Abortion and Sex Trafficking - Interview with Justice Ministries Founder Mark Blackwell

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.480 And I am yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and 2 00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:10.029 me, Lord. I welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. In 3 00:00:10.070 --> 00:00:14.470 this episode we're going to talk with Mark Blackwell from justice ministries about how abortion 4 00:00:14.589 --> 00:00:17.589 and sex trafficking go hand in hand and how we can help women in those 5 00:00:17.629 --> 00:00:28.300 situations. Stay tuned. Send Me Lord. I felt show passish touch your 6 00:00:28.820 --> 00:00:36.770 home use. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcasts. Appreciate you guys 7 00:00:36.890 --> 00:00:39.729 listening. As we promised a couple of weeks ago, we're going to do 8 00:00:40.369 --> 00:00:44.490 this episode and really focus on the issue of sex trafficking and abortion and how 9 00:00:44.530 --> 00:00:47.929 those issues collide, and we have a special guest here with us, Mark 10 00:00:47.969 --> 00:00:52.039 Black well with justice ministries. He's going to introduce himself and just a minute. 11 00:00:52.039 --> 00:00:54.719 But, Vicky, this was a something we just kind of as we 12 00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:58.759 were talking about the domestic violence when we did that episode a couple of weeks 13 00:00:58.759 --> 00:01:00.840 ago. This is another one of those issues that we really felt like people 14 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:04.989 need to be informed about how these issues, how domestic abused, domestic violence 15 00:01:04.989 --> 00:01:11.390 and abortion kind of collide, and then how sex trafficking collides with the issueable 16 00:01:11.390 --> 00:01:15.269 because we've seen it out there where we have had strong suspicions that there has 17 00:01:15.349 --> 00:01:21.540 been sex trafficked women being brought and we never really know quite what to do 18 00:01:22.260 --> 00:01:25.739 and we have done things like call the national hotline, but without a whole 19 00:01:25.739 --> 00:01:29.620 lot of success. So we thought it was time to call in an x 20 00:01:29.859 --> 00:01:33.129 heard and really find out what we can do, what to look for and 21 00:01:33.250 --> 00:01:37.609 how we should respond as sidewalk counselors. Yeah, so, guys, those 22 00:01:37.609 --> 00:01:40.170 who are out in front of abortion centers and you trying to reach out and 23 00:01:40.290 --> 00:01:44.650 bring help and hope to the women going in, you'll see some of these 24 00:01:44.689 --> 00:01:48.239 situations. Maybe some of the stuff that that mark says look out for you'll 25 00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:51.040 recognize all. I've seen that in the past and I just didn't know. 26 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:53.879 And so this is just a help equip you guys, in form you guys, 27 00:01:55.400 --> 00:01:57.200 and so mark, just just go ahead and introduce yourself. Man. 28 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:00.200 What's your title? What's the ministry all about? And then we'll get into 29 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:04.030 some of the some of the INS and out. Sure thing we'll first off, 30 00:02:04.150 --> 00:02:06.430 just thanks so much for having me. I'm glad to be here and 31 00:02:06.510 --> 00:02:09.789 it's great to have discussion with you all and I feel this is a very 32 00:02:09.830 --> 00:02:13.710 similar fight, a matter of fact, I often say that, you know 33 00:02:13.909 --> 00:02:17.139 us being a counter sex trafficking agency, that it's really just an extension of 34 00:02:17.219 --> 00:02:21.659 the pro life movement. Yes, that's what we're about and you know, 35 00:02:21.740 --> 00:02:24.580 we're often times, you know, fighting for these individuals that are at high 36 00:02:24.580 --> 00:02:29.780 risk of death themselves with what they're trapped in. And so I just appreciate 37 00:02:29.819 --> 00:02:32.889 all that you do so much. I we've partnered with you personally and on 38 00:02:34.289 --> 00:02:38.370 many efforts and and just again happy to be here and thanks for having me. 39 00:02:38.409 --> 00:02:40.530 Yeah, but yeah, so I'm mark black well, I'm the president 40 00:02:40.569 --> 00:02:45.879 and founder of justice ministries and we've been around for a little over ten years. 41 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:50.280 For me, basically, the issue of sex trafficking came on my radar 42 00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:53.560 my last semester in college. I was at a conference in Atlanta, Georgia, 43 00:02:53.719 --> 00:02:57.000 many of you know, called The Passion Conference. Okay, yeah, 44 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:00.150 and that's where I learned about the issue of sex trafficking, world blight and 45 00:03:00.229 --> 00:03:02.349 what was going on and and God just broke my heart for the issue and 46 00:03:02.389 --> 00:03:07.030 I felt God was saying to serve this population of people. I didn't know 47 00:03:07.069 --> 00:03:08.590 what that would look like. I didn't know that would mean starting an agency 48 00:03:08.629 --> 00:03:13.659 or anything like that. But I just felt this call to serve this population. 49 00:03:13.740 --> 00:03:15.900 Yeah, and after doing kind of my homework and research of what was 50 00:03:15.939 --> 00:03:21.099 going on overseas, but also stateside, and I found that wow, there's, 51 00:03:21.180 --> 00:03:24.699 you know, young women and even teenage girls being raped and sold for 52 00:03:24.819 --> 00:03:29.569 profit on the streets of Charlotte. You know, as a man, as 53 00:03:29.569 --> 00:03:30.969 a Christian, even as a Charlotte, and you know, I couldn't sit 54 00:03:31.009 --> 00:03:36.370 on that information and I felt this called start my own backyard. Yeah, 55 00:03:36.969 --> 00:03:39.050 and so, yeah, so God just kind of prompted us in that we 56 00:03:39.169 --> 00:03:43.520 were the first kind of trafficking agency in the Charlotte region and one of the 57 00:03:43.639 --> 00:03:46.199 only few in the state at the time. You know, ten years ago 58 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:51.400 the term human trafficking was starting to get some amentium people were labeling what was 59 00:03:51.479 --> 00:03:53.439 going on in this modern day slavery and starting to get a sense of what 60 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:57.189 was happening, but it was still very, very new, you know. 61 00:03:57.750 --> 00:04:00.150 So there was a lot of kind of pioneering effort to be done here. 62 00:04:01.110 --> 00:04:04.949 But again, after seeing the need, God just called us to serve this 63 00:04:05.110 --> 00:04:10.020 group. And you know, our models basically based off the story of the 64 00:04:10.060 --> 00:04:13.180 Good Samaritan. Yeah, there's no secret salce to what we do. We're 65 00:04:13.219 --> 00:04:16.139 just meeting people and their time of need and their tongue of vulnerability and as 66 00:04:16.379 --> 00:04:19.060 the you know, as the church, you know, try trying to help 67 00:04:19.100 --> 00:04:23.660 meet those needs. whichers are very basic. You know that. It's safe 68 00:04:24.220 --> 00:04:27.730 shelter, it's transportation them out of the ditch and getting them to an end. 69 00:04:27.769 --> 00:04:31.889 Absolutely and obviously the complexities, you know, with the particular subject of 70 00:04:31.970 --> 00:04:34.089 sex trafficking. By the end of the day, these are just people that 71 00:04:34.209 --> 00:04:39.040 need help, but like all of us, so we try to provide whatever 72 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:46.240 resources we can and essentially help them on their journey to independence and and that's 73 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:48.519 that's really the name of the game. Yeah, so let me ask so 74 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:53.829 just I'm sure guys, you, you who are listening, you've heard the 75 00:04:53.910 --> 00:04:58.949 term sex trafficking and and maybe even lately it seems like there's been an uptick 76 00:04:58.990 --> 00:05:04.149 in this people's attention towards sex trafficking and and there's maybe different terms or in 77 00:05:04.269 --> 00:05:08.420 things that are associated with that, but just define our term, root with 78 00:05:08.579 --> 00:05:11.180 sex traffick, what it was that mean? You talked about modern day slave 79 00:05:11.259 --> 00:05:14.740 grades. Just que people into what exactly we're talking about. So so, 80 00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:16.779 on a bigger scale. There's there's human trafficking. I mean that that's how 81 00:05:16.819 --> 00:05:20.610 you would define this crime. Yeah, and that involves Labor trafficking, that 82 00:05:20.730 --> 00:05:26.730 involves sex trafficking. That can involve things like organ harvesting. Yeah, child 83 00:05:26.889 --> 00:05:30.250 soldiers, you know, any really any with with the Labor side, all 84 00:05:30.290 --> 00:05:34.920 kinds of force labor, from a gray and warehousing to live in, maids 85 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:38.680 and, you know, housekeepers and that kind of thing. Right, and 86 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:43.240 sometimes those intersect into sex trafficking as well. Just because someone's being labor traffick 87 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:46.399 they may be exploited sexually as well. Yeah, so there's it's not a 88 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:48.079 super clean, you know thing to say, Oh, that's definitely this case 89 00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:51.470 or definitely that case. But where we target most of our effort is in 90 00:05:51.550 --> 00:05:55.470 the topic of sex trafficking. Yeah, and and again based here in the 91 00:05:55.509 --> 00:06:00.189 US. With that said, we've served we serve predominantly a adult females, 92 00:06:00.310 --> 00:06:03.149 yeah, but we have served minors and girls, also boys, some men 93 00:06:03.540 --> 00:06:08.300 and those that identify with the Lgbtq community, just all the above. And 94 00:06:08.540 --> 00:06:11.819 we've also taken on some labor trafficking cases as well when they've come across our 95 00:06:11.899 --> 00:06:16.139 desk. Yeah, but our main focus is sexual exploitation and sex trafficking is 96 00:06:16.220 --> 00:06:18.970 where we kind of spend most of our time. Out The way you define 97 00:06:19.209 --> 00:06:24.689 sex trafficking in the US by law, it's where there's a basically a commercial 98 00:06:24.689 --> 00:06:30.009 sex act done by force, fraud or Corsion, or in which the individual 99 00:06:30.170 --> 00:06:32.079 is under eighteen years old. Yeah. So. So, with that said, 100 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:35.920 do you hear about a sixteen year old prostitute? Legally not possible, 101 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:42.000 right. Yeah, a child doesn't have the right to consent into this lifestyle. 102 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:45.560 Right. So if they're under eighteen, it's automatic trafficking. Yeah, 103 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:47.589 and if they're over eighteen, if they're an adult, then you you have 104 00:06:47.670 --> 00:06:51.910 to prove force, frauder corsion happened that push them into this commercial sex industry, 105 00:06:53.189 --> 00:06:57.110 which can be what we see is traditional prostitution. It can be exotic 106 00:06:57.149 --> 00:07:00.430 dancing, it can be camming, it can be pornography, it can be 107 00:07:00.910 --> 00:07:03.339 even in like the sugar daddy sugar baby context. There is a range. 108 00:07:03.740 --> 00:07:08.019 Most of what we're doing with is what we would think of is force prostitution. 109 00:07:08.180 --> 00:07:11.540 Yeah, yeah, okay, and I've heard and tell me if I'm 110 00:07:11.540 --> 00:07:14.420 wrong about this, but we're right now we're in Charlotte, North Carolina. 