Are Abortion Minded Women Victims?

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:06.440 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me, Lord, 2 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:10.509 I am your. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. In 3 00:00:10.630 --> 00:00:13.910 this episode we're going to ask the question. Are Women who've had abortions or 4 00:00:13.949 --> 00:00:18.589 women considering abortion victims? This is an important question, so please stay with 5 00:00:18.670 --> 00:00:34.700 us. I felt show passish touch your all right, welcome to the Gospel 6 00:00:34.740 --> 00:00:38.689 Center pro life podcasts. We're going to talk about or ask the question, 7 00:00:39.130 --> 00:00:45.770 or abortion minded women victims or aboard of women? Are they victims? There's 8 00:00:45.810 --> 00:00:50.119 a lot, you know, in pro life circles and people talk about the 9 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:53.799 victimization of women through abortion and certainly, you know, we're going to talk 10 00:00:53.799 --> 00:00:57.759 about some of that. How there are certainly women that are victims. Yeah, 11 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:00.560 but there's this mentality that people have that, you know, women are 12 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:04.510 simply just victims of the abortion industry, victims of Plan Parenthood, victims of 13 00:01:06.030 --> 00:01:11.870 you know whatever, abortion pushing politicians or whatever. And you certainly there's some 14 00:01:12.590 --> 00:01:17.709 truth to that, but there's a mentality that I think we need to we 15 00:01:17.790 --> 00:01:22.420 need to address and that we need to have and have an understanding of as 16 00:01:22.540 --> 00:01:26.659 prolifers. That and that we need to address. We need to reject that 17 00:01:26.780 --> 00:01:30.659 women are just simply victims it. You know, the the the old adage, 18 00:01:30.700 --> 00:01:34.810 I guess, that there are two victims in an abortion. And while 19 00:01:34.930 --> 00:01:40.450 that can be true in some sense, it's not entirely true and I think 20 00:01:40.450 --> 00:01:42.370 we need to look at it from you know, there's sort of a big 21 00:01:42.450 --> 00:01:46.969 picture thing, right. Abortion is sin. It's one of many sins that 22 00:01:47.090 --> 00:01:52.040 human beings create and that societies embrace. And you know, if we just 23 00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:55.879 embrace the idea that abortion minded women are a board of women are victims and 24 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:59.959 as everyone else who commit sin, or they also victims. And you know, 25 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:04.269 one sense yes, but in one sense no. We have to reject 26 00:02:04.349 --> 00:02:07.909 the victim mentality, right. Or if you are a victim, is it 27 00:02:07.069 --> 00:02:13.669 okay to to do it, terrible sin, in order to somehow get out 28 00:02:13.669 --> 00:02:17.659 of the mess that has been created thrust upon you? Yes, a victim, 29 00:02:17.740 --> 00:02:22.539 that's good. The important question, you know, based on just saying 30 00:02:22.580 --> 00:02:27.620 that, and we were talking before we started recording about the the situation, 31 00:02:27.659 --> 00:02:30.250 maybe I'm jumping the gun a little bit, but I think it has a 32 00:02:30.289 --> 00:02:32.650 lot of theological implications. We talked about the first murder, we talked about 33 00:02:32.650 --> 00:02:38.169 Kane enable. Yeah, and and you matter of fact was just jump into 34 00:02:38.210 --> 00:02:44.050 that. I'll read that that portion of scripture it it was interesting because I 35 00:02:44.129 --> 00:02:46.800 was reading it this morning and it really did jump out to me that it 36 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:51.759 actually related very much to what we were talking about the first murder. What 37 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:57.080 motivated it? What was God's response? What were the people involved their response? 38 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:00.469 Yeah, yeah, so this is in genesis chapter four and it talks 39 00:03:00.509 --> 00:03:05.310 about how Kane and Abel to when you were born. Says that Abel was 40 00:03:05.349 --> 00:03:07.750 a keeper of sheep, but Kane was a tiller of the ground and in 41 00:03:07.830 --> 00:03:13.300 the process of time came that cain brought an offering of fruit to the Lord 42 00:03:13.379 --> 00:03:15.939 the free of the ground, and able also brought the for the first fruit 43 00:03:16.300 --> 00:03:20.659 of his flock, of their fat, and the Lord respected able and his 44 00:03:20.780 --> 00:03:25.219 offering, but he but he did not respect Kane and his offering. And 45 00:03:25.300 --> 00:03:29.370 there's a lot of stuff people go with that try to figure out why he 46 00:03:29.530 --> 00:03:34.050 honored Abeles sacrifice they didn't honor Kane sacrifice. I don't think that's really part 47 00:03:34.090 --> 00:03:38.009 of what we're going to be talking about. But basically, as the Lord 48 00:03:38.090 --> 00:03:40.409 goes on, it says that Kane or ISS a scripture goes on, it 49 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:44.159 says Kane was very angry and his countenance fell, and so the Lord said 50 00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:46.599 the Kane, why are you angry? Why is your Countenan's fallen? If 51 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:50.520 you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not 52 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:53.080 do well, sin lies at the door and it's desires for you. But 53 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:57.710 you should rule it, you should rule over it. And it says Kane 54 00:03:57.750 --> 00:03:59.870 talked with his brother Abe. When it came to pass, as they were 55 00:03:59.909 --> 00:04:01.509 in the field, Kane rose up against Abel, his brother, and killed 56 00:04:01.550 --> 00:04:05.750 him. And so that's sort of that. That's the first murder, right. 57 00:04:05.870 --> 00:04:10.460 We believe the abortion is murder, right, and that's the first murder. 58 00:04:10.620 --> 00:04:13.979 That's that was committed and we can talk a little bit about you know, 59 00:04:14.060 --> 00:04:16.379 I did see as I was reading this, I could see where Kane 60 00:04:16.459 --> 00:04:20.259 could consider himself a victim. I'm not saying he was yet that that's a 61 00:04:20.379 --> 00:04:24.970 good or correct perception, but I think you could make the case for it. 62 00:04:25.170 --> 00:04:29.569 He he was rejected, he was not respected. It said that Abel's 63 00:04:29.810 --> 00:04:33.769 offering was respected. Canes was not so. So right away we know that 64 00:04:33.930 --> 00:04:40.680 Kane felt disrespected. His countenance fell, which means to me feels depressed, 65 00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:46.199 just depressed. He's angry, he's depressed, he's been hurt and he's been 66 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:51.279 hurt by presumably the one that he wants to please. We would assume that 67 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:58.709 he brought his offering at least with some desire to please and some degree of 68 00:04:58.790 --> 00:05:03.389 obedience, right, and and so and and it was rejected. And so, 69 00:05:04.389 --> 00:05:08.819 you know, I can relate. I mean you could say one sense 70 00:05:08.860 --> 00:05:15.060 Kane was traumatized most exactly. And and was his response at to we get 71 00:05:15.100 --> 00:05:19.500 to his response yet I don't think we did to Caine's response, that that 72 00:05:19.620 --> 00:05:24.009 he murdered. Yeah, we read, we were there. So his response 73 00:05:24.129 --> 00:05:28.930 was clearly not a good response, not a healthy response, but it was 74 00:05:29.009 --> 00:05:32.250 a response of in in one way, you could look at it, of 75 00:05:32.730 --> 00:05:41.079 a victim, h traumatized, hurt, damaged by by God. Yeah, 76 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:45.399 and and his response was murder. Yeah, and I think that is not 77 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:49.389 all that different in some ways of what we see at at an abortion center, 78 00:05:49.430 --> 00:05:54.949 right or in any sort of sin. When we look at those situations, 79 00:05:54.990 --> 00:05:58.870 that we can say, you know, you people ultimately are victims of 80 00:05:59.550 --> 00:06:02.110 you know, our own our own sin, our own decisions that we make. 81 00:06:02.230 --> 00:06:04.740 We're victims of a fallen world. At this point. You know, 82 00:06:04.819 --> 00:06:09.579 Kane was in the fallen world. Adam and eve had already sinned and and 83 00:06:10.019 --> 00:06:13.779 they were ejected from the garden. And so, you know, he could 84 00:06:13.779 --> 00:06:16.180 say he was a victim, I guess. But one of the things that 85 00:06:16.220 --> 00:06:18.889 I that we have to be careful of them. We're talking about in particular 86 00:06:18.889 --> 00:06:25.810 about abortion minded women, are post abortive women, is sort of giving some 87 00:06:26.009 --> 00:06:30.529 kind of almost like leeway to that sort of behavior, that because they're victims, 88 00:06:30.529 --> 00:06:32.720 because they were in difficult situations, therefore we should look at them in 89 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:38.639 a particular way. Right, and the perspective is different. was certainly with 90 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:43.160 abortion minded women and post abortive women. We shouldn't look at them as less 91 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:46.759 than human beings, we shouldn't look at them as like just filthy and we 92 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:50.709 should not talk to him or anything like that. But the other mentality of 93 00:06:50.829 --> 00:06:54.629 we should just look at them and vic as victims is not right either. 