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Sept. 24, 2020
Abortion and Sex Trafficking - Interview with Justice Ministries Founder Mark Blackwell
Sex trafficking, like abortion, is a full-frontal attack on the value of human life. It’s important to see how these two evils collide and how we as Christians can address both issues. Join Vicky and Daniel as they interview Justice Ministries...
Sex trafficking, like abortion, is a full-frontal attack on the value of human life. It’s important to see how these two evils collide and how we as Christians can address both issues. Join Vicky and Daniel as they interview Justice Ministries founder, Mark Blackwell, to talk about this vital topic.
Transcript
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And I am yours, I am
yours, I am yours, s and
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me, Lord. I welcome to
the Gospel Center pro life podcast. In
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this episode we're going to talk with
Mark Blackwell from justice ministries about how abortion
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and sex trafficking go hand in hand
and how we can help women in those
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situations. Stay tuned. Send Me
Lord. I felt show passish touch your
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home use. Welcome to the Gospel
Center pro life podcasts. Appreciate you guys
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listening. As we promised a couple
of weeks ago, we're going to do
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this episode and really focus on the
issue of sex trafficking and abortion and how
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those issues collide, and we have
a special guest here with us, Mark
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Black well with justice ministries. He's
going to introduce himself and just a minute.
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But, Vicky, this was a
something we just kind of as we
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were talking about the domestic violence when
we did that episode a couple of weeks
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ago. This is another one of
those issues that we really felt like people
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need to be informed about how these
issues, how domestic abused, domestic violence
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and abortion kind of collide, and
then how sex trafficking collides with the issueable
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because we've seen it out there where
we have had strong suspicions that there has
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been sex trafficked women being brought and
we never really know quite what to do
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and we have done things like call
the national hotline, but without a whole
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lot of success. So we thought
it was time to call in an x
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heard and really find out what we
can do, what to look for and
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how we should respond as sidewalk counselors. Yeah, so, guys, those
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who are out in front of abortion
centers and you trying to reach out and
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bring help and hope to the women
going in, you'll see some of these
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situations. Maybe some of the stuff
that that mark says look out for you'll
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recognize all. I've seen that in
the past and I just didn't know.
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And so this is just a help
equip you guys, in form you guys,
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and so mark, just just go
ahead and introduce yourself. Man.
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What's your title? What's the ministry
all about? And then we'll get into
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some of the some of the INS
and out. Sure thing we'll first off,
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just thanks so much for having me. I'm glad to be here and
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it's great to have discussion with you
all and I feel this is a very
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similar fight, a matter of fact, I often say that, you know
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us being a counter sex trafficking agency, that it's really just an extension of
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the pro life movement. Yes,
that's what we're about and you know,
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we're often times, you know,
fighting for these individuals that are at high
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risk of death themselves with what they're
trapped in. And so I just appreciate
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all that you do so much.
I we've partnered with you personally and on
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many efforts and and just again happy
to be here and thanks for having me.
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Yeah, but yeah, so I'm
mark black well, I'm the president
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and founder of justice ministries and we've
been around for a little over ten years.
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For me, basically, the issue
of sex trafficking came on my radar
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my last semester in college. I
was at a conference in Atlanta, Georgia,
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many of you know, called The
Passion Conference. Okay, yeah,
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and that's where I learned about the
issue of sex trafficking, world blight and
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what was going on and and God
just broke my heart for the issue and
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I felt God was saying to serve
this population of people. I didn't know
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what that would look like. I
didn't know that would mean starting an agency
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or anything like that. But I
just felt this call to serve this population.
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Yeah, and after doing kind of
my homework and research of what was
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going on overseas, but also stateside, and I found that wow, there's,
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you know, young women and even
teenage girls being raped and sold for
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profit on the streets of Charlotte.
You know, as a man, as
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a Christian, even as a Charlotte, and you know, I couldn't sit
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on that information and I felt this
called start my own backyard. Yeah,
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and so, yeah, so God
just kind of prompted us in that we
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were the first kind of trafficking agency
in the Charlotte region and one of the
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only few in the state at the
time. You know, ten years ago
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the term human trafficking was starting to
get some amentium people were labeling what was
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going on in this modern day slavery
and starting to get a sense of what
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was happening, but it was still
very, very new, you know.
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So there was a lot of kind
of pioneering effort to be done here.
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But again, after seeing the need, God just called us to serve this
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group. And you know, our
models basically based off the story of the
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Good Samaritan. Yeah, there's no
secret salce to what we do. We're
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just meeting people and their time of
need and their tongue of vulnerability and as
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the you know, as the church, you know, try trying to help
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meet those needs. whichers are very
basic. You know that. It's safe
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shelter, it's transportation them out of
the ditch and getting them to an end.
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Absolutely and obviously the complexities, you
know, with the particular subject of
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sex trafficking. By the end of
the day, these are just people that
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need help, but like all of
us, so we try to provide whatever
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resources we can and essentially help them
on their journey to independence and and that's
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that's really the name of the game. Yeah, so let me ask so
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just I'm sure guys, you,
you who are listening, you've heard the
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term sex trafficking and and maybe even
lately it seems like there's been an uptick
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in this people's attention towards sex trafficking
and and there's maybe different terms or in
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things that are associated with that,
but just define our term, root with
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sex traffick, what it was that
mean? You talked about modern day slave
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grades. Just que people into what
exactly we're talking about. So so,
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on a bigger scale. There's there's
human trafficking. I mean that that's how
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you would define this crime. Yeah, and that involves Labor trafficking, that
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involves sex trafficking. That can involve
things like organ harvesting. Yeah, child
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soldiers, you know, any really
any with with the Labor side, all
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kinds of force labor, from a
gray and warehousing to live in, maids
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and, you know, housekeepers and
that kind of thing. Right, and
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sometimes those intersect into sex trafficking as
well. Just because someone's being labor traffick
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they may be exploited sexually as well. Yeah, so there's it's not a
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super clean, you know thing to
say, Oh, that's definitely this case
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or definitely that case. But where
we target most of our effort is in
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the topic of sex trafficking. Yeah, and and again based here in the
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US. With that said, we've
served we serve predominantly a adult females,
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yeah, but we have served minors
and girls, also boys, some men
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and those that identify with the Lgbtq
community, just all the above. And
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we've also taken on some labor trafficking
cases as well when they've come across our
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desk. Yeah, but our main
focus is sexual exploitation and sex trafficking is
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where we kind of spend most of
our time. Out The way you define
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sex trafficking in the US by law, it's where there's a basically a commercial
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sex act done by force, fraud
or Corsion, or in which the individual
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is under eighteen years old. Yeah. So. So, with that said,
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do you hear about a sixteen year
old prostitute? Legally not possible,
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right. Yeah, a child doesn't
have the right to consent into this lifestyle.
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Right. So if they're under eighteen, it's automatic trafficking. Yeah,
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and if they're over eighteen, if
they're an adult, then you you have
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to prove force, frauder corsion happened
that push them into this commercial sex industry,
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which can be what we see is
traditional prostitution. It can be exotic
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dancing, it can be camming,
it can be pornography, it can be
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even in like the sugar daddy sugar
baby context. There is a range.
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Most of what we're doing with is
what we would think of is force prostitution.
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Yeah, yeah, okay, and
I've heard and tell me if I'm
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wrong about this, but we're right
now we're in Charlotte, North Carolina.
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Now people are listening from all over
the United States and people listen from all
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over the world to this podcast.
Sure, but just talking about Charlotte and
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just the context here. What are
this is ex I've heard it's Charlotte's like
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number for the nation for sex chaffing. Is that correct or is that in
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Korect? The numbers are interesting.
What do we get our numbers and stats?
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Will we get it from data and
and data is a little bit all
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over the place with this topic of
sex trafficking in the US. So I
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leaned towards more conservative. But I'll
put it this way. North Carolina,
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by the stats through the National Resource
Center, is a top ten state.
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Yeah, and Charlotte is the number
one location in North Carolina. Yeah,
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so you could argue then that Charlotte
is a top ten city. Yeah,
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in the US that you can make
that, that argument. It is there's
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something about Charlotte in particular that would
cause it to be or can you identify
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what? What makes something a top
city? Absolutely, you know. I
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mean obviously the the east coast and
generals more densely populated and you have between
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Miami and New York, Charlotte's kind
of a midway point. Yeah, we're
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also a midway point between Atlanta and
DC. Yeah, we have a major
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international airport and we're not far from
I forty. We're right here at eighty
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five or right here at I seventy
seven, and you can get anywhere in
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the country from Charlotte pretty quickly.
Yeah, we host a lot of major
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events. Within the past decade we've
hosted both the RNC and the DNC.
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We have all the major sports teams, we have NASCAR, we have we
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host all kind of large events and
anytime there's large populations of people being brought
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to a community, traffickers see that
as potential business. Yeah, so it's
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not. It's not that there's something
wrong with Charlotte in general that like,
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Oh, Charlotte is just has this
high risk. It's that, like any
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large metropolitan area, we're hosting large
events and we're easy to travel to and
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exit from and when you have that, that's just that sets up the ingredients
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to be a high risk location for
sex trafficking. You know, Charlotte is
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also one of the abortion capitals or
a southeast particularly where we minister at latrobe.
