Critiquing A Sidewalk Mock Session

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.759 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me. 2 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:09.869 Lord, Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. As in a 3 00:00:09.949 --> 00:00:13.349 previous episode, in this episode we're going to play for you a mock sidewalk 4 00:00:13.429 --> 00:00:16.670 counseling session and then we're going to talk through some of the principles in this 5 00:00:16.829 --> 00:00:24.379 session that will help equip you to do subwalll counsel stay too, I felt 6 00:00:24.820 --> 00:00:36.250 show passish, touch your heart. Use. Welcome to the Gospel centered pro 7 00:00:36.409 --> 00:00:40.210 life podcast. Appreciate you guys joining us and, as always, we encourage 8 00:00:40.210 --> 00:00:43.570 you guys to share this podcast reach out to other folks who you think will 9 00:00:43.609 --> 00:00:47.289 be blessed by this episode of the podcast and just the podcast in general. 10 00:00:47.890 --> 00:00:53.520 We produce a lot of episodes really focused on sidewalk out reach and focused on 11 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:57.840 the ministry in front of abortion centers, but other other aspects of ministry as 12 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:02.960 well. But we think that these are encouragement. We put up a little 13 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:06.230 bit of energy into these podcast and I think we put a lot into it, 14 00:01:06.269 --> 00:01:10.390 a lot of thought, a lot of prayer, and I think this 15 00:01:10.510 --> 00:01:14.670 episode will be no different. As you know, past episodes we've gotten a 16 00:01:14.709 --> 00:01:19.099 lot of good feedback, especially the episode we did a couple of weeks ago. 17 00:01:19.500 --> 00:01:23.420 That was basically you and I, Vicky, doing a mock session, 18 00:01:23.420 --> 00:01:26.620 yeah, of sidewalk counseling, kind of going back and forth. A lot 19 00:01:26.659 --> 00:01:30.379 of people were blessed by that. So we're we're going to go on that 20 00:01:30.500 --> 00:01:36.730 same vein with this episode and actually play for you guys a mock session of 21 00:01:36.890 --> 00:01:42.450 Vicky and one of our local sidewalk counselors here, Maddie, and they did 22 00:01:42.530 --> 00:01:45.530 this actually in front of the abortion center. We set up a camera and 23 00:01:45.609 --> 00:01:49.159 we did this actually for training purposes. We had kind of have this woven 24 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:52.120 in to our one hundred and one training where we look at this, this 25 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:57.200 conversation that you and Maddie have, and and we say, Hey, this 26 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.079 is this is a good model for conversation with a mom. And Maddie said 27 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:02.750 herself she was kind of scared. We kind of sprung it on her at 28 00:02:02.750 --> 00:02:07.069 the last minute. Can you do this? And I think the Lord used 29 00:02:07.109 --> 00:02:09.550 that really because the mom's that you encounter at the abortion center, they're scared 30 00:02:09.710 --> 00:02:13.509 right, hey, it is. It was actually very realistic. I really 31 00:02:13.550 --> 00:02:16.180 felt like I was counseling a mom. I kind of lost sight of the 32 00:02:16.259 --> 00:02:21.020 fact that I was doing a training video. It felt like a real counseling 33 00:02:21.060 --> 00:02:23.699 session because we hadn't rehearsed it, we hadn't practiced it. They just a 34 00:02:23.780 --> 00:02:30.530 general idea of what the common obstacles were that that Maddie was pretending to face. 35 00:02:30.569 --> 00:02:32.770 Yeah, and then how I would counsel. Yeah, I mean really, 36 00:02:34.129 --> 00:02:37.409 she did an amazing she job. When I watch the video, just 37 00:02:37.490 --> 00:02:39.210 kind of editing through it, which I didn't really edit anything out of it. 38 00:02:39.490 --> 00:02:44.879 Yeah, I was like wow, she she really has she's been out 39 00:02:44.919 --> 00:02:46.639 there a lot. Yeah, that's evident. So she knows some of the 40 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:51.759 things that the women say right that are going into the abortion center, and 41 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:57.039 I think she really conveyed some of the things that we experience out there on 42 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:00.469 the sidewalk. I'm out halfway through it. I was almostconvanced. Okay, 43 00:03:00.590 --> 00:03:04.509 is Maddie considering an abortion? Maybe something. It's he did a really good 44 00:03:04.550 --> 00:03:07.389 job. Yeah. So we're going to play that for you guys, and 45 00:03:07.430 --> 00:03:09.789 then we're going to come back and we're going to kind of critique that. 46 00:03:10.590 --> 00:03:14.659 We're going to say, Hey, what what good with this mock session? 47 00:03:14.939 --> 00:03:17.539 What could have gone gone better? And we're going to do it to help 48 00:03:17.860 --> 00:03:21.900 train and equip you guys, helps encourage you, guess. Yeah, and 49 00:03:22.139 --> 00:03:24.659 also do just put out there that we know we're not perfect. Vicki is 50 00:03:24.740 --> 00:03:30.090 probably, I've told people, the best sidewalk counselor that it has ever existed 51 00:03:30.169 --> 00:03:36.250 in the history forever. And yet Vicky doesn't implement things perfectly right. So 52 00:03:36.370 --> 00:03:39.889 we're going to make Vicki feel really bad by taking we just had an episode, 53 00:03:39.930 --> 00:03:44.520 what was our last episode, about dealing with dealing with Criticisi is that's 54 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:46.120 the way say. Know how to deal with it now. Yeah, I 55 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:49.439 can handle it, whatever you throw at me. It's all right. That's 56 00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:53.800 right. So we're going to criticize Vicki and really what we're going to find 57 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:58.590 is that Vicki did a phenomenal job and the Maddie did a phenomenal job and 58 00:03:59.229 --> 00:04:03.189 you guys are going to be blessed just to listen through this mock sidewalk counseling 59 00:04:03.310 --> 00:04:10.379 session. He there, my name is Vicki. My Name and numbers on 60 00:04:10.460 --> 00:04:14.180 the back of this information. Are you headed to the women's Center here? 61 00:04:14.539 --> 00:04:18.699 Yeah, do you know how far long you are? Um, I think 62 00:04:18.779 --> 00:04:21.899 about seven weeks. That's seven weeks. Okay, you know it's seven weeks 63 00:04:23.060 --> 00:04:28.129 that your child already has a beating hard and even has detectable brain waves. 64 00:04:28.490 --> 00:04:32.250 So we're here offering hope and help really, no matter what your situation is. 65 00:04:32.410 --> 00:04:35.649 But but tell me what, what is like? The main reason that 66 00:04:35.730 --> 00:04:40.680 you feel like you need to come and think about a boarding your child? 67 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.600 Well, I feel like there's a lot of reasons, but I just don't 68 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:46.560 have enough money. I don't have what I need. Okay, you don't 69 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:49.920 have enough money. All right, well, so, enough money. Who 70 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:54.829 you know what? Honestly, I think that probably every mother who's about to 71 00:04:54.870 --> 00:04:58.069 have a child really feel that way. I know I did. There's just 72 00:04:58.269 --> 00:05:01.149 really never enough money and the things that a baby needs. Is Is this 73 00:05:01.389 --> 00:05:05.709 first child? Actually it's not. I have a seven month Oho. Okay, 74 00:05:05.829 --> 00:05:09.420 so you guys seven month old. Is that one of the other reasons? 75 00:05:09.579 --> 00:05:13.740 Okay, so a couple things here, for first of all, that 76 00:05:14.500 --> 00:05:16.819 you know, yeah, those babies are close together, and that's probably really 77 00:05:16.939 --> 00:05:20.180 you're probably struggling even just thinking how am I going to take care of the 78 00:05:20.300 --> 00:05:25.050 one and take care of the other? But but first of all, just 79 00:05:25.209 --> 00:05:29.689 in terms of having enough money, we come with all kinds of resources that 80 00:05:29.889 --> 00:05:33.930 can help, even including a mentorship program where we can have a mom that'll 81 00:05:34.370 --> 00:05:38.600 been through this. We try to connect you with people who are in the 82 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:44.959 same situation as you've been that can walk walk through this with you. But 83 00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:48.160 also they provide a baby shower that will give like two full years of what 84 00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:53.709 your child will need, and and we have local pregnancy resource centers that will 85 00:05:53.750 --> 00:05:58.750 actually provide a lot of the needs of your child. One of the other 86 00:05:58.870 --> 00:06:01.790 things is just when you're thinking about not having enough money, sometimes you forget 87 00:06:01.829 --> 00:06:05.779 about some of the ways that that you can save money. Like, for 88 00:06:05.860 --> 00:06:09.540 example, there's the WIG program I don't know if you know about that, 89 00:06:09.740 --> 00:06:14.139 but where you know you can get formula and supplies for your child for free. 90 00:06:14.660 --> 00:06:19.129 There's food pantries and every everywhere that you save money in one place you 91 00:06:19.209 --> 00:06:24.250 know can go towards the money that you might need towards rent or something else. 92 00:06:24.649 --> 00:06:30.129 But the second thing that you said is your babies are really close together, 93 00:06:30.329 --> 00:06:32.279 and I get that. How so, your other one is seven months 94 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:35.040 old. You said, yeah, seven months old, and this one is 95 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:40.360 is six weeks in the womb. But you know the love of a child, 96 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:44.439 right. You got that seven month old. And would you send that 97 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:47.069 seven month old back? Oh, absolutely, absolutely not. So so you 98 00:06:47.350 --> 00:06:53.629 love that child and I guarantee you that that you bring the baby in your 99 00:06:53.750 --> 00:06:59.670 womb to term, you will have that same love for for that little baby. 100 00:07:00.310 --> 00:07:04.060 But I know they're close together. I know you probably are feeling already 101 00:07:04.100 --> 00:07:08.980 overwhelmed. I mean a seven month old is is. They're busy and it's 102 00:07:09.060 --> 00:07:13.259 and I I don't get like sleep and like what work and stuff is just 103 00:07:13.500 --> 00:07:16.329 it just seems like not manageable to have an eight. Yeah, yes, 104 00:07:16.449 --> 00:07:21.689 let me ask you. When do you think that that little baby in your 105 00:07:21.930 --> 00:07:29.170 womb became a baby? Is it a baby? I don't know, I 106 00:07:29.329 --> 00:07:33.680 guess I don't really know. I guess I just feel like it's not a 107 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:38.160 real baby until it's born. Okay. And and is that how you felt 108 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:42.600 about your other baby? I guess. So, okay, not until that 109 00:07:42.759 --> 00:07:46.110 baby is born. So a minute before that child's birth, you didn't really 110 00:07:46.149 --> 00:07:48.990 feel that that was a baby. Well, I guess I just feel that, 111 00:07:49.310 --> 00:07:55.149 because it was detached to me, that it wasn't actually a baby. 112 00:07:55.310 --> 00:07:59.259 Okay itself. Okay, so right now, that seven month old, if 113 00:07:59.300 --> 00:08:03.860 you put that seven month old in her crib and left the room for three 114 00:08:03.899 --> 00:08:11.019 weeks with that seven month old be alive when you came back? Mm Not, 115 00:08:11.139 --> 00:08:13.089 unless so, right, right. So someone, someone, it is 116 00:08:13.730 --> 00:08:18.490 all of us are dependent for for quite some time period as a human being. 