94 00:06:54.829 --> 00:07:00.269 And it's because abortion is a sin like many other sins, right that people 95 00:07:00.389 --> 00:07:04.100 choose to do right. If we if we see abortion as a different sin, 96 00:07:04.660 --> 00:07:09.620 then we're sort of falling into the trap of making abortion somehow worse than 97 00:07:09.699 --> 00:07:12.779 other sins. And it is worse than some other sins, that's sure. 98 00:07:12.939 --> 00:07:15.620 I think in the Scripture we see that there there's a sin that leads to 99 00:07:15.699 --> 00:07:18.449 death and it's and not not leading to death. So we do see this, 100 00:07:19.129 --> 00:07:21.209 that there are sins that are worse than others, and that can be 101 00:07:21.250 --> 00:07:27.370 a conversation for a whole other or whole other podcast. But if you look, 102 00:07:27.490 --> 00:07:30.839 but if you victims, you can also look at it almost that well, 103 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:34.439 they can't help it. It is almost express sort of where I'm going. 104 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:39.120 Okay, yeah, we're it excuses that behavior, right, and just 105 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:42.519 as much as it does not excuse the behavior of a woman who, you 106 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:46.470 know, abuses and murder her three year old because she's he was raising about 107 00:07:46.509 --> 00:07:50.189 a family and her boyfriend was abusive. You know, the mother who murders 108 00:07:50.230 --> 00:07:55.870 her child three weeks or maybe three months old in the womb. Is Still, 109 00:07:56.550 --> 00:08:00.819 though she has difficult situations and circumstances, it's not okay. We can't 110 00:08:00.860 --> 00:08:05.379 validate that behavior based on the trauma that she's been through. Right. We 111 00:08:05.740 --> 00:08:11.019 fall into that trap of making abortion somehow this different sin, and yes, 112 00:08:11.259 --> 00:08:15.649 different in ways, but sin still leads to separation from God, no matter 113 00:08:15.730 --> 00:08:20.009 what sin it is, and sin is is destructive to other people and also 114 00:08:20.089 --> 00:08:22.930 to those, yeah, who? Yeah, I meant the same. So 115 00:08:22.050 --> 00:08:26.689 the discussion isn't is is we want to make it very clear. The discussion 116 00:08:26.730 --> 00:08:35.559 about whether abortion, people who have abortions are victims are not. That is 117 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:37.759 not to ever excuse abortion. Yeah, the point of it is that that 118 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:46.870 analyzing and understanding whether they are victims or not victims helps us to better know 119 00:08:46.990 --> 00:08:50.509 how to serve them honestly and how to respond. And that's that's sort of 120 00:08:50.549 --> 00:08:52.389 the point, in less, why I think this podcast is important. Right. 121 00:08:54.070 --> 00:08:56.460 You know, I mentioned, as we were talking before the PODCAST, 122 00:08:56.700 --> 00:09:00.299 about volunteer years that we've had. Sure, people have come out and they 123 00:09:00.379 --> 00:09:03.139 see what we're doing, they see sidewalk counseling or even, I'm sure, 124 00:09:03.179 --> 00:09:07.259 in pregnancy centers to they want to they want to reach these poor innocent victims, 125 00:09:07.259 --> 00:09:11.049 these women who need save him and save them right from from being victims 126 00:09:11.090 --> 00:09:16.929 of abortion. Right, and I get it. It's noble. However, 127 00:09:16.129 --> 00:09:18.690 when we have people come out and they come out for the first time with 128 00:09:18.809 --> 00:09:22.850 this mentality. Not all, but some do come out with this mentalities. 129 00:09:22.850 --> 00:09:26.399 Yeah, women are poor, innocent victims and they're exposed to the women that 130 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:30.840 they thought were victims, who are actually, as I believe was John Wesley 131 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:33.480 or George Whitfield said in his day, these people are monsters of iniquity. 132 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:37.159 That's a term that he used, and preaching the Gospel that human beings are 133 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:41.590 monsters of iniquity. Right, we love our sin, right. And and 134 00:09:41.070 --> 00:09:43.509 you see that an abortion clinic? Yeah, you do. I mean they 135 00:09:43.590 --> 00:09:48.710 come out there thinking these these these poor women who have led such such terrible 136 00:09:48.750 --> 00:09:52.899 lives and are being forced into these terrible choices, and then you know, 137 00:09:52.019 --> 00:09:56.700 you're being sworn at and kicked and and given the finger whatever, and you 138 00:09:56.779 --> 00:10:01.899 realize, wow, these are these are something rough, victims, victims, 139 00:10:03.019 --> 00:10:05.700 and you know. So I'll share one story. I share this with a 140 00:10:05.740 --> 00:10:07.649 lot of people who have that mentality. These women are just poor, innocent 141 00:10:07.730 --> 00:10:11.370 victims of their circumstances and we need to see him as victims. You know, 142 00:10:11.409 --> 00:10:15.250 I had a young lady who came this is for her fifth abortion. 143 00:10:15.289 --> 00:10:18.129 Yeah, okay, and she came and she got out of her car and 144 00:10:18.169 --> 00:10:20.090 I was reaching out to her like we normally do. Hey, man, 145 00:10:20.129 --> 00:10:22.399 we have help available, we have a ultrasound right here. We want to 146 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:24.960 help you, and she said, I'm going to kill this baby, she 147 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:28.279 said. If I could spit it out of my mouth right now, I 148 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:31.600 would. I'm like, okay, this is not a thing now, this 149 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:33.600 is and this is what I'll say. Many of the women, not I 150 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:37.110 prefaced that, many of the women, I don't say all of them, 151 00:10:37.110 --> 00:10:41.149 because we were going to talk about were, but many of the women that 152 00:10:41.190 --> 00:10:45.990 we encounter are not victims. They are victimizers and they full well know that 153 00:10:46.070 --> 00:10:48.789 their baby is alive. They've seen ultra sounds because they've some of them had 154 00:10:50.100 --> 00:10:54.019 previous abortions or they've had previous children and they know that they have a living 155 00:10:54.059 --> 00:10:58.019 baby. Some of them are feeling their baby movings out of their women and 156 00:10:58.220 --> 00:11:01.700 they could care less. That's right, they could care less. Well or 157 00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:03.370 not it's a life. They could care less whether or not God values that 158 00:11:03.529 --> 00:11:07.169 life. We see him with their middle fingers up all the time. I'm 159 00:11:07.169 --> 00:11:09.889 sure people in pregnancy centers, I know my wife is, shared stories. 160 00:11:09.970 --> 00:11:13.850 She works and in a couple of pregnancy centers and she shared stories of women 161 00:11:13.889 --> 00:11:16.809 who come in there and they are they are dead set, yeah, for 162 00:11:16.850 --> 00:11:20.200 lack of a better term, on having an abortion and they could care less 163 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:22.600 if they're harming another person. That's right. That is not a victim, 164 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.960 right, that is a victimizer. Right, right. And so so maybe 165 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:31.799 leaping into you know, e make, I think, a really important point. 