --> 00:18:21.789 talking about this guess, and that was the tension. As I was talking 246 00:18:21.910 --> 00:18:26.579 with her, she was very open that the woman has been remo she has 247 00:18:26.660 --> 00:18:30.660 felt a loss of control to such a degree in every area of her life 248 00:18:30.700 --> 00:18:36.740 that she no longer has taken control of anything. She is completely controlled by 249 00:18:36.859 --> 00:18:42.809 this abusive man, and the domestic violence person told me that one of the 250 00:18:42.930 --> 00:18:48.730 most important goals for them is to return control to the woman and she flat 251 00:18:48.849 --> 00:18:52.730 out told me we're not trained to deal with abortion. That's not what we're 252 00:18:52.769 --> 00:18:56.119 dealing with. We are trying. Our major focus is the safety of that 253 00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:02.160 woman and restoring to her what she has lost. That sense of control, 254 00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:06.519 and she was very honest. She said if that means that that woman is 255 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:12.509 going to take control and have an abortion, we are there to help her 256 00:19:14.230 --> 00:19:18.029 to regain control of her life. The safety of the baby is not our 257 00:19:18.150 --> 00:19:22.190 focus right. So, of course, to me that tells me all right, 258 00:19:22.309 --> 00:19:26.740 then there are, I don't know if I want to say dangers in 259 00:19:26.859 --> 00:19:32.339 referring them, sure, to a domestic finance program but there are things I'm 260 00:19:32.339 --> 00:19:37.539 going to want to be sure to impart to that woman right before I refer 261 00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:41.569 her, yeah, to that program and maybe we can talk about that a 262 00:19:41.650 --> 00:19:44.130 little bit later as we go into the stretch. Yeah, and maybe this 263 00:19:44.250 --> 00:19:47.250 is a point where I can just mentioned you guys who are listening. Maybe 264 00:19:47.289 --> 00:19:48.890 there is. We did a little bit of googling. Yeah, and we've 265 00:19:49.009 --> 00:19:53.599 looked for nationally some Christian organizations, because what we don't want to do is 266 00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:59.480 we don't want to refer a woman to a domestic abuse organization that's going to 267 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:03.440 maybe try to convince her to have an abortion. I mean, I certainly 268 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.559 don't want to do that when they don't want to be careful to in saying 269 00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:08.509 that, because the the woman I spoke with was very careful to say. 270 00:20:08.789 --> 00:20:12.630 It's not that we would convince them. Sure that's not their goal, but 271 00:20:12.789 --> 00:20:17.910 they do want to restore that loss of control and do in so doing, 272 00:20:18.349 --> 00:20:22.019 they may yet make a choice for abortion and they're not going to. It's 273 00:20:22.059 --> 00:20:26.980 not that they're supporting the choice for abortion, they're supporting the ability to take 274 00:20:27.140 --> 00:20:33.380 control of their choices and not have someone else controlling their choice right, and 275 00:20:33.500 --> 00:20:37.970 so they're taking, I guess, a neutral approach to abortion, which to 276 00:20:38.089 --> 00:20:42.369 me it's neutrality on the issue of abortion can be. Abortion is going to 277 00:20:42.369 --> 00:20:45.650 be destructive of that woman. It's not going to be helpful. So anyway, 278 00:20:45.650 --> 00:20:48.490 I mentioned that to say you guys who are listening, if you know 279 00:20:48.730 --> 00:20:55.240 of some national organizations that are solid Christian organizations that can deal with domestic abuse 280 00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:59.640 and domestic violent situations, please shoot me over an email. D Parks, 281 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.240 that cities for lifecom, Vicky V cussy organ cities for Lifecom, and just 282 00:21:03.390 --> 00:21:07.509 let us know. We'd like to connect with those organizations. Really we like 283 00:21:07.670 --> 00:21:10.910 to have that because we like to make a list of resources to meet these 284 00:21:10.950 --> 00:21:15.990 needs and if I can put a mom on the phone with the organization that 285 00:21:15.109 --> 00:21:19.140 can help talk her through and walk her through the situation. That's a Christian 286 00:21:19.140 --> 00:21:22.220 organization. I'm going to feel a lot better than just kind of throwing her 287 00:21:22.259 --> 00:21:26.619 over to some secular organization. Absolutely, we are a Gospel Centered Ministry and 288 00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:32.700 we absolutely would always prefer if we could connect the women with a Christian resource 289 00:21:32.859 --> 00:21:34.730 and when we can't and they need help, we do connect with seler. 