A Mom Who Chooses Life Miscarries, What Do You Do?

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.759 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. Sin Me, 2 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:11.789 Lord, I am yours, I am yours. I'm welcome to the Gospel 3 00:00:11.830 --> 00:00:17.390 Center pre life podcast, a podcast designed to equip, encourage and challenge you 4 00:00:17.510 --> 00:00:21.350 in pro life ministry, and always with a focus on the Gospel. Stay 5 00:00:21.429 --> 00:00:36.530 tuned. I felt show passish, touch your heart, use me. Welcome 6 00:00:36.570 --> 00:00:40.570 to the Gospel Centered Prolife podcast. We appreciate you, guys, joining us. 7 00:00:41.049 --> 00:00:43.729 We're going to cover a subject today, as we kind of just jump 8 00:00:43.810 --> 00:00:48.049 right into the topic here, that if you're at in an abortion center for 9 00:00:48.170 --> 00:00:50.719 any length of time, you know, we've made the promise that God will 10 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:55.119 use you to say babies. You're going to see moms choose life and you're 11 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:58.920 going to have interactions with moms. You're likely going to have situations where you're 12 00:00:58.920 --> 00:01:03.000 following up with a mom that chose life and even mentoring her in some capacity. 13 00:01:03.040 --> 00:01:06.510 Or, you know, maybe you're a mentor you're going to be a 14 00:01:06.590 --> 00:01:10.709 mentor yourself, maybe not necessarily, even on the sidewalk, you're mentoring a 15 00:01:10.750 --> 00:01:15.030 mom that chose life within your church or whatever. This is a situation that 16 00:01:15.629 --> 00:01:19.340 you're likely to encounter at some point. You probably will if you're out there 17 00:01:19.340 --> 00:01:23.060 any length of time. Yeah, and it's a situation where you've had a 18 00:01:23.180 --> 00:01:29.579 mom that has chosen life but then she has a miscarriage. Yeah, like, 19 00:01:29.939 --> 00:01:32.340 how do you handle that? How do you how do you, how 20 00:01:32.379 --> 00:01:36.689 do you process that? MMM, personally for yourself, how do you minister 21 00:01:36.849 --> 00:01:40.890 to her? Right, you know, I'll just cheer. Some years back 22 00:01:41.049 --> 00:01:44.250 there was a situation, this was not a miscarriage. I think this is 23 00:01:44.329 --> 00:01:48.359 along the same lines of this, where we had a mom that chose life 24 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:51.920 and a father and we were ministering to them. I mean this is actually 25 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:55.040 probably been ten years or more, a ghost for even new you, Vicky, 26 00:01:55.239 --> 00:01:59.280 okay, and we ministered this couple, built a relationship with this couple. 27 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:02.629 She ended up having her baby and then a couple of months later the 28 00:02:02.750 --> 00:02:08.550 baby died from SIDS. Wow, had no clue what even happened. Right 29 00:02:08.710 --> 00:02:12.909 came into the room and the baby was was dead. Yeah, it's like, 30 00:02:13.150 --> 00:02:15.139 how do you process that? Yeah, yeah, how do you minister 31 00:02:15.300 --> 00:02:20.780 to them effectively? Heavy subject, guys, it is, but we're going 32 00:02:20.819 --> 00:02:23.939 to talk through some of our experiences. And Yeah, and really from a 33 00:02:23.979 --> 00:02:28.340 Biblical, of course, Gospel centered perspective. Yeah, you can how you 34 00:02:28.379 --> 00:02:30.969 can navigate through this effectively? Right, yeah, it's happened to me many 35 00:02:31.009 --> 00:02:38.129 times. It happened to one of our national missionaries very recently and she texted 36 00:02:38.210 --> 00:02:39.770 me and said, I don't know what to say, I don't know what 37 00:02:39.849 --> 00:02:44.289 to say to her. Can Can you guide me? So that's what kind 38 00:02:44.289 --> 00:02:49.360 of sparked this is that, as in many of these really rough situations, 39 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:53.000 sometimes she just just really there are no words. Yeah, but I think 40 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:58.199 there are principles that that we can pass along so that you're prepared, yeah, 41 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:02.229 for for if that happens, inevitably, whether they voiced it or not, 42 00:03:02.990 --> 00:03:07.069 they have to be questioning God. Yeah, they have to be there. 43 00:03:07.150 --> 00:03:09.789 Well, I mean I think let's acknowledge to that. We ourselves. 44 00:03:09.870 --> 00:03:14.979 We're questioning, yeah, God now, Ye, not questioning his goodness. 