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Sure is that is there a link
there between so many people coming really
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from all over the southeast for abortions
here in Charlotte and the incidence of sex
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trafficking? Yeah, I think so. I mean I think those those two
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issues go hand in hand. You
know, sex is something that its main
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function is to produce children. You
know, I feel like in our culture
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it's sad that I think we almost
need to find that from it is like
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people have sexual relations to procreate,
like that is the deal. But it's
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become so perverted and twisted and brought
into other categories and the idea of having
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one partner for your life is just
this foreign concept, like we were so
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far away from like the biblical direction
on how to raise a family and how
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to do this. So yeah,
absolutely. You know, if someone is
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in sex trafficking and they're being a
sexually exploited multiple times a day, even
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if they're on pills or using any
kind of protection, still the chance of
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pregnancy is high and if they're seen
as a product that needs to produce,
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the trafficker doesn't want to take nine
months off, so he's going to most
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likely have her terminate that child.
There's another version of this that we've seen.
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That's even in kind of the if
you can have a further underbelly to
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to sex trafficking, where where that's
not happening, sometimes the child is brought
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to term and used as either leverage
for the victim or that child then sold
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into some type of human trafficking as
well. So it mean it's a terrible,
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terrible situation, but certainly, yeah, that the two do go hand
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in hand. Yes, so,
no, sounds abortion is helping the sex
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trafficker to cover over, Oh yeah, cover his his crimes. Absolutely.
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Yeah, yeah, that's that is
correct. Yeah, I mean we're dealing
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with a society, like you said, sex is just this recreational thing and
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obviously we know that God created sex
as an enjoyable thing. Sure, right,
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absolutely, yeah. But then we
take that, as you said,
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and pervert that and make that that
it's only about enjoyment, not about procreation.
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And you've got it's crazy. We're
talking about an industry. Yes,
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I mean from our perspective it's crazy. We're talking about an industry, the
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abortion industry, that makes, you
know, million billions of dollars every year
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off of this thing called abortion.
But I mean you're dealing with an industry,
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the sex trafficking industry, multibillion dollar. Yeah, that's one of the
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places when to get at this is
a multi billion dollar industry. If the
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level of money that is involved with
this. I mean even ten years ago
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when we started, I remember one
of the the phrases people would use would
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say, if Nike, Google,
starbucks and Walmart can bind their profits set
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global sex trafficking still bringing in more
money. Yeah, and those companies combined.
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And so so you're dealing with a
megacrime industry. Yeah, and the
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unfortunately, when you have big money, it greases a lot of wheels,
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even all the way throughout government and
and yeah, and the systems that should
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be stopping that and keeping that from
happening. Well, if you have high
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places of power and limited morals and
there's money floating around, that is a
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bad combination. Yeah, it is
a bad combination. You unleash, just
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open the floodgates for all kinds of
evil. Absolutely. I know on social
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media and other rounds there's a lot
of this talk about child trafficking and just
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it seems like it's on an uptick. Is that? Is that the case
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that there is an uptick in sect
traffing. You're just more people are talking
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about it. I don't know,
a couple of stings. The the awareness
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has increased. Okay, child trafficking
has been going on since well before we
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started and well beyond that. I
mean, yeah, it's been going on
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for very, very long time.
It is gaining traction and child trafficking specifically
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is getting more attention. There's some
restructuring going on the federal law enforcement levels
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that I think is is having a
ripple effect that there is being beneficial.
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Okay, free up more manpower to
to go after this subject. In general.
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Law enforcement agencies are tax then and
spread then. Right. Yeah,
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there is some reprioritizing that's been going
on that I think is going alongside with
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with some of the increase that we're
seeing. And you know, even with
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the trump administration, of just recently
they passed thirty five million dollars to go
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into actual victim resources. There's been
a lot of money raced in the name
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of human trafficking, but it would
shock you how little of that actually ends
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up being direct services or bed space. Yeah, for survive of it.
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So the money that just came through, I mean we didn't see any of
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it. There was only one agency
in North Carolina and one in South Carolina
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that received, you know, that
funding, which is which is great.
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I mean it's excellent, sure,
and that will go fast, unfortunately.
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Yeah, but I was still just
encouraged to see that momentum that, hey,
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even at the federal level, some
some money is being loosened up to
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specifically target getting resources for for individuals
that have been caught up in human traffion,
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because it should be a top priority. I mean the fact that it's
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going on. We were talking before
the podcast, you know. I mean
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slavery was abolished a long time ago
in our country. This is a form
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of modern day slavery and we should
be coming at it really hard and really
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swift. But for too long we've
we've basically just been kind of dancing around
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the issue and sometimes I feel that
we're more concerned about the risk of acting
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versus the risk of not acting.
Yeah, and it really that's been something
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that's bug me for a long time. But it's a true pandemic. I
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mean we have a serious problem going
on right now. Yeah, and so
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we know it's there, we know
it's happening and we know that it's certainly
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these women are being brought to the
abortion center. We know that and in
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fact we have seen what we have
suspected sometimes. But maybe could you speak
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a little bit about what to look
for, because I know you probably would
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notice things that we might not.
Yeah, I mean I can tell you
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know, at least you guys are. You are pretty sharp. So I
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yeah, I'd probably pick up a
most of it. But and if you
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want to check it out, the
National Resource Center, also called Pilarish Project,
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on their website they do have a
list of recognizing the signs. If
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you can probably some fifty, fifty
things to look for. You will put
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a link for that actually in the
description of this podcast. Sure, those
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who are listening can can go to
that website, but some of the big
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ones would be, you know,
and again it's you know, most women
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that are being brought to an abortion
clinic. I mean they there's a lot
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of shame, there's a lot of
emotion going on, so that could be
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confused to look like something that it's
not necessarily. Yeah, so I would
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then zoom out a little bit and
say, okay, anytime there's maybe a
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male bringing a female in that they
don't look like they'd be in a typical
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relationship. You know, that should
be somewhat of red flag. Like a
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much older man with a much younger
exact person might be one example exactly.
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You can kind of in your own
you know, assessment going on that yeah,
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it looks that's got right. And
then, certainly, as we discussed,
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you know, if if there was
multiple women, yeah, that one
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guy or one individual was bringing in
and we could be a woman to I
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mean there are female traffickers. It
could be a woman bringing three other women
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in and that that's just bizarre.
I mean it's it'd be a crazy scene.
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The individual, the victim, oftentimes
doesn't really have control over their own
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documentation, over their own money.
Sometimes they're a little fuzzy on where they're
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at and you know where they're going. And if sometimes you have opportunity to
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kind of engage in a conversation level, often times you don't, but if
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there is that opportunity, you can
pick up on that really quickly. Just
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the victim often times won't have a
lot of context that you'd have with a
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regular Orson you're meeting on the street. Let me ask you, because it
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occurred to me as you were speaking
because we're in in the instant. I
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was telling you earlier on that that
we did see before we started the podcast,
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where we did see a man bring
for victims, well, what we
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thought were for victims. They it
was the middle of summer and they were
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all wearing long sleeves and we found
that odd and we wondered. We were
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wondering where they being, where they
drugged, where they using drugs? Is
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that a form of control in in
sex trafficking, and so would even something
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like that, long sleeves in the
middle of a hot North Carolina summer?
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Yeah, that's that's good observation.
Yeah, absolutely, drug use is definitely
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common within sex trafficking. At that's
not every case. I've been actually shocked
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by how many cases that there wasn't
drug use involved. Oftentimes, depending on
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this type of trafficker, it can
be utilized or not, and then sometimes
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it's something they use count towards the
end, if you will, to keep
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someone compliant. But but yeah,
know that the long sleeves could have been
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used to cover that. There also
could have been significant tattoos or branding that
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have been easily identifiable and then that
could be used to cover that as well.
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But yeah, I the big things
to look out for with potential victim
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is kind of their demeanor, how
they're carrying themselves. Again, walking into
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abortion clinic gets tough because they're probably
already feeling all kind of emotion. But
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that on the street. That's what
we would look for is is the way
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they're carrying themselves, that they won't
make eye contact, if they won't speak
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on their own behalf and someone speaks
for them, things of that nature,
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and then not having a lot of
context on you know, where they're from
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or what they do or how they
get here, how long they stay in
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you know, things the best of
US could answer easily. Right, if
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you're being controlled by another person,
you may not have quick answers or you're
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giving scripted answers. Right. Sometimes
we're just watching them and we're not going
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to have an interaction. But are
there things that we could be watching coming
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from the trafficer? That his interaction. I'm assuming to say him. I
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know certimes it might be a woman, but I'll say him just to make
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it easy. So his interactions with
the women. Are there things that are
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kind of tipoffs? Yeah, I
mean just that that presence of control.
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I mean is the big one.
I mean, traffickers will confuse you,
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that they will. I mean they're
they're they're manipulators. So I mean then
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one sense they may try to be
loving on them and, you know,
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all caring and another minute really really
harsh. It's all over the place,
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but in general you're looking for overall
theme of this person seems to be controlling
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this other person and there seems to
be a real in submissive situation or a
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fear of that that person. Yeah, so I don't ask this question to
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kind of get into like a cultural
profiling or anything like that, but is
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it the case that many of the
women that are being trafficked are from out
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of the country? You know,
that's so they might not exactly speak English,
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they might have an accent. Is
that another thing that can kind of
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be a common denominator there that we
could pick up on? Let's say we
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see some of those signs that you're
talking about, included with the fact that
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this person didn't even speak the language. Absolutely not. If someone didn't speak
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English that you know, and they're
again still it appears that they're being controlled.
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This isn't a person that's caring for
them and translating and being kind.
