Hard Cases: A Rape Victim, Addicted to Drugs, and Deeply Depressed

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:06.400 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me, Lord. 2 00:00:06.879 --> 00:00:10.949 I welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. In this episode we're 3 00:00:10.990 --> 00:00:13.990 going to share a story of a young lady who was dealing with depression, 4 00:00:14.390 --> 00:00:17.670 a rape situation in drug addictions, who showed up at the abortion center. 5 00:00:17.989 --> 00:00:20.870 Going to share some principles of how we deal with the situation. So stay 6 00:00:20.949 --> 00:00:35.060 tuned. I felt show Passi touts your home. Use Me. Love Hei 7 00:00:35.100 --> 00:00:39.890 there, welcome to the Gospel centered pro life podcast. I'm here with Daniel 8 00:00:40.090 --> 00:00:43.929 Parks. What's up? Yeah, well, what's up? As we have 9 00:00:44.049 --> 00:00:49.170 another case study we've been kind of the past few podcast we have been doing 10 00:00:49.329 --> 00:00:54.759 case studies of actual moms that we have counseled, that we have met out 11 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:59.880 at the abortion center that we have followed often for years. This one I 12 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:03.469 actually am still friends with. I still write to her in this this case 13 00:01:03.790 --> 00:01:08.430 probably I first met her three, four, maybe even five years ago at 14 00:01:08.590 --> 00:01:12.629 at this point. But like many of the women that we encounter, she 15 00:01:12.790 --> 00:01:19.180 had multiple issues. YEA, so she had. We kind of titled This 16 00:01:19.340 --> 00:01:25.540 a Case Study of a woman with depression, rape and drug addiction, and 17 00:01:26.780 --> 00:01:30.459 those are not uncommon issues. Know, we the with the MOMS that that 18 00:01:30.579 --> 00:01:34.650 we come into contact with. Right. Yeah, they don't always occur together, 19 00:01:34.810 --> 00:01:40.209 but actually sometimes they do. Yeah, Yep, sometimes they do. 20 00:01:40.489 --> 00:01:45.569 We the understanding is, and we're dealing with hard cases. There maybe one 21 00:01:46.730 --> 00:01:51.359 kind of prominent issue that they've got going on, but it can be interwoven 22 00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:53.920 with a lot of other stuff, a lot of other struggles that tie into 23 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:57.280 that issue. Yeah, and that's the case here. Sure, and often 24 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:04.310 times that is not revealed on the first, yeah, time that you meet 25 00:02:04.349 --> 00:02:07.310 them. A kind of comes out as you get to know them and then 26 00:02:07.590 --> 00:02:13.189 you and I'm glad because I think we would be unbelievably overwhelmed if we heard 27 00:02:13.430 --> 00:02:16.139 every issue that they're facing. Their complex their people. Yeah, people are 28 00:02:16.180 --> 00:02:22.620 complex, usually with complex issues, especially once sin enters into the equation, 29 00:02:22.860 --> 00:02:29.939 things get really complex. Yeah, and hard. Yeah, absolutely. So 30 00:02:30.289 --> 00:02:34.289 this young lady, we'll call her kate. All right, and we meet 31 00:02:34.289 --> 00:02:38.289 Kate. She arrives with her mother to the abortion center. She went into 32 00:02:38.409 --> 00:02:42.969 this center but was like many of the women in and out. The mom 33 00:02:43.810 --> 00:02:49.719 was clearly abortion minded, clearly siding towards abortion, but she said that she 34 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:57.560 would support Kate in in whatever kate decide iided and kate was markedly non emotional, 35 00:02:57.919 --> 00:03:01.629 flat affect. I could not read Kate at all. Yeah, I 36 00:03:01.750 --> 00:03:05.870 found out later, maybe why, some of the reasons why, but I 37 00:03:06.069 --> 00:03:09.990 remember when I first met her thinking this something, something's wrong. Yeah, 38 00:03:10.030 --> 00:03:15.900 but this girl. So she she told me right away that she did not 39 00:03:16.020 --> 00:03:20.259 believe in God. She did believe in a higher power, but it was 40 00:03:20.340 --> 00:03:25.259 a really new agey kind of funny like didn't really understand at all. Yeah, 41 00:03:25.340 --> 00:03:30.449 where she was coming from. And she was not interested in a discussion 42 00:03:30.490 --> 00:03:32.370 of God. In other words, she didn't want to talk about God's kind 43 00:03:32.409 --> 00:03:36.849 of told us I don't don't bring God into this, I don't believe in 44 00:03:37.009 --> 00:03:45.240 God. The he doesn't enter and into my decision. She was not terribly 45 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:49.800 interested even in a in a discussion of the resources and and as you know, 46 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:54.909 we have three main areas we go into. Yeah, God, resources 47 00:03:55.270 --> 00:03:59.310 and then the humanity of the baby. So the first two things she's kind 48 00:03:59.310 --> 00:04:01.909 of has shown no interest in. Yeah, the one thing that she did 49 00:04:02.110 --> 00:04:06.030 show some interest in was the ultrasound. Yeah, well, that's a that's 50 00:04:06.030 --> 00:04:10.139 a resource. So it is curious. Yeah, well, that's true. 51 00:04:10.219 --> 00:04:13.180 It's a resource, but it and it also talks about the baby development. 52 00:04:13.340 --> 00:04:15.420 She was interested. I think she was surprised as some of the things we 53 00:04:15.540 --> 00:04:19.379 were saying about baby development. So it was only late, leader, like 54 00:04:19.500 --> 00:04:24.930 I said in our introduction, that I learned that there were many layers of 55 00:04:25.769 --> 00:04:30.050 trauma, yeah, to this young lady, one of which was that she 56 00:04:30.370 --> 00:04:36.050 the baby had been conceived in rape and honestly, the total repression of emotion 57 00:04:36.209 --> 00:04:41.040 should have been kind of a tipoff to me that there was probably some trauma, 58 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:47.279 some deep trauma. She did discuss right away deep depression. That was, 59 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:50.959 in fact, as I recall, the main reason that she was there 60 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:56.430 and the main reason the mother was so concerned was that the baby would just 61 00:04:57.589 --> 00:05:01.310 tip her deeper into depression, and it was a debilitating depression. Yeah, 62 00:05:03.949 --> 00:05:10.660 her mother was very worried about what that child, which was not wanted and 63 00:05:10.860 --> 00:05:13.740 not planned, was going to do to the mental health, yeah, of 64 00:05:14.180 --> 00:05:17.980 her daughter. And as we continue in the discussion, we find out that 65 00:05:18.620 --> 00:05:25.050 Kate was addicted to drugs and that was another big concern of the mother. 