117 00:08:18.529 --> 00:08:20.610 And that's kind of what you're saying, that that's some that little baby 118 00:08:20.689 --> 00:08:24.329 inside your womb is attached to you. Well, in a sense, so 119 00:08:24.569 --> 00:08:26.839 is your seven month old. But let me ask you. Do you believe 120 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:30.639 in God? Yeah, yeah, I believe in God. Okay. Do 121 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:33.639 you believe in Jesus? HMM, yeah, okay, okay, it is. 122 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:37.360 He your Lord. Do you think of him as Lord? I mean, 123 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:41.159 I guess so. Hey, he's Lord. Okay. So what do 124 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:46.629 you think that God would have you do? Because that little baby in God's 125 00:08:46.629 --> 00:08:52.470 eyes, the Bible says that that baby is the same as a born baby. 126 00:08:52.629 --> 00:08:54.590 God uses the same word. Bad, folks, is the word and 127 00:08:54.629 --> 00:08:58.299 the New Testament for a born baby in an UN born baby. And you 128 00:08:58.460 --> 00:09:03.500 probably know the six commandment if you know your Bible at all. But the 129 00:09:05.620 --> 00:09:07.860 that, I don't know what all. The top of the six commandment is 130 00:09:07.179 --> 00:09:11.370 thou shall not murder, and and murders a word that is reserved for human 131 00:09:11.409 --> 00:09:16.049 beings. Is that baby human in your womb? I guess. I guess. 132 00:09:16.129 --> 00:09:18.649 I'm yeah, not like a crocodile or anything. Right, right, 133 00:09:18.730 --> 00:09:22.610 it is a human being. Yeah, when do you think it became a 134 00:09:22.690 --> 00:09:28.919 human being? I guess it's always been a human right. Yeah, yeah, 135 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:33.159 it's that is logical from the moment of conception. And so the Bible 136 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:35.320 tells us, Jesus tells us, that we are to obey the commandment. 137 00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:37.909 And in fact he says, why do you call me Lord, Lord and 138 00:09:39.070 --> 00:09:41.909 not do what I say? So he wants us to obey the commandment. 139 00:09:41.509 --> 00:09:46.909 One of those commandments is thou shall not murder. So you've got two babies 140 00:09:46.110 --> 00:09:50.669 close together, one born, one unborn, and and you're feeling really, 141 00:09:50.710 --> 00:09:56.779 really overwhelmed. But Um, but is that a reason to kill one you, 142 00:09:58.340 --> 00:10:01.460 I assume you would not go and kill your seven month old. No, 143 00:10:01.820 --> 00:10:05.620 what I just I just feel that if God is loving, then he'll 144 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:09.330 forgive me. I don't feel like this is something God wants me to do 145 00:10:09.649 --> 00:10:16.090 necessarily. So do you think that God made a mistake? No, but 146 00:10:16.409 --> 00:10:20.289 maybe I did. Okay, who created life? Who Creates all life? 147 00:10:20.330 --> 00:10:24.879 God? God. So, if God doesn't make mistakes and God's the creator 148 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:28.840 of life, than that child. I old is not a mistake, logically 149 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:33.440 right. That child is a life. That child is a beating hard, 150 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:37.549 you know, up brain waves at six weeks, already arms, legs ahead, 151 00:10:37.590 --> 00:10:43.230 a spine beginning, fingers and toes, every organ. In the next 152 00:10:43.389 --> 00:10:46.590 week of this child's life in your roomb, every organ will be in place. 153 00:10:48.470 --> 00:10:52.460 So if God doesn't make mistakes and if he's the creator of life and 154 00:10:52.580 --> 00:10:58.580 he says I shall not murder, he's kind of giving you really what he 155 00:10:58.740 --> 00:11:03.139 would have you do. Right, what do you think that God would have 156 00:11:03.330 --> 00:11:07.169 you do? He would have me to keep baby. Would have you keep 157 00:11:07.210 --> 00:11:11.690 that baby? Right? How is does the dad know about this child? 158 00:11:11.690 --> 00:11:16.929 Yeah, he basically said that if I don't have an abortion, then he's 159 00:11:16.929 --> 00:11:20.759 leaving. So so he's kind of coursing you, he is pressuring you, 160 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.240 Din he's kicking you out. Okay, so first of all, you do 161 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:26.960 know, or maybe you don't know, but coercion is illegal. That that 162 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:31.360 he should not do that. It is against the law for someone to commerce 163 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:35.309 someone to a board. But did you know that most couples, I think 164 00:11:35.470 --> 00:11:39.070 the percentage in the the last article I read was sixty seven percent of couples 165 00:11:39.509 --> 00:11:46.779 who have abortion in their history together and up separating anyway. But I also 166 00:11:46.820 --> 00:11:52.659 want you to ask yourself, this man is asking you to kill the child 167 00:11:54.100 --> 00:11:58.899 you and he conceived together. Is that someone you really want to be with? 168 00:12:00.419 --> 00:12:03.570 I mean we've just if it's just we've been together for so long and 169 00:12:03.490 --> 00:12:07.570 he I live with him and, yeah, I don't want things to end 170 00:12:07.730 --> 00:12:13.850 thought way. Yeah, remember that. The the man is probably as scared 171 00:12:13.090 --> 00:12:18.960 and shocked as you were when you first saw that pregnancy test. And some 172 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.440 men do come around. But I think it's so important to think about if 173 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:28.000 a father is asking a mother kill our child, what does that say about 174 00:12:30.389 --> 00:12:37.149 his love and care for you? Right, yeah, so, is there 175 00:12:37.190 --> 00:12:45.980 any any conflict in your heart about taking that child's life? Yes, m 176 00:12:46.539 --> 00:12:50.179 yeah, well, let me let me tell you. We have many resources 177 00:12:50.299 --> 00:12:54.100 that can help you. Right over there, we have a mobile ultrasound unit 178 00:12:54.100 --> 00:12:56.940 and we can take you on right away and show your baby's beating heart. 179 00:12:56.940 --> 00:13:00.850 Would you be willing to continue to talk with me on there and I'll share 180 00:13:00.929 --> 00:13:07.610 more resources and we'll talk about some very concrete solutions for some of these issues 181 00:13:07.690 --> 00:13:09.289 say you face. That be okay, yeah, I think I would like 182 00:13:09.370 --> 00:13:13.039 that. Great. All Right, I'll take you over there right now. 183 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:18.720 Thank you. All right. Well, we're back. We hope that was 184 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:24.240 a blessing to you guys. We hope you kind of entered into that conversation 185 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:28.190 as you were listening through, and there is actually a video of that out. 186 00:13:28.870 --> 00:13:33.149 When this episode goes alive, there should be an article out on our 187 00:13:33.190 --> 00:13:37.110 sidewalks for life website and you guys can check that out. Within that article 188 00:13:37.190 --> 00:13:41.100 in the sidewalks for life website there will be a link to the youtube videos. 189 00:13:41.139 --> 00:13:46.860 If you wanted to watch that, you certainly could, but we're going 190 00:13:46.899 --> 00:13:50.700 to we're going to look at that conversation. Yeah, we're going to kind 191 00:13:50.740 --> 00:13:54.059 of summarize some of the main points. Yeah, because I think it's important 192 00:13:54.539 --> 00:14:03.330 to really verbalize what the flow of that conversation was, because it was very 193 00:14:03.570 --> 00:14:05.409 typical. Yeah. Well, one of the things that I think is really 194 00:14:05.450 --> 00:14:11.200 important that you did right away as you introduced yourself. Yeah, because this 195 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:13.799 is relationship building. We're trying to build trust with that young lady and one 196 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:16.879 of the ways that we do that is by introducing ourselves kind of tear down 197 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:20.879 those walls problem. So I'm not some Raven Lunatics, some protest or whatever, 198 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:24.149 but I'm Vicky Ye, here to offer you help. Yeah, and 199 00:14:24.269 --> 00:14:28.909 then the gentleness that you come across, and obviously that's that's very important, 200 00:14:28.950 --> 00:14:31.470 because we didn't want to come out of the gate right out, you know, 201 00:14:31.549 --> 00:14:33.950 right off the Bat, don't order your baby and just kind of go 202 00:14:33.549 --> 00:14:37.230 into, you know, frantic mode where we kind of scare them away. 203 00:14:37.230 --> 00:14:41.379 Yeah, so coming across with gentleness. Yeah, now I will offer it 204 00:14:41.460 --> 00:14:45.700 now. We've talked about this. So let's talk about this just for a 205 00:14:45.740 --> 