290 00:21:34.769 --> 00:21:41.529 Yeah, absolutely, but this organization specifically provides emergency shelter at an undisclosed location. 291 00:21:41.970 --> 00:21:48.799 Okay, at but they're she said that they're they're housing requirements are they're 292 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:52.640 very stringent for the women who will meet the the requirements to go into that 293 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:57.519 program and it basically means that that woman is under imminent threat of thread of 294 00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:03.390 death right or or severe physical violence, which actually the women I spoke with 295 00:22:03.509 --> 00:22:07.109 today was. Yeah, she had been shot at by her boyfriend. Well, 296 00:22:07.470 --> 00:22:15.190 so they also provide seven hotline counseling and then resources that are specifically tailored 297 00:22:15.269 --> 00:22:19.539 to help the woman. They give strategies so that if the woman will not 298 00:22:19.700 --> 00:22:25.059 leave the situation, which, as she's said and statistics show, is rare, 299 00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:27.660 the for the women to finally leave takes a long time. It's rare, 300 00:22:29.140 --> 00:22:33.369 but they know the strategies that help the woman to diffuse an explosive situation 301 00:22:33.809 --> 00:22:37.210 and to stay safe. Yeah, and I can. I'm not sure I 302 00:22:37.410 --> 00:22:41.569 know those strategies. I'm sure I don't. So I even asked her, 303 00:22:41.569 --> 00:22:44.130 well, what could we tell the women? And she said, to tell 304 00:22:44.170 --> 00:22:47.720 you the truth, the absolute first, most important thing you need to do 305 00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:52.160 is get them the domestic violence twenty four hour hot line. She said the 306 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.119 people on that hot line are trained to deal with it. It is very 307 00:22:56.279 --> 00:23:03.150 complex, it's multilayered and you're not going to know in a ten minute or 308 00:23:03.190 --> 00:23:07.750 even an hour. Talk with me, what is what is the best thing 309 00:23:07.869 --> 00:23:11.230 to suggest to these women, other than connect with the hot line? Yeah, 310 00:23:11.390 --> 00:23:15.700 okay, so that was the first and most important thing, she said. 311 00:23:15.740 --> 00:23:19.980 Connect them with with the hotline. She said. A second thing that 312 00:23:21.220 --> 00:23:26.779 was really important was that the abuser has complete control over the woman's life. 313 00:23:26.410 --> 00:23:32.849 And if the abuser has control and is is still living with her or still 314 00:23:32.930 --> 00:23:37.049 in her life, which in many cases is the case, he will have 315 00:23:37.289 --> 00:23:41.400 access to her phone, he will read her text he will read her emails 316 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:49.319 and and he will monitor where she's going, who she seen, who she's 317 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:55.440 talking with. She said that is a given in a in the controlling atmosphere 318 00:23:55.599 --> 00:24:02.309 of a domestic violence situation, therefore, or giving your texting that woman after 319 00:24:02.390 --> 00:24:07.869 you've spoken with her could put her in more danger because if he perceives very 320 00:24:07.950 --> 00:24:15.980 important point, if the man perceives, the Abuser perceives any loss or lessening 321 00:24:15.500 --> 00:24:23.099 of his influence and control, he is more apt to become increasingly violent. 322 00:24:23.140 --> 00:24:29.410 Yeah, so what have I done? Every time I've sent a woman off 323 00:24:29.769 --> 00:24:32.930 with our list of resources and I'm going to sign her up for a mentorship 324 00:24:32.970 --> 00:24:36.529 program, I text her. I text you almost immediately, say how you 325 00:24:36.650 --> 00:24:40.599 do in and and then I'll text you off in that same night the next 326 00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:45.119 morning. And when I spoke with the the expert, she said don't do 327 00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:49.519 that. You, you are putting that woman in increased danger because he will 328 00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:55.829 find those text and he will take it out on her. Yeah, so 329 00:24:56.750 --> 00:25:00.269 one of the things she said that they do is they have the woman, 330 00:25:02.109 --> 00:25:06.750 give the woman the phone numbers that she needs to contact, write them down, 331 00:25:07.579 --> 00:25:11.740 make sure she has them and tell her when you were in a safe 332 00:25:11.819 --> 00:25:17.140 place with a secure phone, you call me. Okay, and that's really 333 00:25:17.339 --> 00:25:21.180 hard for me. Yeah, because I know that if a woman has chosen 334 00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:26.529 life. Those first forty eight hours are critical in sticking with that choice for 335 00:25:26.690 --> 00:25:33.170 life. But this woman, the expert said, the woman's safety is really 336 00:25:33.250 --> 