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They're being harsh. That would be
a big red flag. For our experience,
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it's actually really surprised me. The
high majority of our clients have actually
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been US citizens. It is blown
my mind. When we got into this
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I assumed it probably be fifty,
you know, fifty percent US citizen,
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fifty percent for national. The high
majority has actually been US citizens. Wow,
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and and a lot of the trafficking
has been. There's different kinds of
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pimp. There's kind of the Romeo
Pimp, which is a small time operator,
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basically acting like he's in a relationship. It looks similar domestic violence but
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martialized, and there's the guerrilla pimp, which is heavily violent and and things
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like that, and then there's kind
of the CEO pimp, which may be
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the one that you know is kind
of presenting a fake business and that's how
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he goes after people and he has
them convinced their own track for some kind
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of career, you know. And
so there's there's a variety of more styles
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of it, but what we see
very often is kind of what we called
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the Romeo Pimp, and that's where, at least initially, the young lady
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felt like she was in a relationship
with this person. Yea. And Yeah,
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she's having to go through some some
crazy things, but she's in her
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mind justified that it's going to the
end result, it's going to be there,
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eventually going to be together. Yea, this is just part of them
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getting the money they need to move
on with life and things like that.
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I've heard that story time and time
again. Yeah, where it was more
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comparable to what the young lady saw
is like a relationship, until one day
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she just kind of saw that enough
is enough, or the abuse got so
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bad she had true concern for her
life that I may not survive the week.
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And then another big indicator why people
call the hot line is they got
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pregnant and they they maybe will endure
this for themselves because after all the trauma
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and abuse, they don't. They
don't always. They get kind of paralyzed,
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they don't know what to do.
Yeah, but then once, once
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they find out they're pregnant, there
that innate maternal instinct is enough to say
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I can't have this for my child. I got to get out of here.
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And so we've gotten many a calls
when it's not just hey, come
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get me it's hey, come get
me. Also, I'm pregnant and I
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need help quick right, right.
That's very common. I have so many
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questions for you. I I know
of and I can't give the specifics on
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this, but I do know of
definitely a sex trafficking whole thing going on,
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sure, but the woman is terrified, terrified for her life. She
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in the end decided not to pursue
it. At first she was going to
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pursue it, then decided not to. So I know things that are just
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so revolting and and so awful and
I am not allowed for fear of harming
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her. What do we do and
how do we report what we see,
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especially if they're and maybe you could
address that also, if the victim is
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not willing to report? It's a
tough one. I mean that is one
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of our biggest struggles. Again,
you know, to be really clear,
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we're a victim advocate organization. We're
not we're not an investigative agency. You
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know, we partner with law enforcement, but we leave their job to be
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their job. In our job is
our job. We collaborate with them wherever
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possible, but one of the biggest
issues law enforcement runs into, and I
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think when that we run into as
well is when the victim wants help but
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isn't ready for help, right,
and that's a thin line, right.
349
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Yeah, you have some people that
we could say you need help, but
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they don't think they need it and
they're very tough to assist because they think
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it's fine or they haven't hit rock
bottom for them yet, or or whatever
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it is. But the person that
legitimately wants help, they would legitimately one
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out. But the fear of the
unknown is somehow more terrifying than the trauma
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that they're living in right now.
Yeah, and and the fear that they're
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going to be killed. Exactly.
Yeah, the fear of that or the
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fear that if I try to run, then my perpetrator wilcome after me and
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then he really will kill me.
Right now he's just beating me, but
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if I, if I try to
escape them unsuccessful, then the fear of,
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you know, potentially being killed is
a big one. And then there's
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other manipulation tactics like well, if
you run away, I'll go after you,
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know, your loved ones, you
know, it's like that. That's
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pretty common. But yes, for
for us that that is a big challenge
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and really what we need is when
the victim is ready for help, whether
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through a law enforcement referral or they
call us directly or another NGO like yourselves
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as connected and they said you're calling
on behalf and you know you're in communications.
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You're saying, I want to help, I'm ready to get out.
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Well, we kind of need that
invitation so we can provide services and help
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them, help them get out.
If the person's not ready, then we
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can't force them into it. and
You you're probably running into the same thing
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and I think the main thing to
do there is just have that consistent outreach
371
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and just let them know help is
here when you're ready and then if there
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are opportunities for conversation, which there
rarely is. I mean it's not like
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we can go get in a coffee
shop and talk about your exit plan.
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All this is being done in the
margin. I mean this is being done
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in thin spaces of like hey,
I had this moment to connect or I
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had this moment to send you this
message or communicate this through a third party,
377
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helping get word that like help is
available. But then if there's a
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lot of nerves, that can be
a tough thing to navigate. So I
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think the main thing we can do
is obviously just be available, be consistent
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and pray for them that they would
they would attempt to exit. Yeah,
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on the second note, you know, I would highly encourage people, as
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with law enforcement, when you see
an active crime going on, are you
383
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say hey, this looks like trafficking. I definitely think this is, and
384
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it's happening in real time and there's
actionable things that can be done. One
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hundred percent, you know, call
enforcement right then and there and say,
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Hey, I have reason to believe
this is happening. The big challenge is
387
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there. Is it so rare that
you you run into a live, real
388
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situation where you could report it and
it could be acted on in that window,
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because police need that burden to proof. Yeah, the and then the
390
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other challenge will run into, even
if all that happens, is again,
391
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if the victim isn't ready for help. Yeah, they're going to be more
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scared of their perpetrator than they are
the law enforcement and they may feed law
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enforcement a bunch of lines and and
then basically they'd have to be well,
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you're free to go, I guess. Yeah, everything in a way.
395
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It is highly complicated, right,
and trying to engage well, in this
396
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specific situation. It I guess they
could say it was here, say it
397
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was what she told me right month, but it was so horrific and she
398
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would not report it and I wondered, what's there any way I could anonymously
399
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reported and how while protecting her?
And I didn't know what to do.
400
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So I did nothing. Well,
and and those situations, you know,
401
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if there was a way to get
if you had another engagement with her,
402
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like when we do outreach weet we
hand out our local hotline number, because
403
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what we're hoping for is, even
if they're not ready right now, then
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on when they're ready or they filled
that, there's a safe window and then
405
00:25:56.549 --> 00:25:59.990
they can call us and in that
sense they can then serve them and get
406
00:26:00.069 --> 00:26:03.069
them out, because many of them
in this lifestyle have been forced to do
407
00:26:03.619 --> 00:26:07.740
the legal activity or there's a there's
a fear of police or whatever it is.
408
00:26:07.019 --> 00:26:11.579
So we can be an alternative,
because we're not kicking indoors or anything
409
00:26:11.619 --> 00:26:15.380
like that. We're literally kind of
a specialized taxi service for people wanted to
410
00:26:15.420 --> 00:26:18.609
exit this and we can do that
as a victim atick an agency. So
411
00:26:18.970 --> 00:26:22.130
they don't they can just they can
just exit. And many victims I've worked
412
00:26:22.170 --> 00:26:26.529
with it is shocked me when kind
of you step back and zoom mount and
413
00:26:26.529 --> 00:26:30.970
you're going, wow, you didn't
leave because you sit didn't have the simple
414
00:26:32.650 --> 00:26:37.960
resources to get away. So if
you'd had even a few hundred dollars to
415
00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:41.599
hire transport and immediate lodging, you
maybe could have even done this yourself.
416
00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:45.559
But you didn't even have that.
You didn't have you barely had clothes on
417
00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:49.150
your back. So that level of
lack of resources can keep someone very trapped.
418
00:26:49.190 --> 00:26:52.910
Yeah, and and yeah. So
for us, getting the hot line
419
00:26:52.910 --> 00:26:57.230
out to the right people is critical
and then having our opportunity to respond to
420
00:26:57.309 --> 00:27:00.619
a situation we've been invited to.
And then, yeah, for other live
421
00:27:00.700 --> 00:27:04.539
action situations that are happening in a
public setting, one hundred percent get the
422
00:27:04.579 --> 00:27:10.859
police in there and it's always appropriate
to take information nonetheless and still called the
423
00:27:11.220 --> 00:27:14.299
non emergency number, whoever, and
just passing that on to law enforcement,
424
00:27:14.380 --> 00:27:18.170
because you never, we never can
assume what active investigations they have going on.
425
00:27:18.369 --> 00:27:22.450
Yeah, and and that information from
the community maybe just enough, yeah,
426
00:27:22.529 --> 00:27:25.369
to take things to the next level. So it's it's you know,
427
00:27:25.490 --> 00:27:27.250
if police are saying hey, I'm
good. I mean they're going to communicate
428
00:27:27.329 --> 00:27:30.839
that to you if they feel like
hey, this really isn't helpful. But
429
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:33.519
I mean, otherwise I'd basically try
to pass on information when I have it
430
00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:37.240
and let them decide if it's useful. Yeah, yeah, so practically in
431
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:41.160
front of an abortion center where we're
going to see, presumably the trafficker and
432
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:45.750
then the victims. And if we
strongly suspected and we did call the police,
433
00:27:45.869 --> 00:27:51.829
I know in our podcast on domestic
violence that that can really endanger the
434
00:27:51.910 --> 00:27:56.190
woman because she's going to be punished. So can you talk about that at
435
00:27:56.230 --> 00:28:00.259
all? It's it's that effort an
issue that the trafficker will then beat the
436
00:28:00.339 --> 00:28:04.619
woman afterwards or whatever. Because,
yeah, so, well, guess what
437
00:28:04.700 --> 00:28:07.980
you're saying, some kind of like
the rules of engagement stuff. Yeah,
438
00:28:08.380 --> 00:28:12.329
okay's and don'ts. If we see
this right, you're saying, of course,
439
00:28:12.490 --> 00:28:15.329
call law enforcement and then, of
course, if you're able to get
440
00:28:15.690 --> 00:28:19.609
the hot line into their hands,
get that into their hands. But as
441
00:28:19.650 --> 00:28:22.009
far as our interactions with that woman, what are some of the things that
442
00:28:22.089 --> 00:28:25.130
we should have got it? I
got. Yeah, no, that's a
443
00:28:25.210 --> 00:28:29.599
really delicate one and and and to
some degree most places I speak. I'd
444
00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:32.559
price. I don't, you don't. I would encourage people not to engage,
445
00:28:32.599 --> 00:28:37.000
for y'all, you're not your average
street outreach individuals, volunteers. So
446
00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:41.359
I wouldn't try to define what to
do or not to do. I'd really
447
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:45.230
leave that up to individuals and to
where how the holy spirits moving them.