00:14:50.100 second, because you introduced yourself right, but in that video I don't remember 206 00:14:50.139 --> 00:14:54.250 you asking her what her name was. I don't think I ever did until 207 00:14:54.289 --> 00:14:56.490 maybe at the end. I honestly to don't remember, but I did not 208 00:14:56.690 --> 00:15:03.049 at the beginning and I often do not. Yeah, and we have mentioned 209 00:15:03.090 --> 00:15:05.929 that, I think in the last podcast, maybe. But the reason I 210 00:15:05.129 --> 00:15:09.840 do not is that quite often I have found when I do, if if 211 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:16.799 I ask immediately, they they instantly hackles go up, suspicion goes up. 212 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:20.919 They they don't want to give me personal information. They're there to kill their 213 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:26.389 baby. They're mostly ashamed. Many are coming from hours away. So that 214 00:15:26.549 --> 00:15:30.590 their identity won't be revealed. So they have no idea what I'm going to 215 00:15:30.629 --> 00:15:39.580 do with that information and I purposely don't really don't ask them their name on 216 00:15:39.940 --> 00:15:43.740 often times until at the very end, sometimes not at all. Usually by 217 00:15:43.779 --> 00:15:46.539 the time I get to the end and I'm if they're going to go on 218 00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:48.019 the RV, I'll ask him. Yeah, or right before praying. I 219 00:15:48.100 --> 00:15:52.450 was because I want to use their name in prayer if they're willing to let 220 00:15:52.490 --> 00:15:56.889 me pray for them. But I know you do. Sometimes do ask their 221 00:15:56.929 --> 00:16:00.289 name. Yeah, right away. Yeah, I mostly don't ride away, 222 00:16:00.370 --> 00:16:03.370 though you have, for the same reason you said now. It just depends. 223 00:16:03.450 --> 00:16:06.559 It depends on if I can perceive that they're solved hearted and they're being 224 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:10.480 relational. Yeah, then I'll will go ahead and ask their name, but 225 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:14.080 mostly if they're if there's kind of that wall up, yeah, I want 226 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:17.240 to try to do everything I can to keep that conversation going and so I 227 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:21.830 don't want to shut the conversation down by asking them personal information to quickly and 228 00:16:21.950 --> 00:16:23.590 I will, like you said, if I'm if I've kind of given them 229 00:16:23.629 --> 00:16:27.549 everything I possibly can, I normally will kind of, I guess, close 230 00:16:27.669 --> 00:16:30.309 the deal. I don't know how it's to say it, but kind of 231 00:16:30.309 --> 00:16:34.259 wrap the conversation up with prayer and I will ask them for their name. 232 00:16:34.299 --> 00:16:37.940 Can I pray for you? And then I will use their name. Right. 233 00:16:37.940 --> 00:16:41.700 So I think one of the points here, with any of these conversations, 234 00:16:41.899 --> 00:16:45.620 is you've got to be walking with God, you've got to be led 235 00:16:45.659 --> 00:16:48.210 by the Holy Spirit. You got to do the best you can to yield 236 00:16:48.210 --> 00:16:52.769 to the Holy Spirit him, let him speak through you. And if you 237 00:16:52.850 --> 00:16:56.250 ask their name, you know right away. I can use that. I 238 00:16:56.370 --> 00:16:59.730 Spring Board off of that, like we kind of did an arm OC session 239 00:16:59.769 --> 00:17:02.639 when you said your name was faith, right, a couple episodes ago. 240 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:04.920 Yeah, I use that in my counseling. Do you have faith? You 241 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:07.599 know there's a God that you can put your faith in. Right, right. 242 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.400 So, yeah, it's general rule. I think you want to be 243 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:15.869 as relational as possible and sometimes that means he's always means you sharing what your 244 00:17:15.869 --> 00:17:18.390 name isn't you always do that? But asking them what their name is, 245 00:17:18.509 --> 00:17:22.630 yeah, you maybe want to read the situation a little better. Yeah, 246 00:17:22.670 --> 00:17:25.630 and at the moment that I asked her her name, and this is just 247 00:17:25.750 --> 00:17:29.829 second nature now, but it's a very important point. I'm extending my hand 248 00:17:30.019 --> 00:17:33.619 with the literature in it to her to take, yeah, from me. 249 00:17:33.740 --> 00:17:36.819 You mean when you shared your name, as as I'm saying hi, I'm 250 00:17:36.819 --> 00:17:40.779 Vicky, as I'm saying that, my arm is going out and and I'm 251 00:17:40.980 --> 00:17:45.690 offering the information, yeah, to her right away. Yeah. Now one 252 00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:49.769 of the next things that you did in that counseling session is you ask her 253 00:17:49.809 --> 00:17:53.769 how far along she writes. Now, we just talked about not getting to 254 00:17:53.970 --> 00:17:57.759 personally at yeah, because that can shut the conversation. Yeah, but there 255 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:02.440 does need to be a basis for the conversation that you do got to get 256 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:04.759 into some personal stuff. Yeah, so asking them how far along they are, 257 00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:11.240 and you'd be surprised actually, of how I easily they would give you 258 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:14.549 this information. Yeah, I think I'm eight weeks along or whatever. Yeah, 259 00:18:14.589 --> 00:18:18.349 or if they say they don't know, then we I'll instantly say something 260 00:18:18.390 --> 00:18:21.190 along the lines of what we can tell you. We can take you right 261 00:18:21.190 --> 00:18:23.789 now on our free mobile ultrasound unit and yeah, and tell you how far 262 00:18:23.829 --> 00:18:27.059 along you are. What is one of the important reasons, though, to 263 00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:30.940 know that information? Well, the most important for me is that then I 264 00:18:30.980 --> 00:18:40.420 can actually recite developmental facts about what is happening in that child, because most 265 00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:45.730 of them are at least five weeks if they've missed their period, at least 266 00:18:45.730 --> 00:18:49.130 five weeks. And I've got memorized the key developmental facts of the first really 267 00:18:49.250 --> 00:18:52.569 twenty weeks, but certainly if the first nine weeks, and so I can 268 00:18:52.690 --> 00:18:56.039 recite back. I think I did it in the video. Immediately start to 269 00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:00.400 tell some of the basic developmental facts. The hearts beating already. If you've 270 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.519 missed period by six weeks, brain brain waves are detectable by eight weeks every 271 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:11.190 organ and place. Those are three really key developmental facts and when you do 272 00:19:11.549 --> 00:19:18.390 that you are instantly humanizing the child right and showing that this is not just 273 00:19:18.630 --> 00:19:22.470 a blob of cells. And most of the women don't know. Yeah, 274 00:19:22.589 --> 00:19:27.299 no matter what the socalled pro choice people say, they do not know that 275 00:19:27.460 --> 00:19:32.740 the baby is that developed that early one. So No, one of the 276 00:19:32.819 --> 00:19:36.420 things that I find in my conversations is when I ask a woman how far 277 00:19:36.460 --> 00:19:37.769 along she is, you know, a lot of times they'll tell me right 278 00:19:37.890 --> 00:19:41.289 out, you know, I'm nine weeks, I'm eight weeks and ten weeks 279 00:19:41.289 --> 00:19:45.170 or whatever. But also a lot of times I'll find that they're actually dating 280 00:19:45.210 --> 00:19:48.130 themselves as early as possible. So they might say, well, I'm two 281 00:19:48.170 --> 00:19:52.329 weeks from three weeks. Well, yeah, probably not the case. Actually, 282 00:19:52.329 --> 00:19:55.440 as you drilled down into it, you find that they've actually dated themselves 283 00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:59.400 as early as possible because of the guilt factor, because they figure well, 284 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:02.359 if I'm from four weeks, this guy that's talking to me is not going 285 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.880 to judge me, yeah, for coming here whatever, because it's not yet 286 00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:10.190 a baby. And say date themselves as early as possible so that they can 287 00:20:10.230 --> 00:20:11.710 say, well, it's not really a baby. Yeah, and usually what 288 00:20:11.829 --> 00:20:15.069 I do when I hear that two or three weeks is I asked, Oh 289 00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:19.509 wow, you know you're probably further along. What was the last the first 290 00:20:19.509 --> 00:20:22.180 day of your last period? I'll I'll write to ask them that. Yeah, 291 00:20:22.220 --> 00:20:26.019 and I've gotten pretty good at calculating then how how far they along, 292 00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:32.859 are actually along, and it's almost always five weeks. It's almost always the 293 00:20:33.059 --> 00:20:37.369 earliest. UN rare occasion there's someone that that truly is only about four weeks. 294 00:20:37.529 --> 00:20:40.049 Yeah, along. Well, always will go, because I'm not going 295 00:20:40.049 --> 00:20:42.289 to drill into that. You may not as a man right. Well, 296 00:20:42.369 --> 00:20:45.009 I will go to the fact that, well, at the moment of conception. 297 00:20:45.170 --> 00:20:49.839 Your baby's got unique DNA, is a unique individual. Yeah, and 298 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:53.440 it just eighteen, twenty one days your baby's heart began to be so you 299 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:57.799 and if you're that early along, then your baby is still a human being. 