00:25:37.079 in jeopardy if you're texting and calling her. Yeah, so that was a 337 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:45.559 really important tip, that that she said returning control as much as possible to 338 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:48.240 the victim of domestic violence. So as you're talking with them, think about 339 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:53.109 that. How do I give back control to this woman? We don't want 340 00:25:53.109 --> 00:25:59.349 to give back control in terms of saying it's okay to go have an abortion, 341 00:25:59.990 --> 00:26:02.950 but I as I was thinking through strategies which I think will deal with 342 00:26:03.380 --> 00:26:08.539 later, there are some things we can do that still allow us to do 343 00:26:08.700 --> 00:26:14.380 what we do and give our message, God's message, but have the woman 344 00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:19.849 still feel that it is in her control, not ours. Yeah, safe 345 00:26:19.930 --> 00:26:25.289 and secure housing is very difficult and very limited. We know that already, 346 00:26:25.329 --> 00:26:30.849 right, just in just a typical situation, not a domestic abuse situation. 347 00:26:30.450 --> 00:26:37.200 But if the abuser, if the abused woman, tries to leave the abuser, 348 00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:42.119 he will find her. Is basically the sad bottom line. Yeah, 349 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:48.549 and so the organization that I spoke with does not disclose their housing. It 350 00:26:48.789 --> 00:26:56.670 is it is undisclosed, secret housing that only the woman and her counselor through 351 00:26:56.710 --> 00:27:00.980 this organization, know about, so that the abuser is not tipped off where 352 00:27:02.059 --> 00:27:08.539 to find her. In most cases, it is very unwise to offer to 353 00:27:08.579 --> 00:27:15.579 drive the woman home or even to a safe place. If the abuser sees 354 00:27:15.700 --> 00:27:19.450 it, you have just increased her danger. Yeah, and I know we've 355 00:27:19.450 --> 00:27:27.049 driven women home many times because we know the man is really angry and we 356 00:27:27.250 --> 00:27:33.279 know the woman is afraid and we offer a ride home. And that is 357 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:38.319 not according to the expert. That is really foolish and dn't and even dangerous, 358 00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:41.319 not only to the woman, probably does. This is a violent human 359 00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:48.950 being. Yeah, who sees now this woman is exposing him and he's losing 360 00:27:48.069 --> 00:27:55.950 his control over her. So again, something I had never known or thought 361 00:27:55.990 --> 00:28:02.460 about, but I will now. And also, I think throughout the nation, 362 00:28:02.619 --> 00:28:04.900 I know the sidewark counselors that I interact with. There's some of the 363 00:28:06.099 --> 00:28:10.339 finest people on Earth, the most giving, the most generous people. I 364 00:28:10.539 --> 00:28:15.329 know and I hear over and over and over again stories of driving women to 365 00:28:15.490 --> 00:28:21.769 save places, to even the counselor's home, or driving them home. And 366 00:28:22.089 --> 00:28:26.769 now knowing, okay, a third of the women you interact with at least 367 00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:33.640 probably are victims of domestic abuse. That is probably not a wise thing for 368 00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:37.799 us to do. Yeah, not just for our safety but for the woman's 369 00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:45.589 safety. So thinking about how we interact with the man is very important to 370 00:28:47.990 --> 00:28:52.910 I. I've heard countless times and I've agreed with it. Step up, 371 00:28:52.150 --> 00:28:56.019 be a man. Yeah, you're a coward. I mean, I don't 372 00:28:56.019 --> 00:28:59.619 know if I we call them a coward, but kind of suggest that, 373 00:29:00.539 --> 00:29:03.980 you know, if not directly. So, think about it. You're facing 374 00:29:03.099 --> 00:29:10.730 a man who, being in control of that woman, is his. That's 375 00:29:11.009 --> 00:29:17.049 what he is feeding off of. And if, if there is an attack 376 00:29:17.490 --> 00:29:22.210 on him, imagine what that's doing to that mindset. Well, yeah, 377 00:29:22.009 --> 00:29:29.599 so we still have to do what we know God has called us to do 378 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.799 right, and that's, beyond a shadow of a doubt, bring God into 379 00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:41.390 the equation, share the Gospel. But now how do we do it with 380 00:29:41.750 --> 00:29:48.670 all this information? And at first I just sat home and thought, I 381 00:29:48.829 --> 00:29:52.380 have no idea. I felt I honestly the the my first response with this 382 00:29:52.539 --> 00:29:57.019 information was kind of to feel paralyzed. Yeah, that's somewhere I ended