111 00:07:14.740 --> 00:07:17.410 Now people are listening from all over the United States and people listen from all 112 00:07:17.490 --> 00:07:23.449 over the world to this podcast. Sure, but just talking about Charlotte and 113 00:07:23.529 --> 00:07:27.889 just the context here. What are this is ex I've heard it's Charlotte's like 114 00:07:27.889 --> 00:07:30.920 number for the nation for sex chaffing. Is that correct or is that in 115 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:33.360 Korect? The numbers are interesting. What do we get our numbers and stats? 116 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:36.839 Will we get it from data and and data is a little bit all 117 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:41.319 over the place with this topic of sex trafficking in the US. So I 118 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:45.829 leaned towards more conservative. But I'll put it this way. North Carolina, 119 00:07:46.310 --> 00:07:48.430 by the stats through the National Resource Center, is a top ten state. 120 00:07:48.509 --> 00:07:51.910 Yeah, and Charlotte is the number one location in North Carolina. Yeah, 121 00:07:53.230 --> 00:07:56.750 so you could argue then that Charlotte is a top ten city. Yeah, 122 00:07:57.069 --> 00:08:00.620 in the US that you can make that, that argument. It is there's 123 00:08:00.660 --> 00:08:03.779 something about Charlotte in particular that would cause it to be or can you identify 124 00:08:03.899 --> 00:08:07.980 what? What makes something a top city? Absolutely, you know. I 125 00:08:07.060 --> 00:08:11.970 mean obviously the the east coast and generals more densely populated and you have between 126 00:08:13.050 --> 00:08:16.009 Miami and New York, Charlotte's kind of a midway point. Yeah, we're 127 00:08:16.009 --> 00:08:20.050 also a midway point between Atlanta and DC. Yeah, we have a major 128 00:08:20.129 --> 00:08:24.129 international airport and we're not far from I forty. We're right here at eighty 129 00:08:24.170 --> 00:08:26.089 five or right here at I seventy seven, and you can get anywhere in 130 00:08:26.089 --> 00:08:30.240 the country from Charlotte pretty quickly. Yeah, we host a lot of major 131 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:33.000 events. Within the past decade we've hosted both the RNC and the DNC. 132 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:37.000 We have all the major sports teams, we have NASCAR, we have we 133 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:41.070 host all kind of large events and anytime there's large populations of people being brought 134 00:08:41.110 --> 00:08:45.149 to a community, traffickers see that as potential business. Yeah, so it's 135 00:08:45.190 --> 00:08:46.629 not. It's not that there's something wrong with Charlotte in general that like, 136 00:08:46.750 --> 00:08:50.509 Oh, Charlotte is just has this high risk. It's that, like any 137 00:08:50.509 --> 00:08:54.710 large metropolitan area, we're hosting large events and we're easy to travel to and 138 00:08:54.860 --> 00:08:58.620 exit from and when you have that, that's just that sets up the ingredients 139 00:08:58.899 --> 00:09:03.539 to be a high risk location for sex trafficking. You know, Charlotte is 140 00:09:03.580 --> 00:09:09.220 also one of the abortion capitals or a southeast particularly where we minister at latrobe. 141 00:09:09.379 --> 00:09:13.970 Sure is that is there a link there between so many people coming really 142 00:09:15.009 --> 00:09:18.169 from all over the southeast for abortions here in Charlotte and the incidence of sex 143 00:09:18.289 --> 00:09:22.929 trafficking? Yeah, I think so. I mean I think those those two 144 00:09:22.929 --> 00:09:26.639 issues go hand in hand. You know, sex is something that its main 145 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:30.440 function is to produce children. You know, I feel like in our culture 146 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:33.080 it's sad that I think we almost need to find that from it is like 147 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:37.320 people have sexual relations to procreate, like that is the deal. But it's 148 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:41.990 become so perverted and twisted and brought into other categories and the idea of having 149 00:09:43.269 --> 00:09:46.350 one partner for your life is just this foreign concept, like we were so 150 00:09:46.429 --> 00:09:50.870 far away from like the biblical direction on how to raise a family and how 151 00:09:50.909 --> 00:09:54.500 to do this. So yeah, absolutely. You know, if someone is 152 00:09:54.700 --> 00:09:58.500 in sex trafficking and they're being a sexually exploited multiple times a day, even 153 00:09:58.580 --> 00:10:01.860 if they're on pills or using any kind of protection, still the chance of 154 00:10:01.940 --> 00:10:07.409 pregnancy is high and if they're seen as a product that needs to produce, 155 00:10:09.450 --> 00:10:13.169 the trafficker doesn't want to take nine months off, so he's going to most 156 00:10:13.210 --> 00:10:16.809 likely have her terminate that child. There's another version of this that we've seen. 157 00:10:16.889 --> 00:10:20.970 That's even in kind of the if you can have a further underbelly to 158 00:10:20.169 --> 00:10:24.960 to sex trafficking, where where that's not happening, sometimes the child is brought 159 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:31.000 to term and used as either leverage for the victim or that child then sold 160 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:35.559 into some type of human trafficking as well. So it mean it's a terrible, 161 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:39.029 terrible situation, but certainly, yeah, that the two do go hand 162 00:10:39.110 --> 00:10:41.830 in hand. Yes, so, no, sounds abortion is helping the sex 163 00:10:41.950 --> 00:10:46.350 trafficker to cover over, Oh yeah, cover his his crimes. Absolutely. 164 00:10:46.389 --> 00:10:50.059 Yeah, yeah, that's that is correct. Yeah, I mean we're dealing 165 00:10:50.100 --> 00:10:56.100 with a society, like you said, sex is just this recreational thing and 166 00:10:56.179 --> 00:10:58.940 obviously we know that God created sex as an enjoyable thing. Sure, right, 167 00:11:00.100 --> 00:11:01.580 absolutely, yeah. But then we take that, as you said, 168 00:11:01.659 --> 00:11:07.129 and pervert that and make that that it's only about enjoyment, not about procreation. 169 00:11:07.370 --> 00:11:11.090 And you've got it's crazy. We're talking about an industry. Yes, 170 00:11:11.370 --> 00:11:13.330 I mean from our perspective it's crazy. We're talking about an industry, the 171 00:11:13.409 --> 00:11:18.639 abortion industry, that makes, you know, million billions of dollars every year 172 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:22.440 off of this thing called abortion. But I mean you're dealing with an industry, 173 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:26.639 the sex trafficking industry, multibillion dollar. Yeah, that's one of the 174 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:30.000 places when to get at this is a multi billion dollar industry. If the 175 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:33.029 level of money that is involved with this. I mean even ten years ago 176 00:11:33.470 --> 00:11:37.029 when we started, I remember one of the the phrases people would use would 177 00:11:37.029 --> 00:11:41.629 say, if Nike, Google, starbucks and Walmart can bind their profits set 178 00:11:41.710 --> 00:11:46.230 global sex trafficking still bringing in more money. Yeah, and those companies combined. 179 00:11:46.309 --> 00:11:50.820 And so so you're dealing with a megacrime industry. Yeah, and the 180 00:11:50.860 --> 00:11:52.500 unfortunately, when you have big money, it greases a lot of wheels, 181 00:11:52.539 --> 00:11:56.460 even all the way throughout government and and yeah, and the systems that should 182 00:11:56.460 --> 00:12:01.850 be stopping that and keeping that from happening. Well, if you have high 183 00:12:01.889 --> 00:12:05.529 places of power and limited morals and there's money floating around, that is a 184 00:12:05.570 --> 00:12:09.610 bad combination. Yeah, it is a bad combination. You unleash, just 185 00:12:09.009 --> 00:12:13.730 open the floodgates for all kinds of evil. Absolutely. I know on social 186 00:12:13.809 --> 00:12:20.039 media and other rounds there's a lot of this talk about child trafficking and just 187 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:22.120 it seems like it's on an uptick. Is that? Is that the case 188 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:26.279 that there is an uptick in sect traffing. You're just more people are talking 189 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:31.429 about it. I don't know, a couple of stings. The the awareness 190 00:12:31.710 --> 00:12:35.429 has increased. Okay, child trafficking has been going on since well before we 191 00:12:35.549 --> 00:12:39.309 started and well beyond that. I mean, yeah, it's been going on 192 00:12:39.509 --> 00:12:43.860 for very, very long time. It is gaining traction and child trafficking specifically 193 00:12:43.980 --> 00:12:50.460 is getting more attention. There's some restructuring going on the federal law enforcement levels 194 00:12:50.539 --> 00:12:54.139 that I think is is having a ripple effect that there is being beneficial. 195 00:12:54.379 --> 00:12:58.169 Okay, free up more manpower to to go after this subject. In general. 196 00:12:58.250 --> 00:13:01.809 Law enforcement agencies are tax then and spread then. Right. Yeah, 197 00:13:03.210 --> 00:13:07.090 there is some reprioritizing that's been going on that I think is going alongside with 198 00:13:07.210 --> 00:13:11.929 with some of the increase that we're seeing. And you know, even with 199 00:13:11.929 --> 00:13:16.840 the trump administration, of just recently they passed thirty five million dollars to go 200 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:20.240 into actual victim resources. There's been a lot of money raced in the name 201 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:24.799 of human trafficking, but it would shock you how little of that actually ends 202 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:28.029 up being direct services or bed space. Yeah, for survive of it. 203 00:13:28.870 --> 00:13:31.149 So the money that just came through, I mean we didn't see any of 204 00:13:31.190 --> 00:13:33.990 it. There was only one agency in North Carolina and one in South Carolina 205 00:13:33.029 --> 00:13:35.389 that received, you know, that funding, which is which is great. 206 00:13:35.389 --> 00:13:39.710 I mean it's excellent, sure, and that will go fast, unfortunately. 