448
00:28:45.430 --> 00:28:48.430
And I'm not going to say dows
or don't because, hey, there's no
449
00:28:48.789 --> 00:28:51.789
exact playbook for some of the stuff. But I am glad to hear the
450
00:28:51.910 --> 00:28:56.380
cock. Our cognisant of some outreach
can put victims at risk and that's why
451
00:28:56.500 --> 00:29:00.579
when we do ours, we try
to be very clandestine about it, because
452
00:29:00.380 --> 00:29:03.380
what you don't want to do,
we like a matter of fact, good
453
00:29:03.420 --> 00:29:06.619
example, we used to do street
outreach. We used to like literally go
454
00:29:06.900 --> 00:29:10.130
out to where girls were walking,
you know, the track, and engage
455
00:29:10.130 --> 00:29:11.170
them on the street and just,
you know, hand them a card.
456
00:29:11.250 --> 00:29:14.569
You know, hey if you want
to help. But but we saw that
457
00:29:14.849 --> 00:29:18.849
there's actually some risk there of the
trafficker who's two hundred yards away and an
458
00:29:18.890 --> 00:29:22.250
Asu v than saying what was that
about? You know, would you tell
459
00:29:22.289 --> 00:29:26.039
them, you know, unnecessarily bothering
her and then even at Thomas we were
460
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:27.480
like, okay, well, we
could discreetly hand it to her while driving
461
00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:30.519
by, you know. But we
just got to a point where it wasn't
462
00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:36.160
very effective, like we almost never
had anyone leave right then and we had
463
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:40.349
other other effective measures that that seem
to be a lot more productive. I
464
00:29:40.390 --> 00:29:41.750
won't go into what those are,
but, but, but that seemed to
465
00:29:41.789 --> 00:29:45.589
have been working better. So we
kind of backed off from street outreach specifically,
466
00:29:45.630 --> 00:29:51.309
yeah, because it was the bigger
risk with less response. Yeah,
467
00:29:52.190 --> 00:29:55.900
so same, same type thing.
I would whatever that looks like, you
468
00:29:56.019 --> 00:29:57.220
know, for you guys or for
other are groups that are may be listening,
469
00:29:57.740 --> 00:30:02.299
keep that in mind the way in
which you engage, assume you're being
470
00:30:02.380 --> 00:30:06.180
watched and try to do not do
things that could put more pressure on her,
471
00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:10.009
and it could be as simple as
coming up with an excuse for your
472
00:30:10.049 --> 00:30:14.089
engagement other than providing services so that
she has something to report back. Oh,
473
00:30:14.130 --> 00:30:17.210
they they were just asking me if
I wanted to do adoption or what,
474
00:30:17.289 --> 00:30:18.849
you know, whatever it is,
and just only talk about that,
475
00:30:19.009 --> 00:30:23.880
you know. But it's it is
a challenge because we have it has to
476
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:26.480
be some level, you know,
of engagement. We can't just say,
477
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:30.279
well, I hope they google this
one day, yeah, which, fortunately
478
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:33.319
they might. You know I mean, I know you'll have seen that.
479
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:37.710
I mean search engine optimizations a positive
thing in this modern context, absolutely so
480
00:30:37.789 --> 00:30:40.670
that people with they have that moment
to do a quick look online. We
481
00:30:40.750 --> 00:30:44.630
want to be up high where they
could, they could find us. But
482
00:30:44.710 --> 00:30:48.069
it is a balance and and rules
of engagement. You know, in many
483
00:30:48.109 --> 00:30:49.740
ways the good news is we're in
America where we're free to talk to people,
484
00:30:49.900 --> 00:30:52.339
you know, and we don't have
to walk around fearful of it.
485
00:30:52.700 --> 00:30:56.180
So I would really think in context
that we just have to be careful that
486
00:30:56.259 --> 00:30:59.700
we're not putting someone in a bad
position. Right, yeah, right,
487
00:31:00.140 --> 00:31:06.609
because even offering the resources he's going
to perceive as a threat to his control
488
00:31:06.650 --> 00:31:10.250
over that woman because he was under
so have that abortion and not talk to
489
00:31:10.329 --> 00:31:14.450
people about housing or whatever. Oh, yes, and I'm sure you've experienced
490
00:31:14.450 --> 00:31:17.650
it. I'm sure you've had it
where you were doing street outreach and the
491
00:31:17.809 --> 00:31:21.000
man bringing the lady in tried to
intimidate you all. I mean, I'm
492
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:22.960
for you. I'm sure you've had
dozens of those cases. Like I'm tough
493
00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:26.359
and the reality is a right doesn't
work that well, because you're like,
494
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:29.400
I'm I'm not here for you,
Buddy. I'm praying for you, but
495
00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:33.230
I'm concerned about that baby, yeah, and her belly right now. Let's
496
00:31:33.230 --> 00:31:36.509
say best case scenario, we somehow
get that woman alone. She does,
497
00:31:36.630 --> 00:31:38.789
somehow he's gone away or whatever,
and we're able to talk with her.
498
00:31:38.869 --> 00:31:44.670
What are the resources that you offer? Sure, so we do our best
499
00:31:44.910 --> 00:31:49.700
to offer immediate shelter. Okay.
So we have a setup where we try
500
00:31:49.740 --> 00:31:55.619
to have a response time that is
literally within hours of Oh really, it's
501
00:31:55.660 --> 00:31:59.420
not always possible because, again,
we are recovering north and South Carolina.
502
00:31:59.500 --> 00:32:01.809
Okay, we're a small grass roots
team. Anyone out there listening to lists
503
00:32:01.849 --> 00:32:06.650
to help? We need your money
in really bad like we need the financial
504
00:32:06.769 --> 00:32:09.849
support. So, because we're very
much like a volunteer firefighter department that's covering
505
00:32:09.849 --> 00:32:15.880
a two state territory, right.
So I'm getting calls that are sometimes spreading
506
00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:19.359
you really thin. Yeah, and
you have existing clients that also need your
507
00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:22.519
help. So, with all that
said, when we get a hotline call,
508
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:27.400
our goal would be to be able
to get to that survivor within threehour
509
00:32:27.559 --> 00:32:30.150
window. You know, and then
and then get them set up with some
510
00:32:30.230 --> 00:32:32.829
immediate shelter and immediate resources to really
have that clean break. Yeah, you
511
00:32:32.950 --> 00:32:37.390
know, it's kind of like,
you know, when you're dealing with safe
512
00:32:37.430 --> 00:32:39.269
houses, you have to almost think
like a virologist, you know, and
513
00:32:39.829 --> 00:32:44.299
not cross contaminating. You have to
kind of a clean break from your active
514
00:32:44.299 --> 00:32:49.099
situation get you at a safe housing
situation that's separate and on its own to
515
00:32:49.180 --> 00:32:52.180
assess and be that emergency time period
until you can find the long term housing
516
00:32:52.420 --> 00:32:57.019
that we then transition them to,
because we don't just pick people up and
517
00:32:57.059 --> 00:32:59.809
I'll take them to the same house, because that would be crazy. Right
518
00:32:59.890 --> 00:33:02.009
now, if it's a setup or
it's fake, you just exposed a secure
519
00:33:02.130 --> 00:33:07.609
location. Yeah, so it's multifaceted
and how we do the immediate housing,
520
00:33:07.890 --> 00:33:10.089
but that's something we try to do. It a quick response. Honestly,
521
00:33:10.130 --> 00:33:15.240
during covid that's been a little more
complicated because of the the health issues there,
522
00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:21.319
and then even some of our housing
has been limited because they're like,
523
00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:23.240
oh, is this a quarantine situation? Are What is like no, no,
524
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:28.349
it's not. You know. So
it's complex but in general, on
525
00:33:28.430 --> 00:33:30.710
a regular all systems go, we
try to respond within hours of the call
526
00:33:31.029 --> 00:33:37.589
and get them immediate separation from the
situation and and immediate safety and basic resources.
527
00:33:37.829 --> 00:33:39.309
Yeah, and do you kind of
take over from there then? Also
528
00:33:39.349 --> 00:33:43.339
in terms of okay, they've been
in the sex trade now for a while,
529
00:33:43.460 --> 00:33:46.059
they need work. Oh, yeah, job and whatever. So it
530
00:33:46.819 --> 00:33:50.859
or some do you hand them off
to another agency or how does it work?