66 00:05:25.250 --> 00:05:28.930 Yeah, absolutely. So what was interesting, though, she told us that 67 00:05:29.089 --> 00:05:33.689 when she learned of the baby, which she didn't want, or so we 68 00:05:33.810 --> 00:05:40.040 thought anyway, she stopped her drug use cold Turkey, and it was pretty 69 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:43.839 significant drug use. Yeah, and so it hadn't been long yet. It 70 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:46.959 had only been a week or two. She had not known for very long 71 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:49.310 that she was pregnant, but in that period of time she had stopped her 72 00:05:49.310 --> 00:05:54.990 drug use, and so that was a really important clue. Yeah, absolutely 73 00:05:55.149 --> 00:06:01.389 to us. So I think that was kind of where the what we're presented 74 00:06:01.430 --> 00:06:05.019 with, yeah, at this point. Yeah, and the first principle here, 75 00:06:05.220 --> 00:06:10.420 because we have been doing in the past couple of episodes where we shared 76 00:06:10.459 --> 00:06:15.019 these case studies, is we've kind of ided principles and so I hope you 77 00:06:15.060 --> 00:06:16.939 guys are taking notes and I hope these principles are a blessing to you. 78 00:06:17.810 --> 00:06:21.089 But the first principle is discern the major issues. We want to get to 79 00:06:21.170 --> 00:06:25.329 the bottom and when I talk to a mom that's coming to the abortion center, 80 00:06:25.410 --> 00:06:28.250 I talk to a dad that's bring his girlfriend there, one of the 81 00:06:28.290 --> 00:06:31.959 first things I will say is what brought you here? Right, and sometimes 82 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:35.720 I find often it's like there's a lot of stuff, as we talked about, 83 00:06:35.720 --> 00:06:40.279 there's a lot of interwoven stuff, but right often times there's like one 84 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:46.120 major thing that, if that thing could be removed, then they would consider 85 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:48.029 keeping their babies. Matter of fact, I will try to get to that. 86 00:06:48.629 --> 00:06:51.310 If there was one thing, I'll say this sometimes, if there's one 87 00:06:51.389 --> 00:06:56.949 thing that if you could just snap your finger and it's taken care of and 88 00:06:57.189 --> 00:07:00.069 that would help you to choose life, what would that one thing be? 89 00:07:00.670 --> 00:07:02.379 Yeah, and do they often have one thing? Do you find that the 90 00:07:02.459 --> 00:07:06.339 Lanser that I find that there's typically one major thing in the forefront of their 91 00:07:06.379 --> 00:07:10.500 mind. Now again, it's interwoven with a bunch of other stuff. I'm 92 00:07:10.500 --> 00:07:13.220 not pretending that, you know, there is a snap of the finger that 93 00:07:13.379 --> 00:07:15.019 is going to take care of that, but I just want them to be 94 00:07:15.180 --> 00:07:19.329 thinking about how actually that one thing that's in their mind is not the end 95 00:07:19.329 --> 00:07:23.329 of the world. Yeah, that they've experienced things like that in the past 96 00:07:23.569 --> 00:07:25.810 and that the Lord has brought them through. They've been able to make it 97 00:07:25.970 --> 00:07:29.889 through. Yeah, because the devil operates in the realm of fear. Absolutely, 98 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:32.120 and when he can get you fearful of the future because of this one 99 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:38.040 issue, whether it's relational or financial or whatever it might be, right, 100 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:42.120 the devil can really do people into doing something that they'll regret in the future 101 00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:45.990 if he can hold that fear of room. Yeah, yeah, and so 102 00:07:46.350 --> 00:07:48.430 one of the things, though, this is not within the principles, but 103 00:07:48.509 --> 00:07:51.589 I did want us to talk about and before we started this podcast we talked 104 00:07:51.629 --> 00:07:55.670 a little bit about this too. Maybe even we would do a whole podcast 105 00:07:55.750 --> 00:07:59.139 about this, because this is a pretty common issue. In the midst of 106 00:07:59.220 --> 00:08:01.899 just a little bit that you've shared, initially kate was like, I don't 107 00:08:01.899 --> 00:08:05.660 want to talk about God, you don't mention God, don't mention religious stuff, 108 00:08:07.579 --> 00:08:11.459 and so the question is kind of a rabbit trail. How do you 109 00:08:11.540 --> 00:08:13.610 deal with that? Right? Do you mention the Lord? Do you leave 110 00:08:13.689 --> 00:08:20.009 got out of the equation, or do you just keep bringing the truth of 111 00:08:20.089 --> 00:08:22.850 who God is into the equation? When? How do you hand that sort 112 00:08:22.850 --> 00:08:28.839 of well, I'll tell you, when someone is very adamant about anything like 113 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:33.879 don't talk about God, don't mention my boyfriend, whatever, I usually for 114 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:37.960 that moment on or it, because I'm just going to come up against a 115 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:41.789 closed door that when they're that Adam and I know that they're just going to 116 00:08:41.990 --> 00:08:48.909 slam the discussion to a halt. And