Adoption and Frontline Prolife Ministry, How Do These Two Ministries Work Together

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.679 I am yours. I am yours. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life 2 00:00:05.719 --> 00:00:08.830 podcast. In this episode we have a special guest, Jessica Molin, with 3 00:00:08.910 --> 00:00:12.550 option adoption. She talks about some of the dus and don'ts of mentioning adoption 4 00:00:12.589 --> 00:00:16.949 to an abortion minded mother and shares her family's adoption testimony. This is a 5 00:00:16.989 --> 00:00:20.350 skype interview and the sound quality may be slightly lacking, but we still think 6 00:00:20.350 --> 00:00:31.859 it'll be a blessing. Stay tuned. I felt show passis touch your use. 7 00:00:33.659 --> 00:00:36.890 Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. You appreciate you guys who 8 00:00:37.009 --> 00:00:40.570 listen. We Hook this podcast will be a blessing and encouragement to you guys. 9 00:00:41.210 --> 00:00:44.369 We have today with this Jessica Molan. Say Hey, Jessica. Hey 10 00:00:44.450 --> 00:00:48.890 there, it's good to have you just Jessica is with option adoption. She 11 00:00:48.969 --> 00:00:51.880 started this Ministry of some time ago. She'll share a little bit of her 12 00:00:51.880 --> 00:00:54.679 story in that. But reason why I felt like we needed to have this 13 00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:58.880 podcast, I mean Vickie talked about having this podcast, is we are getting 14 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:00.640 a lot of questions. I mean we always have, but now even more 15 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:04.750 so, getting a lot of questions of people asking don't you guys offer adoption 16 00:01:04.790 --> 00:01:07.790 at the abortion center? I would love to adopt a baby. Can You? 17 00:01:07.870 --> 00:01:11.629 Can you connect you with a mom at the abortion center that would want 18 00:01:11.670 --> 00:01:15.230 to let us adopt her baby? So we want to talk about some of 19 00:01:15.269 --> 00:01:19.700 those questions and we thought Jessica would be the perfect person to answer some of 20 00:01:19.739 --> 00:01:23.060 those questions talk about some of that, because she has a perspective of being 21 00:01:23.140 --> 00:01:29.540 involved in adoption and helping people place their children for adoption and helping people can 22 00:01:29.659 --> 00:01:33.370 nect with MOMS who want to adopt, but also even has an adoption story 23 00:01:33.450 --> 00:01:37.329 in her past and with her family and stall some story and she's been on 24 00:01:37.370 --> 00:01:40.689 the sidewalk to sky kind. She has the best of all the world's that 25 00:01:40.769 --> 00:01:44.049 we're discussion. Yep, so, so, Jessica. That's why we wanted 26 00:01:44.049 --> 00:01:47.049 to bring you on. So if you could just to give the folks a 27 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:51.359 little bit of context understanding who you are, cheer, cheer, who you 28 00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:57.120 are, what the ministry does and your story personally of your little girl, 29 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:01.230 Blythe and how the Lord orchestrated all of that. Okay, would love to. 30 00:02:02.390 --> 00:02:07.790 Well, let's see, my husband and I and our family really started 31 00:02:07.389 --> 00:02:13.830 with the sidewalk ministry. I would say, it's been close to seven or 32 00:02:13.870 --> 00:02:17.219 eight years ago now, and we really didn't know a whole lot about sidewalk 33 00:02:17.300 --> 00:02:21.900 ministry. was just kind of where the Lord planted us. And then once 34 00:02:22.020 --> 00:02:25.699 we had been on the sidewalk for about a year, we started to really 35 00:02:25.740 --> 00:02:34.689 ask more questions about how many women choose life and place for adoption versus going 36 00:02:34.770 --> 00:02:38.530 forward with an abortion. And the reason we were asking that question was because 37 00:02:39.409 --> 00:02:45.439 we had just gone through an adoption of our little girl life, and we 38 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:50.800 didn't really know her whole story when we first adopted her, but as started 39 00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:55.000 to unfold, her birth mother shared more and more about the situation while she 40 00:02:55.120 --> 00:03:00.150 was pregnant with life, and so that really lit to fire on us to 41 00:03:00.229 --> 00:03:05.110 be on the sidewalk even more and then to ask those questions that I mentioned 42 00:03:05.110 --> 00:03:10.189 before, which was how many women really choose adoption over abortion? And what 43 00:03:10.310 --> 00:03:15.659 we started to find out was a really grim statistic, which was less than 44 00:03:15.740 --> 00:03:23.020 two percent of women choose adoption over death. And that just broke my heart 45 00:03:23.020 --> 00:03:27.409 because, you know, for my husband and I we were sitting here with 46 00:03:27.530 --> 00:03:31.250 this living example of what choosing life looks like. But not just that, 47 00:03:32.169 --> 00:03:38.090 but also the added layer of placing that child into an adoptive family. And 48 00:03:38.210 --> 00:03:43.879 so what we did was we went on a journey and we essentially ask the 49 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:47.439 Lord to guide us to a ministry that was already in place here in the 50 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:57.270 US. That was frontline ministry that helped people who were abortion determined or abortion 51 00:03:57.669 --> 00:04:02.110 minded the adoption as a choice. And I'll be honest, I searched high 52 00:04:02.189 --> 00:04:06.710 and low. I could not find anybody that was doing it frontline. Now, 53 00:04:06.750 --> 00:04:12.500 there were lots of adoption agencies and different resources like that, but the 54 00:04:12.620 --> 00:04:16.180 front line is really where our hearts are and that by sidewalk ministry is yeah, 55 00:04:16.180 --> 00:04:20.180 I'm very passionate about it. So I was like, Oh my goodness, 56 00:04:20.459 --> 00:04:24.100 Lord, are you calling us to start a ministry? Because I'll just 57 00:04:24.220 --> 00:04:28.290 be honest with you, my mindset about ministries are there are a lot of 58 00:04:28.370 --> 00:04:30.810 them and I'm not so sure we need so many of them. So I 59 00:04:31.209 --> 00:04:36.610 was very hesitant that the Lord was calling us to that and we really took 60 00:04:36.649 --> 00:04:41.160 a long time to pray about it. We had just decided to start homeschooling 61 00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:44.800 our son, who was our oldest, and we had just adopted life not 62 00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:48.160 too long before that. So I was thinking, Wow, this is a 63 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:51.399 big rolling here, a Lord that you're asking us to do, but with 64 00:04:51.560 --> 00:04:56.870 support of those around us and, you know, cities for life being with 65 00:04:57.110 --> 00:05:00.470 them a leading up to that there was lots of support around kind of starting 66 00:05:00.509 --> 00:05:05.550 a branch of a ministry that would help with the adoption component. So that's 67 00:05:05.629 --> 00:05:10.860 kind of, in a nutshell, how my husband and I came to start 68 00:05:10.899 --> 00:05:15.740 up to adoption, and what fuels our passion for that is the fact that 69 00:05:15.339 --> 00:05:21.730 we adopted our daughter and she was spared from abortion. Just so took him 70 00:05:21.810 --> 00:05:27.329 talk a little bit about what exactly option adoption does, just in a brief 71 00:05:27.370 --> 00:05:33.490 summary or so. Option adoption is a little different than other adoption ministries because 72 00:05:33.529 --> 00:05:39.000 of that one component that I was just mentioning, that frontline component. What 73 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:46.040 we like to do is train frontline ministries like sidewalk monistries like these for life. 74 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:50.589 Sometimes it's been with pregnancy resource centers. It's also been with lay people 75 00:05:50.790 --> 00:05:57.029 or church leaders, and what we like to do from an educational side is 76 00:05:57.149 --> 00:06:03.500 help people understand on what adoption is so they can talk about adoption with women 77 00:06:03.579 --> 00:06:10.220 and men who are abortion minded. The other side of the ministry is directly 78 00:06:10.500 --> 00:06:15.899 working with those abortion minded men and women, and that has just been an 79 00:06:15.939 --> 00:06:20.730 amazing experience because I think what happens a lot of times is a woman who's 80 00:06:20.769 --> 00:06:27.930 abortion minded maybe very fearful of directly talking to an agency and adoption agency. 