531
00:33:50.980 --> 00:33:54.019
So, yeah, I'll define it
this way. So basically have four
532
00:33:54.099 --> 00:33:58.329
areas. You have outreach, which
is just engaging the at risk population and
533
00:33:58.450 --> 00:34:00.730
which I would be a part of
in this. Then you have emergency housing,
534
00:34:00.849 --> 00:34:05.369
emergent care, and that can be
the first three days to the first
535
00:34:05.410 --> 00:34:07.329
three months. I mean we'll have
someone set up for sometimes three months before
536
00:34:07.329 --> 00:34:13.119
we transition them. If there's limited
availability. There's there's still only thousand plus
537
00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:15.719
bed space across the country for designated
for sex traffick. Yeah, it's a
538
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:19.440
drop in the bucket. So we
always have to get creative and outside of
539
00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:24.190
the specified sex trafficking bed space.
That's a common thing. So that's the
540
00:34:24.269 --> 00:34:29.510
emergent care and then what I call
program care is when you send them to
541
00:34:29.590 --> 00:34:34.309
a woman's home or a housing program. That could be up to twelve months
542
00:34:34.750 --> 00:34:37.110
is the idea, and there they're
getting more comprehensive care and going through some
543
00:34:37.150 --> 00:34:42.260
counseling and healing and then you kind
of graduate that and then transition to independent
544
00:34:42.340 --> 00:34:45.539
living. And then that's what I
call transitional care. So you have outreach,
545
00:34:45.699 --> 00:34:50.139
emergent care, program care, transitional
care and when we do a little
546
00:34:50.139 --> 00:34:52.929
bit of all of it. We
have one home for program care that stays
547
00:34:53.449 --> 00:34:57.530
fairly occupied. Yeah, right now
it's about three quarters full, but we
548
00:34:57.610 --> 00:35:00.250
work with groups all across the country
that they do have those kind of houses.
549
00:35:00.329 --> 00:35:04.849
Yeah, from West Coast to Texas
you know, to Caroline's all over.
550
00:35:05.050 --> 00:35:07.480
Yeah, and and unfortunately so many
of them do stay full. The
551
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:09.920
ones that are run well, they
stayed full. I mean the as Y'all
552
00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:13.800
know, there's a lot of need. So there is room to expand in
553
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:17.840
that topic especially. So where we
have focused a lot of our energy is
554
00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:21.510
on the emergent side. We found
you got to get them out first.
555
00:35:21.550 --> 00:35:23.949
If nothing else, helping them get
away and get safe and put them on
556
00:35:24.030 --> 00:35:28.230
our direction is better than nothing.
So we put a lot of energy there.
557
00:35:28.829 --> 00:35:30.630
We use our safe houls and then
we work with others across the country
558
00:35:30.670 --> 00:35:34.469
for long term care. And then
we also put a great deal of energy
559
00:35:34.550 --> 00:35:38.219
on the transitional because what so often
would happen is someone completes a program,
560
00:35:38.460 --> 00:35:42.980
they've been out for a year,
it's been going great, but they've also
561
00:35:43.019 --> 00:35:45.860
been living in this kind of not
real life situation because they're having all this
562
00:35:45.940 --> 00:35:50.289
support. Yeah, and no rent
and don't have a grocery bill or anything
563
00:35:50.329 --> 00:35:52.329
like that. Yeah, and then
all of a sudden you're supposed to be
564
00:35:52.409 --> 00:35:54.849
better now and just go make it, and so many can fall right back
565
00:35:54.849 --> 00:35:59.010
into this or something similar, and
we don't want that to happen. So
566
00:35:59.449 --> 00:36:02.610
we put a lot of our effort
on transitional care, and that's helping with
567
00:36:02.929 --> 00:36:07.559
rent assistance. Or your car broke
down and we're going to help you get
568
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:08.800
it back on the road because you
got to keep the car seat and keep
569
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:12.559
your job and get your kids the
child care and you know all those things.
570
00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:15.280
We do do what we can to
assist with work placement or at least
571
00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:20.909
completing education through a ged or community
college, and then we also assist with
572
00:36:21.070 --> 00:36:23.469
child care expenses as well, where
we can what we have budgeted. I
573
00:36:23.510 --> 00:36:27.710
mean, again, we're small budget
but we try to make those things a
574
00:36:27.829 --> 00:36:30.590
priority because the the individual who's a
year and a half out and just trying
575
00:36:30.590 --> 00:36:34.460
to get on their feet is just
as important and we don't want them to
576
00:36:34.579 --> 00:36:37.699
fall right back into it and be
someone who's going to call again because we
577
00:36:37.820 --> 00:36:40.380
didn't see it through. It's so
we do our best to do that.
578
00:36:40.659 --> 00:36:46.019
But that's another area where we can
invite the local church into it more.
579
00:36:46.019 --> 00:36:50.130
I mean we just see ourselves as
an arm of the church and a lot
580
00:36:50.170 --> 00:36:54.130
of our team are pastor's wives and
things like that. But but at that
581
00:36:54.329 --> 00:37:00.599
level of volunteerism is is a unique
opportunity for just the everyday volunteer who says
582
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:02.519
I want to help somehow. Will
Great. Maybe you could be kind of
583
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:07.559
a mentor for the other individual who
who just has some like life navigating questions
584
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.280
not so much. Helped me work
out my trauma questions, which you don't
585
00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:14.519
you don't need to need as much
training for that. So that that's that's
586
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:16.750
where we put our energies, on
the emergent and on the transitional. But
587
00:37:17.070 --> 00:37:20.949
even I mean right now the program
house we have, I mean it's costing
588
00:37:20.989 --> 00:37:23.309
us about eight thousand dollars a month
to run that. Wow. So if
589
00:37:23.909 --> 00:37:28.230
anyone wants to help us and get
started. We're we actually had a donor
590
00:37:28.269 --> 00:37:30.900
that was supporting that. They won't
be able to continue with that. So
591
00:37:30.019 --> 00:37:34.980
we're now fundraising for that, specifically
in trying to get a recurring eight thousand
592
00:37:34.980 --> 00:37:37.460
a month to keep the safe house
fully funded and its own thing and and
593
00:37:38.219 --> 00:37:43.219
keep that running smooth. Are Those
women that are just in the Charlotte area?
594
00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:45.170
Are you drawing women from all over, all over country, fall over
595
00:37:45.250 --> 00:37:50.130
that safe housing corre? Yeah,
all over the yeah, wow. Yeah,
596
00:37:50.170 --> 00:37:52.969
it's interesting in that sense. And
and so many of the clients we
597
00:37:52.050 --> 00:37:55.449
do serve in the Charlotte area in
end up going out of state. We
598
00:37:55.530 --> 00:37:58.800
had many, many that want I
just they want to get away, which
599
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:00.599
makes sense. And Yeah, it's
not a bad plan. And once,
600
00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:04.800
once that does happen. To answer
your earlier question, there is kind of
601
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:07.559
a passing of the baton. At
that point. We've done our peace and
602
00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:10.239
once we place them with a group
in Arizona for now our jobs done,
603
00:38:10.280 --> 00:38:14.429
unless they need to call us back. Right. Yeah, how how often
604
00:38:14.510 --> 00:38:19.190
do they just return to the same
lifestyle or once? The success rate,
605
00:38:19.230 --> 00:38:22.110
I guess, of the yeah,
of once you get them out of the
606
00:38:22.230 --> 00:38:24.429
situation, do most of them make
it. I don't have the active numbers.
607
00:38:25.150 --> 00:38:29.900
In the earlier years I was able
to track it a little more and
608
00:38:30.139 --> 00:38:35.260
I felt like it was thirty five
forty percent would fall back into Instana,
609
00:38:35.300 --> 00:38:38.059
collect into it, okay, or
fall back into some kind of exploitive context.
610
00:38:38.380 --> 00:38:43.809
But one positive is we'd have many
of them call us again. Yeah,
611
00:38:43.889 --> 00:38:46.449
and then there was an opportunity to
to serve that individual second time in.
612
00:38:46.889 --> 00:38:50.210
And you know, we're the doors
are open if you want help,
613
00:38:50.409 --> 00:38:53.690
and it's not. Obviously you adapt
it each time because you know we don't
614
00:38:53.690 --> 00:38:57.360
want to enable or anything. But
but yeah, certainly you made a mistake,
615
00:38:57.519 --> 00:38:59.559
don't we all? That's that's what
it's supposed to look like. We
616
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:01.679
were supposed to be there for him. So earlier on it was. That's
617
00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:06.639
the numbers I were seeing. Right
now, I honestly don't have clear numbers
618
00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:10.789
because so many of the victims in
recent years we've served, we have helped
619
00:39:10.829 --> 00:39:15.389
them to the next phase and then
our job was done. And if they
620
00:39:15.429 --> 00:39:17.389
change phone numbers six months later,
I have no way of engaging them,
621
00:39:17.710 --> 00:39:22.030
and so I really don't know.
You know, and then that's okay.
622
00:39:22.110 --> 00:39:24.699
You know, it's not I mean
we're the stance of call us if you
623
00:39:24.739 --> 00:39:28.860
need us kind of thing. But
just because I haven't heard from somebody doesn't
624
00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:31.139
mean I assume they fallen back into
it. So I don't know that it's
625
00:39:31.179 --> 00:39:35.300
I'm really hoping it's not that high
as it seemed in the earlier years.