45 00:03:15.379 --> 00:03:17.860 Yeah, maybe, I certainly think it's on it. It's good to get 46 00:03:17.979 --> 00:03:22.860 honest before God. Yeah, read the Psalms and you'll see David getting very 47 00:03:23.020 --> 00:03:25.979 honest before God. And so in some sense that gives us an allowance just 48 00:03:27.060 --> 00:03:30.169 to be honest to God, like where are you in the situation? Yeah, 49 00:03:30.090 --> 00:03:32.289 and so I think it's important, of course, for us to get 50 00:03:32.289 --> 00:03:36.729 honest before the Lord, get honest with our feelings so that we can minister 51 00:03:36.810 --> 00:03:42.800 ourselves from a place of experience and relationship to the Lord, so that we 52 00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:45.879 can bring these women into a relationship with the Lord. I will say this 53 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:49.960 even before we get into the meat of this. Some of you guys that 54 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:53.439 are brand new to this ministry, this wasn't even on your radar. Is 55 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:57.590 something that could happen, right, and I think just US bringing this conversation 56 00:03:57.669 --> 00:04:00.870 up is going to be helpful and, yeah, making you aware that this 57 00:04:00.030 --> 00:04:04.389 is something that can happen. Yeah, to have it, as a friend 58 00:04:04.430 --> 00:04:08.710 of mine says, on your preyed are like to be praying, preparing your 59 00:04:08.750 --> 00:04:12.860 heart. Right, it's potentially happening now. Of course we want to just 60 00:04:13.259 --> 00:04:15.819 have faith and trust the Lord and and of course, knowing his goodness that 61 00:04:16.379 --> 00:04:19.980 maybe, maybe, you'll never experience this. I hope that you guys that 62 00:04:20.060 --> 00:04:24.410 are ministering on the sidewalk, the MOMS that you minister to, I hope 63 00:04:24.490 --> 00:04:27.970 that you never experienced this. Yeah, but we do want to prepare you 64 00:04:28.689 --> 00:04:31.569 for if you do experience this. And in the years that we've been involved 65 00:04:31.569 --> 00:04:34.370 in this, we've experienced this a couple of different times. So right. 66 00:04:34.850 --> 00:04:39.120 Yeah. Well, also, even if you don't experience some of that, 67 00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:44.319 actually does miscarrier, the baby dies, at some point that you're working with 68 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:48.079 them, you probably will hear it anyway. Yeah, as an excuse and 69 00:04:48.279 --> 00:04:51.040 a lie. And and that is always in the back of my mind. 70 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:56.110 Are they telling the truth? Did they really miscarry or did they go and 71 00:04:56.230 --> 00:04:59.910 have an abortion and they're ashamed? Yeah, to tell me. Either way, 72 00:04:59.949 --> 00:05:04.990 the response would probably be the same because, at least in the way 73 00:05:05.110 --> 00:05:09.860 that this article that we're going to put out with this podcast is written, 74 00:05:11.339 --> 00:05:15.819 the the intention is for healing and redemption. Yeah, and that would be 75 00:05:15.939 --> 00:05:23.649 true whether they took the life of that child themself or whether that child miscarried 76 00:05:24.649 --> 00:05:29.649 through, you know, an actual miscarriage, or died of some other, 77 00:05:30.410 --> 00:05:33.129 some other reason. And as in all these cases, you know, the 78 00:05:33.329 --> 00:05:38.759 very first step is to grieve with the mother. Yeah, to grieve with 79 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:42.120 the other and it going back to what? What if she's lying? Well, 80 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:46.240 by the fact that you are grieving over the death of that child speaks 81 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:51.750 volumes of what you feel about the sanctity of that child's life. So already 82 00:05:53.389 --> 00:05:58.110 you're paving the way, even if she's lying for the fact that that child 83 00:05:58.189 --> 00:06:03.029 had value and worth and that this is sad. Yeah, I want to 84 00:06:03.980 --> 00:06:08.860 just hone in real quick on what you're talking about because, again, this 85 00:06:09.019 --> 00:06:12.180 may not even be on you guys radar, right, but there are situations 86 00:06:12.339 --> 00:06:15.980 in which a woman that you're in contact with because she chose life on the 87 00:06:15.019 --> 00:06:20.089 sidewalk, you'r mentoring her, following up with her or whatever, and she 88 00:06:20.290 --> 00:06:25.370 says that she's miscarried when, in reality, and we know this from experience, 89 00:06:25.769 --> 00:06:28.810 he actually had the abortion, she went back to the abortion clinic. 90 00:06:28.850 --> 00:06:30.970 Or when she reached out to you and said that she chose life, she 91 00:06:31.089 --> 00:06:35.680 actually had already taken the abortion pill and, you know it, was regretting 92 00:06:35.720 --> 00:06:41.759 it and trying to like hopefully hoping that that that abortion peop wouldn't take effect, 93 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:45.800 and then she ends up miscarrying because of that right. So, anyway, 94 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:48.470 I hope you guys see there's all these kind of intricacies that go on, 95 00:06:48.870 --> 00:06:53.029 things that you need to be aware of and prepared for, but at 96 00:06:53.069 --> 00:06:55.750 the end of the day, you don't know what you don't know. So 97 00:06:55.870 --> 00:07:00.430 if she's telling you that she's miscarried, then minister her to her like that 98 00:07:00.660 --> 00:07:04.300 that's the case, because that's right. Quite possibly that is the case. 99 00:07:04.459 --> 00:07:09.379 Right, right, he's had a miscarriage and so, as the Bible says, 100 00:07:09.660 --> 00:07:12.660 rejoice with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourned. We need 101 00:07:12.740 --> 00:07:16.889 to grieve with that mom. She's lost her baby. Yeah, and one 102 00:07:16.930 --> 00:07:23.170 of the first things that I will often say, with the griefain and the 103 00:07:23.250 --> 00:07:29.370 expression of deep sorrow for her and for that child, at some point in 104 