81 00:06:28.490 --> 00:06:32.199 So option, adoption is like a neutral ground for her. She's not feeling 82 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:36.279 as if she has to go ahead and pull the trigger on that right away. 83 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:42.199 We are a resource that can help her understand what adoption is, what 84 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:46.079 her choices are and how it's different than, let's say, foster care, 85 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:48.910 because that's a big myth that you know. It's the same as foster care, 86 00:06:49.069 --> 00:06:54.430 and so that's kind of our two big things that we do. So 87 00:06:54.629 --> 00:07:00.709 one is educational for those that want to walk alongside of women and men that 88 00:07:00.910 --> 00:07:05.939 are abortion minded, and the other side is directly working with a woman or, 89 00:07:06.300 --> 00:07:11.379 you know, a man that is abortion deferment. Okay, Great. 90 00:07:12.180 --> 00:07:16.889 So you said that two percent. was that two percent women that actually consider 91 00:07:17.610 --> 00:07:24.970 adoption? There? Well, the two percent is the number of women who 92 00:07:25.089 --> 00:07:30.720 actually choose life and then go forward with adoption. Okay, right, right. 93 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:34.399 So okay, then low number. M So it is a really low 94 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:38.519 number and that has definitely been our experience. In fact, I've been out 95 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:41.199 there what six and a half years, something like that now, and I 96 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:46.350 have never had a woman choose adoption and in fact, if I mention adoption, 97 00:07:46.709 --> 00:07:51.029 it's often a showstopper. They they no longer want to talk to me 98 00:07:51.589 --> 00:07:55.629 just because had something that you have faced. And can you address that? 99 00:07:55.829 --> 00:08:00.779 Why that happens? And maybe you said you train people so that that doesn't 100 00:08:00.860 --> 00:08:03.819 happen, and it would it would be great to hear some of the things 101 00:08:03.980 --> 00:08:07.139 that might guide us out there. Yeah, I'll just jump in here real 102 00:08:07.139 --> 00:08:11.459 quick before you answer that, Jessica, and just you know, our experience 103 00:08:11.579 --> 00:08:15.889 is, again, like a started talking in the Intro, was that we 104 00:08:16.009 --> 00:08:20.009 get people always asking us aside wont counselors, don't you guys off all for 105 00:08:20.089 --> 00:08:22.730 adoption? Yeah, and then even some people with the mentality that like we 106 00:08:22.810 --> 00:08:26.689 need to stand out in front of the abortion clinic can just say I'll adopt 107 00:08:26.730 --> 00:08:30.120 your baby. Yeah, your baby right, and there are people that, 108 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:31.639 I think you know, with good intentions, think that that's the best way 109 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:37.080 to offer adoption of that context. Yeah, but not always is an option. 110 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:39.759 They first thing. I mean very, very often it's not the first 111 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:43.669 thing we need to say right, I'm in total agreement. Yeah, I 112 00:08:43.750 --> 00:08:48.149 totally agree with what you just said. I would I would say my experience 113 00:08:48.350 --> 00:08:52.309 lines up with exactly what both of you just mentioned. From my years of 114 00:08:52.429 --> 00:08:56.580 being on the sidewalk, I will tell you that I don't think it's something 115 00:08:56.620 --> 00:09:01.779 that we should lead with, and there's a big reason. Obviously, a 116 00:09:01.580 --> 00:09:07.659 woman WHO's chosen to walk into an abortion clinic has many things going on at 117 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:11.889 that time and a lot of times, like Vicky you said, it being 118 00:09:11.929 --> 00:09:18.690 a show stopper is because that's a very emotional topic and many times, you 119 00:09:18.809 --> 00:09:22.370 know, you will hear from a woman who is anchored by someone saying that, 120 00:09:22.730 --> 00:09:26.840 you know, if I cannot raise this baby, nobody's going to raise 121 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:31.840 this baby. And so that's why it's probably not the best thing to lead 122 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:37.320 with. What I have found is after talking with someone about the reasons that 123 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:41.870 to the clinic situation is being able to go through some scriptures with them, 124 00:09:43.190 --> 00:09:48.950 with the Gospel, a lots of heart is softened and honestly, I depend 125 00:09:48.070 --> 00:09:52.740 totally on the Holy Spirit as to when I am to talk about adoption or 126 00:09:52.820 --> 00:09:56.379 not. There are many times that it does not come up at all for 127 00:09:56.539 --> 00:10:00.019 me when I'm with a woman on the sidewalk, but there a are plenty 128 00:10:00.059 --> 00:10:05.179 of times that it does and our ministry has had just amazing results with women 129 00:10:05.259 --> 00:10:11.929 placing for adoption. So it's good at least build some kind of repoor with 130 00:10:11.049 --> 00:10:16.330 an abortion ated woman and build a relationship with her before you introduce the subject 131 00:10:16.409 --> 00:10:20.409 of adoption. Absolutely, I mean I think if we if we were to 132 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:24.080 turn it and think about what that woman may be feeling in that moment, 133 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:28.159 you know, if that would be the very first thing we lead with, 134 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:31.240 it's a could be a big turn off. I'm not saying that happens in 135 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:35.399 every case, but I would say a majority of the cases. If we 136 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:39.110 can build the upport first and that a trust, and build it as quickly 137 00:10:39.190 --> 00:10:46.870 as we can, then it's almost as if we have earned the ability to 138 00:10:46.990 --> 00:10:50.460 go into a much deeper subject. That I'll just be honest. There is 139 00:10:50.500 --> 00:10:56.899 a lot of emotion surround around the subject of adoption. Just is and you 140 00:10:56.980 --> 00:11:01.419 know what I'll say about that is, if we think of it from a 141 00:11:01.580 --> 00:11:07.450 biblical standpoint and a spiritual standpoint, you know, God created the mother that's 142 00:11:07.490 --> 00:11:11.529 carrying that child to be that child's mother and the father of that child to 143 00:11:11.649 --> 00:11:18.960 be that child's father. And so adoption at its core is counter to what 144 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:22.679 the Lord intended for the Child. Okay, now I say that and those 145 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:26.120 are listening, you know some that are adoptive parents, they may be saying, 146 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:30.559 why is she saying that? Well, because at it the truth. 147 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:35.549 Now and and so when we're doing something counter to what it is that God 148 00:11:35.710 --> 00:11:41.590 intended, we know that there's going to be opposition to that and it's actually 149 00:11:41.590 --> 00:11:45.029 in the spirit realm right. So we have to we have to know what 150 00:11:45.149 --> 00:11:50.820 we're going into. So that's why I really caution those that are talking to 151 00:11:50.019 --> 00:11:54.620 someone who's abortion minded not let adoption be the very first thing, but kind 152 00:11:54.659 --> 00:12:01.529 of kind of build that rapport in that trust and then offered as an option. 153 00:12:01.809 --> 00:12:05.529 It definitely needs to be offered. I mean I am a big advocate 154 00:12:05.610 --> 00:12:07.450 of it being offered, even if, even if right a way, you 155 00:12:07.570 --> 00:12:11.769 know that the woman has said. You know what, before I do that, 156 00:12:11.929 --> 00:12:16.080 I would parent. It's still needs to be offered because what we found 157 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:20.120 when we started the ministry it was people are so uncomfortable around the subject of 158 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:26.879 adoption that they sometimes don't even mention it. And so I'm a huge advocate 159 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:30.990 of, you know, training people how to mention it and how to build 160 00:12:31.029 --> 00:12:35.429 that rapport first, before we do just cut can eat. Can you give 161 00:12:35.509 --> 00:12:41.190 us some specifics about what situations or statements you hear from the abortion minded moms 162 00:12:41.669 --> 00:12:50.740 that trigger you into feeling this is the time to mention adoption? A lot 163 00:12:50.779 --> 00:12:54.580 of times, you know well, as you both know, every situation is 164 00:12:54.820 --> 00:13:00.370 so, so different, and I'm really trying to listen to the heart of 165 00:13:00.490 --> 00:13:05.490 that woman. Tell me that there's something that's going to keep her from being 166 00:13:05.570 --> 00:13:09.610 a parent. Okay, now, obviously, if they're in the situation, 167 00:13:09.730 --> 00:13:13.440 they're coming to an abortion clinic. They don't want to parent. That's just 168 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:16.639 the truth. They don't want to parent, they're trying to in that process. 