so I think I will mention God. 117 00:08:48.950 --> 00:08:52.789 I will always mention God. I can't not mention God. That is 118 00:08:52.870 --> 00:08:58.460 it's where Gospel focused, ministry, but also just God, is such an 119 00:08:58.500 --> 00:09:03.940 integral part of every belief system inside of me. I can't possibly guide and 120 00:09:05.100 --> 00:09:09.370 counsel someone without bringing that up. Yeah, but if they say don't mention 121 00:09:09.570 --> 00:09:13.809 God, then I then I think in the back of my mind I'm thinking, 122 00:09:13.929 --> 00:09:16.490 okay, I'm going to have to bring him up at an opportune time. 123 00:09:16.490 --> 00:09:22.250 I'm off and praying Lord Open that door when you know, when you 124 00:09:22.370 --> 00:09:26.799 can, when it would be the perfect timing. And I'll go into other 125 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:31.840 areas. So with her, I knew right away that just mentioning the science 126 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.200 and the development of the baby, she was interested in seeing the baby. 127 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:37.399 Yeah, and that was a big clue to me. There she wants to 128 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:41.950 know how developed that baby is. She she's someone that might respond to that, 129 00:09:41.149 --> 00:09:46.909 and that's where I went initially. Yeah, and God always opens the 130 00:09:46.950 --> 00:09:52.309 door. That is what I have found. And if you just don't cause 131 00:09:52.509 --> 00:09:56.899 immediate antagonist antagonism by saying sorry, God, talk about God. Yeah, 132 00:09:58.379 --> 00:10:03.899 but you like, let her kind of leads you to where God almost naturally 133 00:10:03.980 --> 00:10:09.049 comes then into the discus. I should she might be more willing to hear, 134 00:10:09.370 --> 00:10:11.450 and indeed that it. That is actually what did happen in that case. 135 00:10:11.490 --> 00:10:16.529 Yeah, but but that's generally, yeah, ideal with it. Yeah, 136 00:10:16.570 --> 00:10:20.690 and I've encountered these situations, and you guys that are listening, I'm 137 00:10:20.730 --> 00:10:22.559 sure if you've been on the sidewalks for any amount of time, you've encountered 138 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:26.279 these situations where people are saying, yeah, I'll talk you, I just 139 00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:30.559 don't want to talk about any of that God's stuff. And typically I find 140 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:35.750 that those statements come out of a place of anger with God or hurt because 141 00:10:35.750 --> 00:10:39.789 they were raised in church or or whatever it might be. And so it's 142 00:10:39.830 --> 00:10:41.070 really not helpful. I mean, if you want to just go ahead and 143 00:10:41.110 --> 00:10:45.590 shut the whole conversation down, then just, you know, go ahead and 144 00:10:45.710 --> 00:10:48.710 go into a gospel presentation. I mean, God could use it for sure, 145 00:10:50.220 --> 00:10:52.539 but I find, like you said, it's just not helpful. If 146 00:10:52.539 --> 00:10:54.700 they told you to stop talking about it, or they've told you to stop 147 00:10:54.740 --> 00:11:00.419 talking about the boyfriend that God are pregnant. Yeah, you just table that. 148 00:11:00.860 --> 00:11:03.820 Yeah, let the Lord Open Up, you know, the conversation. 149 00:11:03.019 --> 00:11:07.769 Because one of the things I will say, and this has been a couple 150 00:11:07.809 --> 00:11:09.730 of conversations. I just that come to mind for me with, mostly with 151 00:11:09.809 --> 00:11:13.129 the men coming to the abortion. So they say, you know, don't 152 00:11:13.330 --> 00:11:16.090 talk about God, I will. I will say, well, listen, 153 00:11:16.129 --> 00:11:20.360 I'll do the best I can to honor that request. But just please know 154 00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:24.879 I'm a Christian, I love God. He's changed my life and for me 155 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:26.759 not to talk about him as like for me not to talk about my wife 156 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:30.720 or my kids, because he is my life and he's part of who I 157 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:33.750 am. So if I mentioned the Lord, it's not because I'm not honoring 158 00:11:33.789 --> 00:11:37.870 your request, just because it's so natural for me to talk about the God 159 00:11:37.870 --> 00:11:41.190 who's changed my life. And then I'll jump into so I want to make 160 00:11:41.230 --> 00:11:46.389 sure because what'll happen is they're kind of, in one sense, looking for 161 00:11:46.429 --> 00:11:48.139 a reason of offense, right, they're looking for a reason to shut the 162 00:11:48.220 --> 00:11:52.860 conversation down. So if you don't honor their requests, that's reason to shut 163 00:11:52.940 --> 00:11:54.500 the conversation down and they can, they can write you off. Right. 164 00:11:56.139 --> 00:11:58.740 You don't want to give them that, but also you don't want to be 165 00:11:58.860 --> 00:12:01.289 disingenuous. Right. So in reality, for me, and I know for 166 00:12:01.370 --> 00:12:05.889 you too, if it wasn't for God, then I would it even be 167 00:12:05.129 --> 00:12:09.889 out at the abortion center. Right. I'm not fighting this, this battle, 168 00:12:09.409 --> 00:12:15.649 based on some humanitarian effort or motivation. You know, my motivation is 169 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:20.000 because Jesus Christ told me to give a voice to the voices, and so 170 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:22.360 it would be really disingenuous for me not to mention God. But again, 171 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:26.960 I want to be intentional that I clearly communicate. If I mentioned the Lord, 172 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:30.269 it's not because I just want to offend you, it's just because it's 173 00:12:30.549 --> 00:12:33.110 second nature, first nature to me. Yeah, really to mention the Lord, 174 00:12:33.549 --> 00:12:39.029 but then I will go right into the