00:07:29.449 --> 00:07:34.959 the beginning conversation I'll often bring up the fact that is it's not on it's 105 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:40.839 not your fault. Yeah, you, you can have the assurance that, 106 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:45.629 even if she's taken the abortion pill, but she has then tried the abortion 107 00:07:45.629 --> 00:07:49.189 pill reversal and in the end the child dies, you tried as hard as 108 00:07:49.230 --> 00:07:54.269 you could to save that child's life and it is while you you may be 109 00:07:54.430 --> 00:08:00.019 intended to take that child's life, and that certainly is is not of God, 110 00:08:00.139 --> 00:08:03.540 that intention, but you backed off from that and and you are not 111 00:08:03.740 --> 00:08:07.980 responsible for that child's death. And you you do you won't carry that burden 112 00:08:09.060 --> 00:08:13.689 on your conscience and and I'm so grateful that you don't have that burden. 113 00:08:13.730 --> 00:08:18.009 Yeah, that you did. You did what you intended to do. Yeah, 114 00:08:18.689 --> 00:08:24.410 the big question in situations like this is why, right, I mean 115 00:08:24.449 --> 00:08:28.720 that's that's where it always goes to for the mom and again even for us. 116 00:08:30.199 --> 00:08:33.559 Yeah, wow, why? We were there at the abortion center. 117 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:37.200 Yep, this mother, right before she was about to go in and intentionally 118 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:39.440 take the life of her baby, chose life. Some of them we've even 119 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:43.070 had. They surrender their life to Jesus. Right. Right. So, 120 00:08:43.269 --> 00:08:48.549 God, why did you allow this? Why did this happen? And I 121 00:08:48.710 --> 00:08:52.909 think we put ourselves in a trap sometimes when we try to answer that question 122 00:08:52.269 --> 00:08:56.139 why, because at the end of the day, we we don't know. 123 00:08:56.700 --> 00:09:01.100 We don't know, and sometimes my answer in those situations to myself, as 124 00:09:01.100 --> 00:09:05.500 I'm asking the question why, sometimes my answer is, well, sometimes life 125 00:09:05.820 --> 00:09:09.850 sucks. Yeah, now, I wouldn't say that necessarily to a mom. 126 00:09:11.970 --> 00:09:15.769 My answer to that question why would be something to the effect of we don't 127 00:09:15.850 --> 00:09:20.529 always know why God allows the things that he allows, right, but we 128 00:09:20.649 --> 00:09:24.960 can trust that God is good. Yeah, God didn't. And here's where 129 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:30.200 we kind of conflate things that just because God allows something, we necessarily think 130 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:33.200 that God causes it. When God, God didn't, calls your baby to 131 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:37.320 die. God didn't cause the miscarriage just as much as if you'd had an 132 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:41.070 abortion. God didn't cause you to have the abortion. Right, there's there's 133 00:09:41.149 --> 00:09:45.909 things that happen and always will. kind of bring it around to the fact 134 00:09:45.909 --> 00:09:48.470 that we live in a fallen world. This is a fallen world. Yeah, 135 00:09:50.269 --> 00:09:54.259 and if you look in the Bible you'll see sort of consistently, I 136 00:09:54.299 --> 00:09:56.580 would say, miscarriage is not viewed as a good thing. That that doesn't 137 00:09:56.659 --> 00:10:00.820 mean that we need to be carefull the way that we communicate that to the 138 00:10:00.899 --> 00:10:03.019 women. We're not saying because of your sin, because that's where some of 139 00:10:03.100 --> 00:10:07.929 them go. Well, I send by going to the abortion center and even 140 00:10:07.970 --> 00:10:11.730 though I turned around, I still still sinned by going there. God's not 141 00:10:11.889 --> 00:10:15.450 punishing you. This kind of idea, almost like of Karma or something that 142 00:10:15.850 --> 00:10:18.370 some, even some believers, put some stock in. That's that's not how 143 00:10:18.490 --> 00:10:22.679 God operates, right. God's not punishing you. Yeah, because of something 144 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:26.720 that you repented of. You you turned away from abortion. Y be punishing 145 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:31.200 you for that. But again, I think it is a grasping for that 146 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:35.039 question. Answer to that question why? And I think we do need to 147 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:37.230 be honest and say, I don't know why. Yeah, and the Bible 148 00:10:37.269 --> 00:10:43.029 doesn't necessarily give us an ABCD answer. Hey, does tell us that God 149 00:10:43.149 --> 00:10:48.070 is good and miscarriage is bad. Hey, therefore God didn't do it. 150 00:10:48.590 --> 00:10:52.860 God wants to come for you in the midst of it, and he can. 151 00:10:52.179 --> 00:10:56.980 And so, thinking through that, then, well, what is the 152 00:10:56.059 --> 00:11:01.019 Biblical Comfort? And I think I go to the story of David and Bath 153 00:11:01.139 --> 00:11:05.570 Sheba, where they they were in sin, they were in an adulterous relationship 154 00:11:05.610 --> 00:11:11.409 in the baby conceived did die. Yeah, and and David had repented of 155 00:11:11.490 --> 00:11:18.370 that sin with Beth Sheba and he certainly petitioned for the child's life in prayer, 156 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:24.039 but the child did die. Yeah, and the comfort in that story. 