169 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:22.960 And so once built that rapport with her and that trust and I've broken 170 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:26.840 down and maybe she's telling me you know what, like Elf for instance, 171 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:31.389 and two weeks ago I had a woman that was coming to an abortion clinic 172 00:13:31.830 --> 00:13:35.710 stop her in the per working long before she went in and she had lost 173 00:13:35.789 --> 00:13:41.259 her jug due to the COVID nineteen crisis. And so for her I was 174 00:13:41.340 --> 00:13:46.460 able to find out that it was a financial reason. Okay, so, 175 00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:50.860 once I've isolated that reason. What I like to do is kind of talk 176 00:13:50.940 --> 00:13:56.129 to them in more depth about that and find out, you know, where 177 00:13:56.169 --> 00:14:01.409 they stand on seeing can they see past today? A lot of times when 178 00:14:01.450 --> 00:14:05.370 someone's in a crisis mode like that, it just can't see past today, 179 00:14:05.889 --> 00:14:13.480 and and then reminding them that the choice of abortion is forever, whereas the 180 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:18.600 circumstances can change with the help of, you know, our ministry or ministries 181 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:22.960 like ours. And then if she still is saying, you know, I 182 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:28.029 just cannot parent, here's the reasons why. That's when I will usually go 183 00:14:28.269 --> 00:14:31.429 in with the option of a option for her and kind of just see where 184 00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:37.029 she is about her knowledge of adoption. Every woman comes to the situation print. 185 00:14:37.470 --> 00:14:41.220 I have many women who have been in the foster care system, so 186 00:14:41.379 --> 00:14:46.059 they have the idea of the adoption is foster care, and so we have 187 00:14:46.299 --> 00:14:52.419 to learn to just spel that myth. That is number one. Appreciate you 188 00:14:52.580 --> 00:14:56.009 mentioned Jessica, and one of the things that I think you know us, 189 00:14:56.330 --> 00:15:01.929 I would say white Christians especially don't really understand, is that we deal with 190 00:15:01.970 --> 00:15:07.090 a lot of African American young ladies at the abortion clinic and the statistics are 191 00:15:07.129 --> 00:15:11.320 a lot of those women have either been in the foster care system or know 192 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:15.440 people that have been, and when we say adoption, they hear foster care, 193 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.080 and so talk a little bit about, if you can, how we 194 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:24.029 how we dispel that that lie. That's not they're not the same, even 195 00:15:24.070 --> 00:15:26.350 though foster care is not a bad thing. No one's saying that it is. 196 00:15:26.470 --> 00:15:28.429 They're just some people that have some bad experiences. Have had some bad 197 00:15:28.470 --> 00:15:33.629 experiences in the foster care system. But how do we? How do we, 198 00:15:33.590 --> 00:15:37.860 and again I don't know if it's not just African American women, but 199 00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:41.620 the statistics are that, you know, in the fall care system there's a 200 00:15:41.659 --> 00:15:43.899 lot of African American right, ladies that grow up in that. Yeah, 201 00:15:45.019 --> 00:15:48.220 young men that grow up in that. How do we dispel those myths and 202 00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:52.289 how do we separate those two things? Foster Care in adoption? These two 203 00:15:52.289 --> 00:15:56.409 are not the same in a way that she can hear that. I think 204 00:15:56.529 --> 00:16:00.009 the the biggest thing that I do when I'm speaking to a woman and I 205 00:16:00.169 --> 00:16:03.720 find out that that's on her radar, it's like a red flag for her. 206 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:08.200 She's saying foster care. The first thing that I do is make sure 207 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:14.919 she understands the difference, and what I lead with is that adoption is making 208 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:22.629 a plan for her baby before that baby's birth and that mother choosing a family 209 00:16:22.750 --> 00:16:26.269 for that child. So if you're able to put it like that to someone, 210 00:16:26.309 --> 00:16:33.100 I think it helps ease all those fears that like maybe if she was 211 00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:37.539 in the foster care system herself. We all know, unfortunately, many of 212 00:16:37.700 --> 00:16:41.740 the children that come through foster care do not remain with one family and depending 213 00:16:41.740 --> 00:16:47.610 on the age that you start in foster care, you can be bounced between 214 00:16:48.090 --> 00:16:52.250 eight to ten family sometimes it's the average you're entering, you know, around 215 00:16:52.690 --> 00:16:57.690 zero to two years old. So that's really the main thing because remember, 216 00:16:59.250 --> 00:17:03.320 obviously we're talking about it from a sidewalk counselor perspective. We may not have 217 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:06.440 a whole lot of time, so we've got to know, we got to 218 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:10.400 be armed and prepared for the information. That is the number one thing I 219 00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:15.230 would say to always lead with, because that kind of that helps ease those 220 00:17:17.630 --> 00:17:21.829 anxious thoughts that they're having about adoption. And then I usually get more questions 221 00:17:21.869 --> 00:17:25.710 from them after that. Sometimes they still shut me down about adoption, but 222 00:17:25.829 --> 00:17:29.829 there are many times where they ask more questions because when a woman feels like 223 00:17:30.099 --> 00:17:34.700 she has the power to choose the family for her child and she's part of 224 00:17:34.859 --> 00:17:40.380 that and it can be done while she's still pregnant, that's very free for 225 00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:45.130 her and she doesn't feel as if a child's going to be taken from her 226 00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:49.210 and then placed into a system that she might not be part of. Along 227 00:17:49.289 --> 00:17:53.369 those same lines, I've talked with the very few times I have brought adoption 228 00:17:53.410 --> 00:18:00.319 up at at all, it is often perceived as only closed adoption and I 229 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:04.680 really knew very little about open versus closed adoption until I met you, frankly. 230 00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:07.759 So could you talk about that, because I think that's helpful too. 231 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:12.549 I knows when I have spoken about adoption, when I've described an open adoption, 232 00:18:14.190 --> 00:18:18.109 the women do seem more open to the idea. Yes, I find 233 00:18:18.109 --> 00:18:22.630 the same thing. So I always love for everybody to know as much as 234 00:18:22.750 --> 00:18:29.900 they can before counseling with, you know, women in these situations. And 235 00:18:30.140 --> 00:18:33.339 so the best way for us to break it down is that there are three 236 00:18:33.380 --> 00:18:41.019 types of adoptions. There is full open and then there's semi closed and closed. 237 00:18:41.059 --> 00:18:45.730 Okay, so I'll break that down. So the open is exactly what 238 00:18:45.890 --> 00:18:49.450 it what it sounds like. So the the mother and possibly the birth thought 239 00:18:49.450 --> 00:18:55.799 there as well have an open relationship with that child as that child is growing 240 00:18:55.880 --> 00:19:00.319 up. Now the adoptive family, along with the birth mother and possibly the 241 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:07.279 birth fathers around that how much open this there is in their comfort levels, 242 00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:11.349 and that's all done as part of that adoption plan that I was talking about. 243 00:19:14.029 --> 00:19:15.670 Now give you an example of that, because to help your listeners. 