166 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:33.830 I think anyone who's been on the front lines of an abortion center would 167 00:11:33.830 --> 00:11:37.309 probably agree, agree with this at there are some who are like that, 168 00:11:37.429 --> 00:11:46.429 who are just hardened, angry, defiant, often times that just with no 169 00:11:46.620 --> 00:11:50.940 respect for God. Yeah, and in fact mocking and mocking God. Yeah, 170 00:11:52.740 --> 00:11:56.940 that that is definitely a group. But but there are other groups that 171 00:11:56.179 --> 00:12:00.019 that you see as well, other ways that you could characterize some of the 172 00:12:00.100 --> 00:12:03.970 women and and I would think the bulk of them actually probably fall into what 173 00:12:05.129 --> 00:12:07.090 we have just described, most of them. When seeing the majority, it 174 00:12:07.210 --> 00:12:11.330 does seem victimizer than the victim. Yeah, it does. But but I 175 00:12:13.049 --> 00:12:16.120 was thinking about this as we were discussing this podcast and I think that there 176 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:18.720 are two other groups that I that I do see out there, and one 177 00:12:18.759 --> 00:12:24.039 of them I would truly classify as victims. Yeah, they I think they're 178 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:31.190 rare, but but they are out there and you know, I I'll give 179 00:12:31.190 --> 00:12:35.909 you some examples. We had a young teenager, I'll just call her m 180 00:12:37.230 --> 00:12:41.710 these are true stories. And she came. She was sixteen, Fifteen or 181 00:12:41.789 --> 00:12:46.740 sixteen when she came. She's been brought by her boyfriend, but her grand 182 00:12:48.740 --> 00:12:52.820 mother was was coursing, forcing, telling her she she had to have this 183 00:12:52.940 --> 00:13:01.090 abortion. And so the team came with with the the boyfriend, but it 184 00:13:01.169 --> 00:13:05.049 also was very coercive, like very he was. He was forcing her as 185 00:13:05.129 --> 00:13:07.850 much as the GRANDMAM. I think he was helping to pay for it. 186 00:13:09.490 --> 00:13:13.320 And and but the teen had already plotted. She really did not want an 187 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:18.600 abortion. She knew it was wrong. She wanted the baby. Yeah, 188 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:22.960 and she had already plotted out how she was going to escape. And so 189 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.950 she came aboard the RV. We we shared our resources and actually ended up 190 00:13:28.950 --> 00:13:33.429 driving her home. And because she didn't want to be anywhere near the the 191 00:13:35.629 --> 00:13:41.230 boyfriend who was pounding on the RV door and Rednin us and and the next 192 00:13:41.309 --> 00:13:46.299 day the grandmother actually tricked her into her car, told her they were going 193 00:13:46.379 --> 00:13:54.740 to pediatric Doctor Appointment and withheld medication that this girl needed for diabetes, I 194 00:13:54.820 --> 00:13:58.250 think it was, and drove her to the abortion center. And this this 195 00:13:58.450 --> 00:14:03.690 girl figured it out as she was part way there. And and when the 196 00:14:03.809 --> 00:14:09.370 car paused I think it was slowing down for a stoplight. She jumped out 197 00:14:09.409 --> 00:14:13.480 of the car, rolled down a hill ran as fast as she could to 198 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:16.720 a warehouse where she called me. Yeah, and I got involved immediately. 199 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:22.519 The police got involved in ultimately this mom it was a wild story, but 200 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:28.590 ultimately cities for life and and a wonderful, safe family helped this young lady 201 00:14:28.590 --> 00:14:33.070 and she had the baby and the babies alive and well. But in the 202 00:14:33.389 --> 00:14:37.590 Lord sort of turn the heart of the grandmother to Right Ivan. Yeah, 203 00:14:37.269 --> 00:14:41.259 and I think there were issues with the grandmother, mental issues as well, 204 00:14:41.299 --> 00:14:45.460 but she did end up embracing the child in the team ultimately, and I 205 00:14:45.500 --> 00:14:48.299 don't know what happened to the father of the child. I didn't follow the 206 00:14:48.340 --> 00:14:52.210 story that far. But but I would no doubt in my mind that was 207 00:14:52.250 --> 00:14:56.289 a victim. Yeah, that was a victim. And if we hadn't been 208 00:14:56.409 --> 00:15:01.330 there and this girl had not been so resourceful, and how many teenagers would 209 00:15:01.330 --> 00:15:03.490 do that and would dare, would have the courage to do that? You 210 00:15:03.610 --> 00:15:07.600 know, I have no doubt that that that team would have been forced into 211 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:11.600 an abortion and that that to me, is a victim. Yeah, there's 212 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:18.519 and there's I actually have lots of stories of that sort of person. But 213 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:22.950 I'll move on to what I think would be the second class or classification. 214 00:15:24.509 --> 00:15:26.590 lost. So so let's talk about that. Because, okay, within this 215 00:15:26.710 --> 00:15:31.549 classification, you know, whatever classification or sort of the way we're viewing it's 216 00:15:31.590 --> 00:15:33.629 not like there's some you know, right, we're making it up at clinicalize 217 00:15:33.750 --> 00:15:39.019 exactly, but it's just what we observes. The victimize, right, and 218 00:15:39.139 --> 00:15:41.419 then you have with that you have the the person that's coerced. Right, 219 00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:46.100 I have what are we category? What's our category for that? They are 220 00:15:46.179 --> 00:15:48.980 victims. They are two victims, you know, the sexual I didn't mention 221 00:15:50.129 --> 00:15:52.769 that, and that that I think they are victims, the victims of the 222 00:15:52.889 --> 00:15:58.090 sex trafficking, trafficking that that sex trafficking is huge in our area and it's 223 00:15:58.169 --> 00:16:02.690 huge, I think, in most cities that those are oftentimes truly victims. 224 00:16:02.769 --> 00:16:07.240 They cannot escape and the the person, the PAMP, whoever whatever he's called, 225 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:12.759 that is in charge of those girls is very skilled at keeping them terrified 226 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:18.830 and under his control and they just even if the police get them alone, 227 00:16:18.230 --> 00:16:22.590 sometimes they will not speak up against what they're going through. A lot of 228 00:16:22.629 --> 00:16:26.909 fear for their life or for their family, these lives. Yeah, yeah, 229 00:16:26.950 --> 00:16:29.309 it's then. That's the point. That's what I want to touch on. 230 00:16:29.350 --> 00:16:32.269 Also want to mention another that I've encountered, I'm sure you have to, 231 00:16:32.830 --> 00:16:36.940 at the abortion clinics, which is people who are foreign in which is 232 00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:40.620 some of these the sex trafficking cases. You know, these are foreign women 233 00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:42.740 who, you know, have been traffic to the United States and all of 234 00:16:42.820 --> 00:16:45.740 that, and it's like there's there's, you know, language barrier, culture 235 00:16:45.779 --> 00:16:51.210 barrier, there's this you're out of your element and there's just this ability for 236 00:16:51.250 --> 00:16:55.570 these these pumps to manipulate and all of that that. Yeah, but also 237 00:16:55.649 --> 00:16:59.409 I counter women at the abortion clinic, mostly Hispanic, who come to the 238 00:16:59.450 --> 00:17:03.799 abortion clinic who are told by the Health Department or told by their ob doctor 239 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:08.319 that their baby was already dead, they're having a miscarriage and they need to 240 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:11.920 go to this place and they don't know where they're going. They you need 241 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:14.400 to go to this place and take care of the problem. This place, 242 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:18.269 of course, is the abortion clinic. These OBIE doctors and these health department 243 00:17:18.390 --> 00:17:22.589 people are full have full knowledge of where they're sending them. Sure these women 244 00:17:22.750 --> 00:17:26.150 genuinely don't know they're going to an abortion clinic and some of them, I 245 00:17:26.390 --> 00:17:32.019 know, have gone through with an abortion because they believe the person in the 246 00:17:32.019 --> 00:17:36.180 lab coat. They believe the person that seems to have have the authority with 247 00:17:36.339 --> 00:17:38.420 and they sent us here. And also, after all, I've got a 248 00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:41.220 you know, respect this person because they have a lab coat, they have 249 00:17:41.259 --> 00:17:45.250 a tied or whatever, and what they're telling me is right. You know, 250 00:17:45.329 --> 00:17:47.730 I have a problem at this place is going to handle it for me. 251 00:17:47.970 --> 00:17:49.769 Yeah, and and you know, we've had women who have been sent 252 00:17:49.849 --> 00:17:55.049 to the abortion clinic who are told they're miscarrying and, by God's crazy we're 253 00:17:55.049 --> 00:17:56.730 able to get them on more the mobile unit and find out there baby still 254 00:17:56.769 --> 00:18:00.400 alive and actually not miscarrying. Right, and they choose live. Right, 255 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.720 you know, and I want to peep back us a victim of just blatant 256 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:07.880 lie, absolutely, and of people that that that they should be able to 257 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:14.109 trust. And there was a woman who came stopped by with with her living 258 00:18:14.230 --> 00:18:17.950 child, her whole family, in fact, not long ago she pulled over 259 00:18:18.109 --> 00:18:23.029 and said that she had been told by the health department that that she had 260 00:18:23.470 --> 00:18:27.819 to abort her baby or they would remove her other children from the home. 261 00:18:29.099 --> 00:18:33.059 Yeah, I mean that's a victim. That's someone who is being victimized by 262 00:18:34.259 --> 00:18:41.019 government agency. That is disgusting and wrong. And and so, you know, 263 00:18:41.299 --> 00:18:44.849 thankfully, she she was showing US her baby. She had chosen life, 264 00:18:44.930 --> 00:18:47.569 right. She yes, she did. She did, she did. 265 00:18:47.849 --> 00:18:52.170 She went to the abortion center and actually the reason she didn't fall for it 266 00:18:52.529 --> 00:18:56.680 is she got we got a hold of her. She stopped and talked to 267 00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:59.400 us and we said, they can't do that, do not worry and we 268 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.279 will help you fight that. And so I I wasn't here at the at 269 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:07.640 that time. I think it was eight years ago, but it was cities 270 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:11.269 for life. Yeah, that that helped her and that helped her overcome that 271 00:19:11.230 --> 00:19:17.029 blatant lie. Yeah, that would you know? They I think that there 272 00:19:17.150 --> 00:19:22.269 is this this perception among many that, okay, these are poor people, 273 00:19:22.710 --> 00:19:26.500 they can afford to have these children. They're going to be on social services. 274 00:19:26.259 --> 00:19:30.740 It'd be better off for everyone. Yeah, if they just to puchase. 275 00:19:30.779 --> 00:19:33.380 There's child total. Yeah. Yeah, it's Godless, God choice that 276 00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:37.940 you have the choice to say what's right, what's beneficial to her and her 277 00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:41.890 friendly as far as that goes. Right. So, yeah, I mean 278 00:19:41.930 --> 00:19:44.609 that's that to me. Would be in the category of victims, which is, 279 00:19:44.730 --> 00:19:48.210 I think, one of the reasons why that when we're at an abortion 280 00:19:48.289 --> 00:19:49.849 clinic, and will course continue on with with some of this other but we're 281 00:19:49.890 --> 00:19:52.559 at an abortion clinic, we do need to be aware of that. Even 282 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:56.920 though it's not the majority and and there may be days where we're there and 283 00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:59.640 they're none of the women that fit in one of these categories. Right, 284 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:03.880 we still need to be sensitive to these situations and the way that we address 285 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:07.829 people is sort of like, you know, we sort of believe the best 286 00:20:07.829 --> 00:20:10.829 until we're given a reason to put to believe otherwise. So if I see 287 00:20:10.829 --> 00:20:14.309 a woman come into middle fingers up and she's cousin, I'm not going to 288 00:20:14.589 --> 00:20:15.910 approach her and talk to her. The same way if I see a woman 289 00:20:15.950 --> 00:20:18.430 go in her heads down and tears and right, yeah, you know, 290 00:20:19.470 --> 00:20:26.259 typically with that sort of blazing, you know, brazen just anger and bitterness, 291 00:20:26.299 --> 00:20:27.660 I'll just may be stinging with a little bit of truth. You know, 292 00:20:27.740 --> 00:20:32.579 your baby is precious inside of God. Don't kill your baby and pretty 293 00:20:32.619 --> 00:20:36.130 much just let the Lord deal with them. But when you see him and 294 00:20:36.210 --> 00:20:38.410 again, we have to being be considering. There can be some of these 295 00:20:38.490 --> 00:20:42.690 young ladies who are being cours being forced sex trafficking victims, that when they 296 00:20:42.730 --> 00:20:48.809 get out of their vehicle and they're going into the abortion clinic, making ourselves 297 00:20:48.849 --> 00:20:52.039 a way of escape that they can see. You know, the Bible says 298 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.839 and every temptation, God is faithfuling gives us a way of escape. That's 299 00:20:55.839 --> 00:21:00.799 how well counselors, as prolife ministers and whatever realm we're in, we need 300 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:04.509 to be seen as a way of escape, right, and we would literally 301 00:21:04.670 --> 00:21:08.029 call out if you are being coerced, all you need to do is yell 302 00:21:08.150 --> 00:21:11.549 help, come to us. We would call a police yeah, and so 303 00:21:11.789 --> 00:21:17.109 you do need to make judgments. Sometimes, there's that word again, judge. 304 00:21:17.190 --> 00:21:21.299 We have to judge, make judgments about is this person being coerced? 305 00:21:21.339 --> 00:21:26.420 There are certainly signs that that we can look for an either in sec trafficking 306 00:21:26.619 --> 00:21:33.049 or in just a mother coercing her team. That's illegal and because that, 307 00:21:33.250 --> 00:21:34.569 you know, if you make that judgment, then you're going to call out 308 00:21:34.650 --> 00:21:41.849 differently. Yeah, to to to help them in whatever situation that they're in, 309 00:21:41.690 --> 00:21:45.170 to let them know that we are the way out, we are help. 310 00:21:45.329 --> 00:21:49.200 They can call on us and we will help them. So should we 311 00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:52.039 move on to what we think might be the the you know, kind of 312 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:56.440 our again, we're just making this up, but I think it is based 313 00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:00.359 on certainly based on experience, experience, it's based on what we've said, 314 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:03.789 at least on what I've seen out there. There are those, like we 315 00:22:03.829 --> 00:22:07.109 said, the true victims, and then a second category, though, are 316 00:22:07.190 --> 00:22:11.869 those who, I think you called it, victim of their circumstances, and 317 00:22:11.990 --> 00:22:18.099 I think that that's a good way of labeling it. I called it they're 318 00:22:18.220 --> 00:22:22.500 in crisis and they've lost their mind. Yeah, they just really these are 319 00:22:22.900 --> 00:22:27.259 typically people who who would make a choice, maybe for God, certainly for 320 00:22:27.460 --> 00:22:33.130 a stronger moral standard, and that they're the ones that will say I never 321 00:22:33.450 --> 00:22:38.009 thought I would have an abortion. That's sometimes while here. That, yeah, 322 00:22:38.089 --> 00:22:41.569 in the conversation with them, and some of them you hear say, 323 00:22:41.609 --> 00:22:45.359 I don't believe, I don't believe in Abor, even abortion, but you 324 00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:52.880 know exactly, and to me those are that's actually the the second largest group. 325 00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:56.680 I think that we see the true victims. I think are the smallest. 326 00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:02.990 But then there's these people in just enormous conflict and they're in the value 327 00:23:03.029 --> 00:23:06.950 of decision. They're, you know, they're not decided. Yeah, whether 328 00:23:06.950 --> 00:23:08.470 or not. Listen, there are women, you know, we have pretty 329 00:23:08.470 --> 00:23:11.859 choice people implying that when someone makes it to an abortion clinic their mind is 330 00:23:11.859 --> 00:23:15.700 already made up. This is Ziculous, not true. There women have. 331 00:23:15.859 --> 00:23:18.619 Mine is not made up, even after they had the abortion act. You 332 00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:22.339 know, women that we encounter that have taken the abortion pill, they've already 333 00:23:22.339 --> 00:23:26.500 taken the medication, their mind still in made up, when we've thankfully seen 334 00:23:26.539 --> 00:23:29.809 some that have reversed that. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so 335 00:23:29.970 --> 00:23:37.089 they they're because the crisis is so overwhelming, they are in such terrible circumstances 336 00:23:37.730 --> 00:23:41.279 and so much fear has entered their heart. Give us such scripture again. 337 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:44.960 The what the spirit of fear? Yeah, so, God is not given 338 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:47.640 us a spirit of fear, but if power, love and a sound month, 339 00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:49.720 least in Second Timothy came right, right, right, yeah, yeah, 340 00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:52.119 but God has not given us a spirit of fear, but power love 341 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:56.230 in a sound mind. Right. And when we're under a spirit of fear, 342 00:23:56.349 --> 00:24:00.109 power love and a sound mind go out the door. We're not thinking 343 00:24:00.230 --> 00:24:04.029 soundly. Yeah, fear controls us. Fear has US think it irrationally. 