157 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:31.279 First of all, my motivation in every interaction really with everyone, but 158 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:35.909 especially with with the women we encounter the abortion center, is to bring him 159 00:11:35.909 --> 00:11:41.789 to a saving understanding of Jesus and a submission of a life to Jesus, 160 00:11:43.070 --> 00:11:48.139 and this situation, tragic and horrible and awful as it is, can actually 161 00:11:48.179 --> 00:11:56.580 become a way to bring comfort through the Gospel and help them to understand why 162 00:11:56.620 --> 00:12:00.299 they so desperately need a savior. And one of the things I'll bring up 163 00:12:00.379 --> 00:12:05.610 in the David and Bathsheba story is where David says when the baby dies, 164 00:12:07.049 --> 00:12:09.129 David says, but now he has died. Why should I fask? Can 165 00:12:09.169 --> 00:12:13.769 I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will 166 00:12:13.809 --> 00:12:18.799 not return to to me. And and I point out, he understands that 167 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:26.480 baby's in heaven and he will go to that baby. And that is that 168 00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:31.230 is the great hope for you and comfort for you right now, that you 169 00:12:31.350 --> 00:12:35.789 will see that child again if you have submitted your life to the Lord. 170 00:12:35.830 --> 00:12:39.830 Yeah, and if you will be going to heaven. And can I talk 171 00:12:39.950 --> 00:12:46.220 with you about how that is possible for all of us? Yeah, so 172 00:12:46.379 --> 00:12:50.019 it becomes a wonderful springboard. I think you have to be careful, sure, 173 00:12:50.740 --> 00:12:54.700 at the point at which you introduce that, but most of the women 174 00:12:54.860 --> 00:13:01.490 that I have said that with have found it a comfort and have asked repeatedly, 175 00:13:01.649 --> 00:13:05.570 do you think that baby's really in heaven? We did a PODCAST ABOUT 176 00:13:05.570 --> 00:13:09.250 DO BABIES GO to heaven? Yeah, and I think our conclusion is yes, 177 00:13:09.610 --> 00:13:13.919 we we think that biblically we could support that. Yeah, absolutely so, 178 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:18.440 and I do hear that. I have had actually this has happened to 179 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:22.799 me many times with many of the women, and so I've had a, 180 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:28.909 I guess, a lot of experience in dealing with this. Yeah, so 181 00:13:30.149 --> 00:13:35.230 offering comfort with Biblical truth is always, always valuable. And Yeah, and 182 00:13:35.350 --> 00:13:39.870 I mean word, the word of God is alive and active and sharper than 183 00:13:39.950 --> 00:13:43.460 he two edged sword. It can cut through some of the confusion, it 184 00:13:43.580 --> 00:13:48.620 can cut through some of the why and the lack of the answer to why 185 00:13:48.299 --> 00:13:52.460 and just bring again the knowledge of who God is. And that really is 186 00:13:54.419 --> 00:13:58.009 the central focus of the Bible, even who God is. Who is this 187 00:13:58.250 --> 00:14:03.250 God that in the beginning made the heavens and the earth? Who is this 188 00:14:03.450 --> 00:14:07.049 God? He is a good God and he offers redemption. We yes, 189 00:14:07.129 --> 00:14:11.679 we live in a fallen world and things like miscarriage our result of a fallen 190 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:16.080 world. But God, this God of the Bible, actually came and intervened 191 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:24.000 to save this lost and dying world, to bring redemption M and then, 192 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:28.710 of course, that redemption comes through the Cross and through the resurrection and we 193 00:14:28.789 --> 00:14:31.230 have this eternal hope. And that's what we're getting into when we're talking about 194 00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:39.779 the Gospel. Right, right, and often times in these discussions you'll hear 195 00:14:39.899 --> 00:14:41.700 why, why do God do this? But the other thing that I think 196 00:14:41.779 --> 00:14:52.460 you hear a lot is self incrimination, sure anger at self and and great 197 00:14:52.700 --> 00:15:00.370 sorrow about what they had intended to do. And and so it. I 198 00:15:00.690 --> 00:15:07.080 think again, it's a beautiful opportunity to express the the truth of our sinful 199 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:11.360 nature and that there is a remedy for sin. Yeah, and the Truth 200 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:16.519 and hope of the Gospel painting the picture of one day there will be a 201 00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:20.120 place where that all ends, all the sorrow ends, the tears will and 202 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:24.909 you will be reunited with that child and you will be back in a right 203 00:15:26.029 --> 00:15:31.149 relationship with God. And this is how you can find that. Yeah, 204 00:15:31.190 --> 00:15:33.629 Yep. I think one of the things that we do, and this is 205 00:15:33.750 --> 00:15:39.580 maybe some advice, not just for these