up, 383 00:29:59.019 --> 00:30:03.500 because God always got, always gives us great wisdom. Yeah, and 384 00:30:06.220 --> 00:30:11.410 you had started, or told me when we had started discussing this, about 385 00:30:11.410 --> 00:30:15.369 a biblical passage and I you know, honestly, I don't remember what it 386 00:30:15.609 --> 00:30:19.250 was. But if you come up with it, I remember thinking when you 387 00:30:19.329 --> 00:30:23.519 were talking about it it had to do with control and I remember thinking that's 388 00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:30.559 really a good passage to share with people in this situation. So if it 389 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:34.160 comes to you, okay, if it comes back to you mentioned because it 390 00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:37.710 comes back to my mind, I will share it. It was good. 391 00:30:37.789 --> 00:30:41.549 But there are something about yeah, there are. You do think you remember? 392 00:30:41.630 --> 00:30:44.029 I'm trying to think of the passes that you're talking about in particular. 393 00:30:44.269 --> 00:30:48.630 Well, so, so here's where we are. then. What do you 394 00:30:48.670 --> 00:30:53.380 do with all this? What are some key strategies or ideas in how we 395 00:30:53.500 --> 00:31:03.859 deal with the women and the men now that we suspect a domestic abuse situation? 396 00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:06.250 So you want to hear what I came up with and I'm sure you'll 397 00:31:06.289 --> 00:31:08.849 have you'll have some other one. So may you probably have got them all 398 00:31:08.930 --> 00:31:11.690 cover. They but listen. Well, we'll see. Okay. First of 399 00:31:11.769 --> 00:31:18.440 all, just think about it. If you're an abuser, are you content, 400 00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:25.720 joyful, your heart filled with peace? No, you probably pretty pretty 401 00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:30.480 miserable, pretty miserable human being, and remember that. Remember that this man, 402 00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:36.470 an abuser and the abused are people that are not healthy, right. 403 00:31:36.750 --> 00:31:42.910 They are not spiritually healthy, they're not emotionally healthy, and so know that, 404 00:31:44.710 --> 00:31:48.779 while it may be buried very deep in their psyche, they want out. 405 00:31:49.259 --> 00:31:55.700 No one wants to be an abuser. Many of them have lived abuse 406 00:31:56.140 --> 00:32:00.140 their whole life. This is all they know, an or I. I'm 407 00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:05.529 not going to discount that. There isn't evil, outright evil and demonic possession, 408 00:32:06.289 --> 00:32:09.650 but I think it helps to remember neither these people are in a place 409 00:32:09.650 --> 00:32:14.529 where they really want to be. Yeah, and what's The answer to that? 410 00:32:15.529 --> 00:32:19.279 That's bringing the Lord in his truth and to the equation, bringing a 411 00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:23.240 fact that God rescues and saves all who come to him. Yeah, yeah, 412 00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:29.839 so I thought the first thing would be to state facts. Yeah, 413 00:32:30.190 --> 00:32:37.750 be very careful about name calling, especially well into both both to the abuser 414 00:32:37.950 --> 00:32:40.509 and to the abuse. The the abused has had enough name calling to last 415 00:32:40.630 --> 00:32:45.700 for a lifetime. And the abuser is, we already know, of violent, 416 00:32:45.819 --> 00:32:52.180 controlling man, very immature, very unhealthy, dealing with loss of control 417 00:32:52.420 --> 00:32:58.890 and if he's hearing what he feels is challenges to who he is, in 418 00:32:58.970 --> 00:33:01.970 his control, you're probably going to make the situation worse. So if I 419 00:33:02.009 --> 00:33:06.369 call him a scumbag or her bag, I think I did that earlier, 420 00:33:06.609 --> 00:33:09.250 okay, but I still believe that men that abuse women are scumbag. Yeah, 421 00:33:09.410 --> 00:33:13.440 but I probably wouldn't call him that to his face, certainly in that 422 00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:16.240 scenario. Right. So what's your motivation, though? Is Your desire that 423 00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:20.839 that he goes home and beat her up? Obviously now we're not. Yeah. 424 00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:25.680 So what can we do that will be less likely to result in her 425 00:33:27.549 --> 00:33:30.630 being attacked? And sometimes I think that is going to mean that we're going 426 00:33:30.670 --> 00:33:34.990 to need to hold back on some of the stuff that we really feel, 427 00:33:35.029 --> 00:33:39.190 yeah, and believe in in how we deal with him. Yeah, because 428 00:33:39.190 --> 00:33:44.420 we want to make sure that, of course, we want to protect that 429 00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:47.900 baby, right, you