626
00:39:37.059 --> 00:39:40.130
So and the other benefit we're dealing
with is there more houses than there used
627
00:39:40.130 --> 00:39:45.969
to be a back when I started, I think there was only six hundred
628
00:39:45.010 --> 00:39:50.489
beds nationwide for trafficking. No,
no, I'd take that back. In
629
00:39:50.570 --> 00:39:53.760
two thousand and ten there was only
one hundred beds nationwide designated for sex trafficking
630
00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:58.239
survivors. And around two thousand and
fourteen, which is when I was reflecting
631
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:00.880
on the is at forty percent.
You know, I it was I think
632
00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:05.719
there was around six hundred and now
probably closer to a thousand. Are More,
633
00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:07.389
you know, I you lose track
because Agen she's come up and go
634
00:40:07.510 --> 00:40:12.349
on to every day. But we're
in a much better position, you know,
635
00:40:12.429 --> 00:40:15.550
then we were ten years ago at
is as a country when it comes
636
00:40:15.590 --> 00:40:20.190
to resources. Yeah, what are
we looking at as far as statistically,
637
00:40:20.389 --> 00:40:22.940
nationally, how many of these?
I mean, I know it's hard to
638
00:40:23.059 --> 00:40:27.260
gaze. Sure, sure, sort
of these shot in the dark estimates,
639
00:40:27.340 --> 00:40:30.619
but what are the estimates of how
many women are trafficked every year? Yeah,
640
00:40:30.659 --> 00:40:35.769
and and all of that. Yeah, it's I mean hundreds of thousands.
641
00:40:35.849 --> 00:40:38.650
I mean I can say that.
I wouldn't try to speculate on numbers.
642
00:40:39.050 --> 00:40:45.090
And internationally it's we're talking thirty to
forty million, right, you know,
643
00:40:45.289 --> 00:40:49.610
type thing people called in human trafficking. In terms of state side,
644
00:40:49.650 --> 00:40:52.039
even back in two thousand and ten, when I was starting, the State
645
00:40:52.159 --> 00:41:00.760
Department said there was risk of one
hundred to three hundred thousand children being trafficked
646
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:04.469
in the US every year. Wow, so that was ten years ago and
647
00:41:04.550 --> 00:41:07.429
they were had a hundred to three
hundred thousand estimate annually. Yeah, so
648
00:41:07.510 --> 00:41:12.190
I was like wow, that's crazy
and that's just kids. So we can
649
00:41:12.230 --> 00:41:14.989
assume it's actually probably higher than that. And we can assume as it relates
650
00:41:14.989 --> 00:41:19.980
to adults and and every demographic,
you're dealing with hundreds of thousands of people.
651
00:41:20.300 --> 00:41:22.340
The other thing we have going on
to your point earlier, the most
652
00:41:22.380 --> 00:41:25.619
of our clients are US citizens.
We do have some that are foreign national
653
00:41:25.980 --> 00:41:30.780
and I've done some work down to
the border doing trafficking assessments. I briefly
654
00:41:30.940 --> 00:41:35.489
was was contracting with Samaritans first last
summer just to assist with some some trafficking
655
00:41:35.489 --> 00:41:39.769
assessments down there. And and man, we we we have a huge risk
656
00:41:40.250 --> 00:41:44.769
of people that are even coming through
and have their court date and things like
657
00:41:44.849 --> 00:41:46.639
that, that are that are have
been tagged, that there's still such a
658
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:52.639
potential risk of them being exploded just
due to basic vulnerabilities of yeah, I
659
00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:54.920
know the language. I can't work
right now. I'm kind of dependent on
660
00:41:55.039 --> 00:42:00.599
my sponsor. Even those that assists
are seeking asylum and were granted temporary asylum,
661
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:02.909
like, even those are at risk, much less those that have gotten
662
00:42:02.949 --> 00:42:06.989
in and are not documented at all. I mean, so certainly they're not
663
00:42:07.070 --> 00:42:09.630
calling the police or anything if someone
finds them and decides to exploit them.
664
00:42:10.070 --> 00:42:15.579
So you have, you have a
lot of potential risk of foreign nationals being
665
00:42:15.699 --> 00:42:20.940
trafficked through the the cartel's just just
doing it to an organized crime sense,
666
00:42:21.219 --> 00:42:23.340
or even those that have made their
way here, you know, whether they're,
667
00:42:23.659 --> 00:42:27.820
you know, having asylum or not, they're still a potentially at rest
668
00:42:27.860 --> 00:42:30.610
for being manipulated. Yeah, and
and that's that. That is just a
669
00:42:30.889 --> 00:42:37.050
administrative item that would be so tough
to try to analyze and get a handle
670
00:42:37.130 --> 00:42:39.530
on, like how big is that
possibly? So I think a lot of
671
00:42:39.610 --> 00:42:44.400
that's even further underground. But it
again, I mean, I think again.
672
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:47.519
My main message is it's it's way
bigger than people think, and I
673
00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:52.920
think sometimes it surprises me occasionally on
social media or whatnot. Is like when
674
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:54.840
you hear about a case and people
are like, well, I can't believe
675
00:42:54.880 --> 00:42:58.710
this, and I'm like yeah,
that's terrible, but guys, it's way
676
00:42:58.789 --> 00:43:00.389
bigger than that, you know,
and just like having an every day.
677
00:43:00.469 --> 00:43:06.070
Now one situation here's going missing daily
and you're just dealing with massive numbers of
678
00:43:06.190 --> 00:43:09.309
people that otherwise you wouldn't really be
aware of it. Yeah, I know
679
00:43:09.510 --> 00:43:14.619
some folks, at least that I
see on social media is almost like this
680
00:43:14.739 --> 00:43:17.139
is a conspiracy theory. Yeah,
it's really not happening. You people are
681
00:43:17.179 --> 00:43:22.179
saying it's happening, but the real
numbers are there, you can really find
682
00:43:22.219 --> 00:43:25.739
out this is. This is not
just some conspiracy that it's happening. It's
683
00:43:25.820 --> 00:43:30.050
conspiracy for sure, but it's not
just a conspiracy theory. Yeah, it's
684
00:43:30.090 --> 00:43:34.210
happening. You know, people are
being exploited, children are being exploited and,
685
00:43:34.769 --> 00:43:38.409
from what you're saying, abortion,
as far as the way these issues
686
00:43:38.530 --> 00:43:44.079
tied together, is used as a
cover up. Yeah, a manipulation device
687
00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:47.440
and other things that we really need
to be on the lookout for. Those
688
00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:51.719
your minister in front of an abortion
center. Absolutely. Yeah, and I
689
00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:53.960
think for the listeners I would throw
something out that may help provide some context.
690
00:43:54.079 --> 00:44:00.070
I think very often it's easy to
say we have to have a mindset
691
00:44:00.150 --> 00:44:02.349
shift, you know, and well, what is what a sex trafficking look
692
00:44:02.389 --> 00:44:06.469
like? Because it's it's easy to
even drive down a sugar creek or wherever
693
00:44:06.510 --> 00:44:09.300
and say, all that's just some
my prostitute. You know, maybe,
694
00:44:10.139 --> 00:44:14.420
and it might be. However,
there's a lot of things that could look
695
00:44:14.420 --> 00:44:16.739
like prostitution or look like you're working
for yourself, where you're actually not.
696
00:44:17.059 --> 00:44:20.820
Yeah, a lot of the individuals
we've served, a lot of the young
697
00:44:20.860 --> 00:44:22.940
ladies we've assisted, if you just
met him on the street or at an
698
00:44:23.019 --> 00:44:27.090
eleven or whatever you may be,
wouldn't a thought much of it. Yeah,
699
00:44:27.170 --> 00:44:29.530
and even if you to your point, if you'd ask them directly,
700
00:44:29.570 --> 00:44:30.449
that may say no, I'm fine, get out of my face and cut
701
00:44:30.489 --> 00:44:34.809
you out a little bitute. So
it's we have this image of like some
702
00:44:34.969 --> 00:44:37.050
twelve year old Asian, you know, girl in a cage somewhere, and
703
00:44:37.090 --> 00:44:40.360
that's human trafficking and it and it
is right and that that is that is
704
00:44:40.360 --> 00:44:45.559
very real and very massive concern and
that's that's part of it. But it
705
00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:49.079
also can kind of be right under
your nose. Yeah, and we could
706
00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:51.679
even see it and write it off
as and why want they get their act
707
00:44:51.719 --> 00:44:53.670
together, right? We don't know
that there actually is a pimp that is
708
00:44:53.750 --> 00:44:58.789
controlling them and unfortunately she actually sees
him as Kinind of a boyfriend. So
709
00:44:58.989 --> 00:45:02.510
it's really messy. Yeah, but
nonetheless he's having her sleep with multiple people
710
00:45:02.550 --> 00:45:07.300
to night and he's keeping the money
right like. So that is sex trafficking
711
00:45:07.579 --> 00:45:12.019
and it's so I think sometimes the
reason we are shocked by the numbers is
712
00:45:12.659 --> 00:45:15.019
we aren't including that. There's a
lot of those cases that may not look
713
00:45:15.019 --> 00:45:19.019
like what in our mind it would
look like, but it actually is playing
714
00:45:19.059 --> 00:45:22.769
out. Are there may be some
questions that we could ask if we do
715
00:45:22.010 --> 00:45:27.449
happen to get them alone, that
would reveal to us what's going on.
716
00:45:28.130 --> 00:45:35.960
Maybe if they're hesitant at first,
to reveal it really obviously for me what
717
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:37.559
is what has been beneficial, because, I mean, here's the thing.