344 00:24:06.069 --> 00:24:08.269 It's kind of like a mouse called in a mouse trap. Yeah, and 345 00:24:08.589 --> 00:24:11.099 they want to get free. And you know that mouses legs got in the 346 00:24:11.099 --> 00:24:15.059 mouse trap. Yeah, it do ends up knowing it's leg often and rather 347 00:24:15.099 --> 00:24:17.980 than din from the being in the mouse trap, it dies from bleeding from 348 00:24:18.019 --> 00:24:19.299 not on its own way call. Yeah, yeah, kind of like that. 349 00:24:19.539 --> 00:24:22.940 Yeah, a cornered animal, almost a cornered animal, like all those 350 00:24:23.140 --> 00:24:27.970 fearful things are surrounding them and bearing down on them and they're huddling in the 351 00:24:29.170 --> 00:24:33.490 corner. Is Abortion, because that is societies go to answer when you've got 352 00:24:33.609 --> 00:24:37.450 a struggle. Just just get rid of it instead of is exactly so. 353 00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:44.519 So you know some of the stories of women that I that I feel hit 354 00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:48.920 that category. We had a young lady who I'll call her em again, 355 00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:56.269 and she she just she was here all alone. Her family was in a 356 00:24:56.309 --> 00:25:00.670 whole nother country across the world. She did have a boyfriend, the father 357 00:25:00.829 --> 00:25:03.150 the baby, with her, but really no one else, no other support. 358 00:25:03.869 --> 00:25:08.259 She was working in her dream and desire was go to school, she 359 00:25:08.539 --> 00:25:15.900 was working a lot of hours and and she just she didn't see how she 360 00:25:15.980 --> 00:25:21.890 could possibly have a baby now her circumstances, other than being kind of isolated 361 00:25:22.089 --> 00:25:26.089 we're not all that terrible. But but she was someone who I think did 362 00:25:26.210 --> 00:25:32.369 have a moral anchor and knew abortion was wrong. She said she was actually 363 00:25:32.410 --> 00:25:36.599 well, she worked with children as her livelihood, she loved children, but 364 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:42.160 she she took the pill. She went in there crying, knowing the whole 365 00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:47.480 time it was wrong. And she took the pill and immediately, she said, 366 00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:51.549 as soon as it went down her throat, she regretted it that moment. 367 00:25:51.869 --> 00:25:57.269 Yeah, and and and ended up calling the abortion pill reversal hotline and 368 00:25:57.309 --> 00:26:03.980 ultimately successfully reversing reversing the abortion pill. Came to the Lord. She and 369 00:26:04.059 --> 00:26:07.819 her boyfriend married right away because they believed. So they were very soft for 370 00:26:07.940 --> 00:26:11.019 the Lord and they said, yeah, let's do it. When when I 371 00:26:11.220 --> 00:26:15.500 shared the Gospel, yeah, let's do this right now, committed. So 372 00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:18.569 they jointly committed their life to the Lord. They got married within a week 373 00:26:18.609 --> 00:26:22.569 after that because they were so convinced, convicted that that was the right thing 374 00:26:22.609 --> 00:26:26.569 to do. And they had the child. So this is someone that had 375 00:26:26.650 --> 00:26:32.849 aborted and, praise God, abortion pill reversal was available and we were standing 376 00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:37.680 out there calling that out and and our signs were up and she that baby 377 00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:41.160 was saved. There was another mom and this is, I think, a 378 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.039 very I think you spoke about this a little the she was from very poor 379 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:52.269 language skills, no support. She did have a family that lived here, 380 00:26:52.349 --> 00:26:56.910 but they all lived, like fifteen of them in this tiny little house. 381 00:26:56.029 --> 00:27:02.500 There was no way that another baby could enter this environment. She was a 382 00:27:02.900 --> 00:27:06.099 she had already been told she would lose her job if she got pregnant. 383 00:27:06.140 --> 00:27:08.019 I think she might have been paid being in a job that was under the 384 00:27:08.140 --> 00:27:11.660 table. Yeah, she may have been here illegally. I'm not positive about 385 00:27:11.660 --> 00:27:18.410 that. But just the circumstances were all so terrible. The husband, well, 386 00:27:18.450 --> 00:27:22.009 there wasn't a husband, a boyfriend had left her and was abusive on 387 00:27:22.130 --> 00:27:26.410 top of it. So yeah, that's a terrible it's a terror. Her 388 00:27:26.490 --> 00:27:32.680 parents, I believe, were alcoholics and she knew that. So terrible, 389 00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:37.680 terrible circumstances. And yet again she was crying. That's always kind of a 390 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.200 tipoff. You see someone crying, you know there's conflict. Yeah, and 391 00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:44.670 she came aboard the RV, saw her baby, chose life and is one 392 00:27:44.710 --> 00:27:48.789 of actually our most loyal supporters right now, just always sending us pictures of 393 00:27:48.869 --> 00:27:52.789 her baby and overjoyed that she made a choice for life, but she was 394 00:27:52.869 --> 00:27:56.589 someone that would be in that would I consider that second category. The circuit, 395 00:27:56.710 --> 00:28:03.339 the circumstances were so overwhelming, the fear became so pervasive that that she 396 00:28:03.539 --> 00:28:10.259 lost sight of who God was and what his commands were, and and that 397 00:28:10.420 --> 00:28:15.009 there was a better choice. Yeah, and thank you telling her child Aments, 398 00:28:15.170 --> 00:28:17.490 not just less, sort of like a shameless plug in. I guess 399 00:28:17.569 --> 00:28:21.049 we always mentioned the sidewalks for life site, right. Yeah, yes, 400 00:28:21.329 --> 00:28:25.089 for number for lifecom and I wrote an article on there which I think is 401 00:28:25.130 --> 00:28:27.640 really good, and not because you too, my own horn, but it 402 00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:33.039 talks about just this. It talks about the the that scripture that God has 403 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:36.160 not given us a spirit of fear, but power, love and a sound 404 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.079 mind. And sort of when a spirit of fear comes, when we're under 405 00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:42.470 this fear, in this we're afraid of what the future might hold, then 406 00:28:42.549 --> 00:28:45.549 power, which is like the ability to do the right thing, and that 407 00:28:45.750 --> 00:28:51.789 that situation, it's really speaks a moral ability, the moral fortitude to do 408 00:28:51.869 --> 00:28:53.750 the right thing. Power that goes out of the door for under a spirit 409 00:28:53.750 --> 00:28:57.740 of fear, spirit of fear love, which is love for God, love 410 00:28:57.859 --> 00:29:02.420 for your neighbor, love for your baby, love for yourself. That goes 411 00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:07.339 out the door. And one sense, and then so power, love and 412 00:29:07.500 --> 00:29:11.089 a sound mind, sound mindedness, goes out the door again. That sound 413 00:29:11.210 --> 00:29:15.690 thinking, that somehow believing that paying for five hundred for an abortion is going 414 00:29:15.690 --> 00:29:19.210 to make my finances better. Right. And it's like it's not sound to 415 00:29:19.410 --> 00:29:22.970 think that way. It's not sound thinking. And and you know how will 416 00:29:23.009 --> 00:29:26.119 we combat that? We combat that with faith. We combat that with God's 417 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:30.200 word, with truth. We combat that with the ultrasound to show them that 418 00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:36.160 baby is a valuable human being and painting a vision, painting a vision of 419 00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:41.269 what that child could be. What it what is their their ultimate goal? 420 00:29:41.390 --> 00:29:47.029 I I often will say what do you picture as the the perfect life for 421 00:29:47.150 --> 00:29:49.789 you? What do you want? At almost almost to a woman, they 422 00:29:49.910 --> 00:29:53.579 say a family. Yeah, a mom and dad, a baby in a 423 00:29:53.660 --> 00:29:59.940 committed family. And and then we talked about we what does it take to 424 00:30:00.059 --> 00:30:07.250 get there? And and I love what Sarah, our baby shower coordinator, 425 00:30:07.490 --> 00:30:11.410 said this morning when she heard heard us talking about this, and she said 426 00:30:11.410 --> 00:30:15.410 she paints the picture of them as an overcomer. Yeah, that we can 427 00:30:15.690 --> 00:30:22.559 overcome our circumstances. And and people like to think of themselves as as being 428 00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.880 more than they thought that they could be, and I think it is valuable 429 00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:30.039 for us to see they can exactly. And what is it? That comes 430 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:34.789 directly against society's mentality that we're all victims. You, if you let people 431 00:30:34.950 --> 00:30:38.910 just be victims, then guess what? They're going to stay victims, they're 432 00:30:38.910 --> 00:30:45.390 going to they're going to be under victimizing behavior and victimizing thoughts and ultimately we 433 00:30:47.829 --> 00:30:52.259 will say every human being is a victim in some way. We're victim of 434 00:30:52.299 --> 00:30:56.180 our own stupidity and were become of our own sin. We're victim of the 435 00:30:56.259 --> 00:31:00.859 lies of the devil, but it doesn't make us just sort of say, 436 00:31:00.940 --> 00:31:06.730 like vocational victims. Right, it's sort of our vocation just to be victims. 