207 00:13:39.750 --> 00:13:43.659 Yeah, but I was still just encouraged to see that momentum that, hey, 208 00:13:43.700 --> 00:13:46.139 even at the federal level, some some money is being loosened up to 209 00:13:46.419 --> 00:13:52.019 specifically target getting resources for for individuals that have been caught up in human traffion, 210 00:13:52.059 --> 00:13:54.779 because it should be a top priority. I mean the fact that it's 211 00:13:54.820 --> 00:13:56.490 going on. We were talking before the podcast, you know. I mean 212 00:13:56.889 --> 00:14:01.769 slavery was abolished a long time ago in our country. This is a form 213 00:14:01.809 --> 00:14:05.009 of modern day slavery and we should be coming at it really hard and really 214 00:14:05.049 --> 00:14:09.519 swift. But for too long we've we've basically just been kind of dancing around 215 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:13.720 the issue and sometimes I feel that we're more concerned about the risk of acting 216 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:18.080 versus the risk of not acting. Yeah, and it really that's been something 217 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:20.519 that's bug me for a long time. But it's a true pandemic. I 218 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:24.070 mean we have a serious problem going on right now. Yeah, and so 219 00:14:24.190 --> 00:14:28.750 we know it's there, we know it's happening and we know that it's certainly 220 00:14:28.029 --> 00:14:31.470 these women are being brought to the abortion center. We know that and in 221 00:14:31.549 --> 00:14:37.549 fact we have seen what we have suspected sometimes. But maybe could you speak 222 00:14:37.549 --> 00:14:41.460 a little bit about what to look for, because I know you probably would 223 00:14:41.539 --> 00:14:46.379 notice things that we might not. Yeah, I mean I can tell you 224 00:14:46.580 --> 00:14:48.460 know, at least you guys are. You are pretty sharp. So I 225 00:14:48.580 --> 00:14:50.580 yeah, I'd probably pick up a most of it. But and if you 226 00:14:50.659 --> 00:14:54.090 want to check it out, the National Resource Center, also called Pilarish Project, 227 00:14:54.289 --> 00:14:58.889 on their website they do have a list of recognizing the signs. If 228 00:14:58.929 --> 00:15:03.129 you can probably some fifty, fifty things to look for. You will put 229 00:15:03.169 --> 00:15:05.129 a link for that actually in the description of this podcast. Sure, those 230 00:15:05.169 --> 00:15:07.879 who are listening can can go to that website, but some of the big 231 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:13.240 ones would be, you know, and again it's you know, most women 232 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:16.960 that are being brought to an abortion clinic. I mean they there's a lot 233 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:20.080 of shame, there's a lot of emotion going on, so that could be 234 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:24.710 confused to look like something that it's not necessarily. Yeah, so I would 235 00:15:24.710 --> 00:15:28.230 then zoom out a little bit and say, okay, anytime there's maybe a 236 00:15:28.309 --> 00:15:31.789 male bringing a female in that they don't look like they'd be in a typical 237 00:15:31.830 --> 00:15:35.379 relationship. You know, that should be somewhat of red flag. Like a 238 00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:41.220 much older man with a much younger exact person might be one example exactly. 239 00:15:41.539 --> 00:15:43.860 You can kind of in your own you know, assessment going on that yeah, 240 00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:46.620 it looks that's got right. And then, certainly, as we discussed, 241 00:15:46.700 --> 00:15:50.970 you know, if if there was multiple women, yeah, that one 242 00:15:52.049 --> 00:15:54.090 guy or one individual was bringing in and we could be a woman to I 243 00:15:54.090 --> 00:15:58.690 mean there are female traffickers. It could be a woman bringing three other women 244 00:15:58.809 --> 00:16:02.450 in and that that's just bizarre. I mean it's it'd be a crazy scene. 245 00:16:03.409 --> 00:16:07.080 The individual, the victim, oftentimes doesn't really have control over their own 246 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:11.080 documentation, over their own money. Sometimes they're a little fuzzy on where they're 247 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:15.600 at and you know where they're going. And if sometimes you have opportunity to 248 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:18.350 kind of engage in a conversation level, often times you don't, but if 249 00:16:18.389 --> 00:16:22.990 there is that opportunity, you can pick up on that really quickly. Just 250 00:16:22.149 --> 00:16:26.429 the victim often times won't have a lot of context that you'd have with a 251 00:16:26.909 --> 00:16:30.470 regular Orson you're meeting on the street. Let me ask you, because it 252 00:16:30.509 --> 00:16:33.179 occurred to me as you were speaking because we're in in the instant. I 253 00:16:33.299 --> 00:16:36.820 was telling you earlier on that that we did see before we started the podcast, 254 00:16:36.860 --> 00:16:38.500 where we did see a man bring for victims, well, what we 255 00:16:38.620 --> 00:16:42.659 thought were for victims. They it was the middle of summer and they were 256 00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:47.970 all wearing long sleeves and we found that odd and we wondered. We were 257 00:16:48.049 --> 00:16:52.730 wondering where they being, where they drugged, where they using drugs? Is 258 00:16:52.769 --> 00:16:56.850 that a form of control in in sex trafficking, and so would even something 259 00:16:56.889 --> 00:17:00.330 like that, long sleeves in the middle of a hot North Carolina summer? 260 00:17:00.370 --> 00:17:03.119 Yeah, that's that's good observation. Yeah, absolutely, drug use is definitely 261 00:17:03.160 --> 00:17:07.720 common within sex trafficking. At that's not every case. I've been actually shocked 262 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:12.039 by how many cases that there wasn't drug use involved. Oftentimes, depending on 263 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:17.390 this type of trafficker, it can be utilized or not, and then sometimes 264 00:17:17.430 --> 00:17:21.269 it's something they use count towards the end, if you will, to keep 265 00:17:21.349 --> 00:17:25.109 someone compliant. But but yeah, know that the long sleeves could have been 266 00:17:25.150 --> 00:17:27.390 used to cover that. There also could have been significant tattoos or branding that 267 00:17:27.470 --> 00:17:33.059 have been easily identifiable and then that could be used to cover that as well. 268 00:17:33.220 --> 00:17:37.539 But yeah, I the big things to look out for with potential victim 269 00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:41.140 is kind of their demeanor, how they're carrying themselves. Again, walking into 270 00:17:41.140 --> 00:17:45.809 abortion clinic gets tough because they're probably already feeling all kind of emotion. But 271 00:17:45.049 --> 00:17:48.410 that on the street. That's what we would look for is is the way 272 00:17:48.410 --> 00:17:51.329 they're carrying themselves, that they won't make eye contact, if they won't speak 273 00:17:51.329 --> 00:17:55.250 on their own behalf and someone speaks for them, things of that nature, 274 00:17:55.329 --> 00:17:57.720 and then not having a lot of context on you know, where they're from 275 00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:00.480 or what they do or how they get here, how long they stay in 276 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.119 you know, things the best of US could answer easily. Right, if 277 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:07.400 you're being controlled by another person, you may not have quick answers or you're 278 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:11.000 giving scripted answers. Right. Sometimes we're just watching them and we're not going 279 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:12.950 to have an interaction. But are there things that we could be watching coming 280 00:18:12.990 --> 00:18:18.150 from the trafficer? That his interaction. I'm assuming to say him. I 281 00:18:18.230 --> 00:18:22.069 know certimes it might be a woman, but I'll say him just to make 282 00:18:22.069 --> 00:18:25.230 it easy. So his interactions with the women. Are there things that are 283 00:18:25.309 --> 00:18:29.819 kind of tipoffs? Yeah, I mean just that that presence of control. 284 00:18:30.180 --> 00:18:33.140 I mean is the big one. I mean, traffickers will confuse you, 285 00:18:33.339 --> 00:18:36.740 that they will. I mean they're they're they're manipulators. So I mean then 286 00:18:36.819 --> 00:18:38.579 one sense they may try to be loving on them and, you know, 287 00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:42.369 all caring and another minute really really harsh. It's all over the place, 288 00:18:42.450 --> 00:18:48.210 but in general you're looking for overall theme of this person seems to be controlling 289 00:18:48.289 --> 00:18:53.410 this other person and there seems to be a real in submissive situation or a 290 00:18:53.569 --> 00:18:57.680 fear of that that person. Yeah, so I don't ask this question to 291 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:03.400 kind of get into like a cultural profiling or anything like that, but is 292 00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:08.440 it the case that many of the women that are being trafficked are from out 293 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:11.430 of the country? You know, that's so they might not exactly speak English, 294 00:19:11.430 --> 00:19:15.549 they might have an accent. Is that another thing that can kind of 295 00:19:15.630 --> 00:19:18.710 be a common denominator there that we could pick up on? Let's say we 296 00:19:18.750 --> 00:19:21.430 see some of those signs that you're talking about, included with the fact that 297 00:19:21.509 --> 00:19:23.740 this person didn't even speak the language. Absolutely not. If someone didn't speak 298 00:19:23.740 --> 00:19:27.700 English that you know, and they're again still it appears that they're being controlled. 299 00:19:27.740 --> 00:19:32.180 This isn't a person that's caring for them and translating and being kind. 300 00:19:32.259 --> 00:19:34.380 They're being harsh. That would be a big red flag. For our experience, 301 00:19:34.420 --> 00:19:38.569 it's actually really surprised me. The high majority of our clients have actually 302 00:19:38.569 --> 00:19:42.289 been US citizens. It is blown my mind. When we got into this 303 00:19:42.329 --> 00:19:47.049 I assumed it probably be fifty, you know, fifty percent US citizen, 304 00:19:47.170 --> 00:19:51.490 fifty percent for national. The high majority has actually been US citizens. Wow, 305 00:19:51.849 --> 00:19:55.880 and and a lot of the trafficking has been. There's different kinds of 306 00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:59.640 pimp. There's kind of the Romeo Pimp, which is a small time operator, 307 00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:03.599 basically acting like he's in a relationship. It looks similar domestic violence but 308 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:07.109 martialized, and there's the guerrilla pimp, which is heavily violent and and things 309 00:20:07.150 --> 00:20:10.670 like that, and then there's kind of the CEO pimp, which may be 310 00:20:10.829 --> 00:20:14.309 the one that you know is kind of presenting a fake business and that's how 311 00:20:14.349 --> 00:20:17.589 he goes after people and he has them convinced their own track for some kind 312 00:20:17.630 --> 00:20:22.539 of career, you know. And so there's there's a variety of more styles 313 00:20:22.619 --> 00:20:25.140 of it, but what we see very often is kind of what we called 314 00:20:25.180 --> 00:20:27.740 the Romeo Pimp, and that's where, at least initially, the young lady 315 00:20:27.740 --> 00:20:30.740 felt like she was in a relationship with this person. Yea. And Yeah, 316 00:20:30.859 --> 00:20:34.460 she's having to go through some some crazy things, but she's in her 317 00:20:34.539 --> 00:20:37.769 mind justified that it's going to the end result, it's going to be there, 318 00:20:37.769 --> 00:20:41.210 eventually going to be together. Yea, this is just part of them 319 00:20:41.329 --> 00:20:45.130 getting the money they need to move on with life and things like that. 320 00:20:45.450 --> 00:20:48.369 I've heard that story time and time again. Yeah, where it was more 321 00:20:48.490 --> 00:20:52.480 comparable to what the young lady saw is like a relationship, until one day 322 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:56.720 she just kind of saw that enough is enough, or the abuse got so 323 00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:00.880 bad she had true concern for her life that I may not survive the week. 324 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.349 And then another big indicator why people call the hot line is they got 325 00:21:03.470 --> 00:21:08.190 pregnant and they they maybe will endure this for themselves because after all the trauma 326 00:21:08.470 --> 00:21:11.190 and abuse, they don't. They don't always. They get kind of paralyzed, 327 00:21:11.190 --> 00:21:15.029 they don't know what to do. Yeah, but then once, once 328 00:21:15.069 --> 00:21:18.619 they find out they're pregnant, there that innate maternal instinct is enough to say 329 00:21:18.779 --> 00:21:22.380 I can't have this for my child. I got to get out of here. 330 00:21:22.500 --> 00:21:26.500 And so we've gotten many a calls when it's not just hey, come 331 00:21:26.539 --> 00:21:29.500 get me it's hey, come get me. Also, I'm pregnant and I 332 00:21:29.619 --> 00:21:32.930 need help quick right, right. That's very common. I have so many 333 00:21:32.930 --> 00:21:36.690 questions for you. I I know of and I can't give the specifics on 334 00:21:36.769 --> 00:21:41.730 this, but I do know of definitely a sex trafficking whole thing going on, 335 00:21:41.009 --> 00:21:45.410 sure, but the woman is terrified, terrified for her life. She 336 00:21:45.730 --> 00:21:48.920 in the end decided not to pursue it. At first she was going to 337 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:53.119 pursue it, then decided not to. So I know things that are just 338 00:21:53.279 --> 00:22:00.240 so revolting and and so awful and I am not allowed for fear of harming 339 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:04.230 her. What do we do and how do we report what we see, 340 00:22:04.470 --> 00:22:10.190 especially if they're and maybe you could address that also, if the victim is 341 00:22:10.309 --> 00:22:12.509 not willing to report? It's a tough one. I mean that is one 342 00:22:12.549 --> 00:22:15.420 of our biggest struggles. Again, you know, to be really clear, 343 00:22:15.460 --> 00:22:18.740 we're a victim advocate organization. We're not we're not an investigative agency. You 344 00:22:18.900 --> 00:22:22.460 know, we partner with law enforcement, but we leave their job to be 345 00:22:22.539 --> 00:22:26.460 their job. In our job is our job. We collaborate with them wherever 346 00:22:26.579 --> 00:22:30.009 possible, but one of the biggest issues law enforcement runs into, and I 347 00:22:30.049 --> 00:22:34.130 think when that we run into as well is when the victim wants help but 348 00:22:34.289 --> 00:22:37.250 isn't ready for help, right, and that's a thin line, right. 