300 00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:00.440 Yeah. So I could right to that. Yeah, and that that's 301 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:04.950 keep point to be able to to mention. And then then I think I 302 00:21:06.109 --> 00:21:10.990 moved into offering just general help. I don't yet know everything she's facing, 303 00:21:11.789 --> 00:21:14.509 just a general statement, Hey, we have hope and help for you, 304 00:21:14.750 --> 00:21:17.589 no matter what you face. We can help you. I'm really glad you 305 00:21:17.710 --> 00:21:22.019 stopped. Yeah. So, yeah, and then think the next point that 306 00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:26.339 you got into, which I think is it's one of the things I want 307 00:21:26.339 --> 00:21:29.259 to get right to as well as I'm a conversation with a woman at the 308 00:21:29.299 --> 00:21:32.500 abortion center. Is What brought you here. Right. What are your main 309 00:21:32.619 --> 00:21:36.250 obstacle, because I want to really find that there's there's probably a bunch of 310 00:21:36.329 --> 00:21:40.130 stuff going on her life, I would say relational stuff, financial stuff, 311 00:21:40.289 --> 00:21:44.329 health stuff, all these things that are going on, but there's there's probably 312 00:21:44.450 --> 00:21:48.079 of all of those things, one major thing, kind of like the straw 313 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:51.039 that broke the camel's back right, right, and I want to try to 314 00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:55.279 ask a question and I'll frame it in a couple of different ways, but 315 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:59.240 basically, why did you come here? Yeah, what is the thing that's 316 00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:02.190 going on in your life that makes you feel like abortion is an option for 317 00:22:02.269 --> 00:22:04.150 you? I ask it like that sometimes. Yeah, I'll ask it, 318 00:22:04.509 --> 00:22:08.150 you know, I'll maybe imply. Are you struggling financially? Is that why 319 00:22:08.190 --> 00:22:11.349 you've come here? Yeah, are you having an issue with your boyfriend? 320 00:22:11.589 --> 00:22:14.470 Is that what you've come here? So I'm going to ask it that way, 321 00:22:14.549 --> 00:22:17.940 but I want to try to really drilly into sometimes I'd even asked the 322 00:22:17.980 --> 00:22:21.779 question if we could take care of if I could promise you that we could 323 00:22:21.819 --> 00:22:26.140 take care of one thing that would keep you from going inside of that abortion 324 00:22:26.180 --> 00:22:29.539 center, what would that one thing be? Yeah, now ask you like 325 00:22:29.660 --> 00:22:32.609 that. Yeah, and it really kind of brings to the surface. What 326 00:22:32.849 --> 00:22:36.289 is that struggle? What is that main issue that brought her there? And 327 00:22:36.450 --> 00:22:40.690 then when she shares that, I'll give a corresponding resource. Well, if 328 00:22:40.769 --> 00:22:44.599 that's the case, here's how we can help. Right. And one of 329 00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:47.359 the things that I did in the video, and I think it is also 330 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:52.480 in general, a good technique, counseling technique, is to restate what they've 331 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:56.039 said. Yeah, reflect on what they've said, reach say it in another 332 00:22:56.119 --> 00:23:00.029 way to make sure first of all, you're making sure they know they've been 333 00:23:00.069 --> 00:23:04.910 heard. Yeah, they know you're not minimizing that obstacle, but for them 334 00:23:06.109 --> 00:23:11.859 to hear it from ant, from you, sometimes will help them to recognize, 335 00:23:11.900 --> 00:23:15.980 oh, maybe it's not as big a deal, right as I as 336 00:23:17.019 --> 00:23:19.220 I thought it was. But and then what you said, give give a 337 00:23:19.299 --> 00:23:25.859 general solution or specific solutions if you know if you have resources in your area 338 00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:32.730 that can specifically resolve that, whatever that obstacle is. It's important to to 339 00:23:33.210 --> 00:23:37.329 mention that. Then absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I think the point is 340 00:23:37.450 --> 00:23:41.960 that you're telling them their circumstance is not beyond the help that you have. 341 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:45.920 Right, right, if that situation might be. Yes, help their resources. 342 00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:49.279 Yeah, and there's time times to let them talk and to restate what 343 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:55.000 they're saying. And I but I think there is also g rate value in 344 00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:57.509 asking a lot of questions. First of all, you figure out what the 345 00:23:57.589 --> 00:24:02.789 true situation is. The more you ask questions, the more they divault why 346 00:24:02.869 --> 00:24:06.190 they're really there. Yeah, absolutely, what the what the root of that 347 00:24:06.390 --> 00:24:11.660 is, and so and that is the socratic method. It's a really good 348 00:24:11.779 --> 00:24:17.740 method of getting people talking. Yeah, and and truly revealing issues. Yes, 349 00:24:17.859 --> 00:24:19.859 to ask a lot of questions, and one of the major points, 350 00:24:19.900 --> 00:24:25.329 of course, asking a lot of questions is getting a lot of answers and 351 00:24:25.769 --> 00:24:30.210 listening correct those answer yeah, not just asking questions in such a way where 352 00:24:30.250 --> 00:24:33.410 you're getting their mouth moving, voter running. Yeah, but you've got information 353 00:24:33.690 --> 00:24:37.569 they're giving you to springboard off of. Yes, when you're asking these these 354 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:41.519 various questions, like what are the obstacles that you're facing? So make sure 355 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.759 when you're asking questions, you're actually listening and you're not thinking about what's my 356 00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:49.720 next question going to be? Right, yeah, which is hard sometimes because 357 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:53.750 you're on the spot. You do feel the urgency. You should not really 358 00:24:53.869 --> 00:24:59.670 show that you're feeling that urgency, but there is the urgency that they may 359 00:24:59.710 --> 00:25:03.470 at any moment decide to zoom away. Yeah, I knew in this session 360 00:25:03.549 --> 00:25:06.349 she was going to stay to the end, since it was a mock one, 361 00:25:06.829 --> 00:25:11.299 but in a real session you never know. Yeah, so I think 362 00:25:11.339 --> 00:25:15.500 that's why it's it's like a dance between the the counselor and, though the 363 00:25:15.660 --> 00:25:19.700 woman. In terms of that, you're asking questions, but you also want 364 00:25:19.740 --> 00:25:25.089 to make sure that that they know that they've been her so restating it to 365 00:25:25.250 --> 00:25:30.930 show that they've been heard and then spring boarding off on onto the next question. 366 00:25:30.569 --> 00:25:34.759 In our area, what I did next is we do have a very 367 00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:41.160 well established mentor program. Lots and lots of churches are connected and we have 368 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:45.440 a backlog of mentors. Fortunately, that may not be true in every area, 369 00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:48.079 but I know it was true in our area, so that as soon 370 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:55.789 as I could, I mention that that program and some of the things that 371 00:25:55.910 --> 00:26:00.670 that program the resources that that program can provide or link them with. So 372 00:26:03.349 --> 00:26:06.819 you want to ride away be giving them hope? Yeah, if they're there, 373 00:26:06.980 --> 00:26:10.220 they're hopeless. Yeah. No one shows up to an abortion center brimming 374 00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:15.099 with hope. So so the way that we instill hope obviously through the Gospel, 375 00:26:15.619 --> 00:26:19.250 but also through help, you, through tangible yeah, and it goes 376 00:26:19.250 --> 00:26:22.049 along the lines of those three talking points that we always push. You know 377 00:26:22.130 --> 00:26:26.369 what God says? Yeah, humanity, the baby and the resources that are 378 00:26:26.369 --> 00:26:32.329 available. Right, and a lot of times the conversation centers around the conversation 379 00:26:32.369 --> 00:26:34.960 about the Lord bringing God into the equation, centers around the resources that are 380 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:37.960 available yeah, and ultimately, the end of the day, these resources that 381 00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:42.119 we have or there because of God, because the provision of the Lord. 382 00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:48.390 Yeah, so in these conversations were always bringing him into view, right into 383 00:26:48.430 --> 00:26:52.150 the picture, because he's there anyway. They just don't acknowledge his presence a 384 00:26:52.230 --> 00:26:56.789 lot of times. And bring them in as early as you can, but 385 00:26:56.430 --> 00:27:03.019 not so sometimes it's not the very first thing. I'll say it's usual, 386 00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:07.420 but it's usually within the first third of the conversation, for sure. Yeah, 387 00:27:07.819 --> 00:27:10.140 that I want to mention. Well, what would God have you do? 388 00:27:10.220 --> 00:27:12.859 Do you believe in God? Yeah, I know. One of the 389 00:27:12.980 --> 00:27:17.369 things that you never want to do, in which I think you obviously you 390 00:27:17.490 --> 00:27:22.769 do well in these conversations, is you never want to minimize people struggles, 391 00:27:22.970 --> 00:27:27.609 right, even sometimes, as as ridiculous as those struggles might be, as 392 00:27:27.650 --> 00:27:32.839 ridiculous as some of the justifications might be. Yeah, and this situation, 393 00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:36.319 I mean there were some there's some struggles for sure, and they were common 394 00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:40.240 situations, by the way, they were the foremost common situations. That was 395 00:27:40.359 --> 00:27:42.839 the brief outline that we had given Maddie. These are going to be your 396 00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:47.150 issues, these four things. So I knew what her issues were. Going 397 00:27:47.150 --> 00:27:49.670 to be, but they are what we face the most often. Were the 398 00:27:49.750 --> 00:27:53.589 things that Maddie brought up. Yeah, I know. My wife was telling 399 00:27:53.630 --> 00:27:59.220 me at one point she was counseling with a moment the abortion center and of 400 00:27:59.339 --> 00:28:03.460 the like most ridiculous reasons to have an abortion, this was probably probably the 401 00:28:03.619 --> 00:28:08.180 most selfish and the most ridiculous. And yet you still have to hear, 402 00:28:08.420 --> 00:28:14.130 hear these these things out and keep your composure, not say that's ridiculous right, 