437 00:31:06.890 --> 00:31:10.410 Right. Society, though, has balked this lie and their whole communities 438 00:31:10.410 --> 00:31:12.289 of people, you know, you maybe even whole nations that have bought this 439 00:31:12.410 --> 00:31:15.250 lot, that we're just victims and there's just no way we can get out 440 00:31:15.250 --> 00:31:19.880 from under this. But the Bible tells us that we are victors through him. 441 00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:22.720 So we're not victims. If we're in Christ, we are victors. 442 00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:26.880 That's why it's important that we mean, when we encounter people who think that 443 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:30.319 they're victims, they've been told that they're victims and in one since, yes, 444 00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:33.750 they are victims of lies and all this other stuff, that we bring 445 00:31:33.789 --> 00:31:37.789 the victorious gospel of Jesus, Right, so that through him, because he's 446 00:31:37.829 --> 00:31:41.190 the victor over sin. If we're victims, then we're victims of sin by 447 00:31:41.190 --> 00:31:45.509 our own will. Then, if our wheel is given to the Lord, 448 00:31:45.549 --> 00:31:49.380 he's the victor and we get the victory that he won. Right. That 449 00:31:49.579 --> 00:31:52.859 was important for us to bring the Gospel exactly. I like this. Maybe 450 00:31:52.900 --> 00:31:56.539 as the title Victor or victim, maybe that's what we need to start calling. 451 00:31:56.579 --> 00:32:00.579 Yeah, that's good, that is really good. But talking about them 452 00:32:00.619 --> 00:32:04.130 as overcomers and one of the things that we can do, and I think 453 00:32:04.170 --> 00:32:07.690 it's good that we're sharing these stories where we see these women who were in 454 00:32:07.730 --> 00:32:10.809 pretty difficult situation. Yeah, and even m the young lady who talked about, 455 00:32:10.809 --> 00:32:15.369 who genuinely was, I think, the team better category. Right, 456 00:32:15.529 --> 00:32:19.000 she was a visue, that right. Yeah, and yet she's still overcame. 457 00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:21.880 She did, and she did and Shit, and we helped her. 458 00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:24.720 So that's not to say that if you know, if you have a if 459 00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:28.640 you're a victim, that there is in help or that, or if you're 460 00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:30.390 not a victim, that there is a help. I mean, we're going 461 00:32:30.390 --> 00:32:32.910 to help. We're going to help, but we're not going to you know, 462 00:32:34.029 --> 00:32:37.750 Christ will accept US wherever we are, but he doesn't leave us where 463 00:32:37.750 --> 00:32:40.670 we are. He expects us to grow more like him each day. We 464 00:32:40.869 --> 00:32:45.140 are to change we are. There is an upward call and I think with 465 00:32:45.380 --> 00:32:50.619 em that teenager. She returned to school. She ended up in a prey 466 00:32:50.700 --> 00:32:53.539 dancy resource center where until she had her baby, she returned to school. 467 00:32:53.579 --> 00:32:57.259 Eternity home. I'm a turn yeah, I'm sorry, I'm eternity home. 468 00:32:58.380 --> 00:33:01.930 And and she did finish school, she did graduate, she did get a 469 00:33:02.049 --> 00:33:07.130 job, she did restore her family. She was, you know, reunited 470 00:33:07.170 --> 00:33:12.690 with with the family that had it really victimized her. And you know, 471 00:33:12.809 --> 00:33:16.240 and she's doing okay and she show Sir Right. It isn't recover victor. 472 00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:20.119 And that's what happened with the other m, the M that was in that 473 00:33:20.279 --> 00:33:23.759 second, second category that did the pill reversal. You know, she got 474 00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:29.190 married, she had the baby, I think she's going back to school. 475 00:33:29.430 --> 00:33:32.589 He's got a great job, he got a job and and and they're they're 476 00:33:32.950 --> 00:33:37.109 they're doing really well. But, and I want to think talk about that, 477 00:33:37.710 --> 00:33:42.819 the ones that consider themselves victims but they're not, and how that mentality 478 00:33:43.059 --> 00:33:49.779 can really affect whether they make changes. Our ministry is not just to be 479 00:33:50.019 --> 00:33:53.819 welfare and and to just keep giving handouts to someone, because that doesn't help 480 00:33:53.819 --> 00:33:58.569 anyone. That enables, I think, yeah, that to remain in in 481 00:33:58.930 --> 00:34:02.849 whatever terrible circumstances you are. But we do want to help in a way, 482 00:34:04.289 --> 00:34:07.010 not only through tangible means, but through the Gospel, so that there 483 00:34:07.210 --> 00:34:10.000 will truly be a change of hard change of mind. Yeah, and they 484 00:34:10.039 --> 00:34:15.119 will really try to to change their lifestyle. But I remember a family that 485 00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:19.519 that we helped maybe more than any other family. You know, it really 486 00:34:20.440 --> 00:34:23.550 maybe thousands of dollars worth of worth of assistants, and at one point in 487 00:34:23.789 --> 00:34:27.829 in when she had hit on hard times again, when she told me, 488 00:34:28.670 --> 00:34:32.349 no one is helping me, of course I'm in this situation and I just, 489 00:34:34.110 --> 00:34:37.579 you know, I ride away, said that just is not true and 490 00:34:37.659 --> 00:34:45.500 I started to list all the help and and reminded her that that not only 491 00:34:45.539 --> 00:34:47.900 had she been helped, but there comes a point at which you just truly 492 00:34:47.980 --> 00:34:52.460 have to make a decision. I'm going to live for the Lord, I'm 493 00:34:52.460 --> 00:34:54.449 going to do the next right thing and I'm going to keep doing the next 494 00:34:54.449 --> 00:35:00.250 right thing. And so kind of pointing your back to you can be a 495 00:35:00.369 --> 00:35:04.329 victor, but it's in the Lord. Yeah, you're not going to find 496 00:35:04.369 --> 00:35:06.690 it out outside of the time. So it's like, you know, you 497 00:35:06.730 --> 00:35:08.639 can, you can stay under victimhood, if you want to write. Exact 498 00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:12.039 fact is, God is calling you up, he's calling you to be a 499 00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:15.719 victor. That's God's people. That's the message that we're bringing. You can 500 00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:19.679 be a victor and trusting in Jesus. Yeah, he's ultimately the victor. 501 00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:23.309 Over over, every yell. Yeah, they were given to one of the 502 00:35:23.349 --> 00:35:28.670 things we love calling out to the men. That that plays right into this. 503 00:35:29.349 --> 00:35:31.710 You could be a hero today. You could be a hero today. 504 00:35:31.789 --> 00:35:37.460 God gave you your muscles, your superior strength, to protect and help and 505 00:35:37.579 --> 00:35:44.019 uphold vulnerable women and children. Yeah, and and so giving them that, 506 00:35:44.260 --> 00:35:47.260 that that image, that vision of this is who God designed you to be. 507 00:35:47.380 --> 00:35:51.530 He designed all of us to be over comrage, to overcomes in through 508 00:35:51.570 --> 00:35:55.650 the blood of Jesus and then through faith and to become more like like our 509 00:35:55.769 --> 00:36:00.090 Lord. Yeah, I told you when we started I wanted to mention or 510 00:36:00.170 --> 00:36:02.289 want to tell you a little bit about your story, because you know, 511 00:36:02.409 --> 00:36:07.199 it's not that that you certainly we have experiences with other people, but you 512 00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:09.199 have a personal experience, I do, and you share that in your testimony 513 00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:12.960 in the first I'm it was like what the second podcast that we did, 514 00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:15.639 I believe, and and how you had had an abortion. Yeah, and 515 00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:21.070 because you know, again, there's this mentality that abortion minded women, post 516 00:36:21.150 --> 00:36:23.429 abortive women, are just victims, as I'll just ask you very pointedly. 517 00:36:23.469 --> 00:36:27.590 Yeah, do you think you were a victim when you had your abortion? 