244 00:19:17.150 --> 00:19:23.269 So in our case we have it set up with my first mother that once 245 00:19:23.299 --> 00:19:27.859 a year, sometime time around her birthday, that her birth mother and the 246 00:19:27.980 --> 00:19:33.500 grandparents and even aunts and uncle's can come and visit. We usually spend an 247 00:19:33.539 --> 00:19:37.940 entire day with them and that way, you know, they are able to 248 00:19:37.059 --> 00:19:41.210 see her as she's growing up. We have such a good relationship with her 249 00:19:41.250 --> 00:19:47.930 birth family that I do send pictures throughout the year and the texts to let 250 00:19:48.009 --> 00:19:51.890 them know, you know, how she's growing. So that's the kind of 251 00:19:52.009 --> 00:19:56.599 openness that we have and there is. There's different levels of openness, but 252 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:03.160 that's just one one example. Semi closed would mean during the pregnancy, the 253 00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:10.990 the mother carrying the baby, would get to know the family that's going to 254 00:20:11.109 --> 00:20:15.549 adopt the baby, but she would have no identifying information about that family, 255 00:20:15.829 --> 00:20:22.180 so she wouldn't know their last names or address where they work, anything like 256 00:20:22.339 --> 00:20:26.539 that. There's a relationship and rapport that's being built during the pregnancy, but 257 00:20:26.740 --> 00:20:33.140 it's not going to extend after the child is born. Okay, and then 258 00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:38.849 the last one is closed, and that would mean that there is no relationship 259 00:20:40.329 --> 00:20:45.009 while the pregnancy is going on and none after. So no identifying informations going 260 00:20:45.049 --> 00:20:52.519 to be traded between the birth mother and the adoptive family. So just the 261 00:20:52.880 --> 00:21:00.039 adoption agency or an adoption lawyer would have those, those records field the hope 262 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.710 of that kind of breaks it down and honestly, ninety five percent of all 263 00:21:03.710 --> 00:21:11.589 adoptions today are open adoptions because years ago what they found through research was that 264 00:21:11.910 --> 00:21:18.940 children who were hidden, I should say not hidden, the information was hidden 265 00:21:18.940 --> 00:21:23.140 from them about their adoption stories or their birth parents, really did not adjust 266 00:21:23.180 --> 00:21:27.019 as well. It's not that they didn't love the family so they've been placed 267 00:21:27.099 --> 00:21:32.420 into. But remember when I said the beginning of this podcast is that we're 268 00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:37.009 doing something counter to what God intended. Okay, so inside of each of 269 00:21:37.170 --> 00:21:42.369 us as human being, there is a loaning to want to know who our 270 00:21:42.490 --> 00:21:45.769 parents are. I mean, you can't take that from a human it's just 271 00:21:45.930 --> 00:21:51.680 a natural thing within us. And so what they were finding was that a 272 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:57.559 lot of those that were adopted just were not able to handle some situations in 273 00:21:57.680 --> 00:22:02.309 life as well. So they shifted. I really don't know how many years 274 00:22:02.349 --> 00:22:06.990 ago, I would say, goodness, I mean life almost ten I'd say 275 00:22:07.029 --> 00:22:11.549 it's been at least fifteen or twenty years that that open adoption has really been 276 00:22:11.829 --> 00:22:18.259 the standard of adoptions in America. Yeah, have go ahead and and yes, 277 00:22:18.500 --> 00:22:21.539 I was gonna just touch on a little bit of what I had spoken 278 00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:25.900 about just just previously before this this question, this subject, where I'd introduced 279 00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:30.730 the racial component here. Like this is the big thing to focus on, 280 00:22:30.890 --> 00:22:33.369 but I think people do need to understand because at least where we're at here 281 00:22:33.410 --> 00:22:37.809 in Charlotte, it's probably seventy, five, eighty percent of the women that 282 00:22:37.849 --> 00:22:41.609 we see at the abortion clinics or African American. Right in your mind, 283 00:22:44.009 --> 00:22:48.039 is there a racial component to adoption? Are there? Is there a stigma 284 00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:53.480 within certain communities that's associated with adoption, and how do we get past that? 285 00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:56.839 If you know, if we can? Yeah, and are you saying 286 00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:03.990 a stigma associated as of white family adopting a black child, specifically adoption in 287 00:23:03.069 --> 00:23:07.910 general. Okay, I mean at least my I'll just full disclosure my experiences 288 00:23:07.950 --> 00:23:11.430 being within the African American community. Like adoption is a non starter in a 289 00:23:11.470 --> 00:23:15.259 lot of conversations. Yeah, and there's like this stigma that's attached to it, 290 00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:18.619 and I think it has to do with that conflation of foster care and 291 00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:22.539 adoption together, but there could be some other things. I am I wrong 292 00:23:22.700 --> 00:23:26.579 in my perception, Jessica? Yeah, no, actually, I think you're 293 00:23:26.779 --> 00:23:30.170 right in your perception of that and I've spent, you know, the last 294 00:23:30.210 --> 00:23:34.970 several years that have been working with option, adoption on these projects that we've 295 00:23:34.970 --> 00:23:38.210 been doing, trying to figure that out and I felt the Lord has given 296 00:23:38.289 --> 00:23:41.400 me some insight into that and I'm sure there's a lot more I need to 297 00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:45.519 learn, but what I find is that, if we're going to break it 298 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:52.400 down into different community groups, what I find is in the Caucasian community group, 299 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:57.789 adopted is thought of as an option, like it is something that definitely 300 00:23:57.869 --> 00:24:03.549 is on the forefront of someone's mind if they find themselves in a crisis pregnancy. 301 00:24:03.230 --> 00:24:07.349 With the African American community, what I've experienced and I've interviewed a lot 302 00:24:07.390 --> 00:24:11.740 of my friends about this. It is not something that's on the forefront of 303 00:24:11.859 --> 00:24:15.779 their minds. And then you're you hit on a little bit about the foster 304 00:24:15.859 --> 00:24:19.299 care system, and by no means of my saying that there's you know, 305 00:24:19.980 --> 00:24:23.609 just because the African American you know they've thought to the foster care system. 306 00:24:23.650 --> 00:24:30.009 But what I have found an interviewing is the stigmas that come with adoption are 307 00:24:30.170 --> 00:24:37.210 there mainly because of that foster care component and because of culture component, which 308 00:24:37.210 --> 00:24:41.599 would mean the African American community is a very tight knit community. It's a 309 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:47.279 very beautiful thing. Their families are usually are very tight knit, and what 310 00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:52.160 I have found is that community group, along with the Hispanic community group, 311 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:56.950 because both of them have very tight knit family groups, they look to find 312 00:24:57.269 --> 00:25:02.470 family membbers first and foremost, if they're in a crisis situation and a pregnancy 313 00:25:02.589 --> 00:25:07.420 like this, to help raise that child. And a lot of times what 314 00:25:07.539 --> 00:25:11.700 I have heard from my friends if is if that's not an option, that's 315 00:25:11.779 --> 00:25:18.660 when abortion is the next option. Okay, and then obviously adoptions not truly 316 00:25:18.779 --> 00:25:22.970 on the radar as much. This is that found across the board. So 317 00:25:22.890 --> 00:25:26.890 in those community groups that, like I said, have the tight knit families 318 00:25:27.490 --> 00:25:32.890 and I do think, especially for the African American community group, this is 319 00:25:33.130 --> 00:25:37.039 tied back to much more and I ever understood until I had someone sit down 320 00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:41.279 with me and explain it. It even goes as far back as into the 321 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:45.359 roots of slavery, and you know that's that's a whole nother you know, 322 00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:49.549 subject. But the way it was explained to me was that plays into their 323 00:25:49.750 --> 00:25:55.190 idea of what you said, Daniel, of a white family possibly adopting a 324 00:25:55.509 --> 00:26:00.430 child. You know that is African American. And one of the things is 325 00:26:00.509 --> 00:26:03.940 I talked with people and you know, as we train our sidewalk counselors and 326 00:26:04.019 --> 00:26:07.299 we you know, of course we want to mention adoption when it's appropriate, 327 00:26:07.779 --> 00:26:11.180 but sometimes, you know, we tell our folks that's not something we need 328 00:26:11.220 --> 00:26:14.980 to be mentioned on right away. And some folks, you know, most 329 00:26:15.019 --> 00:26:19.089 of our sidewalk counselors are, are white women and we do have, praise 330 00:26:19.130 --> 00:26:22.690 Gods Africanamerican young ladies that come and volunteer. But you know, I tell 331 00:26:22.730 --> 00:26:26.650 her so what comes you have to understand from their perspective. Again, when 332 00:26:26.690 --> 00:26:30.569 you have eighty percent of the women going in our African American so that's who 333 00:26:30.609 --> 00:26:33.920 you're talking to when you're saying, Hey, I'll adopt your baby, I'll 334 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:38.039 take your baby. That might sound really gracious and kind from your ears. 335 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:41.559 You know you hearing that. What they're hearing is, Hey, young black 336 00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:45.119 lady, you can't take care of your child, let let a rich white 337 00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:48.150 person take care of your town. I mean that's that's sometimes that's what they're 338 00:26:48.150 --> 00:26:51.230 here and we need to understand that. Yeah, that don't sound good to 339 00:26:51.309 --> 00:26:53.950 the ears. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so off. And I hear, 340 00:26:53.990 --> 00:26:57.950 I think you said it before, but that they would rather have the 341 00:26:59.069 --> 00:27:03.380 baby die then place that child for adoption. That's so frequently the response, 342 00:27:04.140 --> 00:27:07.859 and so as you're answering this question, I would love to hear how you 343 00:27:07.980 --> 00:27:11.059 would respond to that, because we do hear that all the time. And 344 00:27:11.180 --> 00:27:17.490 of course it's not just black women. White women going to the able dry 345 00:27:17.809 --> 00:27:19.410 coming and that's the response that you hear. That's right. Yeah, I'd 346 00:27:19.410 --> 00:27:23.289 rather have the abortion to give my baby to some that's right. Yeah, 347 00:27:23.289 --> 00:27:30.240 yeah, and that is you know, Fernie's idwalk counselors listening at. I 348 00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:32.920 know they've had that experience. I'm sure, like all of us have. 349 00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:37.599 I would say, you know, what I usually say after that is I'm 350 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:42.759 trying to get that woman into a mindset that she's seeing what she's getting ready 351 00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:45.549 to do, number one, as murder. I'll just be honest, like 352 00:27:47.109 --> 00:27:51.630 yeah, I need her to see in that moment that she is getting ready 353 00:27:51.670 --> 00:27:56.230 to serve her child to death. And and so if she says what you 354 00:27:56.309 --> 00:28:00.380 said, Vickie, right after you know we've mentioned, you know, this 355 00:28:00.539 --> 00:28:06.500 option of adopted her, you know, helping that person really understand. Obviously 356 00:28:06.579 --> 00:28:10.339 we're doing in truth, we're doing it in love, but helping her to 357 00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:15.690 understand that what she's getting ready to do is selfish, it's sinful and it 358 00:28:15.890 --> 00:28:21.210 is murder in the eyes of God. And there are many times I've seen 359 00:28:21.250 --> 00:28:26.690 women who, because no one would tell them in love that kind of truth. 360 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:30.000 I've seen them stop in their tracked and really think about what I just 361 00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:34.119 said to them, because it's shocking when you hear that come out of out 362 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.559 of someone's mouth, that what they're getting ready to do. So hoping them 363 00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:44.109 understand that you would rather put that innocent baby boy or girl to death then 364 00:28:44.230 --> 00:28:48.829 give that child a chance at life with a family who's willing to step in 365 00:28:49.109 --> 00:28:56.619 and say we will take this child as our own and love this child as 366 00:28:56.700 --> 00:29:00.019 our own. That may not be the message they want to hear in that 367 00:29:00.180 --> 00:29:07.059 moment, but we also understand us. I Walk Counselors and Frontline Ministry that 368 00:29:07.779 --> 00:29:12.569 this is the last stitch effort before a child is put to death. Did 369 00:29:12.569 --> 00:29:15.730 you say justice? Because one of the things in my mind that I'm thinking 370 00:29:15.970 --> 00:29:19.569 is, okay, a woman going into an abortion clinic, she's about to 371 00:29:19.650 --> 00:29:22.569 do and her mindset, and I'm not trying to, you know, broad 372 00:29:22.609 --> 00:29:26.519 brush every woman going into an abortion clinic. I'm not just trying to say 373 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:29.519 that I'm better than they are anything like that, but the reality is a 374 00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:33.880 woman going into an abortion clinic is doing one of the most selfish things that 375 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.279 a woman could kill her baby through. ABOORDTION's all right, we know, 376 00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:41.109 we understand that. And so when we're talking about adoption, we're really talking. 377 00:29:41.230 --> 00:29:44.950 We're trying to get her to go from zero to a thousand and like 378 00:29:45.309 --> 00:29:49.309 fifteen seconds, because adoption is one of the most selfless things that she can 379 00:29:49.589 --> 00:29:52.670 place her child to carry your child for now, want to place it with 380 00:29:52.710 --> 00:29:56.259 another family. Would you say that that's part of the component. You're asking 381 00:29:56.259 --> 00:29:59.819 them to come from one of the most selfish mindsets to one of the most 382 00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:03.940 selfless mindsets and it's a real heart seal in that moment. Yeah, that's 383 00:30:03.980 --> 00:30:08.210 exactly what we're asking them to do and it is a very, very difficult 384 00:30:08.210 --> 00:30:12.690 thing to do, because we all know that by the time a woman has 385 00:30:14.329 --> 00:30:18.730 entered into driving her car and getting up the morning going to that abortion clinic, 386 00:30:18.289 --> 00:30:22.200 something in her mind has told her that's what she wants to do and 387 00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:27.920 needs to do. So I will tell you the Times that it has has 388 00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:33.319 been a message that has been taken by a woman has been amazing to see. 389 00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:37.349 But, as you guys know, that message is not always something that 390 00:30:37.509 --> 00:30:41.950 is heard and it doesn't penetrate the heart. But going from selfish the selfless 391 00:30:42.470 --> 00:30:48.309 because, like you said, Daniel, placing a child into another family and 392 00:30:48.549 --> 00:30:52.940 knowing that you are not going to be there for all the first in life 393 00:30:53.099 --> 00:30:59.299 and all the milestones possibly and all these things is a very selfless thing to 394 00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:03.980 do. It means that you are loving that child more than you love yourself. 395 00:31:03.769 --> 00:31:07.450 And you know, I've seen that played out with our daughter's birth mother 396 00:31:07.690 --> 00:31:14.089 and you know, the choice of adoption does not come without wounds. We 397 00:31:14.210 --> 00:31:18.250 are thinking, we're so yeah, we're so thankful that these women choose life, 398 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:22.200 but we have to be sensitive to the fact that even with this choice 399 00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:26.039 there are wounds. And so I think the end of you were you were 400 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:32.039 dead on it when you said, you know, going from selfish the selfless. 401 00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:37.109 Great Way to put it. We pretireing up because in our in our 402 00:31:37.150 --> 00:31:41.829 Christian culture, in our American Christian culture, and rightly so, you know, 403 00:31:41.869 --> 00:31:45.390 adoption, we see it as a good and a godly thing, and 404 00:31:45.509 --> 00:31:47.819 we might be because of that because, you know, we look in the 405 00:31:47.859 --> 00:31:49.660 scripture and we see, hey, we're adopted by God, and so adoption 406 00:31:49.819 --> 00:31:52.619 is. I mean it's a wonderful thing, and it is, but we 407 00:31:52.660 --> 00:31:57.299 shouldn't be blind to the fact that even with adoption there are some wounds, 408 00:31:57.420 --> 00:32:02.089 there's some it's not just all place your baby with the family and then that's 409 00:32:02.130 --> 00:32:06.130 the end of it. Obviously there's stuff that goes on with all of that, 410 00:32:06.769 --> 00:32:10.930 which is why I think it's important to have a ministry like yours that 411 00:32:12.210 --> 00:32:15.119 is, you know, not just, you know, not just placing families 412 00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:22.240 and or placing connecting mothers with families that want to adopt children, but even 413 00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:24.359 just helping out with some of the language that we use and helping out with 414 00:32:24.519 --> 00:32:29.200 some of the sensitivities we need to have, obviously in light of the Gospel 415 00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:31.670 and light of God's word, if you could, because you've taught me some 416 00:32:31.910 --> 00:32:37.269 things over the years in talking about adoption and and just the verbage that we 417 00:32:37.430 --> 00:32:39.430 use. Right. So we've talked through this podcast so far. We've talked 418 00:32:39.470 --> 00:32:43.430 about, you know, placing your baby with adoption, but that's not always 419 00:32:43.470 --> 00:32:45.859 how Christians talk, even in front of an abortion clink, about adoption. 