403 00:28:14.289 --> 00:28:18.089 because of them. Obviously it's not ridiculous right, but you can kind 404 00:28:18.130 --> 00:28:22.809 of rephrase the the statement and help them to see how ridiculous that's. So, 405 00:28:22.009 --> 00:28:26.529 for example, this young lady was she didn't want to be pregnant because 406 00:28:26.690 --> 00:28:30.200 she was a stripper and it would hurt her business, it would hurt her 407 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.640 her ability to make money. And it's like you hear that, you realize, 408 00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:37.400 okay, this person is about to kill their child because they don't want 409 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:42.390 their vocation to be affected. How selfish and how ridiculous is that? But 410 00:28:42.670 --> 00:28:45.829 right, obviously a struggle with them. Yeah, and you know, you 411 00:28:45.950 --> 00:28:48.670 got to meet people where they are. Not doesn't mean you justify that and 412 00:28:49.069 --> 00:28:52.829 you and you don't really focus on the selfishness is wrapped up in that. 413 00:28:52.869 --> 00:28:56.660 But there's a way to phrase that. So what I'm basically saying it was 414 00:28:56.740 --> 00:29:02.140 when someone, if someone says something that's so outlandish and so ridiculous, yeah, 415 00:29:02.220 --> 00:29:06.579 and you just say that's ridiculous. You guys had the conversation that real 416 00:29:06.619 --> 00:29:08.539 quick right. It's our I have one. I can one up you on 417 00:29:08.579 --> 00:29:12.849 this one. That one. She, the woman, told me that she 418 00:29:14.009 --> 00:29:17.769 wanted to be able to fit into a bikini because beach weather was approaching. 419 00:29:17.849 --> 00:29:21.369 Yeah, and so that's why she was at then that's that's pretty bad. 420 00:29:21.490 --> 00:29:23.289 I mean, at least the stripper was trying to provide for her family, 421 00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:30.200 I guess. But the Bikini, there's nothing but selfish vanity that that is 422 00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.599 behind that. But, and honestly I can't remember what I responded, but 423 00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:41.950 I know I probably did try to say something like I I understand women feeling 424 00:29:41.069 --> 00:29:47.990 the need, oftentimes exaggerated need, to be beautiful before others, but listen, 425 00:29:48.109 --> 00:29:49.950 this is a person's life. Yeah, that we're talking about. So 426 00:29:51.029 --> 00:29:55.140 you can you can read phrase it in a way that is an insulting yeah, 427 00:29:55.259 --> 00:29:57.380 or too insulting. I think I just again you have to be careful 428 00:29:57.539 --> 00:30:03.940 not to just marginalize their concerns whatever, but bring them in view, like 429 00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:07.809 take that concern and bring it in view in light of what's happening right. 430 00:30:07.130 --> 00:30:11.250 So whatever that concern might be, you can bring it into the view of 431 00:30:11.289 --> 00:30:15.609 okay, well, you're about to kill a person because of this. Understand 432 00:30:15.690 --> 00:30:18.650 that. Yeah, and then also, whatever those struggles are, God sees 433 00:30:18.730 --> 00:30:23.039 them and God knows them. Yeah, and he's concerned about them, obviously, 434 00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:26.240 the struggles and things like that, and he's not necessarily concerned about the 435 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:30.839 stripper being able to continue to do what she wants to do, but he 436 00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:37.109 is concerned about the struggles and things and the pressure that those struggles bring to 437 00:30:37.230 --> 00:30:40.589 the point where a woman believes that abortion is a way of escape for her. 438 00:30:40.750 --> 00:30:42.710 So we need to bring the truth and to bring the truth into that 439 00:30:42.829 --> 00:30:48.869 equation. You know, another example is and we did an episode about adoption 440 00:30:48.990 --> 00:30:52.140 and how to mention adoption. Probably it was probably been a year ago, 441 00:30:52.180 --> 00:30:55.019 I would say, but it's an important subject because we get it all the 442 00:30:55.099 --> 00:31:00.099 time. Don't you mention adoption? We don't actually a lot mention adoption and 443 00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:03.059 like go back and listen to the episode, you can find out why we 444 00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:06.890 don't doesn't. Okay, we do mention adoption, but there's a time and 445 00:31:06.970 --> 00:31:10.609 a place for it. And when we do mention adoption, a lot of 446 00:31:10.690 --> 00:31:14.049 times, though, the reaction is, well, I can't give my baby 447 00:31:14.130 --> 00:31:18.920 to someone else, and so that's another like kind of ridiculous statement right where 448 00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:23.480 your in essence saying so you're you're telling me you can't give your child to 449 00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:29.079 another couple that you choose, but you can kill them. Do you see 450 00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:30.960 a ridiculous idea? So, when you hear that, though, my point 451 00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:34.829 is our reaction shouldn't be one of well, that's ridiculous. It should be 452 00:31:36.109 --> 00:31:38.990 hear them out, process what they're saying and then repeat it back to them 453 00:31:40.109 --> 00:31:41.670 in such a way, and we've done that before. So you're telling me 454 00:31:42.309 --> 00:31:47.380 that instead of giving this child life and placing that child with a couple that 455 00:31:47.460 --> 00:31:49.259 will love them and care for them, you would rather kill them. Right, 456 00:31:49.660 --> 00:31:53.140 that's that's that's not poopoo in their concern, right, but it is 457 00:31:53.220 --> 00:31:56.140 showing them their concern in the light of what's true. Right, and this 458 00:31:56.220 --> 00:31:59.779 is the same way and in the enny of these conversations. They might have 459 00:31:59.940 --> 00:32:02.410 concerns and struggles, but we want to, want to show them those struggles 460 00:32:02.490 --> 00:32:06.130 in light of the truth and light of the fact that they're about to kill 461 00:32:06.130 --> 00:32:09.369 her child and God has made provision for them. Right. Yeah, exactly. 462 00:32:09.529 --> 00:32:15.880 So as asking the questions that will help them to understand what the issue 463 00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:21.640 really is and oftentimes sets bringing them to that the issue truly is usually some 464 00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:24.519 sort of selfish yeah, selfish reason, but you don't need to, you 465 00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:28.119 know, label it with that. You can help them to come to that 466 00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:31.349 conclusion. Yeah, but pretty early on. So bringing God into the equation, 467 00:32:31.430 --> 00:32:36.589 and I love what I think at some point with with Maddie, early 468 00:32:36.750 --> 00:32:39.589 on, I talked about when did that child become loved or valued by God? 469 00:32:40.069 --> 00:32:45.059 That was something that I started after you came up with your fail safe 470 00:32:45.220 --> 00:32:50.059 pro life argument, which is truly a good one. It's not fail safe 471 00:32:50.099 --> 00:32:52.980 because people do still go and kill their baby after they hear it, but 472 00:32:53.140 --> 00:33:00.609 it is an argument that very few people can find a flaw with. Yeah, 473 00:33:00.569 --> 00:33:04.450 so that's when did God start loving you? Yeah, and then working 474 00:33:04.529 --> 00:33:07.769 them through to well where they you know, the only thing that makes logical 475 00:33:07.849 --> 00:33:12.250 senses from the moment of conception. I often have people say, Gee, 476 00:33:12.250 --> 00:33:15.480 I don't know they've never thought about it, and that's I think, a 477 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:21.759 key good counseling technique is to ask questions where you're provoking thought. Yeah, 478 00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:24.720 because oftentimes no one has thought about that. Gee, when did God start 479 00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:32.309 loving me? Or when did my baby or me become valuable? And those 480 00:33:32.349 --> 00:33:37.269 were questions that Maddie was great at, like saying Gee and saying now, 481 00:33:37.470 --> 00:33:42.500 I guess from the moment of conception. That is what I face when that's 482 00:33:42.619 --> 00:33:45.579 often the response. Yeah, when we ask that. Yeah, and I 483 00:33:45.940 --> 00:33:50.220 do want to mention here, because we talk about God, we bring God 484 00:33:50.259 --> 00:33:53.700 into the equation, and bringing scripture into view is really helpful. You know 485 00:33:53.779 --> 00:33:57.490 what the Bible says asking that question. Do you know what the Bible says 486 00:33:57.490 --> 00:34:00.089 about that? Yes, the Bible say about your baby? What does the 487 00:34:00.130 --> 00:34:04.210 Bible say about your struggles? What does the Bible say about the resources that 488 00:34:04.289 --> 00:34:07.210 God has available? And so bringing God into view, but also bring in 489 00:34:07.250 --> 00:34:12.599 scripture in, and I don't I think you should probably have your Bible. 490 00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:15.239 That's one of the critiques I would give. Have Your Bible right there and 491 00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:17.719 be able to point them to scripture. Yeah, it's hard to do again, 492 00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:21.800 especially if you're thumbing through your Bible and trying to find particular there's scriptures. 493 00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:23.909 We do have scriptures within the literature. The literature has scriptures there. 