518 00:36:27.630 --> 00:36:30.590 Yeah, you feel like you're a victim. And I fall into the third 519 00:36:30.789 --> 00:36:36.380 category, which is so it plays into that hardhearted in rebellion from God. 520 00:36:36.940 --> 00:36:39.260 Honestly, could care less, and I hate to say that now it's a 521 00:36:39.380 --> 00:36:44.500 completely different story. I still weep over my abortion, but back then I 522 00:36:44.539 --> 00:36:51.969 didn't know the Lord. I certainly bought into the lies of society, the 523 00:36:52.010 --> 00:36:58.769 law. It was legal. Yeah, and and really just I really just 524 00:36:59.050 --> 00:37:04.239 wanted to not feel sick anymore. I had big plans, you know, 525 00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:07.599 big aspirations, and a baby definitely didn't fit into those. Yeah, and 526 00:37:08.360 --> 00:37:13.679 and so it was getting rid of an annoyance. It was. It was 527 00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:16.469 not. I honest, I'm pretty sure I never thought of it as a 528 00:37:16.550 --> 00:37:22.989 baby. Yeah, so I was in full rebellion from God. Yeah, 529 00:37:22.989 --> 00:37:29.829 I did not recognize, or desire to recognize at all the humanity of this 530 00:37:29.989 --> 00:37:36.019 child or that I had any obligation to care for this baby. None. 531 00:37:36.420 --> 00:37:40.579 Yeah, it was. It was as alien to my mind as as anything 532 00:37:40.820 --> 00:37:45.170 could be. Yeah, and so I guess I you know, I guess 533 00:37:45.210 --> 00:37:50.969 I can understand where those women who come to the abortion center, who present 534 00:37:51.289 --> 00:37:53.929 with that same picture, I understand where they're coming from. That was me, 535 00:37:54.489 --> 00:37:59.159 and it was through. It wasn't until I came to the Lord that 536 00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:04.719 I truly understood what I had done and began to make a hundred eighty degree 537 00:38:05.239 --> 00:38:08.920 turn around in my feelings regarding abortion. Yeah, and who we're talking? 538 00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:12.519 We're saying that, you know, the majority of women that we encounter, 539 00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:15.989 HMM, are not victims but victimizers. Right, we're not just pointing the 540 00:38:16.030 --> 00:38:19.750 finger. At least you're not just pointing the finger and say, and those 541 00:38:19.789 --> 00:38:22.190 women are victimizers. Right, but you're saying that's how I was, but 542 00:38:22.269 --> 00:38:24.909 I was yeah, how, that's it. I was myself. Yeah, 543 00:38:25.230 --> 00:38:30.820 and and no one is saying, just so there's no false perception that you 544 00:38:30.900 --> 00:38:34.460 know, somehow those women that are victimizers and just, you know, are 545 00:38:34.539 --> 00:38:38.619 brazen in their attitude toward abortion, that somehow they're unhuman, HMM, that 546 00:38:38.860 --> 00:38:44.250 they're should be written off and shouldn't be reached. They should absolutely be reached. 547 00:38:44.329 --> 00:38:46.050 Right, we're there to reach them, because I was reached. Yeah, 548 00:38:46.050 --> 00:38:50.210 I was reached, not in time for the baby, but in time 549 00:38:50.610 --> 00:38:57.840 for my eternal safety and salvation and and you know my walk now. So 550 00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:01.119 we know that that people can change through yes, because we, you know, 551 00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:06.159 we as believers, we don't have the right to put ourselves as better 552 00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:09.230 than so when we're saying that women are not always victims of abortions, matter 553 00:39:09.230 --> 00:39:13.230 of fact, for the most part they're not ms of abortion. Babies are 554 00:39:13.230 --> 00:39:16.070 the victim, we're not writing them off and we're not saying, you know, 555 00:39:16.590 --> 00:39:20.750 somehow they're the worst people in the face of the planet. But we're 556 00:39:20.909 --> 00:39:23.380 what we're doing is we're looking at the biblical reality, and the Biblical reality 557 00:39:23.539 --> 00:39:28.139 is that when we give ourselves to sin, we can blame sin. If 558 00:39:28.179 --> 00:39:30.619 we want, we can blame the devil. The den will maybe do it. 559 00:39:30.699 --> 00:39:32.460 We can blame God. You look at our first parents, Adam and 560 00:39:32.500 --> 00:39:37.739 Eve, Yep, and look when they fell into sin, when Adam gave 561 00:39:37.780 --> 00:39:42.329 himself to sin, direct disobedience to God's command. WHO's the first person he 562 00:39:42.449 --> 00:39:45.570 blamed? Right, God? Yeah, I mean he says it was the 563 00:39:45.690 --> 00:39:49.969 woman that you gave me. The accusation is toward the woman, but the 564 00:39:49.969 --> 00:39:52.329 first person he's blaming as God. Hey, if you wouldn't gave me this, 565 00:39:52.489 --> 00:39:54.719 this woman, then after all, I wouldn't have wouldn't have been tempted 566 00:39:54.760 --> 00:39:58.639 to Sind. She's the one that gave me the fruit, and so I'm 567 00:39:58.679 --> 00:40:02.159 a victim God, and you're the victimizer. Yeah, blaming God as sort 568 00:40:02.199 --> 00:40:06.239 of like God's making us this victim. And the women say that. The 569 00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:08.630 women say that as well. And at abortion center, Hey, the God 570 00:40:08.710 --> 00:40:12.550 gave me this baby, he said. God created this baby. It's his 571 00:40:12.710 --> 00:40:15.829 fault. Let him deal with it. Yeah, which is which is ridiculous. 572 00:40:15.909 --> 00:40:17.349 Yeah, and you know, sort of fits. Even when this story 573 00:40:17.429 --> 00:40:22.900 with with Kane and Abel. You know, God warns Cane. You know, 574 00:40:22.940 --> 00:40:24.780 your countenances fallow. Why is your countenance fallen. If you do well, 575 00:40:24.940 --> 00:40:28.619 will you not be received? So apparently, cane, you didn't do 576 00:40:28.699 --> 00:40:30.699 so well. And you know, can could blame God and say God, 577 00:40:30.780 --> 00:40:35.929 you're just you're causing trauma in my life. Since I have trauma, I 578 00:40:36.090 --> 00:40:38.889 need to act out, I need to do something with this trauma and I'm 579 00:40:39.010 --> 00:40:43.449 justified in whatever I do. And Know God saying if you do well, 580 00:40:44.530 --> 00:40:46.809 then you'll be received. If you don't do well, then sin crouches at 581 00:40:46.849 --> 00:40:51.760 the door. It's desire is to have you to God's warning him and we 582 00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:54.639 see a warning in the scripture about sin and the progression of sin and when 583 00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:58.800 people give themselves to sin, the God's not to be blamed. You Know 584 00:40:59.239 --> 00:41:02.519 James, the first chapter, James says that let no one say when he 585 00:41:02.559 --> 00:41:06.949 is tempted, he is tempted by God. God did not tempt Kane in 586 00:41:07.070 --> 00:41:09.590 this even though he didn't receive his sacrifice. There was a reason he didn't 587 00:41:09.590 --> 00:41:15.070 receive his sacrifice. Then would say when he's tempted, he's tempted by the 588 00:41:15.150 --> 00:41:17.070 Lord, for God tempts no one with evil. nors he himself tempted. 589 00:41:17.110 --> 00:41:21.019 It's just not in God's nature to temp people the sin, right, and 590 00:41:21.139 --> 00:41:22.659 it says, but each one is tempted, when he's drawn away by his 591 00:41:22.699 --> 00:41:25.900 own lust. When Lust is conceived, he gives birth to Sin and when 592 00:41:25.940 --> 00:41:30.780 sin is fully grown, it brings forth death. That's exactly what happened in 593 00:41:30.300 --> 00:41:36.369 Cane's situation. It brought forced death to his to his his brother Abel, 594 00:41:36.650 --> 00:41:39.730 righteous able. Yeah, and it brought, of course, devastation in Kane's 595 00:41:39.769 --> 00:41:44.409 life as well. So he was victimized by his own his own sin and 596 00:41:44.610 --> 00:41:47.599 that sense. And he wonders about the Earth. You know, it says 597 00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:51.440 if I go somewhere, he pleads with God and God had mercy on this 598 00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:53.639 gap. He did, had mercy on came and put his seal on Kane. 599 00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:57.280 And if anyone hurts you, then they'll have to deal with me. 600 00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:00.400 I'm paraphrasing right. That's amazing. It is as of course God, in 601 00:42:00.429 --> 00:42:04.110 His mercy, he did that in your life, right he yeah, he 602 00:42:04.469 --> 00:42:08.429 pursued you. You ultimately surrendered your life to him and God took that as 603 00:42:08.510 --> 00:42:13.829 you one time, we're a victimizer. Now you're helping women to see that 604 00:42:13.909 --> 00:42:16.179 their baby is actually going to be the victim of abortion and helping them to 605 00:42:16.219 --> 00:42:21.139 choose life, right. So, yeah, that's cool, the way the 606 00:42:21.260 --> 00:42:24.619 Lord in his in his awesome wisdom works. Yeah, and can even take 607 00:42:24.699 --> 00:42:28.659 the hardest of hearts, yeah, and turn them around. You have seen 608 00:42:28.699 --> 00:42:31.170 women go in, I know you've seen it to too, middle fingers blazing, 609 00:42:31.449 --> 00:42:35.130 cussing us. They go in like that, they have their abortion, 610 00:42:35.210 --> 00:42:37.969 they come out and they're they're just devastated, their hearts are broken, right, 611 00:42:38.250 --> 00:42:42.570 and that's an opportunity for the Gospel. It is, it is. 612 00:42:42.730 --> 00:42:45.280 Yeah. You know, as you were talking about scripture, I I want 613 00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:49.239 to share some of the stuff that this morning I was I was doing a 614 00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:53.480 Bible study just on just where it happened end up for that day. It 615 00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:58.559 was on the book of Jeremiah and Chapter Seven and eight, and I thought 616 00:42:58.590 --> 00:43:05.750 it was a really it was like describing so so well what I would consider 617 00:43:06.429 --> 00:43:10.150 the victimizer. Yeah, person out there at the abortion center. So I 618 00:43:10.309 --> 00:43:15.219 just read like a few pieces from those, from those verses. It's it's 619 00:43:15.300 --> 00:43:21.300 in Jeremiah seven, starting in verse five and all the Way Jeremiah ending at 620 00:43:21.300 --> 00:43:23.980 verse twelve. But I'm only going to pick out a few. God is 621 00:43:24.059 --> 00:43:27.610 talking now. He says, if you do not oppress the alien, the 622 00:43:27.650 --> 00:43:30.449 orphan or the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place, 623 00:43:31.369 --> 00:43:35.449 then I will let you dwell in this place later, he says. Well, 624 00:43:35.489 --> 00:43:39.210 you steal, murder and commit adultery and square falsely and offer sacrifices. 