situations but just in general, when 206 00:15:39.580 --> 00:15:43.059 you're dealing with people that are grieving, they're going through a tough time and 207 00:15:43.139 --> 00:15:48.860 they've just had a really tough encounter with life, yeah, and a fallen 208 00:15:48.899 --> 00:15:54.889 world. Sometimes we want to in kind of answer the question why M and 209 00:15:54.009 --> 00:15:58.250 we want to try to come up with some reason, try to connect the 210 00:15:58.370 --> 00:16:03.450 dots for people when in reality, going back to that first scripture, rejoice 211 00:16:03.529 --> 00:16:07.279 with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourned. Sometimes we just need 212 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:10.559 to keep our mouth shut. And, yeah, listen, we don't always 213 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:12.399 have to. We don't know the answer. So why would we even try 214 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:15.360 to give the answer to why this happened? Right, right, so we 215 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:19.750 don't know the answer. Let's just keep our mouth shut, let's just comfort, 216 00:16:19.830 --> 00:16:23.149 let's just, yeah, you know, hold them. Yeah, give 217 00:16:23.190 --> 00:16:26.549 him a hug, call them, encourage them, you know, Sam a 218 00:16:26.629 --> 00:16:32.070 note, send them flowers or something like that. Yeah, and not try 219 00:16:32.149 --> 00:16:33.820 to answer a question that we don't know the answer to, but again, 220 00:16:34.019 --> 00:16:38.419 grieve with him, enter into their their grief and to their sorrow, and 221 00:16:38.500 --> 00:16:42.019 then, of course, pray for them. Yeah, pray over them, 222 00:16:42.340 --> 00:16:45.299 pray with them. When you're on the phone, can I pray for you 223 00:16:45.500 --> 00:16:49.570 real quick, you know, and just cover that whole situation in prayer. 224 00:16:51.210 --> 00:16:55.850 God can move in these terrible situations. God can bring a mother who maybe 225 00:16:55.850 --> 00:17:00.210 chose life for her baby but didn't surrender her life to Jesus right, and 226 00:17:00.289 --> 00:17:04.480 then this miscarriage happens. God can really move that situation ultimately to bring that 227 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:08.440 woman to the knowledge of him as savior, kind of like what you talked 228 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:12.720 about sharing that yes, your baby is with the Lord, you can also 229 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:15.509 be with the Lord if you'll surrender your life to him. So, yeah, 230 00:17:15.630 --> 00:17:21.470 God it. God is so awesome and his willingness to redeem any situation 231 00:17:21.630 --> 00:17:23.589 that will put in his hands. But we have to be intentional, as 232 00:17:23.630 --> 00:17:27.549 believers in Jesus, to really put the situation in his hands and not try 233 00:17:27.589 --> 00:17:30.859 to take ownership of it ourselves. Yeah, like somehow again we have to 234 00:17:30.980 --> 00:17:36.740 answer all of the big questions of why and and all of that stright sometimes 235 00:17:36.859 --> 00:17:41.180 in the discussion. We've often talked about that, asking questions as a good 236 00:17:41.619 --> 00:17:47.289 counseling technique and as these people are struggling oftentimes in the discussion, in especially 237 00:17:47.369 --> 00:17:51.730 when they're in that self and recrimination mode, which usually is the case, 238 00:17:51.769 --> 00:17:55.930 they usually are blaming themselves for a period of time. Sometimes they will, 239 00:17:56.329 --> 00:18:02.119 in fact often they will, get to the what brought them there in the 240 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:04.680 first place. Yeah, and almost always had some sort of sexual sin. 241 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:10.680 Yeah, and if they bring that up, I actually usually don't shy away 242 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:18.670 from addressing that, hopefully gently and kindly and with that same, you know, 243 00:18:19.109 --> 00:18:23.950 desire to mourn as they mourn. But I don't want to pass up 244 00:18:23.990 --> 00:18:32.220 an opportunity for life changing revelation. Yeah, and if they're beginning to address 245 00:18:32.420 --> 00:18:36.980 and think what was it? Something that I did not directly that killed the 246 00:18:37.099 --> 00:18:41.849 child, but is there's things leading up to me of her showing up there 247 00:18:41.930 --> 00:18:47.930 in the first place and then really wrestling with the sin of that and again 248 00:18:48.289 --> 00:18:52.250 with the hope of restoration. Yeah, and leading into a Gospel discussion. 