494 00:34:23.989 --> 00:34:29.670 Yeah, point too, but memorizing some scripture, even maybe having your Bible 495 00:34:29.710 --> 00:34:31.510 right there at the ready and whip it out and show him here's what the 496 00:34:31.510 --> 00:34:35.789 Bible says. I think it's sometimes is helpful, rather than just you repeating 497 00:34:35.829 --> 00:34:38.099 what the Scripture says, if you have the opportunity to open your Bible and 498 00:34:38.219 --> 00:34:42.820 show them here's what the Bible says. Would you be willing to read that? 499 00:34:43.059 --> 00:34:45.500 Get them to read something thirteen and fourteen or yeah, some of the 500 00:34:45.539 --> 00:34:52.340 other passages. They're really helpful. Yeah, and we do have some wonderful 501 00:34:52.380 --> 00:34:58.210 counselors who have actually put tabs in their Bible specifically for sidewalk counseling and you 502 00:34:58.369 --> 00:35:05.210 can get to those important scriptures right away. I have a poor vision with 503 00:35:05.929 --> 00:35:07.960 with a close I'd have to either bring a big, Big Bible and with 504 00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:13.639 all the other stuff that I have I can't. But I do have memorized 505 00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:17.840 the the most key important scripture, which was really hard for me because I 506 00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:22.750 have a terrible memory. But I have memorized the the most important scripture, 507 00:35:22.989 --> 00:35:29.429 but I agree with you it is better to actually show them in a Bible 508 00:35:29.869 --> 00:35:34.070 to show I'm not just making this yeah, and and to flip to the 509 00:35:34.150 --> 00:35:38.059 page. There is power in in God's in God's word. Yeah, yeah, 510 00:35:38.059 --> 00:35:42.300 I know. So, just you guys can't see because obviously we're doing 511 00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:46.099 audio, but we're going through actually just some points that we wanted to touch 512 00:35:46.219 --> 00:35:49.820 on in this flow of this mock session, and one of the points you 513 00:35:49.940 --> 00:35:55.250 have here is talking about God will forgive me all the time. Yes, 514 00:35:55.449 --> 00:36:00.329 say it all the time. Yeah, and she did say it. However, 515 00:36:00.369 --> 00:36:04.519 I that was one of the Cuz I'll make up myself. I did 516 00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:08.519 not respond to it. Yeah, and I think I responded to something else 517 00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:14.719 at that point. I heard it. Yeah, and typically what I will 518 00:36:14.760 --> 00:36:16.519 say when they say, well, God will just forgive me, I'll talk 519 00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:22.510 about why are you truly asking his forgiveness? Right, if what you're saying 520 00:36:22.710 --> 00:36:27.309 is I'm going to disregard what he says and I'm going to do it anyway. 521 00:36:27.309 --> 00:36:30.230 Yes, that asking forgiveness, or is that asking permission to sin? 522 00:36:30.510 --> 00:36:35.619 Right, you know, sometimes I will kind of ignore those statements because what 523 00:36:35.739 --> 00:36:37.699 I don't want to get into, and you again, you got to be 524 00:36:37.699 --> 00:36:40.179 led by the Holy Spirit, you got to read the situation best you can. 525 00:36:40.219 --> 00:36:44.699 But I don't want to get into a back and forth theologically. I 526 00:36:44.780 --> 00:36:47.289 don't want to have to give an apologetic for forgiveness and all this other stuff. 527 00:36:47.329 --> 00:36:50.889 We can talk about that at some point, but in front of the 528 00:36:50.929 --> 00:36:53.130 abortion center when that baby is about to die, I'm not going to get 529 00:36:53.170 --> 00:36:58.769 in some scriptural argument about forgiveness and all this other stuff with a mom that's 530 00:36:58.769 --> 00:37:00.760 going in to kill her child if I don't think that conversation is going to 531 00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:06.119 be productive. I think, and that's a really good point, is when 532 00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:10.760 do you jump on those statements? And I think when it is the major 533 00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:15.679 thing they're counting on. They're banking on God's forgiveness. Yeah, you need 534 00:37:15.710 --> 00:37:19.429 to address it, but it wasn't with Maddie and that might have been why 535 00:37:19.550 --> 00:37:22.670 my instincts were not to jump on it at because with Maddie there were some 536 00:37:22.829 --> 00:37:27.949 other pretty significant things she was bringing up and I think forgiveness was one of 537 00:37:27.989 --> 00:37:31.579 the rationalizations, but I don't think it was what was the the thing that 538 00:37:31.699 --> 00:37:37.500 was allowing her to go forth right the abortion? Yeah, absolutely nothing. 539 00:37:37.539 --> 00:37:40.820 Again, bringing to view that child and I might give it an analogy or 540 00:37:40.860 --> 00:37:44.369 something like that. If a woman says, well, God'll forgive me. 541 00:37:44.409 --> 00:37:46.769 Yeah, and I might give the analogies, especially if I'm already kind of 542 00:37:46.849 --> 00:37:51.849 set that stage for will God loved you and knew you before you were born. 543 00:37:51.929 --> 00:37:54.289 He also loves and knows your child before they are born, your child 544 00:37:54.289 --> 00:37:58.530 that you carry right now. And so I might say something like if someone 545 00:37:58.570 --> 00:38:01.519 came up and just killed you and they say, well, God'll forgive me, 546 00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:05.360 would that be okay? Is God just going to forgive that? As 547 00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:07.719 God okay with that? Because again, you're talking about killing a person and 548 00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:13.469 then using forgiveness as a justification to do that. Right, God is a 549 00:38:13.630 --> 00:38:16.789 forgiving God for those who repent, but those that do what I just describe 550 00:38:16.829 --> 00:38:22.510 to you or not really repentant. Right, yeah, exactly. So then 551 00:38:22.309 --> 00:38:29.260 we the conversation, spent a good bit of time talking about God. Then 552 00:38:29.420 --> 00:38:34.619 in the in the middle of this session with Maddie, at some just asking 553 00:38:34.780 --> 00:38:38.500 what she believed was Jesus Lord, what it means if Jesus is Lord, 554 00:38:38.900 --> 00:38:45.570 and then what would God have you do? And that question almost always is 555 00:38:45.809 --> 00:38:50.849 responded to exactly how Maddie responded with a pause. Yeah, kind of a 556 00:38:50.969 --> 00:38:55.400 deep sigh Ann and then, well, he wouldn't have me kill my baby. 557 00:38:55.639 --> 00:39:01.039 Almost always I've I don't know if I've ever had someone say God would 558 00:39:01.039 --> 00:39:05.000 would have me go forth and kill my baby. They'll say, well, 559 00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:09.510 God might forgive me or God will understand, but they know God would never 560 00:39:10.349 --> 00:39:15.510 say go kill your baby. Yeah. So I think of all the questions 561 00:39:15.550 --> 00:39:19.190 I ask, honestly, that to me is one of the most fruitful and 562 00:39:19.550 --> 00:39:22.190 one of the most most important. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, 563 00:39:22.190 --> 00:39:25.380 again bringing God into the conversation. What would he have you to do? 564 00:39:27.219 --> 00:39:30.739 Not just what do you what do you feel he's okay with you doing right, 565 00:39:30.940 --> 00:39:35.420 but if you directly heard from him, yeah, what would you hear? 566 00:39:35.699 --> 00:39:38.130 Yeah, life for death. Yeah, and so bringing that question to 567 00:39:38.210 --> 00:39:42.409 the forefront of their mind is really, really important. Yeah, I know 568 00:39:42.489 --> 00:39:45.730 you have here examine the relationship with the father, and I will bring that 569 00:39:46.130 --> 00:39:52.409 into the conversation where I'm talking about. Does the father of this baby know 570 00:39:52.570 --> 00:39:54.639 that you're here to be right and what does he think? Yeah, because 571 00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:59.280 I do know that if the man will step up and he say that he 572 00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:05.039 will support his child and this woman in keeping that baby more often than not 573 00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:07.750 she's going to choose to keep that job. Yeah, we had that happened 574 00:40:07.869 --> 00:40:12.389 just this week where there was a young man who is weeping. He came 575 00:40:12.469 --> 00:40:15.429 to US weeping, saying that he could he could not convince her. He 576 00:40:15.590 --> 00:40:19.230 didn't know what to say to her, but he did not want the baby 577 00:40:19.269 --> 00:40:22.940 to die. And she was in there and we told him exactly what you 578 00:40:23.059 --> 00:40:27.179 said, you know. We asked him, well, have you ever told 579 00:40:27.219 --> 00:40:30.260 her I love you, I love that child and I'll do whatever it takes 580 00:40:30.300 --> 00:40:31.980 to support you in that baby? And he said well, no, yeah, 581 00:40:32.059 --> 00:40:34.900 I said, well, call her right now and tell her that and 582 00:40:35.019 --> 00:40:40.090 she left. That she ended up leaving. So it is important to figure 583 00:40:40.130 --> 00:40:46.530 out what the father the baby is thinking and if the father the baby is 584 00:40:46.610 --> 00:40:51.639 not supportive, which is, like you mentioned and I think Maddie and the 585 00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:55.519 arm conversation said was the case. If the father's not supportive, then you 586 00:40:55.559 --> 00:41:01.679 can continue to ask more questions, and one of them that I often ask 587 00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:07.550 is if this person that you say you love is telling you that, despite 588 00:41:07.630 --> 00:41:13.030 your deep concerns about killing your own child, that he wants you to kill 589 00:41:13.070 --> 00:41:16.190 your child. Is that a person that you really want to be with. 590 00:41:16.349 --> 00:41:21.139 Yeah, and they often say no, right, and they often say that 591 00:41:21.219 --> 00:41:24.780 it makes them feel very bad. Yeah, that that the father told them 592 00:41:24.820 --> 00:41:28.219 to kill their baby, and that is, I think, what I did 593 00:41:28.539 --> 00:41:34.809 with with Maddie. But asking directly if there's a conflict in your heart. 