625 00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:45.719 You say, we are delivered so that you may do all these abominations. 626 00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:50.760 We hear all the time people saying God will forgive you, so I'm going 627 00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:53.280 to go in there and do this abomination, but I will be delivered. 628 00:43:53.320 --> 00:43:59.030 Yeah, this is what I commanded them, saying, obey my voice and 629 00:43:59.110 --> 00:44:01.030 I will be your God and you will be my people and you will walk 630 00:44:01.070 --> 00:44:04.190 in the way in which I command you, that it may be well with 631 00:44:04.309 --> 00:44:06.869 you. So God is painting the Vision. Hey, you can do this, 632 00:44:07.110 --> 00:44:09.659 you can, and it will be well. But instead, what they 633 00:44:09.699 --> 00:44:14.539 have done that which is evil in my sight, and they have built the 634 00:44:14.579 --> 00:44:16.860 high places, which is the Valley of the son of Hennam, to burn 635 00:44:16.980 --> 00:44:21.820 their sons and daughters in the fire, which I did not command and it 636 00:44:21.980 --> 00:44:27.809 did not come into my mind. Yeah, and death will be chosen rather 637 00:44:27.969 --> 00:44:32.170 than life by all the remnant, the remains of this evil family. They 638 00:44:32.250 --> 00:44:36.929 refuse to return. They have spoken. What is not right. No, 639 00:44:37.210 --> 00:44:40.400 man repented of his wickedness, saying what have I done? I remember my 640 00:44:40.599 --> 00:44:45.760 our abortion reversal. Ladies, she did repent. Yeah, and say immediately, 641 00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:49.000 what have I done? And Yeah, she's that's why I'm saying I 642 00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:52.789 think she's kind of in a different category than then these really hardhearted people who 643 00:44:52.869 --> 00:44:57.030 don't repent. They don't say what have I done? They justify it. 644 00:44:57.230 --> 00:45:00.670 You'll hear them say, I ant double down on it. They blame God 645 00:45:00.750 --> 00:45:04.989 or blame circumstances or right or yeah, disregard that what they did was even 646 00:45:04.989 --> 00:45:08.179 wrong. Yeah, and then the people saying peace, peace, but there 647 00:45:08.460 --> 00:45:14.300 is no peace where they ashamed because of the abomination they had done. They 648 00:45:14.420 --> 00:45:19.260 certainly were not ashamed. So those are, you know, I think, 649 00:45:19.380 --> 00:45:24.889 pretty eloquent descriptions of of what we see. And then, in contrast, 650 00:45:25.610 --> 00:45:30.250 think about, I think we've talked about it before, the Hebrew with midwives 651 00:45:30.250 --> 00:45:35.570 who were told by the King of Egypt to to kill the the Hebrews sons. 652 00:45:35.610 --> 00:45:40.519 Yeah, and they were to put them to death. And the but 653 00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:45.639 the the scripture says, but the midwives feared God and did not do as 654 00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:47.639 the king of Egypt commanded them. But that the boys live. So God 655 00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:52.949 was good to the midwives. The people multiplied and became very mighty because the 656 00:45:52.070 --> 00:45:57.269 midwives feared God. He established households for them. Yeah, so you can 657 00:45:57.429 --> 00:46:00.989 choose. Right, God has given us the ability to choose to do what 658 00:46:00.110 --> 00:46:04.659 he has told us to do. But there's a group that clearly is not 659 00:46:04.980 --> 00:46:09.579 going to do that. And and so that's that's probably the hardest group of 660 00:46:09.820 --> 00:46:14.139 people that we eat. And men in the abortions are mostly the people that 661 00:46:14.340 --> 00:46:16.820 just walk in there and it's like, you know they're going to do what 662 00:46:16.900 --> 00:46:21.050 they're going to do. And you know, we should weep over those people. 663 00:46:21.050 --> 00:46:22.449 Yeah, I should. I just be, you know, forget them. 664 00:46:22.610 --> 00:46:25.690 And Yeah, and you know they're too hard and to even be reached. 665 00:46:27.090 --> 00:46:30.289 I should weep over that. Yeah, and and not forget. I 666 00:46:30.329 --> 00:46:32.559 mean you personally say and I can personally say. You know, I shared 667 00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:37.599 my testimony in the first per a couple of podcasts that we did, and 668 00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:39.559 part of my testimony is at that point in my life, if I could 669 00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:44.119 have taken my girlfriend to have an abortion and when she when I found out 670 00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:46.710 she's pregnant, I would have, because I was a selfish little punk living 671 00:46:46.750 --> 00:46:52.389 for myself. Yeah, and I would have, without any any second thought 672 00:46:52.469 --> 00:46:55.670 to it right, taking her down here. Thankfully, Gott in his in 673 00:46:55.750 --> 00:47:00.469 His mercy, gave her the strength to not even reveal it to me. 674 00:47:00.710 --> 00:47:04.019 The little too late. Yes, it. Yeah, but we know, 675 00:47:04.260 --> 00:47:07.980 like we're no better than those victimizer women. Apart from Christ right, I'm 676 00:47:08.019 --> 00:47:12.300 no better. Yeah, but by the grace of God, he's changed us 677 00:47:12.579 --> 00:47:16.489 and he's made us victors rather than victims. He's made us victors rather than 678 00:47:16.489 --> 00:47:22.329 victimizers, and he can do that to anyone who who has a confrontation with 679 00:47:22.369 --> 00:47:25.570 him and his Holy Spirit and surrenders her life to into his hands. M 680 00:47:27.250 --> 00:47:29.769 Yeah, so with that, you know, I kind of want to wrap 681 00:47:29.849 --> 00:47:34.320 this thing up and give some people some something to chew on their things, 682 00:47:34.360 --> 00:47:38.480 an important subject. Yeah, if you have comments about this particular podcast, 683 00:47:38.599 --> 00:47:42.960 you have things that you want to you know, cut sort of run by 684 00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:45.750 us, and thoughts you have about this subject, we'd love to hear from 685 00:47:45.750 --> 00:47:49.710 you. Can Connect with me at d parks at cities for lifecom, or 686 00:47:49.750 --> 00:47:54.190 Vicky with at v Costi Org at cities for lifecom. You can go to 687 00:47:54.230 --> 00:47:59.179 our facebook page, Charlotte cities for life and interact with us there. We 688 00:47:59.300 --> 00:48:01.699 do post these podcasts every now and then on our cities for life page. 689 00:48:04.380 --> 00:48:07.019 You can also go our sidewalks for life site that I mentioned earlier, sidewalks 690 00:48:07.059 --> 00:48:13.570 the number four and lifecom's equipping site for sidewalk counseling and we just love to 691 00:48:13.610 --> 00:48:16.090 hear from you. We're going to start putting some of these out on Youtube, 692 00:48:16.289 --> 00:48:21.730 probably just an audio form. We're doing some videos and really just hadn't 693 00:48:21.730 --> 00:48:23.650 had the time to process the videos and put them out there and sort of 694 00:48:23.650 --> 00:48:27.280 video form. But you can put them out there in audio form on Youtube. 695 00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:30.239 So I'm doing some of that. So you can comment there and I'll 696 00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:32.880 be checking the comments from time to time. But we appreciate those who listen 697 00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:37.280 and we appreciate you praying for the Ministry of Cities for life and praying for 698 00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:42.670 this podcast that it reaches people and it has an impact for the Gospel. 699 00:48:43.349 --> 00:49:07.420 So God bless you. Use Mil use give me. Cost me my life, 700 00:49:09.889 --> 00:49:12.889 but these two precious