scientific stuff. I really I'll 175 00:12:39.070 --> 00:12:45.379 go right into describing fetal development, and those are powerful things that we can 176 00:12:45.419 --> 00:12:48.659 bring up and you know, the science is on our side as it pertains 177 00:12:48.700 --> 00:12:50.500 to life in the womb. So yeah, you can. You got all 178 00:12:50.539 --> 00:12:54.580 kinds of stuff to talk about. As far as that get. Yeah, 179 00:12:54.740 --> 00:12:58.889 there was a guy out at the abortion center today WHO said, I don't 180 00:12:58.889 --> 00:13:01.970 believe in God, and he believed in a higher power, but he said, 181 00:13:01.970 --> 00:13:05.250 I don't believe in God, but I agree with you that abortion is 182 00:13:05.409 --> 00:13:09.970 wrong, and I said why? Yeah, and and that led to him. 183 00:13:09.210 --> 00:13:13.720 He really couldn't. You can't say a lot of the moral questions of 184 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:20.159 why, without in some way indicating there is a standard and that that standard 185 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:26.320 has to have come from someone absolutely, and so you can lead into a 186 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:30.710 god discussion kind of through the back door like that by asking questions. But 187 00:13:31.909 --> 00:13:35.350 but yeah, in general I agree with you. It's usually not very productive, 188 00:13:35.350 --> 00:13:39.590 yeah, for you to slam God down their throat when they really are 189 00:13:39.669 --> 00:13:43.019 not ready to hear God. And, like you said, the Lord will 190 00:13:43.100 --> 00:13:46.419 open up those opportunities and I'm sure as we share in this story, you 191 00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:50.620 guys will hear that that was a bit of a rabbit trail from what we're 192 00:13:50.659 --> 00:13:52.220 talking about, but I think it's a helpful rabbit trail for us and again 193 00:13:52.259 --> 00:13:56.210 we might do a whole podcast about that subject, tackle that subject. But 194 00:13:56.330 --> 00:14:01.009 our first principle here is again discern the major issues, try to figure out 195 00:14:01.049 --> 00:14:05.009 what brought them there, the things that are going on. In her case, 196 00:14:05.529 --> 00:14:09.399 there's the depression from the rape situation and then drug addiction. Right, 197 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:13.720 all three, all three big ones. Fortunately, we have resources for all 198 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:18.759 three of those and I did actually bring those upright away. But, as 199 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:24.149 is often the case, as the story progresses, I learned that there is 200 00:14:24.190 --> 00:14:31.350 a whole lot more to the story that there is significant dysfunction in the family, 201 00:14:31.710 --> 00:14:35.149 which is not unusual, and in the people that we that we deal 202 00:14:35.230 --> 00:14:39.259 with. So she was, like I said, very flat affect, very 203 00:14:39.340 --> 00:14:46.100 non emotional. But when she saw the baby on the ultrasound, she said 204 00:14:46.179 --> 00:14:50.019 that abortion would not be the best choice right away, right away, and 205 00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:52.850 they was the first flicker of emotion. There wasn't a lot, but there 206 00:14:54.009 --> 00:14:56.490 was some emotion on her face as she first sees that heartbeat, sees the 207 00:14:56.570 --> 00:15:01.889 baby moving. The mother, on the other hand, who had said she 208 00:15:01.929 --> 00:15:05.970 would honor Kate's choice, is hovering over Kate and Ann was still say it. 209 00:15:07.090 --> 00:15:11.279 was making comments like well, given your depression, this would not be 210 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:13.720 the best choice. Can you imagine what would happen if you had to care 211 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:20.360 for a baby? And so kate did not even seem to be listening to 212 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:30.110 the mother and as her mother balked at the idea of letting this baby live, 213 00:15:30.950 --> 00:15:37.940 Kate grew even less and less obviously listening to her mother. She is 214 00:15:39.059 --> 00:15:43.419 clearly tuning her mother, her mother out, so that to leave having chosen 215 00:15:43.539 --> 00:15:48.419 life. We know it's a very tenuous choice. I had said I would 216 00:15:48.419 --> 00:15:52.450 be in touch. I don't think I did bring God up much in other 217 00:15:52.570 --> 00:15:56.450 than saying things like what a miracle this life was, as we're looking at 218 00:15:56.009 --> 00:16:04.279 the ultrasound, but at that time in in our ministry we didn't have a 219 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:07.720 mentorship program yet. So I was the one that was going to be following 220 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:12.000 up with Kate and I find out over the next few days kate desperately wants 221 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:17.879 to to leave her home, that her mother was very controlling and I had 222 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:21.669 seen that. So this was no surprise to me when she said that. 223 00:16:22.149 --> 00:16:26.429 But then she said that her mother had threatened her, had actually tried to 224 00:16:26.629 --> 00:16:33.980 choke her following the time on the ultrasound with us, and Kate even had 225 00:16:33.340 --> 00:16:37.820 of recording of that, not a video but an audio recording, and she 226 00:16:37.980 --> 00:16:45.860 played it for me well, and it was scary. So I thought Kate 227 00:16:47.059 --> 00:16:52.570 was probably in imminent danger of literally being killed by her mother and I urged 228 00:16:52.690 --> 00:16:59.169 her to call the police. She did, and actually the way that I 229 00:17:00.049 --> 00:17:03.399 got her to do that was I said, look, I will come to 230 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:06.400 your house, I will come be with you, but you need to call 231 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:10.720 the police. I would leave the house and and I think you how to 232 00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:12.680 call the police. So in retrospect we can talk about. Was that a 233 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:17.549 good idea? Once again, Vicki is leaping to go. Yeah, with 234 00:17:18.029 --> 00:17:23.990 a potentially violent Um parent, but that is that is what what I did. 235 00:17:25.670 --> 00:17:33.339 And the policeman met US in front of Kate's house and they went in, 236 00:17:33.660 --> 00:17:37.779 talked with the parents. They came back out and actually told Kate, 237 00:17:37.819 --> 00:17:41.700 you know, your parents don't want you to leave because and they're saying, 238 00:17:41.740 --> 00:17:45.769 well, we'll help get you to a safe house, similar to our last 239 00:17:45.809 --> 00:17:48.650 story. Yeah, the safe house was one that Kate had already found. 