420 00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:49.460 Right. They use things like, you know, will take your baby, 421 00:32:49.500 --> 00:32:52.059 give your baby up for adoption. Are Those words and important? The words 422 00:32:52.059 --> 00:32:54.779 that we use, and we're talking about adoption in that context, important. 423 00:32:55.500 --> 00:33:01.369 They are so important. You know, the average person means no harm by 424 00:33:01.450 --> 00:33:06.250 what they're saying, but I will tell you, if you're dealing with a 425 00:33:06.410 --> 00:33:12.009 woman who is abortion minded, every word that you say is important because a 426 00:33:12.049 --> 00:33:15.200 lot of times we're dealing with a very short period of time when we are 427 00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:20.920 counseling with them. I will give you the biggest verbiage that is probably used, 428 00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:25.160 or most widely used, that is incorrect and people don't mean anything by 429 00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:29.509 it, but it is who it's something really need to change. When someone 430 00:33:29.750 --> 00:33:34.589 says put put your baby up for adoption, yeah, I cringe. I 431 00:33:34.710 --> 00:33:37.950 absolutely cringe. As an adoptive mom, you know how I help people to 432 00:33:38.029 --> 00:33:42.339 understand that. Never to say that is I say, you know, you 433 00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:46.900 put groceries up on the field, you do not put a child up for 434 00:33:46.900 --> 00:33:52.539 adoption. We are talking about a soul here. We are talking about a 435 00:33:52.740 --> 00:33:58.410 living human being. And so and I'm probably extra sensitive because I've got this 436 00:33:58.650 --> 00:34:02.410 child who, you know, our families always just celebrated adoption, but I 437 00:34:02.490 --> 00:34:07.730 always wanted to be careful that she felt and always knew that God had a 438 00:34:07.809 --> 00:34:12.639 plan for her life and she's exactly where she needs to be. I never 439 00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:15.960 wanted her to feel less then. Does that makes sense? I wanted to. 440 00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:20.960 I wanted her to know that this is exactive I had for her life. 441 00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:27.389 I would say like even using the word unwanted pregnancy. I know it's 442 00:34:27.429 --> 00:34:32.429 a lot of those probably have used to. Maybe saying unplanned pregnancy is probably 443 00:34:32.469 --> 00:34:37.980 a better verbiage, and that case is when you all grows up hearing unwanted 444 00:34:38.099 --> 00:34:45.820 pregnancy. That's a that's a hard thing sometimes for our minds to comprehend what 445 00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:49.019 they may feel like. They felt like they were own wanted. I will 446 00:34:49.059 --> 00:34:53.250 tell you. You know in both of you know our adoption story. She 447 00:34:53.489 --> 00:34:58.530 was so, so wanted. I mean our family prayed for her. We 448 00:34:58.530 --> 00:35:00.969 didn't know who she was going to be. Her pregnancy, you know, 449 00:35:01.170 --> 00:35:05.969 with her birth mom, was unplanned, that she was so wanted. And 450 00:35:06.130 --> 00:35:09.719 these children, they are, you know, unfortunately, their mothers are taking 451 00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:15.920 them into abortion clients. There are. There are thousands and actually one point 452 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:20.840 two million couples in America right now are waiting for an adopted child. So 453 00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:25.269 they are very wanted. So let me ask you just how you said don't 454 00:35:25.309 --> 00:35:29.469 say put a child up for adoption, but I'm not sure. I might 455 00:35:29.469 --> 00:35:31.949 have missed it. But what do we say? What are the better things 456 00:35:32.070 --> 00:35:37.500 to say? Okay, so what I really like to say is place a 457 00:35:37.539 --> 00:35:44.380 child into an adoptive family, because when you know about how like just change 458 00:35:44.460 --> 00:35:46.300 is your whole feeling, doesn't it? When you hear that like place a 459 00:35:46.300 --> 00:35:51.369 child compared to put up for adopt? When I could, I just saw 460 00:35:51.449 --> 00:35:54.650 that. Rely remember the moment that our little girl was literally placed into my 461 00:35:54.809 --> 00:36:00.050 arms the first time, right, and it's such a more of a loving, 462 00:36:00.329 --> 00:36:06.079 gentle approach. And remember, our words are so important around the subject, 463 00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:12.599 because this is a highly emotional subject or mom or abortion minded. HMM. 464 00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:16.960 Yeah, so even playing in the arms of another loving family is it's 465 00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:22.469 maybe a way to describe it. Yeah, or placed into an adoptive family, 466 00:36:22.510 --> 00:36:24.150 as usually. You know how I say that. You know, we 467 00:36:24.230 --> 00:36:28.989 actually just did a podcast last week about words and how words matter, the 468 00:36:29.030 --> 00:36:31.980 words that we use in front of the abortion center and how we even the 469 00:36:32.019 --> 00:36:37.059 word like abortion center versus abortion meal or abortion clinic and all these words. 470 00:36:37.139 --> 00:36:40.780 The words do matter and also we need to understand with the words that we 471 00:36:40.860 --> 00:36:46.610 use, they do carry weight and they can convey a picture and also words 472 00:36:46.889 --> 00:36:52.409 can empower. So when we're talking about placing your child, we're talking about 473 00:36:52.409 --> 00:36:54.690 we're almost empowering choice. You people talk about me. Yeah, choice as 474 00:36:54.730 --> 00:37:00.440 opposed to giving up your child. You are placing your child, taken up 475 00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:04.920 right, exactly, choosing and placing. Because, yeah, the real pro 476 00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:08.679 choice people are the people who are for life. Right, we're about choice. 477 00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:14.159 Yeah, the abortion industry, Plan Parenthood, pro abortion people, it's 478 00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:16.510 all about abortion. Right. There's no choices that are available. But if 479 00:37:16.550 --> 00:37:20.590 you look at I've even said it before, listen, the pro choice really 480 00:37:21.590 --> 00:37:23.309 people out here on the sidewalk, because we're offering you real choices. You 481 00:37:23.389 --> 00:37:28.230 can part your baby, you can place your child for adoption, you can 482 00:37:28.989 --> 00:37:32.300 within adoption. There's those three choices you broke down, open adoption, semi 483 00:37:32.380 --> 00:37:37.420 open adoption and a close adoption. So there's even more choices within that realm. 484 00:37:37.940 --> 00:37:39.460 And so it's just awesome to be able to my mind, the words 485 00:37:39.500 --> 00:37:45.969 I hear you saying are words that empower these mothers to to choose. That's 486 00:37:46.010 --> 00:37:50.449 right. And let me ask you. Sometimes we empower them to the point 487 00:37:50.530 --> 00:37:52.610 this. I have seen, and I wonder if you have seen it, 488 00:37:52.769 --> 00:37:58.760 where maybe adoption is mentioned, because they've painted such oblique picture to me and 489 00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:05.280 and said they really cannot have this child and they have been so convicted in 490 00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:08.880 the same ways that you mentioned, through the conviction of the terrible sin of 491 00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:15.389 what they're about to do and through empowering statements, and they choose then to 492 00:38:15.750 --> 00:38:22.550 parent rather than to place their child in the arms of another loving adoptive family. 493 00:38:22.869 --> 00:38:28.380 Have you seen that? Does that happen with you or? Okay, 494 00:38:28.420 --> 00:38:31.300 so are you mainly just asking if, like, if a woman has been 495 00:38:31.380 --> 00:38:37.420 presented with the adoption option and then she kind of walks on that path for 496 00:38:37.539 --> 00:38:39.739 wound, then she choose as to parent? Is that what you're asking? 