594 00:41:34.889 --> 00:41:39.969 Sometimes we kind of avoid that, but I think sometimes direct questions. Is 595 00:41:40.090 --> 00:41:45.690 Their conflict? Are you feeling like you're not sure that you want to kill 596 00:41:45.730 --> 00:41:50.599 your baby? That's an important question. Yeah, because if there is conflict, 597 00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:53.800 then you can say, well, which voice do you think is? 598 00:41:54.280 --> 00:41:58.639 Is God speaking to you? Right, which part, which side of that 599 00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:01.110 conflict, is coming from God and which do you think is coming from the 600 00:42:01.150 --> 00:42:07.670 enemy of your soul, and help them identify the battle. Yeah, the 601 00:42:07.750 --> 00:42:10.469 spiritual battle that is raging. And Yeah, and your kind of, in 602 00:42:10.590 --> 00:42:15.389 that sense, doing what God says. He says, I set before you 603 00:42:15.510 --> 00:42:19.179 this day life and death, blessing and cursing therey. So you're kind of 604 00:42:19.219 --> 00:42:22.019 laying that out. Okay, let's just be real. Yeah, let's just 605 00:42:22.219 --> 00:42:25.739 boil this thing tell to down to its most basic element. Yeah, God, 606 00:42:25.980 --> 00:42:30.409 is it before you life and death. Right, is there conflict in 607 00:42:30.449 --> 00:42:34.090 your heart between those two? And if so, and they're always is. 608 00:42:34.769 --> 00:42:37.730 Yes, which one is the right thing to choose? That's right. Life 609 00:42:37.769 --> 00:42:42.010 for death. Yeah, because, honestly, that's not how they have framed 610 00:42:42.130 --> 00:42:46.960 the conflict. Course, they have framed the conflict life of the baby versus 611 00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:52.039 all this struggle I'm going to face. Yeah, as opposed to boiling it 612 00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:58.480 down to truly what is the root conflict? Life of the baby versus death 613 00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:02.710 of the baby. Yeah, obeying and following God versus rebelling and denying God's 614 00:43:02.750 --> 00:43:07.150 clear word. And when you boil it down to the root issue, then 615 00:43:07.150 --> 00:43:13.420 they have to really deal with what they are doing in terms of God and 616 00:43:13.780 --> 00:43:16.619 what God says. Absolutely, and that's a mean yeah, that's key in 617 00:43:16.940 --> 00:43:21.980 again, it gives it gives the Holy Spirit the ability to move like you're 618 00:43:22.019 --> 00:43:25.139 I mean, he's already obviously already moving, but you want to give space 619 00:43:25.179 --> 00:43:28.570 for the Holy Spirit to speak to their hearts. Yes, as you can 620 00:43:28.570 --> 00:43:30.650 say a lot of stuff, you can use a lot of good techniques and 621 00:43:30.730 --> 00:43:34.849 all of that, and you know we should employ good techniques, but at 622 00:43:34.849 --> 00:43:37.809 the end of the day, the Holy Spirit is the one that has to 623 00:43:37.889 --> 00:43:40.880 convict them and convince them that what they're doing is wrong in killing their child 624 00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:44.880 and that they need to trust the Lord. Yeah, and so we've got 625 00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:49.119 again make ourselves a condoment for the Holy Spirit to speak to them. Yeah, 626 00:43:49.239 --> 00:43:52.079 give him space to speak to their hearts and, you know, I 627 00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:57.429 trust that, as we do, that God's God's going to do something right. 628 00:43:57.469 --> 00:44:02.630 Yeah, it also helps you to remain calm through and and I think 629 00:44:02.710 --> 00:44:07.670 that is absolutely critical. Yeah, that you remain calm through the whole discussion, 630 00:44:07.789 --> 00:44:13.219 not frantic, if you are truly trusting it's up to God. Yeah, 631 00:44:13.500 --> 00:44:15.900 bottom line, it's up to God, in the Holy Spirit and this 632 00:44:15.059 --> 00:44:17.780 woman, not me. I can do my best, I will do my 633 00:44:17.940 --> 00:44:23.219 best, but it's not up to me how it's going to end. It's 634 00:44:23.260 --> 00:44:27.650 right to God. That allows you, I think, to stay calm, 635 00:44:27.690 --> 00:44:31.090 yeah, through the discussion. Absolutely, yeah, realizing that the results are 636 00:44:31.090 --> 00:44:34.610 up to the Lord. Right, but doesn't mean that we're just passive, 637 00:44:34.650 --> 00:44:37.880 right, right, we're we're not passive when we're trying to flag people down, 638 00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:40.079 get them to stop and talk with us, and we're not passive when 639 00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:45.960 we're speaking the truth of God. We're kind of like we're actively surrendered to 640 00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:50.599 the Holy Spirit and actively acknowledge that it's the Holy Spirit that's doing the work. 641 00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:53.269 We're just there to plant seeds, we're there to water seeds, but 642 00:44:53.389 --> 00:44:57.630 God gives the increase. Yeah, and that really does take the pressure off 643 00:44:57.670 --> 00:45:00.110 of us. It does, since I want to encourage you guys with especially 644 00:45:00.230 --> 00:45:04.269 folks that are new and you're maybe feeling all this pressure of I want to 645 00:45:04.309 --> 00:45:07.659 say the right thing at the right time, and all of this was in 646 00:45:07.699 --> 00:45:10.619 the pressure is off. We've just got to be condoents for the Holy Spirit. 647 00:45:10.699 --> 00:45:14.579 Make ourselves available. You're going to mess up, you're going to say 648 00:45:14.699 --> 00:45:19.099 things that you maybe shouldn't up said. You're going to, I don't know, 649 00:45:19.340 --> 00:45:22.690 maybe forget to say things that you should have said. Or that's going 650 00:45:22.769 --> 00:45:25.050 to happen. Happens to me, it happens to you. Yeah, right, 651 00:45:25.130 --> 00:45:28.409 viggy. There's things that you should have said, we would have said 652 00:45:28.409 --> 00:45:30.809 or whatever. Yeah, you can never say everything perfectly. You can never 653 00:45:30.889 --> 00:45:35.719 say everything that needs to be said. You're just making yourselves available to the 654 00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:38.639 Holy Spirit and letting him speak through you and leaving the results up to the 655 00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:44.079 Lord. And Yeah, yeah, can change their hearts if they harden their 656 00:45:44.119 --> 00:45:47.599 hearts. That's between them and God. Right, and and something that I 657 00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:53.389 think new counselors are less hesitant to do. But is important is kind of 658 00:45:54.670 --> 00:46:00.429 give the final course of action. And in the case of the discussion with 659 00:46:00.510 --> 00:46:04.780 Maddie, it was all right. You know, we've talked about all these 660 00:46:04.820 --> 00:46:08.059 issues. Now, are you ready? Will you go on the ultra sound 661 00:46:08.059 --> 00:46:10.900 and look at your baby speeding heart? Yeah, and and she said she 662 00:46:12.139 --> 00:46:17.460 would surprise. Surprise. Yeah, exactly. But uh, but it's the 663 00:46:17.539 --> 00:46:22.050 same. And Sharing The Gospel sometimes where hesitant. We lay it all out 664 00:46:22.050 --> 00:46:24.610 there and then we don't want to give an invitation because we're afraid will lose. 665 00:46:24.929 --> 00:46:29.130 They'll say no. Yeah, but if you don't give the invitation, 666 00:46:29.210 --> 00:46:32.719 they also can't say yes. Right. So that's true in sharing the Gospel 667 00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:37.199 at I believe, and it and it's true in a discussion with them. 668 00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:42.320 Give them the positive thing, invite them to the positive thing they need to 669 00:46:42.440 --> 00:46:45.920 do. Now, can I set up an appointment right now for you for 670 00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:50.230 an ultra sound it? Can I sign you up for the mentorship program something 671 00:46:50.630 --> 00:46:54.349 that is can I schedule, you know, D Altra Sound, which we 672 00:46:54.469 --> 00:47:00.550 actually provide here in Charlotte, but something that is the positive choice for life, 673 00:47:00.909 --> 00:47:06.099 at least a step away from the abortion center and into that positive choice 674 00:47:06.500 --> 00:47:08.980 is really important. Yeah, that's what it is powerful for us to be 675 00:47:09.019 --> 00:47:12.940 able to point directly to the RV and say, would you just go on 676 00:47:13.019 --> 00:47:15.769 board that RV right there? Would you go on board that mobiltra sound unit 677 00:47:15.849 --> 00:47:20.250 and see your baby right and if you've got a pregnancy center, maybe you 678 00:47:20.250 --> 00:47:23.849 don't have a mobile unit right there. Maybe there's a pregnancy center ten fifteen 679 00:47:23.849 --> 00:47:28.289 minutes down the road. That's that's another thing. Would you go? Would 680 00:47:28.289 --> 00:47:30.599 just let me make you an appointment? I'll call them up right now, 681 00:47:30.280 --> 00:47:34.920 or here's the directions. Go over there and just see them. Or, 682 00:47:35.559 --> 00:47:38.360 like you said, maybe ceiling at you again, for lack of a better 683 00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:42.320 term. Sealing the deal. Yeah, I'll see the deal in prayer. 684 00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:44.750 Can I just pray for you? Yeah, can I just pray for you, 685 00:47:45.269 --> 00:47:47.590 and then I'll be praying not just for them, I'm bring at them. 686 00:47:47.710 --> 00:47:50.869 Lord, help them to see the value of their baby. Help them 687 00:47:50.869 --> 00:47:52.590 to see that going inside of that place is not where you would have them 688 00:47:52.630 --> 00:47:55.909 to go. So there does come a point where you need to wrap up 689 00:47:55.909 --> 00:48:01.420 the conversation. Yeah, you can just going endlessly and gives nowhere. And 690 00:48:01.500 --> 00:48:06.659 now I think ultimately laying that choice between life and death out for them. 691 00:48:07.699 --> 00:48:10.340 Again, it's between them and the Lord. But it is helpful to have 692 00:48:10.579 --> 00:48:14.889 a place for them, an alternative for them to go to rather than going 693 00:48:15.010 --> 00:48:16.889 into the abortion center. And that could be let's say you don't have a 694 00:48:16.969 --> 00:48:21.250 pregnancy center, let's say you don't have a mobile unit there. You don't 695 00:48:21.250 --> 00:48:24.449 really have a place to send them take them for coffee. So would you 696 00:48:24.489 --> 00:48:28.880 be willing to just to turn around, just follow me up here to McDonald's 697 00:48:28.880 --> 00:48:30.559 and will have coffee? Yeah, just get them awake, them away from 698 00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:34.960 there. Could be that. I could you guys be creative, some some 699 00:48:35.480 --> 00:48:38.079 thing to get them away from there. Yeah, because we know that that 700 00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:45.230 place has a just demonic drawl to it, right, and they even, 701 00:48:45.309 --> 00:48:51.469 like intentionally, the abortion centers will call these women who are maybe talking to 702 00:48:51.510 --> 00:48:53.590 you out in the road or wherever they're late for their appointment. Right at 703 00:48:53.590 --> 00:48:57.019 right. That happened. Yeah, at that having get them to come on 704 00:48:57.139 --> 00:49:00.579 in. So getting them away from there I think is important. Right, 705 00:49:00.619 --> 00:49:07.340 right. And in