240 00:17:48.650 --> 00:17:53.089 It was actually the boyfriend's family. Okay, the boyfriend that I don't yet 241 00:17:53.210 --> 00:17:57.170 know she is going to later accuse of rape. Good shows you kind of 242 00:17:57.250 --> 00:18:04.960 the crazy, just convoluted mess, tangled mess in this girl's life. Yeah, 243 00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:11.039 but so the the policeman come out and say, your parents are telling 244 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:15.910 us they don't want you to leave. They really they sound like I've dealt 245 00:18:15.910 --> 00:18:18.990 with a lot of, you know, disabled families, and he was saying, 246 00:18:18.430 --> 00:18:22.029 I really think your parents really do love you, they don't want you 247 00:18:22.069 --> 00:18:25.269 to leave. Maybe you should consider just staying. And she said no, 248 00:18:25.589 --> 00:18:30.339 she could not return, and so I help her gather her things, which 249 00:18:30.420 --> 00:18:34.259 the policeman brought out I think he went in with her to stand guard as 250 00:18:34.339 --> 00:18:40.900 she gathers things and I helped bring her over to the boyfriend's family. Okay, 251 00:18:41.140 --> 00:18:45.009 where she moves in, or at least temporarily, with my help bring 252 00:18:45.130 --> 00:18:49.089 this stuff over in, that family seemed wonderful. Yeah, on on the 253 00:18:49.210 --> 00:18:53.609 surface they seemed. They seemed wonderful. They took my name and number, 254 00:18:53.970 --> 00:19:00.440 thanked me for bringing her there. They seem to support that Kate's parents were 255 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:08.240 nuts and she needed to be out of that situation. And and only a 256 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:15.589 couple weeks later I get a call from this host family that Kate is like. 257 00:19:15.990 --> 00:19:22.109 There's all kinds of problems with kate that they are discovering, and once 258 00:19:22.190 --> 00:19:26.619 again I'm having second thoughts about what did I just do? Yeah, did 259 00:19:26.660 --> 00:19:33.259 I did? I do the rate, the right thing. She had a 260 00:19:33.460 --> 00:19:38.250 relationship with that father still and went through periods of rage when the father of 261 00:19:38.369 --> 00:19:45.210 the baby would apparently reject her. And so I'm beginning to she tells me 262 00:19:45.329 --> 00:19:48.170 that the father had raped her again. That came out a little bit later, 263 00:19:48.329 --> 00:19:52.960 and then I'm beginning to doubt everything kate is saying. Yeah, because 264 00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:57.559 there's the family that she is just moved into is saying our son is not 265 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:03.599 a rapist. This is not true, but there are significant problems. Yea 266 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:07.309 Kate. Yeah. And the next principle is, and this is something always 267 00:20:07.309 --> 00:20:10.670 keeping the back of your mind when you're dealing with these hard cases, is 268 00:20:11.109 --> 00:20:15.789 you rarely hear the whole story. Yeah, when you first encounter these MOMS, 269 00:20:15.910 --> 00:20:18.630 that's right, you'll hear maybe bits and pieces, maybe you'll hear the 270 00:20:18.750 --> 00:20:23.579 kind of surface level of what's going on, but there's always something going on, 271 00:20:23.900 --> 00:20:29.420 something deeper going on, whatever that situation might be, even in hard 272 00:20:29.500 --> 00:20:33.299 cases where there's a health issue. Sometimes, if you dig a little deep 273 00:20:33.339 --> 00:20:37.490 or little deeper, you'll find that maybe you're not getting the whole story right. 274 00:20:38.569 --> 00:20:41.410 But that doesn't mean you just write them off and think they're lying, 275 00:20:41.730 --> 00:20:45.410 because we can be tempted because we've been lowed too so many times out there 276 00:20:45.450 --> 00:20:48.930 right and minister into these moms and even after the fact, as we're ministering 277 00:20:48.970 --> 00:20:53.279 to him an ongoing basis, we can get jaded and think they're just always 278 00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:56.279 lying. Just write them off. It's got to take what they what they 279 00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:00.720 say, for what it is and just move forward as best we can to 280 00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:03.750 lay out a plan for them. But yet remember, you don't always get 281 00:21:04.150 --> 00:21:07.950 you rarely actually get the whole story. Yeah, and knowing that, you 282 00:21:08.029 --> 00:21:11.549 know, in retrospect, as I'm looking at this whole thing, I'm thinking, 283 00:21:11.750 --> 00:21:15.349 what was I thinking? You know, why did I get involved in 284 00:21:15.430 --> 00:21:18.420 that? I should have told her call the police, and then I should 285 00:21:18.420 --> 00:21:23.019 have stepped out. I think that there there are sometimes when we overextend ourselves 286 00:21:23.099 --> 00:21:27.099 and in retrospect, I really feel like that was over extending myself, because 287 00:21:27.259 --> 00:21:33.410 now I'm in a situation that I probably I had no, I didn't have 288 00:21:33.490 --> 00:21:36.650 the whole picture. I didn't know who