349 00:22:37.250 --> 00:22:41.490 Yeah, you have some people that we could say you need help, but 350 00:22:41.529 --> 00:22:44.170 they don't think they need it and they're very tough to assist because they think 351 00:22:44.250 --> 00:22:47.400 it's fine or they haven't hit rock bottom for them yet, or or whatever 352 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:51.160 it is. But the person that legitimately wants help, they would legitimately one 353 00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:56.599 out. But the fear of the unknown is somehow more terrifying than the trauma 354 00:22:56.680 --> 00:22:59.829 that they're living in right now. Yeah, and and the fear that they're 355 00:22:59.829 --> 00:23:02.589 going to be killed. Exactly. Yeah, the fear of that or the 356 00:23:02.710 --> 00:23:06.670 fear that if I try to run, then my perpetrator wilcome after me and 357 00:23:06.710 --> 00:23:08.029 then he really will kill me. Right now he's just beating me, but 358 00:23:08.069 --> 00:23:12.220 if I, if I try to escape them unsuccessful, then the fear of, 359 00:23:14.259 --> 00:23:18.779 you know, potentially being killed is a big one. And then there's 360 00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:21.259 other manipulation tactics like well, if you run away, I'll go after you, 361 00:23:21.859 --> 00:23:22.619 know, your loved ones, you know, it's like that. That's 362 00:23:22.660 --> 00:23:26.170 pretty common. But yes, for for us that that is a big challenge 363 00:23:26.210 --> 00:23:30.529 and really what we need is when the victim is ready for help, whether 364 00:23:30.650 --> 00:23:33.529 through a law enforcement referral or they call us directly or another NGO like yourselves 365 00:23:33.569 --> 00:23:37.569 as connected and they said you're calling on behalf and you know you're in communications. 366 00:23:37.609 --> 00:23:40.650 You're saying, I want to help, I'm ready to get out. 367 00:23:40.970 --> 00:23:44.119 Well, we kind of need that invitation so we can provide services and help 368 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.200 them, help them get out. If the person's not ready, then we 369 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:51.039 can't force them into it. and You you're probably running into the same thing 370 00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:53.599 and I think the main thing to do there is just have that consistent outreach 371 00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:59.349 and just let them know help is here when you're ready and then if there 372 00:23:59.390 --> 00:24:02.509 are opportunities for conversation, which there rarely is. I mean it's not like 373 00:24:02.630 --> 00:24:04.190 we can go get in a coffee shop and talk about your exit plan. 374 00:24:04.230 --> 00:24:07.230 All this is being done in the margin. I mean this is being done 375 00:24:07.269 --> 00:24:11.460 in thin spaces of like hey, I had this moment to connect or I 376 00:24:11.500 --> 00:24:14.859 had this moment to send you this message or communicate this through a third party, 377 00:24:15.700 --> 00:24:19.180 helping get word that like help is available. But then if there's a 378 00:24:19.420 --> 00:24:22.539 lot of nerves, that can be a tough thing to navigate. So I 379 00:24:22.660 --> 00:24:26.250 think the main thing we can do is obviously just be available, be consistent 380 00:24:26.450 --> 00:24:30.609 and pray for them that they would they would attempt to exit. Yeah, 381 00:24:30.730 --> 00:24:36.170 on the second note, you know, I would highly encourage people, as 382 00:24:36.250 --> 00:24:37.839 with law enforcement, when you see an active crime going on, are you 383 00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:41.160 say hey, this looks like trafficking. I definitely think this is, and 384 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:45.240 it's happening in real time and there's actionable things that can be done. One 385 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:48.000 hundred percent, you know, call enforcement right then and there and say, 386 00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:51.200 Hey, I have reason to believe this is happening. The big challenge is 387 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:53.750 there. Is it so rare that you you run into a live, real 388 00:24:53.869 --> 00:24:59.150 situation where you could report it and it could be acted on in that window, 389 00:24:59.589 --> 00:25:02.430 because police need that burden to proof. Yeah, the and then the 390 00:25:02.509 --> 00:25:06.109 other challenge will run into, even if all that happens, is again, 391 00:25:06.190 --> 00:25:07.900 if the victim isn't ready for help. Yeah, they're going to be more 392 00:25:07.940 --> 00:25:11.259 scared of their perpetrator than they are the law enforcement and they may feed law 393 00:25:11.259 --> 00:25:15.019 enforcement a bunch of lines and and then basically they'd have to be well, 394 00:25:15.019 --> 00:25:18.539 you're free to go, I guess. Yeah, everything in a way. 395 00:25:18.539 --> 00:25:21.930 It is highly complicated, right, and trying to engage well, in this 396 00:25:22.049 --> 00:25:25.210 specific situation. It I guess they could say it was here, say it 397 00:25:25.329 --> 00:25:30.490 was what she told me right month, but it was so horrific and she 398 00:25:30.650 --> 00:25:33.170 would not report it and I wondered, what's there any way I could anonymously 399 00:25:33.970 --> 00:25:40.359 reported and how while protecting her? And I didn't know what to do. 400 00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:42.839 So I did nothing. Well, and and those situations, you know, 401 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:45.759 if there was a way to get if you had another engagement with her, 402 00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:49.630 like when we do outreach weet we hand out our local hotline number, because 403 00:25:49.670 --> 00:25:52.029 what we're hoping for is, even if they're not ready right now, then 404 00:25:52.109 --> 00:25:56.509 on when they're ready or they filled that, there's a safe window and then 405 00:25:56.549 --> 00:25:59.990 they can call us and in that sense they can then serve them and get 406 00:26:00.069 --> 00:26:03.069 them out, because many of them in this lifestyle have been forced to do 407 00:26:03.619 --> 00:26:07.740 the legal activity or there's a there's a fear of police or whatever it is. 408 00:26:07.019 --> 00:26:11.579 So we can be an alternative, because we're not kicking indoors or anything 409 00:26:11.619 --> 00:26:15.380 like that. We're literally kind of a specialized taxi service for people wanted to 410 00:26:15.420 --> 00:26:18.609 exit this and we can do that as a victim atick an agency. So 411 00:26:18.970 --> 00:26:22.130 they don't they can just they can just exit. And many victims I've worked 412 00:26:22.170 --> 00:26:26.529 with it is shocked me when kind of you step back and zoom mount and 413 00:26:26.529 --> 00:26:30.970 you're going, wow, you didn't leave because you sit didn't have the simple 414 00:26:32.650 --> 00:26:37.960 resources to get away. So if you'd had even a few hundred dollars to 415 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:41.599 hire transport and immediate lodging, you maybe could have even done this yourself. 416 00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:45.559 But you didn't even have that. You didn't have you barely had clothes on 417 00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:49.150 your back. So that level of lack of resources can keep someone very trapped. 418 00:26:49.190 --> 00:26:52.910 Yeah, and and yeah. So for us, getting the hot line 419 00:26:52.910 --> 00:26:57.230 out to the right people is critical and then having our opportunity to respond to 420 00:26:57.309 --> 00:27:00.619 a situation we've been invited to. And then, yeah, for other live 421 00:27:00.700 --> 00:27:04.539 action situations that are happening in a public setting, one hundred percent get the 422 00:27:04.579 --> 00:27:10.859 police in there and it's always appropriate to take information nonetheless and still called the 423 00:27:11.220 --> 00:27:14.299 non emergency number, whoever, and just passing that on to law enforcement, 424 00:27:14.380 --> 00:27:18.170 because you never, we never can assume what active investigations they have going on. 425 00:27:18.369 --> 00:27:22.450 Yeah, and and that information from the community maybe just enough, yeah, 426 00:27:22.529 --> 00:27:25.369 to take things to the next level. So it's it's you know, 427 00:27:25.490 --> 00:27:27.250 if police are saying hey, I'm good. I mean they're going to communicate 428 00:27:27.329 --> 00:27:30.839 that to you if they feel like hey, this really isn't helpful. But 429 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:33.519 I mean, otherwise I'd basically try to pass on information when I have it 430 00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:37.240 and let them decide if it's useful. Yeah, yeah, so practically in 431 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:41.160 front of an abortion center where we're going to see, presumably the trafficker and 432 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:45.750 then the victims. And if we strongly suspected and we did call the police, 433 00:27:45.869 --> 00:27:51.829 I know in our podcast on domestic violence that that can really endanger the 434 00:27:51.910 --> 00:27:56.190 woman because she's going to be punished. So can you talk about that at 435 00:27:56.230 --> 00:28:00.259 all? It's it's that effort an issue that the trafficker will then beat the 436 00:28:00.339 --> 00:28:04.619 woman afterwards or whatever. Because, yeah, so, well, guess what 437 00:28:04.700 --> 00:28:07.980 you're saying, some kind of like the rules of engagement stuff. Yeah, 438 00:28:08.380 --> 00:28:12.329 okay's and don'ts. If we see this right, you're saying, of course, 439 00:28:12.490 --> 00:28:15.329 call law enforcement and then, of course, if you're able to get 440 00:28:15.690 --> 00:28:19.609 the hot line into their hands, get that into their hands. But as 441 00:28:19.650 --> 00:28:22.009 far as our interactions with that woman, what are some of the things that 442 00:28:22.089 --> 00:28:25.130 we should have got it? I got. Yeah, no, that's a 443 00:28:25.210 --> 00:28:29.599 really delicate one and and and to some degree most places I speak. I'd 444 00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:32.559 price. I don't, you don't. I would encourage people not to engage, 445 00:28:32.599 --> 00:28:37.000 for y'all, you're not your average street outreach individuals, volunteers. So 