know, because the scenario is at the abortion center, 430 00:33:49.539 --> 00:33:52.420 here's a man, here's a woman, it seems that maybe there's an 431 00:33:52.460 --> 00:33:55.210 abuse situation going on. We want to save that baby, we want to 432 00:33:55.250 --> 00:34:00.089 reach that woman and we care regardss of what other people say. We care 433 00:34:00.130 --> 00:34:04.170 about both that woman and that baby and we care about that man too. 434 00:34:04.329 --> 00:34:07.849 But as far as our primary objective. We want to want to say that 435 00:34:07.890 --> 00:34:10.639 baby, want to reach that mom and so I think, and you tell 436 00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:15.559 me if I'm wrong, I'm going to focus my conversation and my speech toward 437 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:17.519 her. I'm going to be as gracious as possible, of course, if 438 00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:22.039 I perceive that could be the situation, and I'm probably not going to say 439 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:25.510 which I might be inclined to say, but as in the conversation that we're 440 00:34:25.510 --> 00:34:30.230 having, I'm thinking I'm probably not going to say a if he's abusive, 441 00:34:30.710 --> 00:34:31.789 come over here, we can help you. I'm probably not going to call 442 00:34:31.829 --> 00:34:37.269 it out like that because it's probably not going to be helpful at all and 443 00:34:37.309 --> 00:34:40.820 it's probably going to make things worse. And I know I have caught that 444 00:34:40.940 --> 00:34:45.420 out before, or something similar to that. Maybe not that directly but similar, 445 00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:50.500 and now I I agree with you. I would not call that out. 446 00:34:50.539 --> 00:34:54.730 So state facts, facts about the humanity of the baby, facts about 447 00:34:55.090 --> 00:35:01.090 useful resources, facts about Biblical truth of the sanctity of human life. And 448 00:35:01.250 --> 00:35:06.849 the goal is, if you state the facts and the truth of the Gospel, 449 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:08.920 but in a factual manner, this is what the Bible says, this 450 00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:13.239 is what's true about the baby, this is what's true about the resources we 451 00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:17.159 can offer. You are giving the woman the ability, in the tools to 452 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:22.590 come to a conclusion on her own. First of all, you're not coercing 453 00:35:22.670 --> 00:35:23.989 her, you're just saying these are the facts. Yeah, and and, 454 00:35:24.269 --> 00:35:32.829 and you're giving the abuser and opportunity to hear some truth that he might not 455 00:35:32.989 --> 00:35:39.059 otherwise take in, such as the truth of God and God's clear desire for 456 00:35:39.219 --> 00:35:43.219 what a family is supposed to be. And I think that was the story 457 00:35:43.340 --> 00:35:45.260 that you told me that I can't remember. But about what a man is 458 00:35:45.420 --> 00:35:52.449 supposed to be and his yeah, well, that's efficians chapter five and it 459 00:35:52.730 --> 00:35:58.329 speaks of husband's love your wives, as Christ loves the church, and rather 460 00:35:58.610 --> 00:36:04.639 than Lording your power over her and abusing and manipulating her, you're supposed to 461 00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:07.639 lay your life down for her. That's what we're called to do. We're 462 00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:13.599 called rather than take advantage of women and children, were supposed to protect them. 463 00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:17.239 And the example here in if Hesians chapter five is of Christ. What 464 00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:21.710 did he do? He didn't abuse his church. He actually lays his life 465 00:36:21.789 --> 00:36:24.349 down for his church. That's the example. Love your wife is. Christ 466 00:36:24.510 --> 00:36:28.869 loves the church. This is, by the way, exactly this is what 467 00:36:29.110 --> 00:36:31.630 what you were saying earlier on that I thought this is perfect. Did the 468 00:36:31.829 --> 00:36:37.260 I think this chapter, these verses, they're not specifically targeting. Hey, 469 00:36:37.340 --> 00:36:42.340 you abuse her, control freak, you, you violent man. You're giving, 470 00:36:42.500 --> 00:36:46.059 right out of scripture, the truth of who Jesus was and what he 471 00:36:46.250 --> 00:36:50.650 commanded all men to be. Ye, right, yeah, absolutely, and 472 00:36:50.730 --> 00:36:53.449 that is the biblical truth. Right, and that is how, even though 473 00:36:53.650 --> 00:36:58.250 maybe society at large and other cultures and things like that, even people who 474 00:36:58.289 --> 00:37:04.079 claim to be Christian, have, over the years, made manhood and the 475 00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:08.079 authority that God