249 00:18:52.650 --> 00:18:56.319 So you, I think I really hear what you're saying and totally agree with 250 00:18:56.400 --> 00:19:00.839 it. Sometimes the best course of action truly is just hug them and and 251 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:08.720 and express sorrow mourn with them. Yeah, but don't close your mind to 252 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:14.029 the opportunity that God might be opening doors you are supposed to step through, 253 00:19:14.230 --> 00:19:21.069 absolutely in and that can actually bring ultimately healing, because dealing there are things 254 00:19:21.390 --> 00:19:25.140 that led them to that abortion center in the first place, and most of 255 00:19:25.180 --> 00:19:29.940 the time those are sinful. Yeah, and so this might be the vehicle 256 00:19:30.099 --> 00:19:34.140 by which God is allowing that to be explored. Yeah, yeah, and 257 00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:38.250 that's why, with all of these situations, and I guess I think probably 258 00:19:38.329 --> 00:19:42.970 every time we've dealt with these really deep situations like this and just in general, 259 00:19:44.009 --> 00:19:45.650 we've encourage you guys like you need to be walking with the Lord, 260 00:19:47.490 --> 00:19:52.730 because God can give you wisdom in the midst of one of these very grievous 261 00:19:52.849 --> 00:19:56.880 conversations. Yeah, the mother who's lost her baby by miscarriage. Yeah, 262 00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:00.559 but he can open the door and give you some wisdom to kind of speak 263 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:04.480 into. Like you're talking about confront sin, right, yeah, because we 264 00:20:04.599 --> 00:20:08.269 need to confront sin if we're ever going to listen, if redemption is ever 265 00:20:08.349 --> 00:20:11.430 going to come, there has to be repentance, right, and an acknowledgment 266 00:20:11.470 --> 00:20:15.869 of sin. And you can do it very graciously. You can navigate through 267 00:20:15.950 --> 00:20:22.740 this like, I mean amazingly if you're led by the Holy Spirit. But 268 00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:25.980 of course it can go completely arrive if you're not careful. So I think 269 00:20:26.019 --> 00:20:27.500 we do need to do the best we can to read the situation, to 270 00:20:27.579 --> 00:20:34.970 read the conversation with that mother, to speak encouragement life as much as as 271 00:20:36.049 --> 00:20:38.730 much as possible. Yeah, but then, like you said, to confront 272 00:20:40.130 --> 00:20:42.609 sin, the sin that led them to the abortion center as that door opens, 273 00:20:42.849 --> 00:20:47.289 and to not shy away and to not be afraid of it. Right, 274 00:20:47.329 --> 00:20:51.960 right, if it and yeah, I think he is really be relying 275 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:57.319 on the Holy Spirit, be in the word and be prepared for this sort 276 00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:03.200 of situation, because it will happen. But being gentle and and careful, 277 00:21:03.349 --> 00:21:07.190 because you could, you could do a lot of harm. One I remember 278 00:21:07.309 --> 00:21:14.029 one lady who called me from the ear. That's how I knew she wasn't 279 00:21:14.029 --> 00:21:15.829 lying. She said, I'm in the ear right now. I think I 280 00:21:17.029 --> 00:21:22.059 miss caring. Stayed in touch with me and then when she was discharged hours 281 00:21:22.099 --> 00:21:25.900 later, she was indeed miscarrying and she came right to the sidewalk to me 282 00:21:26.019 --> 00:21:30.819 and and got out of her car and just sobbing her eyes out. I 283 00:21:32.220 --> 00:21:33.890 lost the baby. All these things we've talked about. Why? Why? 284 00:21:33.970 --> 00:21:38.009 Why? I was doing everything, I wanted to do everything right now. 285 00:21:38.049 --> 00:21:45.490 Why would got allow this? So me and the other counselor that had worked 286 00:21:45.529 --> 00:21:48.960 with her, we comforted her as best we could. She she went home 287 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:52.559 and that counselor and I actually got together. I think it was the other 288 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:57.400 councilor's ideas, such a good idea. We got her a memorial bracelet. 289 00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:02.990 They make these things on the Internet with with little feed little hands, I 290 00:22:03.069 --> 00:22:04.990 think, even if you've named the child, but whatever, they're made for 291 00:22:06.269 --> 00:22:11.549 people who have miscarried and we got her that bracelet and we presented it to 292 00:22:11.589 --> 00:22:15.660 her, I don't know, very shortly thereafter came right away. I think 293 00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:23.140 we got it from Amazon, and she was very touched. But also a 294 00:22:23.299 --> 00:22:27.099 few months later, she maybe it was even a year later, she was 295 00:22:27.259 --> 00:22:32.970 pregnant again and she came back to the abortion center, but not for an 296 00:22:32.970 --> 00:22:37.569 abortion, to say I will not even consider abortion with this child. And 297 00:22:37.769 --> 00:22:44.130 she trusted us and she knew that we cared and had her best interest in 298 00:22:44.210 --> 00:22:48.480 heart because of that little act of kindness. Yeah, and so you know, 299 00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:53.839 it was paving the way for I can't remember if she was still in 300 00:22:55.079 --> 00:22:57.200 sin or if she was married at that point or what. I honestly don't 301 00:22:57.319 --> 00:23:03.829 remember, but at least abortion was off the table with with that next child. 