is lying. Now there's the parents 289 00:21:36.650 --> 00:21:40.170 are saying one thing, Kate saying one thing, the family of the father 290 00:21:40.650 --> 00:21:44.210 of the baby is saying another thing. And who am I to try and 291 00:21:44.369 --> 00:21:47.359 figure out? Yeah, what? So, in the midst of all this 292 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:52.559 terrible struggle, Kate is now pretty distraught because she is recognizing no matter where 293 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:57.400 she goes, trouble follows and she's beginning to have she I think, even 294 00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:02.470 said something like what, is there something wrong with me? Yeah, what? 295 00:22:02.710 --> 00:22:07.589 And and that's the perfect opening to the Gospel. Yes, there is 296 00:22:07.829 --> 00:22:11.630 something wrong with you. There's something wrong with every human being and it's sin. 297 00:22:12.069 --> 00:22:15.819 Yeah, and and since separates us from God and when we follow those 298 00:22:17.299 --> 00:22:23.660 sinful choices they only lead to destruction. So I begin sharing the Gospel and 299 00:22:23.779 --> 00:22:27.180 continue to share the gospel over the over the next couple few weeks, I 300 00:22:27.259 --> 00:22:33.650 guess, and she's she was more and more willing to to hear it and 301 00:22:34.170 --> 00:22:37.609 one of the most helpful resources that we offer. Now she's like, I 302 00:22:37.769 --> 00:22:42.690 don't even remember honestly where she ended up, if she was back in the 303 00:22:42.849 --> 00:22:47.680 parents house, if which she was with a new friend house. I think 304 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.359 there was another interim housing. She did finally returned to the Parents House with 305 00:22:53.359 --> 00:23:00.029 with the police and DSS, maybe even had stepped in. But at that 306 00:23:00.230 --> 00:23:03.670 point, as she returns to her Parents House and I'm saying what are you 307 00:23:03.750 --> 00:23:06.630 doing? I thought your mom tried to choke you, she had it. 308 00:23:06.910 --> 00:23:11.900 She had kind of doctored and edited that choke recording. Well, so even 309 00:23:11.980 --> 00:23:19.099 that was was a bit of a lie. But during the baby shower where 310 00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:25.619 Sheryl Chandler of truth and mercy ministries comes in. We do the baby shower 311 00:23:25.779 --> 00:23:30.609 at Kate's house and the mother's there and the the overbearing, hovering control of 312 00:23:30.730 --> 00:23:38.009 the mother was obvious and we really began to understand poor kate's situation. She 313 00:23:38.170 --> 00:23:42.960 couldn't even say I like this dress for the baby. Well, was a 314 00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:48.759 boy. I like this pair of pants, without the mother countering it with 315 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.400 something. Yeah. So there was not a single choice or thought that Kate 316 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:57.190 was really allowed to have and I understood then the dynamics of why she felt 317 00:23:57.230 --> 00:24:04.509 the need to to escape that. And in the baby shower Sheryl always shares 318 00:24:04.589 --> 00:24:07.829 the Gospel beautifully. We always take them. I'm out. We took the 319 00:24:08.069 --> 00:24:11.700 we took kate out alone without the mother. That was that was hard, 320 00:24:12.059 --> 00:24:17.940 getting the mother to let us do that, share the Gospel in its entirety, 321 00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:22.619 both of us. And Kate is so broken at this point, having 322 00:24:22.859 --> 00:24:30.289 seen and having had us see what her mother was truly like. That she 323 00:24:30.450 --> 00:24:36.170 said she she wanted to ask Usus to be her lord and she she shared. 324 00:24:36.210 --> 00:24:41.039 That was when she shared the the drug problem and just everything that poured 325 00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:45.119 out and all the lies, and we really felt this was a very sincere 326 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:51.599 pouring out a heart towards wanting to submit her life to the Lord. So 327 00:24:52.069 --> 00:24:56.829 we prayed. We prayed with her. She asked him to take control of 328 00:24:56.950 --> 00:25:00.990 her life and and we're rejoicing in the middle of I think it was at 329 00:25:00.029 --> 00:25:03.589 Denny's yester and see, the Lord opened up the opportunity, right. She 330 00:25:03.670 --> 00:25:07.180 didn't want to talk about God. That's what it to just leave that religious 331 00:25:07.259 --> 00:25:11.059 quote, religious talk on the table, right. But then the Lord opens 332 00:25:11.099 --> 00:25:15.380 of the door, as you continue with discipleship and follow up with her and 333 00:25:15.579 --> 00:25:22.049 and so this third principles, when their world falls apart, yeah, God 334 00:25:22.130 --> 00:25:23.650 can step in. You know, it's not until we come to the end 335 00:25:23.650 --> 00:25:27.410 of ourselves until we can begin with the Lord. And it took her coming 336 00:25:27.450 --> 00:25:30.170 to the end of herself before she was open to hear about the things of 337 00:25:30.289 --> 00:25:36.039 God, and God was plowing the soil of her heart. Yeah, through 338 00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:40.519 the situation. She was the one that said to me, and Cheryl can't. 339 00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:42.599 Can I ask him to be Lord Right now? Because Cheryl's philosophy is 340 00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:47.839 kind of don't. Don't really extend an invitation. She doesn't want to want 341 00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:51.470 them to feel that they should ask Jesus to be their Lord because we've given 342 00:25:51.470 --> 00:25:53.230 them, you know, a house full of gifts. Sure, and that's 343 00:25:53.269 --> 00:25:57.190 a really, very important, yeah, thing to be concerned about. But 344 00:25:57.390 --> 00:26:00.349 this girl was begging. I I want test. How do I do it? 345 00:26:00.509 --> 00:26:03.269 When can I do it? Can I do it now? Yeah, 346 00:26:03.309 --> 00:26:06.819 and so you know, you know I didn't. We didn't say no, 347 00:26:07.019 --> 00:26:11.180 we said yes, yes, she can, and she repented of many many 348 00:26:11.220 --> 00:26:15.059 since that's how he had a sense of what was truly going on in her 349 00:26:15.140 --> 00:26:19.009 life. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, it was pretty awesome. So 350 00:26:19.690 --> 00:26:26.410 kind of the end of this whole story. Then she remains with her parents. 351 00:26:26.529 --> 00:26:30.450 She's now a new believer. Her son is born and she was just 352 00:26:32.289 --> 00:26:37.079 smitten. She remained living with the mom for the next three years, I 353 00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:40.319 think, and stayed in touch with me. I stayed in touch with her 354 00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:44.319 and she was doing really well. She finished her college education, she began 355 00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:51.029 working. She ended up reconciling, not it relationship with the father of the 356 00:26:51.109 --> 00:26:57.109 their son, but they they co parented and they had a good relationship in 357 00:26:57.230 --> 00:27:03.019 co parenting and she admitted he shocked her and became a good father. Yes, 358 00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:07.500 a good father. The other family were now had a good relationship with 359 00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:14.220 Kate. She was saving money for her own apartment and during that time, 360 00:27:14.539 --> 00:27:21.250 what is really often happens, she then began to counsel other young ladies, 361 00:27:21.289 --> 00:27:25.809 her friends in similar situations to what she had been in and referred them to 362 00:27:25.970 --> 00:27:30.880 us and we helped her friends, chiefs, life and such came full circle. 363 00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:36.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so what you guys remember in all 364 00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:42.160 of these stories and what we're sharing is some pretty miraculous, I would say 365 00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:48.390 one hundred and eighty degree turnarounds. Didn't happen immediately. This was so over 366 00:27:48.430 --> 00:27:52.150 a period of this is loving years. Yeah, really years. But remember, 367 00:27:52.509 --> 00:27:56.670 miracles do happen. Yeah, God can work miracles. When God changes 368 00:27:56.710 --> 00:28:00.140 a human heart, that's a miracle. When a mom who was headed into 369 00:28:00.140 --> 00:28:04.059 an abortion center turns around and reconsiders taking the life of her baby, that's 370 00:28:04.099 --> 00:28:07.579 a miracle. When a mom or dad or anyone that we encounter, when 371 00:28:07.619 --> 00:28:11.380 we present the Gospel to him and their need for a savior, when their 372 00:28:11.460 --> 00:28:15.809 heart is turned to the Lord, that's a miracle. Yeah, when circumstances 373 00:28:15.890 --> 00:28:19.569 that seem impossible and in from a worldly perspective, are impossible. I know 374 00:28:19.650 --> 00:28:22.690 you and I both and all of our counselors, I think, would attest 375 00:28:22.769 --> 00:28:25.970 it to this. If you've been on the side while you would attest to 376 00:28:26.049 --> 00:28:30.359 this when you've encountered situations where you're scratching your head and your thinking. I 377 00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:33.359 mean, I don't have a clue how to remedy this situation. Yeah, 378 00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:37.119 and you look to the Lord and you see God work it out. That's 379 00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:41.670 a miracle. Yeah. So, guys, I think we probably this is 380 00:28:41.750 --> 00:28:45.109 probably a principle and every one of these stories that we share, it is 381 00:28:45.230 --> 00:28:48.910 some it's some fastest proble the time that we have to rely on the Lord. 382 00:28:48.910 --> 00:28:52.869 Yes, when we ever get into a mode of operation and where we 383 00:28:53.029 --> 00:28:56.619 think we can do what we do based on the science. Again, like 384 00:28:56.700 --> 00:29:00.660 we started out, the sciences on our side as far as life beginning at 385 00:29:00.779 --> 00:29:04.500 conception, the baby in a womb is a living thing. I mean ultrasound. 386 00:29:04.539 --> 00:29:08.740 You can see the sciences on our side. Resources, I mean, 387 00:29:08.859 --> 00:29:17.049 goodness gracious, anything from like free doctors to daycare, whatever you can think 388 00:29:17.049 --> 00:29:18.609 of, housing, all of that. The resources are there, right, 389 00:29:18.930 --> 00:29:22.609 there's there's all these good reasons, right, and there's all these good resources 390 00:29:22.730 --> 00:29:27.079 and there's all these scientific stuff and we should use that. I mean why 391 00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:32.160 wouldn't we? But the just just focus on those things and not bring God 392 00:29:32.200 --> 00:29:36.640 into the equation and not acknowledge God's ability to turn a situation right side up 393 00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:41.750 would be the completely miss the most powerful aspect of who we are as believers 394 00:29:41.789 --> 00:29:45.349 in Jesus and what we're called to do. We're not just called to bring 395 00:29:45.470 --> 00:29:48.670 resources and scientific truth into the equation, we're called to bring the truth of 396 00:29:48.750 --> 00:29:52.539 who God is into the equation, into the lives of these MOMS and these 397 00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:56.180 babies, and see him do his his work. Yeah, and I think 398 00:29:56.299 --> 00:30:03.619 this is so encouraging because right now, politically, what's happening in our country, 399 00:30:03.660 --> 00:30:07.609 it's easy to be discouraged. I was thinking just this morning, is 400 00:30:07.650 --> 00:30:12.369 abortion ever going to now be outlawed? And then I remembered this. I 401 00:30:12.529 --> 00:30:17.210 remembered this