gives us as men a license to abuse and take advantage of 476 00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:13.960 and manipulate and Lord their power over their their wives or the women that you 477 00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:17.150 know are supposedly under them. That's not the way the Bible views it. 478 00:37:17.670 --> 00:37:24.389 Leadership in a Biblical context is servant leadership, serving your wife, loving her, 479 00:37:24.469 --> 00:37:28.269 laying your life down for her. Now, I'm not going to go 480 00:37:28.550 --> 00:37:32.059 into a whole thing about leadership in the structure of family, but as far 481 00:37:32.139 --> 00:37:37.500 as God's words is God's Word is concerned, men are supposed to be leaders, 482 00:37:37.260 --> 00:37:42.579 but not tyrants and certainly not abusers, right, but those who lay 483 00:37:42.619 --> 00:37:45.210 their lives down for those who they're called to lead. Yeah, and I 484 00:37:45.409 --> 00:37:51.449 think that this would be a whole other podcast and not one necessarily that is 485 00:37:51.690 --> 00:37:59.719 our subject. Yeah, but the submission issue I can see being used easily, 486 00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:07.119 twisted, yeah, in a twisted and corrupted manner to support almost not 487 00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:12.440 a direct abuse, but some but feed into that abuse of mentality. Oh, 488 00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:16.590 absolutely. I mean abusers, people will use whatever means they can to 489 00:38:16.630 --> 00:38:21.670 manipulate people who use the word of God. They'll use whatever they know they 490 00:38:21.710 --> 00:38:24.269 can come up with to use. But God's word certainly is not in support 491 00:38:24.309 --> 00:38:28.820 of that sort of behavior. God's words against it. Again, husband's Love 492 00:38:28.940 --> 00:38:31.099 Your wives as Christ loves the church. Yeah, gave himself for her, 493 00:38:31.179 --> 00:38:35.699 so that that's a biblical reality. Yeah, and and the truth of scripture 494 00:38:35.860 --> 00:38:40.650 is that even to a man who is as despicable in many ways as as 495 00:38:40.809 --> 00:38:46.130 one who would abuse a woman or a child, even he can be reached 496 00:38:46.170 --> 00:38:50.130 by the power of scripture. Yeah, we and we can't forget that holy 497 00:38:50.210 --> 00:38:55.119 spirits work. That's right hearts and that's what's not in the secular domestic abuse 498 00:38:55.400 --> 00:39:00.559 programs. And so I'm not saying just hand these women over to these programs 499 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:05.400 and pray that all will be well. I think we have a at absolutely 500 00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:09.949 God ordained critical role to introduce the Gospel and I'm just suggesting maybe there's ways 501 00:39:09.989 --> 00:39:13.750 we could do it that might be a little bit different than we are right 502 00:39:13.869 --> 00:39:19.190 now in light of this information. solutely okay. The the second one we 503 00:39:19.269 --> 00:39:23.860 kind of touched on. Avoid accusatory or condemning language or named calling the counterproductive. 504 00:39:24.780 --> 00:39:29.659 Number three, if the woman has lied to the man about the facility 505 00:39:29.699 --> 00:39:34.820 being an abortion center, consider the possibility that she fears his anger and control 506 00:39:35.219 --> 00:39:38.530 and it's an abusive relationship, because it's going to alter how you speak to 507 00:39:38.650 --> 00:39:43.170 the two of them. Yeah, by the way, things may be different 508 00:39:43.449 --> 00:39:45.849 if the woman comes without the man or if the woman comes with the man. 509 00:39:45.929 --> 00:39:49.329 If she comes without the man, you're going to be able to really 510 00:39:49.409 --> 00:39:54.199 talk with her very specifically and and give her the important numbers and have her 511 00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:55.960 call you. If the man is there, you're going to have to be 512 00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:00.440 a whole lot more careful. Sure, given the link between abortion and domestic 513 00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:06.360 violence, I think it would be a great idea to add a direct question 514 00:40:06.679 --> 00:40:10.869 on any medical intake form. Are you the victim of physical abuse? Okay, 515 00:40:10.869 --> 00:40:15.670 so in particular you're talking about, you know if we're talking about mobile 516 00:40:15.710 --> 00:40:20.349 argnancy centers or like what we have here, the MOBILTERRA sound unit. Having 517 00:40:20.429 --> 00:40:23.619 that as a question. Yeah, it would be important and I think if 518 00:40:23.699 --> 00:40:28.980 we counsel women car side or on the sidewalk, it's to just be part 519 00:40:28.980 --> 00:40:32.539 of our regular questioning. Knowing a third of the women statistically or in domestic 520 00:40:32.579 --> 00:40:36.369 abuse, I think it should be one of the first things we ask if 521 