302 00:23:03.029 --> 00:23:10.869 So God can use and will use terrible things for his purposes and and 303 00:23:11.109 --> 00:23:15.059 for good, and he did in that situation. Yeah. So, you 304 00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:18.259 know, bringing the hope of God into the situation is kind of the bottom 305 00:23:18.299 --> 00:23:22.940 line in absolutely when, whenever you can, and he will always make a 306 00:23:23.019 --> 00:23:26.690 way for you to be able to do that. Yeah, yeah, and 307 00:23:27.049 --> 00:23:30.809 that is the goal, right. The goal was not, again, just 308 00:23:30.009 --> 00:23:36.250 answer the question why, because we don't know why. The goal is to 309 00:23:36.410 --> 00:23:40.450 bring the hope of the Gospel, the hope of who God is into that 310 00:23:40.609 --> 00:23:47.559 situation. We are not the savior of this mom right, we're not going 311 00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:51.000 to fix her situation, we're not going to answer all her questions. M 312 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:56.069 The best we can do is point her to the God who is her savior. 313 00:23:56.589 --> 00:24:00.069 She'll put her trust in him, who does have the answers, to 314 00:24:00.230 --> 00:24:03.589 point her to a relationship. And we all know that in our lives there 315 00:24:03.630 --> 00:24:07.349 are things that we encounter. Some of you maybe that are listening, you're 316 00:24:07.430 --> 00:24:10.819 on the sidewalk and you've had miscarriages, and we and our family had a 317 00:24:10.900 --> 00:24:15.500 miscarriage and it was a very, very difficult situation to deal with. Yeah, 318 00:24:15.339 --> 00:24:18.980 and we ask the questions why. But what do we do? We 319 00:24:18.059 --> 00:24:22.619 learn to cling to Jesus more closely. Right, and if we can teach 320 00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:27.569 these women, we can point them, disciple them, mentor them into clinging 321 00:24:27.730 --> 00:24:32.410 tightly to Jesus, then we've done what we're called to do. Yeah, 322 00:24:32.529 --> 00:24:36.170 we're not called to answer all the questions and we're not called to calm all 323 00:24:36.210 --> 00:24:41.160 the storms. We're not called to be the redeemer ourselves, right, but 324 00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:45.000 to point them to the one who is the redeemer, the Lord Jesus. 325 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.839 Now, yeah, there are things out there. I'm nothing really is popping 326 00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:51.720 up in my mind right now as far as literature and things like that, 327 00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:56.670 but there are certainly websites and their ministries. They're involved in healing after miscarriages 328 00:24:56.710 --> 00:25:00.910 and things like that. Maybe if we can dig for some of those resources. 329 00:25:00.029 --> 00:25:03.789 I know of some, but I just can't think of the particular names 330 00:25:03.869 --> 00:25:06.710 on top of my head. Yeah, we'll try to put those in the 331 00:25:06.789 --> 00:25:11.500 show notes on the podcast. Certainly you guys can can google that and find 332 00:25:11.539 --> 00:25:14.700 some ministries you can point these women to that maybe can get more in depth. 333 00:25:15.259 --> 00:25:18.099 I'm sure there's some healing Bible studies and things that are out there right 334 00:25:18.339 --> 00:25:22.130 they can help, but at the end of the day, again, it's 335 00:25:22.250 --> 00:25:26.250 pointing them to the redeemer, to the Savior, to the Lord Jesus, 336 00:25:26.690 --> 00:25:32.690 and discipling them mentoring them in that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I 337 00:25:32.890 --> 00:25:36.519 know when I was a new counselor and and I faced this. I've faced 338 00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:40.680 this, I guess, more times than maybe most people, but I remember 339 00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:45.839 feeling well, these MOMS are properly relieved. They were coming to kill their 340 00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:49.910 baby. I'll bet they're relieved that they are miscarrying. But that is not 341 00:25:51.630 --> 00:25:56.430 the case. They in fact may feel more grief. Yeah, because they 342 00:25:56.470 --> 00:26:00.990 were so close to take in that chiuse life themselves and they have now, 343 00:26:02.750 --> 00:26:07.619 you know, doubled down in their maternal instincts following that, and it it 344 00:26:07.140 --> 00:26:11.380 so, it it's in many ways, you would treat them as you would 345 00:26:11.420 --> 00:26:17.579 treat anyone who it's struggling with having miscarried a baby. Yeah, yeah, 346 00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:23.329 absolutely. And another thing that I would try to get them to is get 347 00:26:23.410 --> 00:26:29.210 them to get plugged into a local church. Give them to you, because 348 00:26:29.210 --> 00:26:32.529 they need a body of believers. Invite them to your church. If you're 349 00:26:32.609 --> 00:26:37.000 able to do that, maybe maybe they have a mentor, if you're part 350 00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:40.880 of love life and you got them connected to a mentor, that mentor would 351 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:45.000 invite them. I mean just the fact that they are no longer going to 352 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:47.509 have a baby and we aren't going to do a baby shower and that sort 353 00:26:47.549 --> 00:26:51.630 of thing doesn't mean we drop them as a mentor. Right. We want 354 00:26:51.670 --> 00:26:55.509 to invite them to church when to surround them the love of the local church, 355 00:26:56.269 --> 00:26:59.990 and so just being intentional about that. Be Intentional because I know for 356 00:27:00.109 --> 00:27:03.299 us, when we encounter situations specially, and I think that's why this podcast 357 00:27:03.339 --> 00:27:07.619 is important especially situation that we didn't really account for. We don't know how 358 00:27:07.660 --> 00:27:11.460 to respond and we just kind of shut down ourselves. Right, I don't 359 00:27:11.500 --> 00:27:14.380 how to respond to this woman. I don't know how. I mean, 360 00:27:14.420 --> 00:27:15.329 I thought she was going to be having a baby. I thought we were 361 00:27:15.329 --> 00:27:18.170 going to do a baby shower. We yeah, yeah, you're excited about 362 00:27:18.210 --> 00:27:22.410 this, and now this is not going to happen. I'm an awkward situation. 