718
00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:42.480
In our modern twenty twenty context,
a stranger walking up and wanting to help,
719
00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:44.440
it's going to freak a lot of
people out. And, yeah,
720
00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:46.320
you know they're going to say,
what is your angle? Yeah, and
721
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:50.710
and and fair enough. I mean
I've had so many of our clients tell
722
00:45:50.710 --> 00:45:52.829
me and one time or another,
wow, you're the first man I've dealt
723
00:45:52.869 --> 00:45:57.949
with in years that didn't want anything
from me right now. And like even
724
00:45:58.030 --> 00:46:00.829
to the point where a new client
sometimes will say, say we get them
725
00:46:00.869 --> 00:46:04.269
set up with some stuff and bring
them groceries, and whenever they'll say,
726
00:46:04.340 --> 00:46:06.380
I'll find a way to pay you
back, and I go, let me
727
00:46:06.579 --> 00:46:09.539
clarify, like, there's no payback
here right. Yeah, you think us
728
00:46:09.780 --> 00:46:14.219
by getting getting better and get the
help that we're trying to offer. And
729
00:46:14.579 --> 00:46:17.849
but like even the idea that we
legitimately want to help and there's no strings
730
00:46:17.889 --> 00:46:22.570
attached. On the flip side,
I've often thought, how bad does your
731
00:46:22.610 --> 00:46:28.929
situation have to be when you're willing
to get into a van with strangers three
732
00:46:29.010 --> 00:46:30.409
am off the side of the road. Yeah, you got to say,
733
00:46:30.449 --> 00:46:34.599
anything's better than what I'm doing with
you know. I mean it's a gutsy
734
00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:37.400
move on their part. But so, yeah, to your point, I
735
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:40.199
think we have to go on with
the understanding that they're not going to assume
736
00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:45.480
there's no strings attached. They're also
going to assume you can't handle what I'm
737
00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:47.590
going through. And sometimes there's even
a testing period of like I'm going to
738
00:46:47.670 --> 00:46:51.349
cut you out, I'm going to
be difficult because I'm going to see if
739
00:46:51.389 --> 00:46:53.789
you're for real, if you really
just love me for me, or if
740
00:46:53.829 --> 00:46:57.789
you know you're trying to meet a
quota or you know, whatever it is.
741
00:46:58.190 --> 00:47:00.030
And and and that's that's kind of
the thing. It just just saying,
742
00:47:00.030 --> 00:47:02.699
Hey, we're just here to help, no strings attached. Test us
743
00:47:02.780 --> 00:47:06.139
on that. Yeah, I mean
it's like if try give me, give
744
00:47:06.139 --> 00:47:07.500
it a shot, you don't want
it. And I've even I've even had
745
00:47:07.539 --> 00:47:10.739
to clarify that with those that we
have helped in an emergency context remove and
746
00:47:10.780 --> 00:47:14.179
get them placed and get them set
up. I say, Hey, I
747
00:47:14.219 --> 00:47:15.769
would be really clear, like,
especially if they're over eighteen, I say
748
00:47:15.809 --> 00:47:19.210
you're not a prisoner here. If
it's some point you just want to go
749
00:47:19.489 --> 00:47:22.929
like you you can. The only
thing I'll ask is you can't tell anybody
750
00:47:22.929 --> 00:47:27.170
where this location is and you can't
in bite people over here. But you
751
00:47:27.289 --> 00:47:29.369
are not trapped. Now, if
you feel like you're about to go,
752
00:47:29.889 --> 00:47:32.400
please call us first and let us
help you on that journey. But you
753
00:47:32.599 --> 00:47:37.199
are not stuck. Everything we're offering
is free, and I know that sounds
754
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:38.920
crazy because nothing's free, right,
but but it is, you know,
755
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:43.079
and we just truly want to help
you. So I really almost helping them
756
00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:46.590
see that there's that they're not stuck, that, yeah, they have some
757
00:47:46.750 --> 00:47:50.590
power here, and I and that. That's the crazy shift. Can you
758
00:47:50.630 --> 00:47:52.429
imagine going from a situation for,
say, the past three years, you
759
00:47:52.469 --> 00:47:57.349
couldn't even decide what you ate or
when you ate right or when you slept
760
00:47:57.389 --> 00:48:04.099
right, and then now these random
church people in our saying hey, what
761
00:48:04.179 --> 00:48:07.059
do you what even taste for?
What can we pick you up? You
762
00:48:07.099 --> 00:48:08.219
know what says jeans, you are
you know. It was like, what
763
00:48:08.380 --> 00:48:12.219
are you talking about? It could
be a very far and like what?
764
00:48:12.460 --> 00:48:14.289
Who? WHOA? WHOA, Whoa, you know, what are you gonna
765
00:48:14.289 --> 00:48:15.289
make me? Do you know what? He's signing me up for. Nothing.
766
00:48:15.570 --> 00:48:20.690
We're just here to help and and
again. Wow, what a great
767
00:48:20.730 --> 00:48:22.929
context when they say, well,
why are you doing this? Right,
768
00:48:22.969 --> 00:48:24.489
well, that gives you the opportunity. I was just going to ask our
769
00:48:24.530 --> 00:48:27.639
do you do you share the gods? Yes, and a party. You
770
00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:29.880
get, you get. Didn't say. I'm so glad you asked. Right
771
00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:31.719
exactly. There's this Guy Jesus.
He's the son of God, the Savior
772
00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:35.719
of the world, and I loves
you and he's the one that said coming
773
00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:39.079
get you. So if you if
you don't like what we're offer and take
774
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:42.829
it up with him. It's like
but, but Jesus loves you and we
775
00:48:42.949 --> 00:48:45.110
love you, and this is a
way we can show our love towards Jesus
776
00:48:45.150 --> 00:48:46.510
by caring for you. Yeah,
and are you seeing people coming to the
777
00:48:46.590 --> 00:48:50.869
Lord too? We do. And
and you know what else is also fascinated
778
00:48:50.909 --> 00:48:55.260
me. How many have actually they
do. It may be kind of hidden
779
00:48:55.260 --> 00:48:59.699
under the debris, but like somebody
them even have some relationship with Christ.
780
00:48:59.699 --> 00:49:01.579
That's share did is they are.
Yeah, and then there's that opportunity to
781
00:49:01.860 --> 00:49:06.300
really just bring them, help them
come back to intimacy with the Lord.
782
00:49:06.300 --> 00:49:08.420
Yeah, it's it's not. Sometimes
it's a WHO's Jesus, but but a
783
00:49:08.500 --> 00:49:12.289
lot of times it's a yeah,
now I know he's out there and it's
784
00:49:12.289 --> 00:49:15.969
just then our opportunity as brothers and
sisters to then kind of just just lead
785
00:49:15.010 --> 00:49:17.889
them back to him and and then
then then it really makes sense. And
786
00:49:19.090 --> 00:49:22.130
then I think the other important thing
for groups like us to do is to
787
00:49:22.250 --> 00:49:24.599
see everything we're providing. Again,
it's not me. The different bes between
788
00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:29.119
the Good Samaritan and US is gets
mad and paid for it off his dial
789
00:49:29.519 --> 00:49:31.239
is in my money that this is
coming from the church and from donors,
790
00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:35.360
and this is coming from this is
ultimately all the Lords. I mean we
791
00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:38.909
all know it's all the Lords and
we're just trying to take resources and put
792
00:49:38.949 --> 00:49:43.750
it into those that have need.
But now that that is the funniest thing.
793
00:49:43.789 --> 00:49:45.469
In fact, when I've when I've
had secular groups try to have us
794
00:49:45.510 --> 00:49:49.110
in a gatcha moment. So you're
just trying to prosplitize. You try to
795
00:49:49.110 --> 00:49:52.670
do this, I'm going actually,
we're just registered as a charity, but
796
00:49:52.789 --> 00:49:54.900
I say the reality is, would
that be so bad? But but secondly,
797
00:49:55.059 --> 00:50:00.340
even still almost, I mean ninety
nine percent of the time it's the
798
00:50:00.420 --> 00:50:04.820
survivors that bring up anything about spirituality
or why we're here, even before we
799
00:50:05.179 --> 00:50:07.889
need to, because it does come
to mind. Why are you here?
800
00:50:07.010 --> 00:50:10.969
What is prompting this action? Well, Jesus Christ, that that's why we're
801
00:50:10.969 --> 00:50:15.289
here. Yeah, he mad.
Well, mark, we're going to wrap
802
00:50:15.369 --> 00:50:16.610
this thing up and just a minute, man, but I really appreciate you
803
00:50:16.690 --> 00:50:22.159
coming on and the thing talking about
all this. But before we wrap this
804
00:50:22.239 --> 00:50:25.119
up, is there a story or
something you can share just in a situation
805
00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:30.039
you've been involved in or justice ministries
has been involved in that would encourage folks?
806
00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:34.079
Sure, yeah, man, there's
there's so many. So yeah,
807
00:50:34.119 --> 00:50:38.469
I have one in mind and she's
got she's got some some children and is
808
00:50:38.550 --> 00:50:44.469
doing well now, but she just
recently reached out and she's been out a
809
00:50:44.630 --> 00:50:49.190
long time. She's doing fine,
but you know, she was just saying,
810
00:50:49.230 --> 00:50:52.579
Hey, is there, is there
anything I can do to help what's
811
00:50:52.579 --> 00:50:55.659
going on and help support the ministry, and she even offered to like do
812
00:50:55.780 --> 00:50:59.900
some paintings and then things like that
to see if like there's something you could
813
00:50:59.900 --> 00:51:00.780
auction off or whatever, which was
hey, if you want to do that,
814
00:51:00.860 --> 00:51:05.769
that's amazing. It's super kind.