446 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:41.359 I wouldn't try to define what to do or not to do. I'd really 447 00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:45.230 leave that up to individuals and to where how the holy spirits moving them. 448 00:28:45.430 --> 00:28:48.430 And I'm not going to say dows or don't because, hey, there's no 449 00:28:48.789 --> 00:28:51.789 exact playbook for some of the stuff. But I am glad to hear the 450 00:28:51.910 --> 00:28:56.380 cock. Our cognisant of some outreach can put victims at risk and that's why 451 00:28:56.500 --> 00:29:00.579 when we do ours, we try to be very clandestine about it, because 452 00:29:00.380 --> 00:29:03.380 what you don't want to do, we like a matter of fact, good 453 00:29:03.420 --> 00:29:06.619 example, we used to do street outreach. We used to like literally go 454 00:29:06.900 --> 00:29:10.130 out to where girls were walking, you know, the track, and engage 455 00:29:10.130 --> 00:29:11.170 them on the street and just, you know, hand them a card. 456 00:29:11.250 --> 00:29:14.569 You know, hey if you want to help. But but we saw that 457 00:29:14.849 --> 00:29:18.849 there's actually some risk there of the trafficker who's two hundred yards away and an 458 00:29:18.890 --> 00:29:22.250 Asu v than saying what was that about? You know, would you tell 459 00:29:22.289 --> 00:29:26.039 them, you know, unnecessarily bothering her and then even at Thomas we were 460 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:27.480 like, okay, well, we could discreetly hand it to her while driving 461 00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:30.519 by, you know. But we just got to a point where it wasn't 462 00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:36.160 very effective, like we almost never had anyone leave right then and we had 463 00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:40.349 other other effective measures that that seem to be a lot more productive. I 464 00:29:40.390 --> 00:29:41.750 won't go into what those are, but, but, but that seemed to 465 00:29:41.789 --> 00:29:45.589 have been working better. So we kind of backed off from street outreach specifically, 466 00:29:45.630 --> 00:29:51.309 yeah, because it was the bigger risk with less response. Yeah, 467 00:29:52.190 --> 00:29:55.900 so same, same type thing. I would whatever that looks like, you 468 00:29:56.019 --> 00:29:57.220 know, for you guys or for other are groups that are may be listening, 469 00:29:57.740 --> 00:30:02.299 keep that in mind the way in which you engage, assume you're being 470 00:30:02.380 --> 00:30:06.180 watched and try to do not do things that could put more pressure on her, 471 00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:10.009 and it could be as simple as coming up with an excuse for your 472 00:30:10.049 --> 00:30:14.089 engagement other than providing services so that she has something to report back. Oh, 473 00:30:14.130 --> 00:30:17.210 they they were just asking me if I wanted to do adoption or what, 474 00:30:17.289 --> 00:30:18.849 you know, whatever it is, and just only talk about that, 475 00:30:19.009 --> 00:30:23.880 you know. But it's it is a challenge because we have it has to 476 00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:26.480 be some level, you know, of engagement. We can't just say, 477 00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:30.279 well, I hope they google this one day, yeah, which, fortunately 478 00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:33.319 they might. You know I mean, I know you'll have seen that. 479 00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:37.710 I mean search engine optimizations a positive thing in this modern context, absolutely so 480 00:30:37.789 --> 00:30:40.670 that people with they have that moment to do a quick look online. We 481 00:30:40.750 --> 00:30:44.630 want to be up high where they could, they could find us. But 482 00:30:44.710 --> 00:30:48.069 it is a balance and and rules of engagement. You know, in many 483 00:30:48.109 --> 00:30:49.740 ways the good news is we're in America where we're free to talk to people, 484 00:30:49.900 --> 00:30:52.339 you know, and we don't have to walk around fearful of it. 485 00:30:52.700 --> 00:30:56.180 So I would really think in context that we just have to be careful that 486 00:30:56.259 --> 00:30:59.700 we're not putting someone in a bad position. Right, yeah, right, 487 00:31:00.140 --> 00:31:06.609 because even offering the resources he's going to perceive as a threat to his control 488 00:31:06.650 --> 00:31:10.250 over that woman because he was under so have that abortion and not talk to 489 00:31:10.329 --> 00:31:14.450 people about housing or whatever. Oh, yes, and I'm sure you've experienced 490 00:31:14.450 --> 00:31:17.650 it. I'm sure you've had it where you were doing street outreach and the 491 00:31:17.809 --> 00:31:21.000 man bringing the lady in tried to intimidate you all. I mean, I'm 492 00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:22.960 for you. I'm sure you've had dozens of those cases. Like I'm tough 493 00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:26.359 and the reality is a right doesn't work that well, because you're like, 494 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:29.400 I'm I'm not here for you, Buddy. I'm praying for you, but 495 00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:33.230 I'm concerned about that baby, yeah, and her belly right now. Let's 496 00:31:33.230 --> 00:31:36.509 say best case scenario, we somehow get that woman alone. She does, 497 00:31:36.630 --> 00:31:38.789 somehow he's gone away or whatever, and we're able to talk with her. 498 00:31:38.869 --> 00:31:44.670 What are the resources that you offer? Sure, so we do our best 499 00:31:44.910 --> 00:31:49.700 to offer immediate shelter. Okay. So we have a setup where we try 500 00:31:49.740 --> 00:31:55.619 to have a response time that is literally within hours of Oh really, it's 501 00:31:55.660 --> 00:31:59.420 not always possible because, again, we are recovering north and South Carolina. 502 00:31:59.500 --> 00:32:01.809 Okay, we're a small grass roots team. Anyone out there listening to lists 503 00:32:01.849 --> 00:32:06.650 to help? We need your money in really bad like we need the financial 504 00:32:06.769 --> 00:32:09.849 support. So, because we're very much like a volunteer firefighter department that's covering 505 00:32:09.849 --> 00:32:15.880 a two state territory, right. So I'm getting calls that are sometimes spreading 506 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:19.359 you really thin. Yeah, and you have existing clients that also need your 507 00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:22.519 help. So, with all that said, when we get a hotline call, 508 00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:27.400 our goal would be to be able to get to that survivor within threehour 509 00:32:27.559 --> 00:32:30.150 window. You know, and then and then get them set up with some 510 00:32:30.230 --> 00:32:32.829 immediate shelter and immediate resources to really have that clean break. Yeah, you 511 00:32:32.950 --> 00:32:37.390 know, it's kind of like, you know, when you're dealing with safe 512 00:32:37.430 --> 00:32:39.269 houses, you have to almost think like a virologist, you know, and 513 00:32:39.829 --> 00:32:44.299 not cross contaminating. You have to kind of a clean break from your active 514 00:32:44.299 --> 00:32:49.099 situation get you at a safe housing situation that's separate and on its own to 515 00:32:49.180 --> 00:32:52.180 assess and be that emergency time period until you can find the long term housing 516 00:32:52.420 --> 00:32:57.019 that we then transition them to, because we don't just pick people up and 517 00:32:57.059 --> 00:32:59.809 I'll take them to the same house, because that would be crazy. Right 518 00:32:59.890 --> 00:33:02.009 now, if it's a setup or it's fake, you just exposed a secure 519 00:33:02.130 --> 00:33:07.609 location. Yeah, so it's multifaceted and how we do the immediate housing, 520 00:33:07.890 --> 00:33:10.089 but that's something we try to do. It a quick response. Honestly, 521 00:33:10.130 --> 00:33:15.240 during covid that's been a little more complicated because of the the health issues there, 522 00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:21.319 and then even some of our housing has been limited because they're like, 523 00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:23.240 oh, is this a quarantine situation? Are What is like no, no, 524 00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:28.349 it's not. You know. So it's complex but in general, on 525 00:33:28.430 --> 00:33:30.710 a regular all systems go, we try to respond within hours of the call 526 00:33:31.029 --> 00:33:37.589 and get them immediate separation from the situation and and immediate safety and basic resources. 527 00:33:37.829 --> 00:33:39.309 Yeah, and do you kind of take over from there then? Also 528 00:33:39.349 --> 00:33:43.339 in terms of okay, they've been in the sex trade now for a while, 529 00:33:43.460 --> 00:33:46.059 they need work. Oh, yeah, job and whatever. So it 530 00:33:46.819 --> 00:33:50.859 or some do you hand them off to another agency or how does it work? 531 00:33:50.980 --> 00:33:54.019 So, yeah, I'll define it this way. So basically have four 532 00:33:54.099 --> 00:33:58.329 areas. You have outreach, which is just engaging the at risk population and 533 00:33:58.450 --> 00:34:00.730 which I would be a part of in this. Then you have emergency housing, 534 00:34:00.849 --> 00:34:05.369 emergent care, and that can be the first three days to the first 535 00:34:05.410 --> 00:34:07.329 three months. I mean we'll have someone set up for sometimes three months before 536 00:34:07.329 --> 00:34:13.119 we transition them. If there's limited availability. There's there's still only thousand plus 537 00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:15.719 bed space across the country for designated for sex traffick. Yeah, it's a 538 00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:19.440 drop in the bucket. So we always have to get creative and outside of 539 00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:24.190 the specified sex trafficking bed space. That's a common thing. So that's the 540 00:34:24.269 --> 00:34:29.510 emergent care and then what I call program care is when you send them to 541 00:34:29.590 --> 00:34:34.309 a woman's home or a housing program. That could be up to twelve months 542 00:34:34.750 --> 00:34:37.110 is the idea, and there they're getting more comprehensive care and going through some 543 00:34:37.150 --> 00:34:42.260 counseling and healing and then you kind of graduate that and then transition to independent 544 00:34:42.340 --> 00:34:45.539 living. And then that's what I call transitional care. So you have outreach, 545 00:34:45.699 --> 00:34:50.139 emergent care, program care, transitional care and when we do a little 546 00:34:50.139 --> 00:34:52.929 bit of all of it. We have one home for program care that stays 547 00:34:53.449 --> 00:34:57.530 fairly occupied. Yeah, right now it's about three quarters full, but we 548 00:34:57.610 --> 00:35:00.250 work with groups all across the country that they do have those kind of houses. 549 00:35:00.329 --> 00:35:04.849 Yeah, from West Coast to Texas you know, to Caroline's all over. 550 00:35:05.050 --> 00:35:07.480 Yeah, and and unfortunately so many of them do stay full. The 551 00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:09.920 ones that are run well, they stayed full. I mean the as Y'all 552 00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:13.800 know, there's a lot of need. So there is room to expand in 553 00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:17.840 that topic especially. So where we have focused a lot of our energy is 554 00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:21.510 on the emergent side. We found you got to get them out first. 555 00:35:21.550 --> 00:35:23.949 If nothing else, helping them get away and get safe and put them on 556 00:35:24.030 --> 00:35:28.230 our direction is better than nothing. So we put a lot of energy there. 