363 00:27:22.569 --> 00:27:26.049 I don't know how to answer all the questions. Be Intentional about reaching 364 00:27:26.089 --> 00:27:29.210 out. Yeah, be intentional about inviting her to church, surrounding her. 365 00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:33.559 The conversations don't always have to be around the miscarriage. It don't always have 366 00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:38.440 to be around the relationship and light of her having a baby, like minister 367 00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:42.960 to her as a woman who needs the Lord, who needs encouragement and all 368 00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:47.829 of that stuff. Invite her to Bible Studies and Church events and that sort 369 00:27:47.869 --> 00:27:49.509 of thing, and just surround her, because one of the things that can 370 00:27:49.509 --> 00:27:53.990 happen in these situations is people can isolate themselves. Hey, and that's really 371 00:27:55.069 --> 00:27:59.859 where the devil gets in and brings all this confusion in chaos. Yeah, 372 00:28:00.099 --> 00:28:03.819 so, yes, I mean intentional about inviting them and reaching out to them 373 00:28:03.019 --> 00:28:07.299 and not again, not trying to answer all their questions while but just bringing 374 00:28:07.299 --> 00:28:10.819 them to the saviors important. Yeah, I think a few weeks ago we 375 00:28:10.980 --> 00:28:15.450 talked about the mom of twins who the twins came prematurely and they both died. 376 00:28:15.009 --> 00:28:19.769 And what happened to her in the immediate aftermath is the danger. She 377 00:28:21.289 --> 00:28:27.759 spiraled really down. Yeah, really down, fullblown rebellion and sorrow, rebellion 378 00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:33.200 from God, questioning God's sorrow and despair, and did some really bad things 379 00:28:34.119 --> 00:28:40.240 and and came out of it that. She did stay in touch with us, 380 00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:44.630 fortunately, and so there was contact with her, pointing her back to 381 00:28:44.750 --> 00:28:48.430 God pretty continually and about two years later had really come full circle. Her 382 00:28:48.549 --> 00:28:53.470 life was restored, she's marriage is a new baby now and now she looks 383 00:28:53.509 --> 00:28:57.900 back at that time period and the amazing thing is in the midst of that 384 00:28:59.220 --> 00:29:03.779 terrible situation she actually sees the hand of God and she sees where he rescued 385 00:29:03.819 --> 00:29:10.170 her and where he really had lovingly never let go of her. She had 386 00:29:10.210 --> 00:29:15.250 run from him. Yeah, so remembering that, that, that is what 387 00:29:15.450 --> 00:29:21.170 every person that we interact with needs, is is to someone to be there 388 00:29:21.890 --> 00:29:26.240 if they spiral down or not. Any way, anyway about it, someone 389 00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:30.079 to be there constantly bringing them back to the truth of who God is and 390 00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:34.319 that he does love them, despite sometimes when it doesn't feel like it. 391 00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:38.670 Yeah, Amen, Amen. Well, we hope this was a blessing you, 392 00:29:38.750 --> 00:29:41.549 guys. We hope that you were. I mean, this is not 393 00:29:41.829 --> 00:29:47.509 necessarily the most encouraging subject, but certainly to be a are of something that 394 00:29:47.630 --> 00:29:51.950 you might encounter can be an encouragement. Have Your Heart in your mind prepared 395 00:29:52.029 --> 00:29:56.299 for that and if you do encounter with these situations, hopefully you've been equipped 396 00:29:56.339 --> 00:30:00.339 to deal with that situation. We'd certainly be more than willing to answer any 397 00:30:00.380 --> 00:30:03.180 questions that you have along the lines of this podcast episode or other episodes that 398 00:30:03.220 --> 00:30:06.619 we've done. You could reach out to us. Reach out to me, 399 00:30:06.700 --> 00:30:10.289 Daniel Love Life Dot Org. You reach out to Vicky, Vicky at Love 400 00:30:10.369 --> 00:30:15.809 Life Dot Org. If you have suggestions of future episodes for PODCASTS, we'd 401 00:30:15.849 --> 00:30:18.049 love to hear what those suggestions are. We love to cover those subjects if 402 00:30:18.049 --> 00:30:22.519 we're able, and so please reach out to us. Please, ruse, 403 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.240 leave us a review if you're willing to do that would be a blessing to 404 00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:34.119 us. But until next time, God bless God, bless give me our 405 00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:47.630 love for love. Give me our love for gratitude. I know it will 406 00:30:47.789 --> 00:30:56.259 cost me my life. Nothing's too precious in some you