00:40:36.409 --> 00:40:38.090 the man's not there, if the man is there, if you can get 522 00:40:38.130 --> 00:40:42.889 her alone and ask her privately. But are you in any danger? Does 523 00:40:43.010 --> 00:40:45.889 he hurt you? Yeah, is I think just be direct, be blunt 524 00:40:46.449 --> 00:40:52.320 and give them that opportunity to answer if they're ready at all to leave the 525 00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:57.360 relationship. Hopefully they will answer that. Look for opportunities to provide her with 526 00:40:57.400 --> 00:41:00.559 the domestic abuse hotline, but you've you got to try and do without the 527 00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:04.429 abuse are knowing. If we don't have it on our literature, it should 528 00:41:04.429 --> 00:41:08.550 be because if it's nestled in with a whole bunch of other resources, it's 529 00:41:08.550 --> 00:41:13.829 not going to red flag the abuser who might be looking at the resources. 530 00:41:13.989 --> 00:41:15.789 He might just be looking at, Oh look, there's all these resources, 531 00:41:16.309 --> 00:41:22.619 but if you include the domestic abuse hotline, she has hopefully access that an 532 00:41:22.659 --> 00:41:29.380 opportunity to call that okay. Empower both the man and the woman with a 533 00:41:29.500 --> 00:41:31.969 Godly vision of what a family can be. We talked about that a little 534 00:41:31.969 --> 00:41:37.369 bit from a biblical perspective, paying to positive picture of mutual submission, which 535 00:41:37.369 --> 00:41:39.969 is exactly what you talked about there, and I think that's one of the 536 00:41:40.289 --> 00:41:45.889 most important messages we can give them, because my heart hopes, my spirit 537 00:41:45.050 --> 00:41:49.519 hopes, that both of them are yearning, even though they don't know it, 538 00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:54.320 for a better, healthy relationship. Share the Gospel if they're showing any 539 00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:59.039 interest in listening to it, and share it to both of them if they're 540 00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:02.110 willing to listen to it. We know it's the only hope for true transformation. 541 00:42:04.190 --> 00:42:07.750 Be sure the woman has your first name and number so she can contact 542 00:42:07.789 --> 00:42:13.349 you if you're the counselor would not share any private information like a last name 543 00:42:13.349 --> 00:42:16.940 or an address, especially when there's a violent person in the equation. And 544 00:42:17.179 --> 00:42:22.059 that's just something to mentioned real quick. It's something we're very intentional about here 545 00:42:22.139 --> 00:42:27.940 in Charlotte is when we give out literature, we always have a personal contact 546 00:42:28.019 --> 00:42:31.210 number there and we have, you know, list, as you mentioned earlier, 547 00:42:31.449 --> 00:42:37.130 of resources, local pregnancy centers, things like that. But a personal 548 00:42:37.210 --> 00:42:40.369 contact number is important because of situations like this. When they can text us, 549 00:42:40.369 --> 00:42:43.889 they can reach back out to us. Now we do, in most 550 00:42:43.889 --> 00:42:46.119 situations try to get their number as well so that we can have a way 551 00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:50.239 to follow up with them, especially if they've chosen life. Right, we're 552 00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:52.880 going to try to get their phone number. Yeah, and these situations, 553 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:54.840 though, you're kind of leaving that ball in their court. Yeah, I 554 00:42:55.039 --> 00:42:59.269 mean you can try to get their number, but make it clear as it's 555 00:42:59.269 --> 00:43:01.829 safe to call, you run and according to the domestic violence hotline, it 556 00:43:01.989 --> 00:43:06.230 is not. They may think it is, but she said it's not. 557 00:43:06.550 --> 00:43:09.110 So be careful with that. Okay, if the woman has expressed fear for 558 00:43:09.190 --> 00:43:13.539 her life, for her safety, there is a time to call the police. 559 00:43:13.539 --> 00:43:15.900 Yeah, if the man is there. I did have to do that 560 00:43:16.019 --> 00:43:21.340 once. The man was was forcing her, pulling her, as she screaming 561 00:43:21.380 --> 00:43:24.179 and crying, into the abortion center. I did call the police and she 562 00:43:24.300 --> 00:43:29.730 actually told the police everything was okay, and that's what sometimes happened. Right. 