557 00:35:28.829 --> 00:35:30.630 We use our safe houls and then we work with others across the country 558 00:35:30.670 --> 00:35:34.469 for long term care. And then we also put a great deal of energy 559 00:35:34.550 --> 00:35:38.219 on the transitional because what so often would happen is someone completes a program, 560 00:35:38.460 --> 00:35:42.980 they've been out for a year, it's been going great, but they've also 561 00:35:43.019 --> 00:35:45.860 been living in this kind of not real life situation because they're having all this 562 00:35:45.940 --> 00:35:50.289 support. Yeah, and no rent and don't have a grocery bill or anything 563 00:35:50.329 --> 00:35:52.329 like that. Yeah, and then all of a sudden you're supposed to be 564 00:35:52.409 --> 00:35:54.849 better now and just go make it, and so many can fall right back 565 00:35:54.849 --> 00:35:59.010 into this or something similar, and we don't want that to happen. So 566 00:35:59.449 --> 00:36:02.610 we put a lot of our effort on transitional care, and that's helping with 567 00:36:02.929 --> 00:36:07.559 rent assistance. Or your car broke down and we're going to help you get 568 00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:08.800 it back on the road because you got to keep the car seat and keep 569 00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:12.559 your job and get your kids the child care and you know all those things. 570 00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:15.280 We do do what we can to assist with work placement or at least 571 00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:20.909 completing education through a ged or community college, and then we also assist with 572 00:36:21.070 --> 00:36:23.469 child care expenses as well, where we can what we have budgeted. I 573 00:36:23.510 --> 00:36:27.710 mean, again, we're small budget but we try to make those things a 574 00:36:27.829 --> 00:36:30.590 priority because the the individual who's a year and a half out and just trying 575 00:36:30.590 --> 00:36:34.460 to get on their feet is just as important and we don't want them to 576 00:36:34.579 --> 00:36:37.699 fall right back into it and be someone who's going to call again because we 577 00:36:37.820 --> 00:36:40.380 didn't see it through. It's so we do our best to do that. 578 00:36:40.659 --> 00:36:46.019 But that's another area where we can invite the local church into it more. 579 00:36:46.019 --> 00:36:50.130 I mean we just see ourselves as an arm of the church and a lot 580 00:36:50.170 --> 00:36:54.130 of our team are pastor's wives and things like that. But but at that 581 00:36:54.329 --> 00:37:00.599 level of volunteerism is is a unique opportunity for just the everyday volunteer who says 582 00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:02.519 I want to help somehow. Will Great. Maybe you could be kind of 583 00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:07.559 a mentor for the other individual who who just has some like life navigating questions 584 00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.280 not so much. Helped me work out my trauma questions, which you don't 585 00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:14.519 you don't need to need as much training for that. So that that's that's 586 00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:16.750 where we put our energies, on the emergent and on the transitional. But 587 00:37:17.070 --> 00:37:20.949 even I mean right now the program house we have, I mean it's costing 588 00:37:20.989 --> 00:37:23.309 us about eight thousand dollars a month to run that. Wow. So if 589 00:37:23.909 --> 00:37:28.230 anyone wants to help us and get started. We're we actually had a donor 590 00:37:28.269 --> 00:37:30.900 that was supporting that. They won't be able to continue with that. So 591 00:37:30.019 --> 00:37:34.980 we're now fundraising for that, specifically in trying to get a recurring eight thousand 592 00:37:34.980 --> 00:37:37.460 a month to keep the safe house fully funded and its own thing and and 593 00:37:38.219 --> 00:37:43.219 keep that running smooth. Are Those women that are just in the Charlotte area? 594 00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:45.170 Are you drawing women from all over, all over country, fall over 595 00:37:45.250 --> 00:37:50.130 that safe housing corre? Yeah, all over the yeah, wow. Yeah, 596 00:37:50.170 --> 00:37:52.969 it's interesting in that sense. And and so many of the clients we 597 00:37:52.050 --> 00:37:55.449 do serve in the Charlotte area in end up going out of state. We 598 00:37:55.530 --> 00:37:58.800 had many, many that want I just they want to get away, which 599 00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:00.599 makes sense. And Yeah, it's not a bad plan. And once, 600 00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:04.800 once that does happen. To answer your earlier question, there is kind of 601 00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:07.559 a passing of the baton. At that point. We've done our peace and 602 00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:10.239 once we place them with a group in Arizona for now our jobs done, 603 00:38:10.280 --> 00:38:14.429 unless they need to call us back. Right. Yeah, how how often 604 00:38:14.510 --> 00:38:19.190 do they just return to the same lifestyle or once? The success rate, 605 00:38:19.230 --> 00:38:22.110 I guess, of the yeah, of once you get them out of the 606 00:38:22.230 --> 00:38:24.429 situation, do most of them make it. I don't have the active numbers. 607 00:38:25.150 --> 00:38:29.900 In the earlier years I was able to track it a little more and 608 00:38:30.139 --> 00:38:35.260 I felt like it was thirty five forty percent would fall back into Instana, 609 00:38:35.300 --> 00:38:38.059 collect into it, okay, or fall back into some kind of exploitive context. 610 00:38:38.380 --> 00:38:43.809 But one positive is we'd have many of them call us again. Yeah, 611 00:38:43.889 --> 00:38:46.449 and then there was an opportunity to to serve that individual second time in. 612 00:38:46.889 --> 00:38:50.210 And you know, we're the doors are open if you want help, 613 00:38:50.409 --> 00:38:53.690 and it's not. Obviously you adapt it each time because you know we don't 614 00:38:53.690 --> 00:38:57.360 want to enable or anything. But but yeah, certainly you made a mistake, 615 00:38:57.519 --> 00:38:59.559 don't we all? That's that's what it's supposed to look like. We 616 00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:01.679 were supposed to be there for him. So earlier on it was. That's 617 00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:06.639 the numbers I were seeing. Right now, I honestly don't have clear numbers 618 00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:10.789 because so many of the victims in recent years we've served, we have helped 619 00:39:10.829 --> 00:39:15.389 them to the next phase and then our job was done. And if they 620 00:39:15.429 --> 00:39:17.389 change phone numbers six months later, I have no way of engaging them, 621 00:39:17.710 --> 00:39:22.030 and so I really don't know. You know, and then that's okay. 622 00:39:22.110 --> 00:39:24.699 You know, it's not I mean we're the stance of call us if you 623 00:39:24.739 --> 00:39:28.860 need us kind of thing. But just because I haven't heard from somebody doesn't 624 00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:31.139 mean I assume they fallen back into it. So I don't know that it's 625 00:39:31.179 --> 00:39:35.300 I'm really hoping it's not that high as it seemed in the earlier years. 626 00:39:37.059 --> 00:39:40.130 So and the other benefit we're dealing with is there more houses than there used 627 00:39:40.130 --> 00:39:45.969 to be a back when I started, I think there was only six hundred 628 00:39:45.010 --> 00:39:50.489 beds nationwide for trafficking. No, no, I'd take that back. In 629 00:39:50.570 --> 00:39:53.760 two thousand and ten there was only one hundred beds nationwide designated for sex trafficking 630 00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:58.239 survivors. And around two thousand and fourteen, which is when I was reflecting 631 00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:00.880 on the is at forty percent. You know, I it was I think 632 00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:05.719 there was around six hundred and now probably closer to a thousand. Are More, 633 00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:07.389 you know, I you lose track because Agen she's come up and go 634 00:40:07.510 --> 00:40:12.349 on to every day. But we're in a much better position, you know, 635 00:40:12.429 --> 00:40:15.550 then we were ten years ago at is as a country when it comes 636 00:40:15.590 --> 00:40:20.190 to resources. Yeah, what are we looking at as far as statistically, 637 00:40:20.389 --> 00:40:22.940 nationally, how many of these? I mean, I know it's hard to 638 00:40:23.059 --> 00:40:27.260 gaze. Sure, sure, sort of these shot in the dark estimates, 639 00:40:27.340 --> 00:40:30.619 but what are the estimates of how many women are trafficked every year? Yeah, 640 00:40:30.659 --> 00:40:35.769 and and all of that. Yeah, it's I mean hundreds of thousands. 641 00:40:35.849 --> 00:40:38.650 I mean I can say that. I wouldn't try to speculate on numbers. 642 00:40:39.050 --> 00:40:45.090 And internationally it's we're talking thirty to forty million, right, you know, 643 00:40:45.289 --> 00:40:49.610 type thing people called in human trafficking. In terms of state side, 644 00:40:49.650 --> 00:40:52.039 even back in two thousand and ten, when I was starting, the State 645 00:40:52.159 --> 00:41:00.760 Department said there was risk of one hundred to three hundred thousand children being trafficked 646 00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:04.469 in the US every year. Wow, so that was ten years ago and 647 00:41:04.550 --> 00:41:07.429 they were had a hundred to three hundred thousand estimate annually. Yeah, so 648 00:41:07.510 --> 00:41:12.190 I was like wow, that's crazy and that's just kids. So we can 649 00:41:12.230 --> 00:41:14.989 assume it's actually probably higher than that. And we can assume as it relates 650 00:41:14.989 --> 00:41:19.980 to adults and and every demographic, you're dealing with hundreds of thousands of people. 651 00:41:20.300 --> 00:41:22.340 The other thing we have going on to your point earlier, the most 652 00:41:22.380 --> 00:41:25.619 of our clients are US citizens. We do have some that are foreign national 653 00:41:25.980 --> 00:41:30.780 and I've done some work down to the border doing trafficking assessments. I briefly 654 00:41:30.940 --> 00:41:35.489 was was contracting with Samaritans first last summer just to assist with some some trafficking 655 00:41:35.489 --> 00:41:39.769 assessments down there. And and man, we we we have a huge risk 656 00:41:40.250 --> 00:41:44.769 of people that are even coming through and have their court date and things like 657 00:41:44.849 --> 00:41:46.639 that, that are that are have been tagged, that there's still such a 658 00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:52.639 potential risk of them being exploded just due to basic vulnerabilities of yeah, I 659 00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:54.920 know the language. I can't work right now. I'm kind of dependent on 660 00:41:55.039 --> 00:42:00.599 my sponsor. Even those that assists are seeking asylum and were granted temporary asylum, 661 00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:02.909 like, even those are at risk, much less those that have gotten 662 00:42:02.949 --> 00:42:06.989 in and are not documented at all. I mean, so certainly they're not 663 00:42:07.070 --> 00:42:09.630 calling the police or anything if someone finds them and decides to exploit them. 664 00:42:10.070 --> 00:42:15.579 So you have, you have a lot of potential risk of foreign nationals being 665 00:42:15.699 --> 00:42:20.940 trafficked through the the cartel's just just doing it to an organized crime sense, 666 00:42:21.219 --> 00:42:23.340 or even those that have made their way here, you know, whether they're, 667 00:42:23.659 --> 00:42:27.820 you know, having asylum or not, they're still a potentially at rest 668 00:42:27.860 --> 00:42:30.610 for being manipulated. Yeah, and and that's that. That is just a 669 00:42:30.889 --> 00:42:37.050 administrative item that would be so tough to try to analyze and get a handle 670 00:42:37.130 --> 00:42:39.530 on, like how big is that possibly? So I think a lot of 671 00:42:39.610 --> 00:42:44.400 that's even further underground. But it again, I mean, I think again. 