case, I remembered my Lord and I thought, you know, 402 00:30:17.809 --> 00:30:21.410 I'm one person and I know that I have a voice and I know that 403 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:26.680 I have a voice that can speak God's truth and I can help change someone's 404 00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:32.079 heart through God using me, one person at a time. Yeah, that's 405 00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:36.390 how abortion is ultimately going to be defeated. Yeah, absolutely. We've got 406 00:30:36.470 --> 00:30:37.910 to be faithful, yeah, to do what God has called us to do, 407 00:30:38.190 --> 00:30:41.470 to give a voice for these babies, to bring the Gospel to all 408 00:30:41.549 --> 00:30:45.829 for practical help and then leave the results up to the Lord. Yeah, 409 00:30:47.150 --> 00:30:49.099 we've got to be faithful and with this, with this case. I mean 410 00:30:49.259 --> 00:30:56.660 look at all the things that that really were overcome depression, a false accusation 411 00:30:56.140 --> 00:30:59.299 of rape. It turns out it was false. I don't know if I 412 00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:06.410 ever said that. The the healing of the relationship of her family, the 413 00:31:06.609 --> 00:31:11.730 healing of the relationship with his family, drug addiction conquered at a want, 414 00:31:11.809 --> 00:31:18.880 a girl completely dependent on overbearing, overprotective parents, on her own and independent. 415 00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:22.680 Now and then she's bringing other people to the Lord and helping them to 416 00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:26.519 make a choice for life. All those things, yeah, all those things 417 00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:32.359 that happened out of that terrible mess. Yeah, and that's the miracle work 418 00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:34.509 in power. It's right, Lord. Yeah. So, guys, we 419 00:31:34.589 --> 00:31:38.190 are appreciate you guys, listening to this. We would appreciate if you guys 420 00:31:38.269 --> 00:31:42.470 would share this podcast with others encourage them. Maybe it's folks that you know 421 00:31:44.150 --> 00:31:48.460 and they're talking about how to get involved. Maybe they've got a burden for 422 00:31:48.500 --> 00:31:51.019 the issue of abortion and they want to know how can I get involved? 423 00:31:51.940 --> 00:31:55.940 I think this podcast is a good entry point give them from information. We 424 00:31:56.019 --> 00:32:00.019 did a podcast months and months ago about your first time out the abortion center, 425 00:32:00.099 --> 00:32:01.809 what that might look look like. So maybe you guys are listening and 426 00:32:01.890 --> 00:32:06.569 you're praying through getting involved. We'd certainly love for you to get involved. 427 00:32:07.410 --> 00:32:10.690 Want to quee you guys into something that would be a blessing to you. 428 00:32:10.809 --> 00:32:16.119 I think if you're praying about getting involved is we mentioned in several podcasts we 429 00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:20.920 formerly were cities for life. We merged together with love life in an effort 430 00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:23.960 to raise up sidewalk missionaries. That's people who can be out the abortion centers 431 00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:28.160 but also rally the Church in their city. So we're doing that. We're 432 00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:30.630 raising up sidewalk missionaries. We're bringing them here to Charlotte. We're holding boot 433 00:32:30.670 --> 00:32:35.269 camps will retrain them to do those two things, to engage on the sidewalk 434 00:32:35.309 --> 00:32:37.789 and to engage the local church. And and so if you guys want to 435 00:32:37.789 --> 00:32:40.750 get involved with that, you can go to love life dot Org and you 436 00:32:40.789 --> 00:32:46.460 can find some information there. There's tabs. There's a connect tab there that 437 00:32:46.579 --> 00:32:51.140 you can connect and you can reach out to me, Daniel at Love Life 438 00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:52.700 Dot Org. You reach out to her, Vicky at Love Life Dot Org. 439 00:32:52.940 --> 00:32:55.539 Another thing I want to mention you guys. Maybe you don't really feel 440 00:32:55.579 --> 00:33:00.130 like you can take that step to become a full time missionary on the sidewalk. 441 00:33:00.490 --> 00:33:05.329 We can still we still do trainings and we're doing those now once a 442 00:33:05.410 --> 00:33:07.369 month, or we're calling it sidewalk outreach training. It's a one hundred and 443 00:33:07.410 --> 00:33:12.690 one, very basic but I think, in depth, basic training class. 444 00:33:12.730 --> 00:33:15.559 We do it via zoom and we're going to do it actually February, the 445 00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:19.599 six, so is you're listening to this. You're listening to this just the 446 00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:23.160 Thursday before this training. But we do them once a month. So the 447 00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:29.390 next training will be the first Saturday of March and from two to four on 448 00:33:29.470 --> 00:33:32.430 Saturday afternoon the first Saturday of the month. If you guys want to get 449 00:33:32.430 --> 00:33:37.390 in on any of that, get trained in that area or get more information 450 00:33:37.430 --> 00:33:40.539 about becoming a sidewalk missionary, reach out to me, Daniel Love Life Dot 451 00:33:40.539 --> 00:33:45.819 Org. I'll get you the information that you need, get you just some 452 00:33:45.980 --> 00:33:49.420 sign ups and things like that that you'll need. But yeah, reach out 453 00:33:49.460 --> 00:33:52.420 if you're interested in that and with that, we will talk to you guys 454 00:33:52.660 --> 00:34:05.970 next time. God bless o love for love. Give me our love for 455 00:34:06.210 --> 00:34:17.679 gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious and 456 00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:19.960 some you