563 00:43:29.769 --> 00:43:32.889 Yeah, do not drive the woman home, do not take her to 564 00:43:34.090 --> 00:43:37.369 your home. That's downright dangerous, dangerous for you, dangerous for her. 565 00:43:37.730 --> 00:43:45.079 Don't give her your your address or your last name. Pray, if prayer 566 00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:49.719 and the need for God to intervene is so important it all. It's, 567 00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:54.320 of course, always important, but it is really important in in this situation 568 00:43:54.559 --> 00:44:00.590 because there's so much that we can't do. Seek to diffuse anger, which 569 00:44:00.630 --> 00:44:02.750 is really important. It's easy to get in the flesh and get angry, 570 00:44:02.869 --> 00:44:07.590 especially when you see this kind of off right stuff going on, but it 571 00:44:07.789 --> 00:44:10.619 is not a good not health, not a good thing to be doing in 572 00:44:10.780 --> 00:44:16.099 this situations like gas on the fire. Exactly. If the woman is alone, 573 00:44:16.099 --> 00:44:20.139 be sure she has all the resources. If you're connecting her with a 574 00:44:20.219 --> 00:44:23.289 mentorship program whatever you're connecting with her with, make sure she has all of 575 00:44:23.409 --> 00:44:27.610 that before she leaves you, because you're not going to be calling her. 576 00:44:27.650 --> 00:44:30.130 You're going to count on her calling you. If you're connecting her with a 577 00:44:30.250 --> 00:44:36.570 mentor or there's people that are going to be helping her with any resource, 578 00:44:37.010 --> 00:44:42.639 be sure that she has their phone number and notify who all those resources. 579 00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:46.880 Don't call her. Don't call her until she has called you and given given 580 00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:52.869 you permission or times when it's safe. And finally, our model is Jesus. 581 00:44:52.909 --> 00:45:00.989 Jesus was calm, confident, prayerful, truthful, tactful, kind and 582 00:45:00.750 --> 00:45:05.429 direct, and so we are to mirror him and I think that is true 583 00:45:05.469 --> 00:45:09.219 and no matter what situation. Absolutely, but maybe more so in this than 584 00:45:09.780 --> 00:45:15.340 some of the others. Yeah, absolutely. So it's probably been pretty heavy. 585 00:45:15.380 --> 00:45:19.699 Yeah, heavy subject. It's a subject that we deal with a lot. 586 00:45:19.739 --> 00:45:22.929 Of these hard case subjects are difficult to deal with, and so we 587 00:45:23.130 --> 00:45:27.809 certainly don't want to have you guys left with like, Oh man, I 588 00:45:27.969 --> 00:45:30.730 hope I don't encounter this or if I do, I hope I can know 589 00:45:30.889 --> 00:45:37.880 what to do. God is our direction, right, he gives us direction. 590 00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:42.880 Yeah, his Holy Spirit is in us, and so when you encounter 591 00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:47.320 situations like this, whatever the hard case situation might be, it's always important 592 00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:51.510 to lift it up to the Lord in prayer. God has far more wisdom 593 00:45:51.989 --> 00:45:55.429 than I do, and Vicki does. Then the domestic abuse hotline lady does. 594 00:45:57.469 --> 00:46:01.230 God knows. Yeah, and God can intervene and certainly God can save 595 00:46:01.349 --> 00:46:07.019 dirt bags. It'scumbags. He saved me. I was not an abusive man, 596 00:46:07.219 --> 00:46:10.059 but I'll had other sin issues that were going on and you know, 597 00:46:10.179 --> 00:46:15.460 God can save these women out of these situations. So we have to always 598 00:46:15.460 --> 00:46:17.260 bring God into the equation, bring the hope of the Gospel and the in 599 00:46:17.300 --> 00:46:22.769 the equation. So hope this is equiped some of you guys that are listening 600 00:46:22.050 --> 00:46:27.170 if you have suggestions for us. Maybe you've dealt with a situation like this. 601 00:46:27.329 --> 00:46:29.969 You've been involved of them, maybe sidewalk canceling for a long time or 602 00:46:30.050 --> 00:46:32.400 a pregnancy center for a long time, and you've dealt with situations like this 603 00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:37.000 and you can offer us some wisdom. We certainly don't feel like we have 604 00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:40.599 it all together and we probably only really scratch the surface here in this podcast 605 00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:44.159 some of the things that can be touched on. So reach out to us. 606 00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:47.230 I shared my email earlier d parks at cities for lifecom. She is 607 00:46:47.309 --> 00:46:52.789 a vcs Oregat cities for lifecom. Reach out to us if you have subjects 608 00:46:52.829 --> 00:46:57.269 you'd like for us to cover on this podcast and maybe guests that you want 609 00:46:57.309 --> 00:46:59.949 us to interview. Bring on, we've done that in the past. We'd 610 00:46:59.989 --> 00:47:05.420 certainly be willing to do that. So reach out to us and we'll put 611 00:47:05.460 --> 00:47:09.179 this article out on sidewalks for lifecom. Sidewalks the number four lifecom. But 612 00:47:09.260 --> 00:47:22.409 until next time, God bless, give me out for love, give me 613 00:47:22.170 --> 00:47:30.039 our love, for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. 614 00:47:34.760 --> 00:47:37.159 Nothing's too precious. And some met you