But just seeing that healing that does
815
00:51:05.889 --> 00:51:10.809
take place, that in the support
that is able to be provided that's able
816
00:51:10.889 --> 00:51:15.250
to help her not be in a
place of necessarily survival mode years out.
817
00:51:15.489 --> 00:51:20.000
Yeah, but like because of that
continued transitional care, she's at a place
818
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:23.079
where where her mindsets going to how
can I help that the next generation?
819
00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:27.559
How can I be there for the
other girls? And she's going I'm kind
820
00:51:27.559 --> 00:51:29.679
of stay at home mom. I
don't have a lot I can do right
821
00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:31.239
now. But like, can I
draw them? Can I draw pictures?
822
00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:34.789
Got To do a craft, got
to do anything that would be be useful
823
00:51:35.190 --> 00:51:38.989
and and I that's really an encouragement
to me to see that it's not this
824
00:51:39.190 --> 00:51:44.309
idea of well, I'm a victim
and that's what I am. A victim
825
00:51:44.389 --> 00:51:46.940
status is temporary. Yeah, like
and if for anyone listening it's been through
826
00:51:46.980 --> 00:51:51.860
that kind of stuff, there's nothing
innately wrong about being victimized. It had
827
00:51:51.980 --> 00:51:53.739
nothing to do with you. I
mean, even if you made some poor
828
00:51:53.780 --> 00:51:57.420
decisions that led to that, still
not your fault. We all make poor
829
00:51:57.460 --> 00:52:00.730
decisions every single day, like it
just it happened to you and there's nothing
830
00:52:00.730 --> 00:52:04.690
wrong with the individuals caught up in
this. There's something wrong with what happened
831
00:52:04.690 --> 00:52:07.730
to them. Yeah, even still
if you have been victimized, if you
832
00:52:07.769 --> 00:52:10.769
are going through that situation, it
is okay to receive help. We all
833
00:52:10.849 --> 00:52:15.880
need it. Everyone needs help from
time to time, and but that does
834
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:20.199
not define you. That's not where
your identity is. And moving forward,
835
00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:23.760
if there's any responsibility, it is
to say, okay, now that I've
836
00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:28.639
gotten the help I need, I'm
healthy again. Are Healthy for the first
837
00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:30.909
time. Okay, great, it's
been certainly if you're a believer. Okay,
838
00:52:31.070 --> 00:52:35.150
now go out and serve your neighbor. Yeah, you know if I
839
00:52:35.230 --> 00:52:37.590
have any action outem for them,
kind of like I told the other girls,
840
00:52:37.710 --> 00:52:39.269
no need to pay back, but
hey, if you want to help,
841
00:52:39.550 --> 00:52:43.150
then help help the next person.
And that's really the whole point,
842
00:52:43.190 --> 00:52:45.380
because at the end of the day, it's not about being a sex trafficking
843
00:52:45.420 --> 00:52:47.340
victim or this or this or this. It's all just image bearers of God.
844
00:52:47.539 --> 00:52:52.059
We're just people, were brothers and
sisters that are all messed up,
845
00:52:52.420 --> 00:52:54.739
but we've got a, you know, perfect father and we've got the perfect
846
00:52:54.739 --> 00:52:59.210
savior in Jesus, and we can, we can now move forward with life
847
00:52:59.530 --> 00:53:02.489
with a light burden because he carries
us through it. And and then so
848
00:53:02.610 --> 00:53:06.090
that that's that's my message. The
enemy and then the world wants us to
849
00:53:06.130 --> 00:53:07.889
stay in some kind of label of
like you're this, you're this, that,
850
00:53:07.929 --> 00:53:13.079
you you are your past. It
Ain't aboudy yesterday. It's about where
851
00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:15.559
you're at today, from where the
Lord's leading you tomorrow. Yeah, a
852
00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:19.320
man. So if people wanted to
get in touch with you, what's the
853
00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:23.360
website and maybe an email address?
Reach out to you. Sure. Yeah,
854
00:53:23.400 --> 00:53:27.909
the the websites. If you just
google us, justice ministries, where
855
00:53:27.949 --> 00:53:31.750
you go to wwwe justice ministries dot
Org. Okay, we're also on facebook
856
00:53:31.869 --> 00:53:36.750
and instagram and we also have a
smartphone APP. So if they in your
857
00:53:36.789 --> 00:53:40.070
APP store, if you just search
justice ministries, our logo is a bison,
858
00:53:40.269 --> 00:53:44.059
American Buffalo. Yeah, a lot
of people ask us what is that
859
00:53:44.099 --> 00:53:45.780
about and when we pick that just
because it was a cool looking mascot.
860
00:53:45.940 --> 00:53:50.980
But but with with Bison, when
predators would approach a herd of Bison,
861
00:53:51.340 --> 00:53:54.659
they would kind of form a natural
kind of a protective perimeter around the smaller
862
00:53:54.730 --> 00:53:58.889
bi center with one was sick and
things like that, to kind of protect
863
00:53:58.929 --> 00:54:01.530
them from from the the wolves or
whatever going after them. And and that's
864
00:54:01.530 --> 00:54:05.369
kind of our posture where we're here
more than defensive posture, not so much
865
00:54:05.369 --> 00:54:08.329
offensive. The other thing that's kind
of interesting is bison in America used to
866
00:54:08.449 --> 00:54:13.239
flourish and run all over the planes
and whatnot, and and they almost went
867
00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:15.599
extinct, you know, yeah,
because they were kind of, if you
868
00:54:15.679 --> 00:54:17.559
will, oppressed so heavily. But
no one looks at a bison and says
869
00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:21.199
wow, what a weak animal,
right. So that's again kind of kind
870
00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:23.590
of my message to our our survivors. It's like no one looks at Bison
871
00:54:23.630 --> 00:54:27.590
and says, Oh wow, I
mean that's a strong, strong animal.
872
00:54:28.030 --> 00:54:30.949
And and what they went through a
hundred years ago and nothing to do with
873
00:54:30.989 --> 00:54:32.429
them. It was just a greed
of other other people. Yeah, but
874
00:54:32.469 --> 00:54:36.550
yeah. So, anyways, when
you look on the that look us up,
875
00:54:36.550 --> 00:54:38.780
you'll see that little logo. Okay, American, cool. So justice
876
00:54:38.820 --> 00:54:43.780
ministries dot org and they can reach
out to you through that. Your email
877
00:54:43.780 --> 00:54:46.099
dress is likely, they're sure,
and phone number reach out to. And
878
00:54:46.219 --> 00:54:49.539
then, if you guys who are
listening, if you want to donate and
879
00:54:49.539 --> 00:54:53.570
support their ministry, like any nonprofit, they need your support. Maybe your
880
00:54:53.650 --> 00:54:59.849
church has really got a burden for
the issue of sex trafficking certainly. I'm
881
00:54:59.889 --> 00:55:02.250
sure you guys would love churches supporting
him. Oh, I probably already have,
882
00:55:02.369 --> 00:55:06.210
and that's sometimes our primary support.
Yeah, so, yeah, we
883
00:55:06.289 --> 00:55:09.440
we're happy to speak at churches or
small groups and happy to set up a
884
00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:13.239
zoom meeting or call with with anybody
wants to learn more. I mean,
885
00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:15.239
I get it, I welcome I
welcome the questions and we want to be
886
00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:20.679
as straightforward as we can and tell
you what we can. That doesn't jeopardize
887
00:55:20.679 --> 00:55:22.510
any security. But yeah, it's
a weird thing to market. Yeah,
888
00:55:23.269 --> 00:55:28.349
this counter sex trafficking is a tough
thing to advertise. But but yeah,
889
00:55:28.349 --> 00:55:30.510
we certainly appreciate you guys having us
and helping us. Hey, thank you
890
00:55:30.590 --> 00:55:34.670
for what you're doing in the collaboration. As we it's just all an effort.
891
00:55:34.750 --> 00:55:37.659
Just just take a stance for life. Yeah, and serve the oppressed
892
00:55:37.780 --> 00:55:40.659
and and again, I love what
you are doing and we're happy to partner
893
00:55:40.699 --> 00:55:44.739
with you where we can. Yeah, I appreciate that. Brother, appreciate
894
00:55:44.780 --> 00:55:47.019
your time. I bless you and
you guys who are listening. We appreciate
895
00:55:47.099 --> 00:55:51.769
you listening. We just ask you
to share this podcast, share it with
896
00:55:51.889 --> 00:55:54.170
friends and family, put it out
on social media. Reach out to me,
897
00:55:54.250 --> 00:55:59.889
D parks at cities for lifecom and
her V cassie organ cities for Lifecom,
898
00:56:00.329 --> 00:56:04.400
if you have any any questions,
and maybe other subjects you want us
899
00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:07.920
to cover. We'd certainly live a
cover their subjects. But until next time,
900
00:56:07.960 --> 00:56:20.670
God bless give me our love for
love, give me our loft for
901
00:56:20.909 --> 00:56:32.019
gratitude. I know it will cost
me my life. Nothing's too precious.
902
00:56:32.340 --> 00:56:34.699
And some met you
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