497 00:38:39.820 --> 00:38:43.690 Have I seen some now sometimes walking down that path for a while? We 498 00:38:43.849 --> 00:38:45.849 did just have someone, we interviewed someone by the name of Ebony that we 499 00:38:45.929 --> 00:38:50.449 did a podcast, who was going to place your children, her child for 500 00:38:50.530 --> 00:38:55.079 adoption and then she she just came through, through the Gospel and through falling 501 00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:59.400 in love with the baby she was carrying, she decided to parent the child 502 00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:02.360 instead. But sometimes immediately they'll be saying, I'm going to kill this baby. 503 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:06.239 Then they'll be saying, oh, they'll hear about adoption, but then 504 00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:12.550 they'll be so convicted by by what we're saying, the truth of the Gospel, 505 00:39:12.630 --> 00:39:16.190 whatever, they and their hearts will go then to parenting and I honestly 506 00:39:16.230 --> 00:39:21.389 I've seen that more in my experience. That's what I see. They'll go 507 00:39:21.550 --> 00:39:27.860 from abortion to parenting more readily than from abortion to adoption. So I guess 508 00:39:27.860 --> 00:39:30.659 I'm asking, are you've seen something different, or is that what you see? 509 00:39:31.260 --> 00:39:37.380 I seek the same thing that you're seeing, but I probably obviously see 510 00:39:37.420 --> 00:39:43.730 the other component of going into adoption, because now our ministry is nationwide, 511 00:39:43.769 --> 00:39:47.010 so I get calls from all over. But yes, I actually worked with 512 00:39:47.090 --> 00:39:51.769 Evany and yeah, it was that's right, that's right. Yeah, that 513 00:39:51.969 --> 00:39:57.199 wasn't it was amazing, amazing situation and she came through that wonderfully and that's 514 00:39:57.239 --> 00:40:00.480 a great example of I would say a majority of the time what we do 515 00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:05.519 see is someone who's in that crisis mode, not seeing a way out, 516 00:40:05.719 --> 00:40:09.789 feeling like they can't parent, I'm going to go forward this abortion that, 517 00:40:10.070 --> 00:40:15.909 and I talked extensively with her about adoption and that was when I saw the 518 00:40:16.070 --> 00:40:22.260 soft putting occur and I felt in my heart that she was going to probably 519 00:40:22.300 --> 00:40:27.500 end up parenting that child. But I knew that the Holy Spirit was telling 520 00:40:27.539 --> 00:40:30.139 me to give her that option of adoption. It was the right timing and 521 00:40:30.739 --> 00:40:35.260 through that, I think, after we sip through that, you know many, 522 00:40:35.340 --> 00:40:38.090 many times, she was able to see herself in a position where she 523 00:40:38.409 --> 00:40:43.809 could parent that filed and that's what I see to Vicky. But because I 524 00:40:43.969 --> 00:40:46.929 do deal with a lot of situations for people across the nation, will call 525 00:40:47.170 --> 00:40:52.559 when when a woman has probably either tried to go to an abortion clinic already 526 00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:58.760 as an appointment scheduled fairly soon, or they're in a situation where they're they're 527 00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:02.239 calling on behalf of their daughter or granddaughter. I would say I'm in a 528 00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:07.949 unique situation because I'm able to talk directly to them about adoption from the get 529 00:41:07.070 --> 00:41:10.550 go because they know who they're calling. But if I was on the sidewalk 530 00:41:10.670 --> 00:41:17.070 situation what you just said is much more likely to occur. Yeah, so 531 00:41:17.309 --> 00:41:21.579 I hope for people listening, we hadn't, you know, we haven't tried 532 00:41:21.699 --> 00:41:27.059 to paint like this bleak picture that adoption stories never happened and that, you 533 00:41:27.139 --> 00:41:31.300 know, obviously don't want to discourage anyone from offering adoption. I just think 534 00:41:31.460 --> 00:41:37.130 it helps people to understand an appropriate time and that adoption, even though it's 535 00:41:37.170 --> 00:41:42.010 this wonderful thing, it's not always appropriate to share about. Are there any 536 00:41:42.010 --> 00:41:45.090 stories that you have, just so we can encourage people who are listening, 537 00:41:45.849 --> 00:41:50.440 of MOMS who've decided to place their children? Obviously, you guys story to 538 00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:53.840 but you've walked with Mother's, you've walked with parents that want to adopt. 539 00:41:54.880 --> 00:41:59.679 Their stories that you can share. They can encourage people that adoptions actually do 540 00:41:59.920 --> 00:42:04.429 take place in this in this realm of ministry. Yeah, we well, 541 00:42:04.469 --> 00:42:08.429 I'll give you a personal an example of that. So I would say I'm 542 00:42:08.469 --> 00:42:14.269 I goingness. Probably one of the first few years I was doing sidewalk ministry, 543 00:42:14.349 --> 00:42:16.539 I was out in front of the abortion clinic. I was on the 544 00:42:17.019 --> 00:42:22.579 sound system, on the microphone, and I saw a young woman going into 545 00:42:22.739 --> 00:42:28.420 the clinic and, you know, just started really giving the Gospel over that 546 00:42:28.659 --> 00:42:35.010 sound system. She was inside for maybe two or three minutes and when she 547 00:42:35.170 --> 00:42:37.369 came out I just expected her to go straight to her car, maybe get 548 00:42:37.449 --> 00:42:39.969 something out of her car, put something in, I'm not sure. And 549 00:42:40.090 --> 00:42:45.760 do you know, she walks straight over to me on that microphone, which 550 00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:47.480 is a pretty long walk. I mean it's not a short walk. You 551 00:42:47.559 --> 00:42:51.360 know they've gone. They got some time to change her mind. What they 552 00:42:51.400 --> 00:42:53.920 want to talk to you or not sure. And we talked for a few 553 00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:58.829 mis she said I heard what you were saying on the microphone and I remember 554 00:42:58.869 --> 00:43:01.110 I was I was saying I was getting the Gospel, but I was often 555 00:43:01.150 --> 00:43:07.469 talking about the different options and so I mean what's associated with these of those 556 00:43:07.550 --> 00:43:10.150 options? And she said, I heard what you're saying I want to know 557 00:43:10.349 --> 00:43:15.739 more about you, know what you can offer, and I felt very lad 558 00:43:16.059 --> 00:43:21.579 to then talk to her about adoption the as she wanted to know what the 559 00:43:21.619 --> 00:43:27.099 options were. That she was five weeks pregnant, so very, very early. 560 00:43:27.809 --> 00:43:30.610 I walked with her throughout her entire pregnancy. She ended up placing that 561 00:43:30.690 --> 00:43:37.329 child for adoption and that was due to that ten minutes on the sidewalk. 562 00:43:37.650 --> 00:43:43.559 He had really, you know, heard what adoption was, didn't understand what 563 00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:46.679 her options were, but knew that she could not parents. So I think 564 00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:52.039 that's a great example of kind of getting that trust of the woman, seeing 565 00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:57.190 where their thought processes are and then giving them the true options. That, 566 00:43:57.309 --> 00:44:00.710 honor God, there's only two, you know. Yeah, I disagree with 567 00:44:00.989 --> 00:44:06.510 ministries that I give a woman three options. That makes me very, very 568 00:44:07.670 --> 00:44:13.860 only offer them abortion as an option, adoption, imparent yeah right, yeah, 569 00:44:14.260 --> 00:44:16.260 I really disagree with that. So when I'm when I'm counseling with a 570 00:44:16.300 --> 00:44:20.780 woman on the sidewalk or in the RV, I make it very clear that 571 00:44:20.900 --> 00:44:23.690 there are only two options, honor had, and I always tell them that 572 00:44:23.849 --> 00:44:28.449 that on our God and and I never talk about abortion from that point board. 573 00:44:28.489 --> 00:44:31.329 Always let them know that it's either parenting or adoption. That may be 574 00:44:32.289 --> 00:44:37.840 some of the reason why I find that the women I've worked with have gone 575 00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:43.719 on to adopt. More is one. I think the Lord gave that testimony 576 00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:46.599 to our family. And then secondly is when you start talking like that that 577 00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:52.119 there's only two options it you know, it takes that other option off the 578 00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:55.750 table, because what I'm really see the Lord doing because obviously you know, 579 00:44:57.070 --> 00:45:00.949 you guys know, and I know the Lord's heart was for that mother to 580 00:45:00.070 --> 00:45:06.269 mother that child. Okay, and so that's the first option that we want 581 00:45:06.309 --> 00:45:08.820 to always talk to them about. But the other option, if it's just 582 00:45:09.380 --> 00:45:14.500 not feasible for her to parent, the only other option, in my eyes, 583 00:45:14.739 --> 00:45:17.460 and I think in the Lord's eyes, is a option. So I'm 584 00:45:17.579 --> 00:45:23.130 never mentioning abortion from that point forward, other than to tell them if you 585 00:45:23.250 --> 00:45:28.369 go forward with this, you know this is what you can expect. Yeah, 586 00:45:28.849 --> 