terms of a long sharing of the Gospel, almost never 706 00:49:07.860 --> 00:49:12.969 do I do that. Car Side. I will introduce the Gospel, but 707 00:49:13.090 --> 00:49:16.809 in terms of a full sharing of the Gospel. If they're willing to hear 708 00:49:16.889 --> 00:49:21.929 it and there's still they're still sounding abortion determined to, then I will. 709 00:49:22.010 --> 00:49:24.320 But in Maddie's case I didn't by knew I was going to have time. 710 00:49:24.679 --> 00:49:28.960 Yeah, you know, with with her on the RV. Right. So, 711 00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:32.199 so let's look at some of the things real quick as we're sort of 712 00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:37.000 wrapping up this episode that you did. Right, we've done some critique just 713 00:49:37.159 --> 00:49:43.989 through this so far, but let's give some positive critique first and then we'll 714 00:49:44.030 --> 00:49:47.389 do the negative critique, which the positive is a much longer list, right, 715 00:49:49.590 --> 00:49:55.099 actually know I is. Actually. So. The first thing is the 716 00:49:55.219 --> 00:50:00.940 gentle tone and we talked a about being gentle, having a gentle tone. 717 00:50:01.340 --> 00:50:06.219 Gander loves you to say the tone sets the tone. Yep, your tone 718 00:50:06.219 --> 00:50:07.690 will set the tone. That's right. So if you come across as like, 719 00:50:08.570 --> 00:50:15.130 you know, angry, demanding, accusatory, then the conversation is probably 720 00:50:15.130 --> 00:50:16.489 not going to go very far, right. But if you have an inviting 721 00:50:16.570 --> 00:50:20.570 tone, if you have a gentle tone, if you have an approachable tone, 722 00:50:21.170 --> 00:50:22.760 people are going to be more apt to engage with you in conversation. 723 00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:30.239 Yeah, so you did present the three talking points that we talked about. 724 00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:32.559 You went through those as are woven through the whole conversation, right, which 725 00:50:32.679 --> 00:50:36.949 God resources, humanity of the baby? Yeah, right, and then, 726 00:50:36.989 --> 00:50:39.590 of course you brought God into the discussion. Who can help but bring the 727 00:50:39.710 --> 00:50:44.110 Lord into the discussion, right? I mean that's ultimately he's the one they're 728 00:50:44.110 --> 00:50:46.510 accountable to and he's the one that made that baby and he's the reason why 729 00:50:46.550 --> 00:50:51.260 we're out there ourselves, right, even if they're atheist. Yeah, we 730 00:50:51.380 --> 00:50:54.059 always do try to weave got into the discussion. Yeah, and you know, 731 00:50:54.300 --> 00:51:00.420 we've talked about this before where I've said basically, if you ask me 732 00:51:00.539 --> 00:51:05.809 not to talk about God, it's kind of be an impossibility for me because 733 00:51:06.210 --> 00:51:08.090 I love him, the reason I'm here. He's a reason about it. 734 00:51:08.250 --> 00:51:13.210 Right. So if I do have an atheist that I'm talking to and they 735 00:51:13.250 --> 00:51:15.730 say you just not talk about religion, talk about God, I'll say, 736 00:51:15.769 --> 00:51:20.480 you know, my response normally is I'll do the best. I cannot just 737 00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:23.679 kind of I'm not trying to ram religion down your throat. Listen, I 738 00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:28.239 love the Lord, I believe in Him. He loves you. I'm gonna 739 00:51:28.239 --> 00:51:30.519 have a hard time not talking about him. He's like the reason I'm here, 740 00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:34.909 and that says volumes right there. Yeah, and so, yeah, 741 00:51:34.909 --> 00:51:37.789 I'm not just trying to be purposefully offensive. When they say don't talk about 742 00:51:37.789 --> 00:51:43.469 God, just, you know, start intentionally just quote and scripture to him 743 00:51:43.469 --> 00:51:45.510 or something like that. But it's not like that can help it. Right, 744 00:51:45.510 --> 00:51:47.059 I'm going to quote scripture, I'm going to talk about the Lord. 745 00:51:49.780 --> 00:51:53.099 But yeah, I mean you did that awesome and you ask some questions. 746 00:51:53.179 --> 00:51:59.019 Yeah, you got to ask questions, right, and again, listening for 747 00:51:59.059 --> 00:52:01.050 the answers and all that engaging. This is this is supposed to be a 748 00:52:01.289 --> 00:52:07.289 conversation. Yeah, a discussion, a dialog, and you're again you your 749 00:52:07.369 --> 00:52:10.730 relationship building, you're trying to build trust with them, you're trying to tear 750 00:52:10.809 --> 00:52:15.079 down those walls. You're trying to bring the Lord into the equation. But 751 00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:20.000 God, God uses people, Right. Yeah, and so you're trying to 752 00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:24.280 make yourself a person that God is using in that discussion. And you know, 753 00:52:24.760 --> 00:52:28.480 look at Jesus, look at at the life of Jesus. He asks 754 00:52:28.599 --> 00:52:31.869 questions, right, he's engaging into us, questions and told stories. That 755 00:52:31.949 --> 00:52:37.429 was Jesus is main way of convicting people. He would ask questions and tell 756 00:52:37.909 --> 00:52:43.309 the parables. So we should use that that. He's our model. So 757 00:52:43.469 --> 00:52:45.739 when we can, we should use those, those techniques. Yeah, yeah, 758 00:52:45.900 --> 00:52:52.340 and then, just as by the way of some maybe negative criticism, 759 00:52:52.420 --> 00:52:54.260 I don't know, critique, critique, Tique, way said, we can 760 00:52:54.300 --> 00:52:59.409 improve. Yeah, right, you never asked her name. Right, I 761 00:52:59.449 --> 00:53:02.170 knew already talked about that, but she knew it already. Right, and 762 00:53:02.449 --> 00:53:06.210 we already talked about that. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't write, 763 00:53:07.489 --> 00:53:09.409 and you didn't really focus on the God will forgive me thing, which we've 764 00:53:09.409 --> 00:53:13.400 already talked about that too. Sometimes, again, you focus on that. 765 00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:17.039 Sometimes you need to focus on that and sometimes you just again, we're not 766 00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:22.400 out there to have some back and forth theological discussion with a woman going into 767 00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:23.800 the abortion center. We're out there to try to convince her not to kill 768 00:53:23.800 --> 00:53:30.789 her child, not to talk about all the other theological things. I mean, 769 00:53:30.829 --> 00:53:34.750 I've had conversations with women in front of the abortion center and into a 770 00:53:34.829 --> 00:53:39.070 fault because really I should not have taken the bait where they're talking about the 771 00:53:39.190 --> 00:53:43.179 doctrine of once saved, always saved or something like that, and they want 772 00:53:43.179 --> 00:53:45.500 to go about how, you know, because they were saved when they're years 773 00:53:45.500 --> 00:53:49.460 old, they're Christian and they can ever lose their salvation so they can go 774 00:53:49.539 --> 00:53:52.500 kill their baby, right. And so I've fallen into the trap of want 775 00:53:52.500 --> 00:53:57.010 to explain certain here's what the scripture actually says and here's what the Bible says, 776 00:53:57.050 --> 00:54:00.369 and trying to tear down that false understanding of salvation and all of that. 777 00:54:00.730 --> 00:54:04.329 Yeah, it really went nowhere, because all they want to do is 778 00:54:04.409 --> 00:54:07.409 argue, and so the best thing to do when you perceive that they're just 779 00:54:07.489 --> 00:54:10.639 want to argue with you, is just ignore that and continue in with really 780 00:54:10.760 --> 00:54:14.400 why they're they're they're there to take the life of their baby. Yeah, 781 00:54:15.559 --> 00:54:19.440 and you know, beyond that, I don't really have a lot of other 782 00:54:19.519 --> 00:54:23.000 criticism. I thought the conversation went excellently. I feel like we need to 783 00:54:23.079 --> 00:54:27.070 do more of those sort of things as mock sessions. I really think they 784 00:54:27.110 --> 00:54:30.750 are equipping for people and again, me just listening through it myself, I 785 00:54:30.670 --> 00:54:35.469 was I was like encourage an impact and I'm like man, this is this 786 00:54:35.670 --> 00:54:38.900 is really equipping. Yeah, I agree. I think that role playing and 787 00:54:39.059 --> 00:54:42.820 for all of you, if you're new out there, just getting a friend 788 00:54:42.940 --> 00:54:45.940 to sit and do a similar sort of thing and tell them be tough on 789 00:54:45.059 --> 00:54:49.460 me, have them throw I told Maddie, don't be tough on me, 790 00:54:49.539 --> 00:54:52.809 I'm going to be filmed. But but if you can get someone who's, 791 00:54:52.849 --> 00:54:57.170 who is at least a little bit knowledgeable about, yeah, what what you 792 00:54:57.210 --> 00:55:00.849 might face, and having them really give you the tough responses, if you've 793 00:55:00.889 --> 00:55:04.570 practiced it, it is helpful. The Holy Spirit will take over in the 794 00:55:04.650 --> 00:55:09.639 real situation and sometimes, like I know I've told this story before where the 795 00:55:09.760 --> 00:55:14.679 first person I counseled, when she came over to talk with me, I 796 00:55:15.400 --> 00:55:17.920 had just no experience, I had no idea what to say and I all 797 00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:22.389 I did was hold out a little baby model and started crying. Yeah, 798 00:55:22.429 --> 00:55:27.110 and that woman chose life. So just know that you you will be. 799 00:55:27.349 --> 00:55:30.829 The Holy Spirit is there right with you, but it does help if you 800 00:55:30.909 --> 00:55:35.630 can be prepared. It does help your confidence absolutely. Yeah. Well, 801 00:55:35.710 --> 00:55:37.900 guys, we hope this was a blessing to you and we do encourage you 802 00:55:37.940 --> 00:55:40.340 to reach out to us. Reach out to me, Daniel at Love Life 803 00:55:40.380 --> 00:55:44.059 Dot Org. You reach out to her, Vicky at Love Life Dot Org. 804 00:55:44.420 --> 00:55:47.659 If you have suggestions for future podcast episodes, we'd love to cover those. 805 00:55:47.699 --> 00:55:52.050 Those subjects if we feel like they would be a blessing. As we 806 00:55:52.130 --> 00:55:55.809 said in the beginning of this please share this podcast with others and with that, 807 00:55:57.010 --> 00:56:05.679 we hope you have a blessed day. God bless our love for love. 808 00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:16.880 Give me our love for gratitude. I know it will cost me my 809 00:56:17.199 --> 00:56:24.590 life. Nothing's too precious in some you