672 00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:47.519 My main message is it's it's way bigger than people think, and I 673 00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:52.920 think sometimes it surprises me occasionally on social media or whatnot. Is like when 674 00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:54.840 you hear about a case and people are like, well, I can't believe 675 00:42:54.880 --> 00:42:58.710 this, and I'm like yeah, that's terrible, but guys, it's way 676 00:42:58.789 --> 00:43:00.389 bigger than that, you know, and just like having an every day. 677 00:43:00.469 --> 00:43:06.070 Now one situation here's going missing daily and you're just dealing with massive numbers of 678 00:43:06.190 --> 00:43:09.309 people that otherwise you wouldn't really be aware of it. Yeah, I know 679 00:43:09.510 --> 00:43:14.619 some folks, at least that I see on social media is almost like this 680 00:43:14.739 --> 00:43:17.139 is a conspiracy theory. Yeah, it's really not happening. You people are 681 00:43:17.179 --> 00:43:22.179 saying it's happening, but the real numbers are there, you can really find 682 00:43:22.219 --> 00:43:25.739 out this is. This is not just some conspiracy that it's happening. It's 683 00:43:25.820 --> 00:43:30.050 conspiracy for sure, but it's not just a conspiracy theory. Yeah, it's 684 00:43:30.090 --> 00:43:34.210 happening. You know, people are being exploited, children are being exploited and, 685 00:43:34.769 --> 00:43:38.409 from what you're saying, abortion, as far as the way these issues 686 00:43:38.530 --> 00:43:44.079 tied together, is used as a cover up. Yeah, a manipulation device 687 00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:47.440 and other things that we really need to be on the lookout for. Those 688 00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:51.719 your minister in front of an abortion center. Absolutely. Yeah, and I 689 00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:53.960 think for the listeners I would throw something out that may help provide some context. 690 00:43:54.079 --> 00:44:00.070 I think very often it's easy to say we have to have a mindset 691 00:44:00.150 --> 00:44:02.349 shift, you know, and well, what is what a sex trafficking look 692 00:44:02.389 --> 00:44:06.469 like? Because it's it's easy to even drive down a sugar creek or wherever 693 00:44:06.510 --> 00:44:09.300 and say, all that's just some my prostitute. You know, maybe, 694 00:44:10.139 --> 00:44:14.420 and it might be. However, there's a lot of things that could look 695 00:44:14.420 --> 00:44:16.739 like prostitution or look like you're working for yourself, where you're actually not. 696 00:44:17.059 --> 00:44:20.820 Yeah, a lot of the individuals we've served, a lot of the young 697 00:44:20.860 --> 00:44:22.940 ladies we've assisted, if you just met him on the street or at an 698 00:44:23.019 --> 00:44:27.090 eleven or whatever you may be, wouldn't a thought much of it. Yeah, 699 00:44:27.170 --> 00:44:29.530 and even if you to your point, if you'd ask them directly, 700 00:44:29.570 --> 00:44:30.449 that may say no, I'm fine, get out of my face and cut 701 00:44:30.489 --> 00:44:34.809 you out a little bitute. So it's we have this image of like some 702 00:44:34.969 --> 00:44:37.050 twelve year old Asian, you know, girl in a cage somewhere, and 703 00:44:37.090 --> 00:44:40.360 that's human trafficking and it and it is right and that that is that is 704 00:44:40.360 --> 00:44:45.559 very real and very massive concern and that's that's part of it. But it 705 00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:49.079 also can kind of be right under your nose. Yeah, and we could 706 00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:51.679 even see it and write it off as and why want they get their act 707 00:44:51.719 --> 00:44:53.670 together, right? We don't know that there actually is a pimp that is 708 00:44:53.750 --> 00:44:58.789 controlling them and unfortunately she actually sees him as Kinind of a boyfriend. So 709 00:44:58.989 --> 00:45:02.510 it's really messy. Yeah, but nonetheless he's having her sleep with multiple people 710 00:45:02.550 --> 00:45:07.300 to night and he's keeping the money right like. So that is sex trafficking 711 00:45:07.579 --> 00:45:12.019 and it's so I think sometimes the reason we are shocked by the numbers is 712 00:45:12.659 --> 00:45:15.019 we aren't including that. There's a lot of those cases that may not look 713 00:45:15.019 --> 00:45:19.019 like what in our mind it would look like, but it actually is playing 714 00:45:19.059 --> 00:45:22.769 out. Are there may be some questions that we could ask if we do 715 00:45:22.010 --> 00:45:27.449 happen to get them alone, that would reveal to us what's going on. 716 00:45:28.130 --> 00:45:35.960 Maybe if they're hesitant at first, to reveal it really obviously for me what 717 00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:37.559 is what has been beneficial, because, I mean, here's the thing. 718 00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:42.480 In our modern twenty twenty context, a stranger walking up and wanting to help, 719 00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:44.440 it's going to freak a lot of people out. And, yeah, 720 00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:46.320 you know they're going to say, what is your angle? Yeah, and 721 00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:50.710 and and fair enough. I mean I've had so many of our clients tell 722 00:45:50.710 --> 00:45:52.829 me and one time or another, wow, you're the first man I've dealt 723 00:45:52.869 --> 00:45:57.949 with in years that didn't want anything from me right now. And like even 724 00:45:58.030 --> 00:46:00.829 to the point where a new client sometimes will say, say we get them 725 00:46:00.869 --> 00:46:04.269 set up with some stuff and bring them groceries, and whenever they'll say, 726 00:46:04.340 --> 00:46:06.380 I'll find a way to pay you back, and I go, let me 727 00:46:06.579 --> 00:46:09.539 clarify, like, there's no payback here right. Yeah, you think us 728 00:46:09.780 --> 00:46:14.219 by getting getting better and get the help that we're trying to offer. And 729 00:46:14.579 --> 00:46:17.849 but like even the idea that we legitimately want to help and there's no strings 730 00:46:17.889 --> 00:46:22.570 attached. On the flip side, I've often thought, how bad does your 731 00:46:22.610 --> 00:46:28.929 situation have to be when you're willing to get into a van with strangers three 732 00:46:29.010 --> 00:46:30.409 am off the side of the road. Yeah, you got to say, 733 00:46:30.449 --> 00:46:34.599 anything's better than what I'm doing with you know. I mean it's a gutsy 734 00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:37.400 move on their part. But so, yeah, to your point, I 735 00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:40.199 think we have to go on with the understanding that they're not going to assume 736 00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:45.480 there's no strings attached. They're also going to assume you can't handle what I'm 737 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:47.590 going through. And sometimes there's even a testing period of like I'm going to 738 00:46:47.670 --> 00:46:51.349 cut you out, I'm going to be difficult because I'm going to see if 739 00:46:51.389 --> 00:46:53.789 you're for real, if you really just love me for me, or if 740 00:46:53.829 --> 00:46:57.789 you know you're trying to meet a quota or you know, whatever it is. 741 00:46:58.190 --> 00:47:00.030 And and and that's that's kind of the thing. It just just saying, 742 00:47:00.030 --> 00:47:02.699 Hey, we're just here to help, no strings attached. Test us 743 00:47:02.780 --> 00:47:06.139 on that. Yeah, I mean it's like if try give me, give 744 00:47:06.139 --> 00:47:07.500 it a shot, you don't want it. And I've even I've even had 745 00:47:07.539 --> 00:47:10.739 to clarify that with those that we have helped in an emergency context remove and 746 00:47:10.780 --> 00:47:14.179 get them placed and get them set up. I say, Hey, I 747 00:47:14.219 --> 00:47:15.769 would be really clear, like, especially if they're over eighteen, I say 748 00:47:15.809 --> 00:47:19.210 you're not a prisoner here. If it's some point you just want to go 749 00:47:19.489 --> 00:47:22.929 like you you can. The only thing I'll ask is you can't tell anybody 750 00:47:22.929 --> 00:47:27.170 where this location is and you can't in bite people over here. But you 751 00:47:27.289 --> 00:47:29.369 are not trapped. Now, if you feel like you're about to go, 752 00:47:29.889 --> 00:47:32.400 please call us first and let us help you on that journey. But you 753 00:47:32.599 --> 00:47:37.199 are not stuck. Everything we're offering is free, and I know that sounds 754 00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:38.920 crazy because nothing's free, right, but but it is, you know, 755 00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:43.079 and we just truly want to help you. So I really almost helping them 756 00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:46.590 see that there's that they're not stuck, that, yeah, they have some 757 00:47:46.750 --> 00:47:50.590 power here, and I and that. That's the crazy shift. Can you 758 00:47:50.630 --> 00:47:52.429 imagine going from a situation for, say, the past three years, you 759 00:47:52.469 --> 00:47:57.349 couldn't even decide what you ate or when you ate right or when you slept 760 00:47:57.389 --> 00:48:04.099 right, and then now these random church people in our saying hey, what 761 00:48:04.179 --> 00:48:07.059 do you what even taste for? What can we pick you up? You 762 00:48:07.099 --> 00:48:08.219 know what says jeans, you are you know. It was like, what 763 00:48:08.380 --> 00:48:12.219 are you talking about? It could be a very far and like what? 764 00:48:12.460 --> 00:48:14.289 Who? WHOA? WHOA, Whoa, you know, what are you gonna 765 00:48:14.289 --> 00:48:15.289 make me? Do you know what? He's signing me up for. Nothing. 766 00:48:15.570 --> 00:48:20.690 We're just here to help and and again. Wow, what a great 767 00:48:20.730 --> 00:48:22.929 context when they say, well, why are you doing this? Right, 768 00:48:22.969 --> 00:48:24.489 well, that gives you the opportunity. I was just going to ask our 769 00:48:24.530 --> 00:48:27.639 do you do you share the gods? Yes, and a party. You 770 00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:29.880 get, you get. Didn't say. I'm so glad you asked. Right 771 00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:31.719 exactly. There's this Guy Jesus. He's the son of God, the Savior 772 00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:35.719 of the world, and I loves you and he's the one that said coming 773 00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:39.079 get you. So if you if you don't like what we're offer and take 774 00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:42.829 it up with him. It's like but, but Jesus loves you and we 775 00:48:42.949 --> 00:48:45.110 love you, and this is a way we can show our love towards Jesus 776 00:48:45.150 --> 00:48:46.510 by caring for you. Yeah, and are you seeing people coming to the 777 00:48:46.590 --> 00:48:50.869 Lord too? We do. And and you know what else is also fascinated 778 00:48:50.909 --> 00:48:55.260 me. How many have actually they do. It may be kind of hidden 779 00:48:55.260 --> 00:48:59.699 under the debris, but like somebody them even have some relationship with Christ. 