00:45:31.409 yeah, of course, never validating. I mean, in reality, 587 00:45:32.170 --> 00:45:36.079 is abortion an option for them? Surely they can go in there, they 588 00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:37.880 can kill their child, but we don't validate that as an option, just 589 00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:42.079 like, you know, a mother of a three year old, is it 590 00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:45.039 an option for her to take that three year old child and throw that child 591 00:45:45.079 --> 00:45:46.920 off a bridge. She could choose to do that, but there's going to 592 00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:51.829 be consequences and we would never validate that as an option. And that's what 593 00:45:51.989 --> 00:45:55.710 people you know, I understand some well meeting people within pregnancy centers and whatever, 594 00:45:55.789 --> 00:46:00.949 want to seem neutral, but we have to understand that there is no 595 00:46:00.110 --> 00:46:04.070 neutral ground. We're dealing with, dealing children in the womb right like. 596 00:46:04.190 --> 00:46:07.659 We've got to take a stand and we've gone to speak what God's word says, 597 00:46:07.139 --> 00:46:09.420 and when we do that, God honors that. Like you're, like 598 00:46:09.500 --> 00:46:13.739 you're talking about. I mean, I've actually seen Jessica, because you volunteered 599 00:46:13.780 --> 00:46:17.059 here on the sidewalks with us in Charlotte for years and I've seen you. 600 00:46:17.460 --> 00:46:22.929 I've seen little block life, your daughter who you guys adopted, and I've 601 00:46:22.969 --> 00:46:27.889 seen you share her story with abortion minded women on the sidewalk or even car 602 00:46:28.090 --> 00:46:31.369 side, and I've seen God just use her, you know, not not 603 00:46:31.530 --> 00:46:36.360 using her as a pawn or anything like that, but uses or sweet little 604 00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:38.519 face, Ye, to soften hearts. Yeah, I will tell you one 605 00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:42.320 story, because I know we got a wrap up, but just because the 606 00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:46.039 story I remember about you and Blithe was being on the sidewalk and a one 607 00:46:46.119 --> 00:46:52.269 of the pro socalled pro choice people with his sign came over to really protest 608 00:46:52.429 --> 00:46:55.269 what you were doing. You were talking car side with someone, I think, 609 00:46:55.429 --> 00:47:00.269 and you finished with that woman and turned to him with that sweet blythe 610 00:47:00.429 --> 00:47:05.179 next to you, and told him blythe story. And that man, that's 611 00:47:05.219 --> 00:47:08.300 the only time I have ever seen this happen. He took his sign, 612 00:47:08.460 --> 00:47:12.380 he what he didn't say a word. His eyes teared up. He took 613 00:47:12.460 --> 00:47:15.809 his sign, he put the sign in the car and drove away and I 614 00:47:15.929 --> 00:47:20.010 never saw him again. I remember that day. I remember and I will 615 00:47:20.090 --> 00:47:23.090 tell you, guys, when you know she has been with me on the 616 00:47:23.170 --> 00:47:29.489 sidewalks. Her testimony is so powerful. I feel like God does use those 617 00:47:29.769 --> 00:47:36.800 that have been spared from such an atrocity as abortion speak louder than then we 618 00:47:36.920 --> 00:47:40.079 could ever dream of speaking. Sometimes I have seen that when we've been able 619 00:47:40.119 --> 00:47:45.949 to stop people car side before they enter into the parking lot of the abortion 620 00:47:45.070 --> 00:47:50.989 clinic. That is such a powerful test stimony of being able to see a 621 00:47:51.110 --> 00:47:55.269 child that was spared from a murder in a building just like the one that 622 00:47:55.309 --> 00:48:00.260 they're getting ready to enter into. There's there's a breaking that happens. I've 623 00:48:00.300 --> 00:48:06.420 seen some of the biggest men in the world, the toughest men, literally 624 00:48:06.659 --> 00:48:10.659 break down when life has shown them the fetal models and hold them part of 625 00:48:10.780 --> 00:48:15.289 her testimony with me there with her, of course. Yeah, and it's 626 00:48:15.329 --> 00:48:20.570 unbelievable how how God can reach someone by a child who's been spared from that, 627 00:48:20.809 --> 00:48:23.610 when they get, when they catch the glimpse of what their child will 628 00:48:23.650 --> 00:48:27.960 be in just a few years. Yeah, I remember you saying to him, 629 00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:30.480 can you look at this space, and we're all looking at precious supplies 630 00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:34.719 face, and you say, can you look at this face and tell her 631 00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:38.920 she should never have lived? Right? And it's that really is a question. 632 00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:45.389 I asked the quote unquote pro choicers a lot, as well as the 633 00:48:45.469 --> 00:48:50.349 ones that are coming to the clinic to abort their children, because I've never 634 00:48:50.469 --> 00:48:54.739 had one person take me up on that right and I've I've come up against 635 00:48:54.739 --> 00:49:01.500 probably some of the toughest, most wicked pro choice protesters, whatever you want 636 00:49:01.500 --> 00:49:06.019 to call them, in the world, and they cannot do it. You 637 00:49:06.179 --> 00:49:13.929 just can't. And everybody inherently knows that every little boy and girl deserves life, 638 00:49:14.889 --> 00:49:19.010 and so so I just feel like God is moving and we are so 639 00:49:19.170 --> 00:49:23.170 thankful for what you guys are doing cities for life and training others. Hopefully, 640 00:49:23.170 --> 00:49:28.719 those that are listening to this podcast will have a fire letting them to 641 00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:34.159 get out on the sidewalks across this nation and really be the hands and feet 642 00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:38.230 of Jesus and we you know, anytime you're telling your neighbor that what they're 643 00:49:38.230 --> 00:49:43.030 getting ready to do is sin, and in this case it's murder, and 644 00:49:43.269 --> 00:49:46.269 you're doing that in love. That is that is the deepest love that you 645 00:49:46.349 --> 00:49:49.909 can give her someone is that they not go down, you know, that 646 00:49:50.030 --> 00:49:53.980 path of destruction. Yeah, a man will say it, Jessica. If 647 00:49:54.059 --> 00:49:57.820 folks that are listening to this podcast want to get in touch with you, 648 00:49:57.900 --> 00:50:00.260 how do they get in touch you? What's the best way to connect with 649 00:50:00.340 --> 00:50:04.300 with you and with option adoption? Sure, well, we have a website. 650 00:50:04.460 --> 00:50:10.530 It's option adoptioncom and then we are on facebook as well and you can 651 00:50:10.570 --> 00:50:17.090 find us with under option adoption and can message us if there's, you know, 652 00:50:17.289 --> 00:50:21.679 any type of questions that they have. We work mainly, again, 653 00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:24.840 with the abortion minded men and women and we get a lot of questions from 654 00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:30.239 families. If we have you know children that need to be placed into adoptive 655 00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:35.909 families. That's not a component of our mistry, but we can direct them 656 00:50:36.070 --> 00:50:42.429 to wonderful Christian adoption agencies and Christian adoption lawyers to kind of help them on 657 00:50:42.550 --> 00:50:45.309 that journey. That's the route that God's calling their family to. Yeah, 658 00:50:45.590 --> 00:50:49.230 that's good. I appreciate that. So, yeah, I guess connect with 659 00:50:49.309 --> 00:50:55.099 Jessica Option adoptioncom. But Yeah, Jessica, we appreciate your time, appreciate 660 00:50:55.139 --> 00:51:00.099 you sharing your testimony, appreciate your heart. I know that just having you 661 00:51:00.460 --> 00:51:02.059 as a part of our ministry, as you were here in Charlotte's, just 662 00:51:02.139 --> 00:51:06.769 such a blessing, as blessing seeing what you guys are doing and just hearing 663 00:51:07.289 --> 00:51:09.610 what got us doing through you guys. And it's when encourage those who are 664 00:51:09.690 --> 00:51:14.489 listening to go to our website, because Jessica talked a little bit about sidewalk 665 00:51:14.530 --> 00:51:17.409 counseling and Nashally, and so we started the sidewalks for life websites. I 666 00:51:17.489 --> 00:51:22.199 walks, the number four LIFECOM and people can go there and get equipped to 667 00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:24.400 do sidewalk counseling, get trained up to be a sidewalk counsel in your area 668 00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:28.880 and we hope that's a blessing you. Hope this podcast was blessing you. 669 00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:37.789 Guys. Please share it and until next time, God, bless me for 670 00:51:37.030 --> 00:51:50.179 love. Give me our loft for gratitude. I know it will cost me 671 00:51:50.380 --> 00:51:58.179 my life. No, Sing's too precious. And some you