780 00:48:59.699 --> 00:49:01.579 That's share did is they are. Yeah, and then there's that opportunity to 781 00:49:01.860 --> 00:49:06.300 really just bring them, help them come back to intimacy with the Lord. 782 00:49:06.300 --> 00:49:08.420 Yeah, it's it's not. Sometimes it's a WHO's Jesus, but but a 783 00:49:08.500 --> 00:49:12.289 lot of times it's a yeah, now I know he's out there and it's 784 00:49:12.289 --> 00:49:15.969 just then our opportunity as brothers and sisters to then kind of just just lead 785 00:49:15.010 --> 00:49:17.889 them back to him and and then then then it really makes sense. And 786 00:49:19.090 --> 00:49:22.130 then I think the other important thing for groups like us to do is to 787 00:49:22.250 --> 00:49:24.599 see everything we're providing. Again, it's not me. The different bes between 788 00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:29.119 the Good Samaritan and US is gets mad and paid for it off his dial 789 00:49:29.519 --> 00:49:31.239 is in my money that this is coming from the church and from donors, 790 00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:35.360 and this is coming from this is ultimately all the Lords. I mean we 791 00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:38.909 all know it's all the Lords and we're just trying to take resources and put 792 00:49:38.949 --> 00:49:43.750 it into those that have need. But now that that is the funniest thing. 793 00:49:43.789 --> 00:49:45.469 In fact, when I've when I've had secular groups try to have us 794 00:49:45.510 --> 00:49:49.110 in a gatcha moment. So you're just trying to prosplitize. You try to 795 00:49:49.110 --> 00:49:52.670 do this, I'm going actually, we're just registered as a charity, but 796 00:49:52.789 --> 00:49:54.900 I say the reality is, would that be so bad? But but secondly, 797 00:49:55.059 --> 00:50:00.340 even still almost, I mean ninety nine percent of the time it's the 798 00:50:00.420 --> 00:50:04.820 survivors that bring up anything about spirituality or why we're here, even before we 799 00:50:05.179 --> 00:50:07.889 need to, because it does come to mind. Why are you here? 800 00:50:07.010 --> 00:50:10.969 What is prompting this action? Well, Jesus Christ, that that's why we're 801 00:50:10.969 --> 00:50:15.289 here. Yeah, he mad. Well, mark, we're going to wrap 802 00:50:15.369 --> 00:50:16.610 this thing up and just a minute, man, but I really appreciate you 803 00:50:16.690 --> 00:50:22.159 coming on and the thing talking about all this. But before we wrap this 804 00:50:22.239 --> 00:50:25.119 up, is there a story or something you can share just in a situation 805 00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:30.039 you've been involved in or justice ministries has been involved in that would encourage folks? 806 00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:34.079 Sure, yeah, man, there's there's so many. So yeah, 807 00:50:34.119 --> 00:50:38.469 I have one in mind and she's got she's got some some children and is 808 00:50:38.550 --> 00:50:44.469 doing well now, but she just recently reached out and she's been out a 809 00:50:44.630 --> 00:50:49.190 long time. She's doing fine, but you know, she was just saying, 810 00:50:49.230 --> 00:50:52.579 Hey, is there, is there anything I can do to help what's 811 00:50:52.579 --> 00:50:55.659 going on and help support the ministry, and she even offered to like do 812 00:50:55.780 --> 00:50:59.900 some paintings and then things like that to see if like there's something you could 813 00:50:59.900 --> 00:51:00.780 auction off or whatever, which was hey, if you want to do that, 814 00:51:00.860 --> 00:51:05.769 that's amazing. It's super kind. But just seeing that healing that does 815 00:51:05.889 --> 00:51:10.809 take place, that in the support that is able to be provided that's able 816 00:51:10.889 --> 00:51:15.250 to help her not be in a place of necessarily survival mode years out. 817 00:51:15.489 --> 00:51:20.000 Yeah, but like because of that continued transitional care, she's at a place 818 00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:23.079 where where her mindsets going to how can I help that the next generation? 819 00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:27.559 How can I be there for the other girls? And she's going I'm kind 820 00:51:27.559 --> 00:51:29.679 of stay at home mom. I don't have a lot I can do right 821 00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:31.239 now. But like, can I draw them? Can I draw pictures? 822 00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:34.789 Got To do a craft, got to do anything that would be be useful 823 00:51:35.190 --> 00:51:38.989 and and I that's really an encouragement to me to see that it's not this 824 00:51:39.190 --> 00:51:44.309 idea of well, I'm a victim and that's what I am. A victim 825 00:51:44.389 --> 00:51:46.940 status is temporary. Yeah, like and if for anyone listening it's been through 826 00:51:46.980 --> 00:51:51.860 that kind of stuff, there's nothing innately wrong about being victimized. It had 827 00:51:51.980 --> 00:51:53.739 nothing to do with you. I mean, even if you made some poor 828 00:51:53.780 --> 00:51:57.420 decisions that led to that, still not your fault. We all make poor 829 00:51:57.460 --> 00:52:00.730 decisions every single day, like it just it happened to you and there's nothing 830 00:52:00.730 --> 00:52:04.690 wrong with the individuals caught up in this. There's something wrong with what happened 831 00:52:04.690 --> 00:52:07.730 to them. Yeah, even still if you have been victimized, if you 832 00:52:07.769 --> 00:52:10.769 are going through that situation, it is okay to receive help. We all 833 00:52:10.849 --> 00:52:15.880 need it. Everyone needs help from time to time, and but that does 834 00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:20.199 not define you. That's not where your identity is. And moving forward, 835 00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:23.760 if there's any responsibility, it is to say, okay, now that I've 836 00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:28.639 gotten the help I need, I'm healthy again. Are Healthy for the first 837 00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:30.909 time. Okay, great, it's been certainly if you're a believer. Okay, 838 00:52:31.070 --> 00:52:35.150 now go out and serve your neighbor. Yeah, you know if I 839 00:52:35.230 --> 00:52:37.590 have any action outem for them, kind of like I told the other girls, 840 00:52:37.710 --> 00:52:39.269 no need to pay back, but hey, if you want to help, 841 00:52:39.550 --> 00:52:43.150 then help help the next person. And that's really the whole point, 842 00:52:43.190 --> 00:52:45.380 because at the end of the day, it's not about being a sex trafficking 843 00:52:45.420 --> 00:52:47.340 victim or this or this or this. It's all just image bearers of God. 844 00:52:47.539 --> 00:52:52.059 We're just people, were brothers and sisters that are all messed up, 845 00:52:52.420 --> 00:52:54.739 but we've got a, you know, perfect father and we've got the perfect 846 00:52:54.739 --> 00:52:59.210 savior in Jesus, and we can, we can now move forward with life 847 00:52:59.530 --> 00:53:02.489 with a light burden because he carries us through it. And and then so 848 00:53:02.610 --> 00:53:06.090 that that's that's my message. The enemy and then the world wants us to 849 00:53:06.130 --> 00:53:07.889 stay in some kind of label of like you're this, you're this, that, 850 00:53:07.929 --> 00:53:13.079 you you are your past. It Ain't aboudy yesterday. It's about where 851 00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:15.559 you're at today, from where the Lord's leading you tomorrow. Yeah, a 852 00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:19.320 man. So if people wanted to get in touch with you, what's the 853 00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:23.360 website and maybe an email address? Reach out to you. Sure. Yeah, 854 00:53:23.400 --> 00:53:27.909 the the websites. If you just google us, justice ministries, where 855 00:53:27.949 --> 00:53:31.750 you go to wwwe justice ministries dot Org. Okay, we're also on facebook 856 00:53:31.869 --> 00:53:36.750 and instagram and we also have a smartphone APP. So if they in your 857 00:53:36.789 --> 00:53:40.070 APP store, if you just search justice ministries, our logo is a bison, 858 00:53:40.269 --> 00:53:44.059 American Buffalo. Yeah, a lot of people ask us what is that 859 00:53:44.099 --> 00:53:45.780 about and when we pick that just because it was a cool looking mascot. 860 00:53:45.940 --> 00:53:50.980 But but with with Bison, when predators would approach a herd of Bison, 861 00:53:51.340 --> 00:53:54.659 they would kind of form a natural kind of a protective perimeter around the smaller 862 00:53:54.730 --> 00:53:58.889 bi center with one was sick and things like that, to kind of protect 863 00:53:58.929 --> 00:54:01.530 them from from the the wolves or whatever going after them. And and that's 864 00:54:01.530 --> 00:54:05.369 kind of our posture where we're here more than defensive posture, not so much 865 00:54:05.369 --> 00:54:08.329 offensive. The other thing that's kind of interesting is bison in America used to 866 00:54:08.449 --> 00:54:13.239 flourish and run all over the planes and whatnot, and and they almost went 867 00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:15.599 extinct, you know, yeah, because they were kind of, if you 868 00:54:15.679 --> 00:54:17.559 will, oppressed so heavily. But no one looks at a bison and says 869 00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:21.199 wow, what a weak animal, right. So that's again kind of kind 870 00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:23.590 of my message to our our survivors. It's like no one looks at Bison 871 00:54:23.630 --> 00:54:27.590 and says, Oh wow, I mean that's a strong, strong animal. 872 00:54:28.030 --> 00:54:30.949 And and what they went through a hundred years ago and nothing to do with 873 00:54:30.989 --> 00:54:32.429 them. It was just a greed of other other people. Yeah, but 874 00:54:32.469 --> 00:54:36.550 yeah. So, anyways, when you look on the that look us up, 875 00:54:36.550 --> 00:54:38.780 you'll see that little logo. Okay, American, cool. So justice 876 00:54:38.820 --> 00:54:43.780 ministries dot org and they can reach out to you through that. Your email 877 00:54:43.780 --> 00:54:46.099 dress is likely, they're sure, and phone number reach out to. And 878 00:54:46.219 --> 00:54:49.539 then, if you guys who are listening, if you want to donate and 879 00:54:49.539 --> 00:54:53.570 support their ministry, like any nonprofit, they need your support. Maybe your 880 00:54:53.650 --> 00:54:59.849 church has really got a burden for the issue of sex trafficking certainly. I'm 881 00:54:59.889 --> 00:55:02.250 sure you guys would love churches supporting him. Oh, I probably already have, 882 00:55:02.369 --> 00:55:06.210 and that's sometimes our primary support. Yeah, so, yeah, we 883 00:55:06.289 --> 00:55:09.440 we're happy to speak at churches or small groups and happy to set up a 884 00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:13.239 zoom meeting or call with with anybody wants to learn more. I mean, 885 00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:15.239 I get it, I welcome I welcome the questions and we want to be 886 00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:20.679 as straightforward as we can and tell you what we can. That doesn't jeopardize 887 00:55:20.679 --> 00:55:22.510 any security. But yeah, it's a weird thing to market. Yeah, 888 00:55:23.269 --> 00:55:28.349 this counter sex trafficking is a tough thing to advertise. But but yeah, 889 00:55:28.349 --> 00:55:30.510 we certainly appreciate you guys having us and helping us. Hey, thank you 890 00:55:30.590 --> 00:55:34.670 for what you're doing in the collaboration. As we it's just all an effort. 891 00:55:34.750 --> 00:55:37.659 Just just take a stance for life. Yeah, and serve the oppressed 892 00:55:37.780 --> 00:55:40.659 and and again, I love what you are doing and we're happy to partner 893 00:55:40.699 --> 00:55:44.739 with you where we can. Yeah, I appreciate that. Brother, appreciate 894 00:55:44.780 --> 00:55:47.019 your time. I bless you and you guys who are listening. We appreciate 895 00:55:47.099 --> 00:55:51.769 you listening. We just ask you to share this podcast, share it with 896 00:55:51.889 --> 00:55:54.170 friends and family, put it out on social media. Reach out to me, 897 00:55:54.250 --> 00:55:59.889 D parks at cities for lifecom and her V cassie organ cities for Lifecom, 898 00:56:00.329 --> 00:56:04.400 if you have any any questions, and maybe other subjects you want us 899 00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:07.920 to cover. We'd certainly live a cover their subjects. But until next time, 900 00:56:07.960 --> 00:56:20.670 God bless give me our love for love, give me our loft for 901 00:56:20.909 --> 00:56:32.019 gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious. 902 00:56:32.340 --> 00:56:34.699 And some met you